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#251 Mike Summers

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:15

Jerry, in your wet weather pic from Willow Springs, is that Frank Monise in his Lotus 23 right behind you??

Mike

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#252 Jerry Entin

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 15:28

Posted Image
Jerry Entin in 1967 at Tuscon
I was late getting to Tuscon and had to start last. This was the first time I ever ran this car, or for that matter ever practiced in it.

ERault: I had 3 McLarens. The first one was the one now owned by Harry Mathews and originally owned by John Coombs, the next one was the Lucy owned car. After that I bought the ex Revson driven Mk2 off Carl Haas. I never had a Mk3 or as they call them 1C.

Tracy Bird wrote the article on the race at Tuscon and It was my Mk 2 or 1B as some call them.

After that I bought a Lola T-70.

Mike: That is Bill Mollee behind me and not Frank Monise.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 30 December 2009 - 15:35.


#253 ERault

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 16:05

Thank you Jerry for the quick confirmation of what I was suspecting. Do you, by any chance, have recollection of who you sold your 3 McLarens to when you were done with them ?


#254 Jerry Entin

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 16:14

Posted Image
My McLaren Mk 1 as it looked when Harry Mathews recieved it from Dick McGovern
When I first got the car it was a dull gray, It was used in an Elvis movie called Spinout and they painted it Bright Gold. After the movie I painted it a light metallic blue. Dick McGovern painted it yellow with a blue stripe. Harry Mathews put it back to the Gold it was in the Elvis movie.

ERault: This may bore some people.

I sold my McLaren Mk 1 that I purchased from John Coombs to a fellow named Dick Hocking, he bought it less the Olds engine. The gearbox I gave him with it was a ZF that was better then the HD Hewland it had come with.

He put a Chevy in it and I sold the F-85 Olds engine to Marvin Webster of the Mill Valley area. After Dick Hocking was through with it, Dick McGovern of San Jose, California purchased it. He ran it in club races with a 350 LT chevy crate motor that cost around $600. He is the one who sold it to Harry Mathews of the Denver , Colorado area

Edited by Jerry Entin, 30 December 2009 - 16:48.


#255 RA Historian

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 17:57

ERault: This may bore some people.

Jerry, never! You and your trove of information are a constant joy to read and from which to learn. I think that all of us appreciate your posts.

Re the Olds F-85 motor that you sold to Webster. Was that then used in the Webster Four Liter?

I recall the Mk II, (M1B), as being light metallic blue in color when you ran it in the 1967 Road America 500 with Sam Posey. I believe that you were running third or so late in the race when Bud Morley got in the car and broke something or other.

Tom

#256 Jerry Entin

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 20:14

Tom:
The color of the car Sam Posey and I ran was called Nassau Blue, a stock 1967 Corvette color. The Mark 1 was painted more like the Blue used on the Scarabs only lighter.

And yes Marvin Webster used the Olds in his Webster Special.

You are right about Bud Morley running the car off course and putting rocks through the radiator. We couldn't run anymore laps and were dropped to 6th. Sam Posey did a beautiful job of co-driving. A friend of mine Ralph Salyer dropped out of the race. We were going to put in fuel 5 gallons at a time. Ralph loaned us his professional refueling rig. Manning it were Bob McKee and Gene Crowe, how was that for a refueling crew.

Harvey Lasiter was the mechanic on the car, with me and Sam Posey chipping in. My first time ever at Road America.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 26 January 2010 - 04:00.


#257 ERault

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 16:37

How about the M1B and M1C in 1967 ? First of all, two disclaimers.

1) The M1B and M1C looked very much the same. The main difference is the rear bonnet, with a new adjustable wing and different air intakes. However the new wing was promptly reproduced by some on their M1B, when it was not the whole M1C bonnet that was put on a M1B chassis.
Another clue to sort the cars seems to be on the M1C a new air extractor just behind the top of the front wings. Sadly, few photos offer the right angle to check this.
2) My Competition Press set runs out mid-1967, so I am at dark on the US SCCA national and regional racing at this point ( I don't have the Road America june sprints and beyond).

However, foolish as I am, this did not prevent me to give it a try. There is what I gathered :

1966 M1B still racing in 1967 :
30-01 – Hayes in 1966 – Alderman & Lunger in 1967
30-03 – Motschenbacher in 1966 – retained for 1967 USRRC, then Herrera (seen at the Riverside CanAm)
30-05 - Morley in 1966 – retained in 1967
30-12 – Drummond Racing in 1966 – Skip Barber in 1967 (then Koveleski at ARRC)
XX the other Drummond Racing car – Entin in 1967 after his two M1As
XX the O'Keiff car – retained in 1967
XX the Amick car – retained in 1967 until new M1C fot the end of the season
XX the Heimrath car – retained in 1967
XX the Cannon car – retained in 1967*
XX the Parsons car – retained in 1967 (Hilton quit at the end of 1966, Parsons kept the car)
XX the Dick Brown car (Ecurie Green) - retained in 1967
XX the Doran car - retained in 1967
XX the Pacesetter car – Jay Hills in 1967
XX the Posey car – retained (Autodynamics) for 1967
XX the Lerch car – Lerch ran an unknown McLaren at the june 1967 Watkins Glen USRRC, presumably the same car ?

* it is apparently well accepted than Cannon used his 1966 M1B until 1969. His 1968 Laguna Seca winning car is often described as a 3 years old warhorse. Photos of this event shows a M1C rear bonnet, but it could still be the M1B "in disguise". However, in the middle of the not so tidy patchwork here http://www.imca-slot.../CANAM-1967.htm there is a very puzzling photo showing a red number 33 McLaren with "John Cannon" on the door. The car looks brand new, has a M1C bonnet AND the air extractors ! It looks like a proper M1C, but I guess maybe the M1B could have got a new rear bonnet AND a new front one.



new drivers in 1967 with unknown M1B (with first known appearance) :
Courtney - 25 june Watkins Glen USSRC*
Troberg – 30 april Knutstorp (then sold to Gunnarsson)
Kent Price, with an "ex-Charlie Cox" M1B – 16 avril – Cotati**
da Mota – 21 may Bridgehempton USRRC***

* in a report for Courtney's win in the may 14 Willmot regional with his M1A, it is said he had a M1B on the way for Elkhart Lake. I don't know if he managed to have it in time for the June Sprints, but he did ran a M1B the following week at Watkins Glen.

** that is a M1B I missed when looking at 1966 (I left Cox with a King Cobra in 1965). Post 15 in this thread http://forums.autosp...showtopic=95603 would have give a clue, but the photo disappeared ! Jerry, maybe you could repost it ?

*** we first met da Mota at the 1966 Nassau Speed Week. I do not know if he had a M1A or a M1B at this event. In 1967 at Bridgehampton, he raced a grey M1B.



1966 M1B of unknown fate by 1967 :
30-09 – Radio London car in 1966 – probably still in uk in 1967 (was there with Bob Rose the following year)
XX the Starkey car - not seen in 1967 but presumably the car Starkey converted to F5000 spec in 1968
XX the Roe car - unknown in 1967
XX the Alan Brown car - unknown in 1967 (could be a candidate for the car sold to Troberg ?)
XX the Fuller car - unknown in 1967
XX the Hayes car for Earl Jones - unknown in 1967
XX the Bill Haenelt car - for sale in april 67
XX the Koveleski ARRC car*
+ maybe the Prophet M1B ? I assume Prophet had an M1B in 1966, but I have no confirmation. Perhaps he only had his M1A 20-13.

* when looking at the 1966 season, I was not sure if it was a M1A or M1B. I have since seen a photo from the 1966 American Road Race of Champions at Riverside confirming it as a M1B (I still dont't know for sure what the engine was, but a Chevy is the safe bet)



M1C seen racing in 1967 with first known appearance :
40-03 – Drummond Racing - 23 april Las Vegas*
40-04 - Drummond Racing – 23 april Las Vegas*
40-06 – Haas for Gregory then Parsons - 23 april Las Vegas
40-11 – Carl Haas ?**
40-18 – Hansen - 28 may Willmot
Dana car 1 for Revson - 23 april Las Vegas
Dana car 2 for Bondurant - 23 april Las Vegas
Cordts – 11 june St Jovite
Morin – 25 june Watkins Glen USSRC
Eaton – 23 sept Mosport CanAm
Amick – 1 oct Westwood
Crawford – Daytona ARRC

* Drummond had two Ford-engined M1C for Skip Scott for the USRRC season. David McKinney in post 49 said 40-03 was a Drummond car. 40-04 was a plausible but not proven quote from the web.

** David McKinney in post 49 has this car with Carl Haas. The M1C raced for Haas by Gregory then Parsons if often quoted as 40-06. Perharps 40-11 was a remplacement car for this one ? Or perhaps Haas only had 40-11 before selling it to a customer ?


unknown cars racing in 1967 :
Wester – Laguna USRRC*
G. Hobbs – 20 aug Mid-Ohio USRRC
G. Wilson –20 aug Mid-Ohio USRRC
Dave Causey - 23 sept Mosport CanAm**
Aylward***
Jim Paul – Riverside CanAm
Rodrigo – Bogota 22 aug****


* Don Wester was a DNS at the Laguna Seca USRRC race with a McLaren-Ford. Ford engined cars were very scarce by this time. A good bet could be the second Drummond car, lent to local driver Wester for his home event ?

***Dave Causey was a DNS at the Mosport CanAm. His car is often quoted as a M1C. However, according to the WSRP website, Causey had M1B 30-23 at some point, presumably before he bought M6A/1 for the 1970 season. So maybe this is the car.

*** Aylward raced an unkown McLaren in 1966. He still raced a McLaren in 1967, and I still failed to find a photo. The only clue I have is from the Competition Press report of the march 5, 1967 Mansfield SCCA race where the car is described as a Mk II (so M1B to me). But CP did not always get it right, so I leave it here for now.

**** Apparently, a driver named Rodrigo ran a McLaren at the 1967 6 Horas de Bogota. South America is still full of surprises and need some work. For instance the ex-Penske Zerex Special was in Venezuela by that time and venezulian Winston Chebly had a M1C for the 1968 season (against three Lola T70s at some point, but that is another matter....)


So, we have no more than 12 confirmed M1C spotted in 1967. Hansen's car is quoted as 40-18, and it seems plausible 18 were built if we add the confirmed cars, some of the mystery cars and 2 or 3 cars I have probably missed in SCCA regional. But once again I find difficult to go as far as the official number of 25 cars built.







#258 Allen Brown

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 16:49

Great work ERault!

#259 T54

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 19:00

Bored? This is a FABULOUS thread and please keep it going.
Many thanks especially to Jerry Entin who always comes up with such great and accurate information.
Happy New Year to all here.

T54

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#260 RA Historian

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 19:25

***Dave Causey was a DNS at the Mosport CanAm. His car is often quoted as a M1C. However, according to the WSRP website, Causey had M1B 30-23 at some point, presumably before he bought M6A/1 for the 1970 season. So maybe this is the car.

The Dave Causey car was an M1B. I saw this car run in 1968, including a win at the Blackhawk Farms SCCA National in August, and it was a 'B', or McLaren Elva Mk II, as they were sold and called this side of the pond.
Tom

#261 RA Historian

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 19:33

new drivers in 1967 with unknown M1B (with first known appearance) :
Courtney - 25 june Watkins Glen USSRC*
Troberg – 30 april Knutstorp (then sold to Gunnarsson)
Kent Price, with an "ex-Charlie Cox" M1B – 16 avril – Cotati**
da Mota – 21 may Bridgehempton USRRC***

* in a report for Courtney's win in the may 14 Willmot regional with his M1A, it is said he had a M1B on the way for Elkhart Lake. I don't know if he managed to have it in time for the June Sprints, but he did ran a M1B the following week at Watkins Glen.

** that is a M1B I missed when looking at 1966 (I left Cox with a King Cobra in 1965). Post 15 in this thread http://forums.autosp...showtopic=95603 would have give a clue, but the photo disappeared ! Jerry, maybe you could repost it ?

Ron Courtney did run his M1B at the 1967 June Sprints. Witnessed and photographed by me.

The Charlie Cox McLaren M1B was supposedly destroyed in a fiery crash in the 1966 June Sprints. He was in the lead, and had set fast lap, when he had a 'big one' at corner 12. Car was supposedly burnt out. I was at this race and saw the car run and photographed it, but did not see the car after the crash. It supposedly was scrapped, so I cannot address the legitimacy of the Kent Price reference.
Tom

#262 Catalina Park

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 08:34

I know it is not the real thing but it is from the 60s and I thought that this may belong in this thread...

Posted Image

Posted Image

I have had it in a box in my wardrobe for about 25 years.

#263 ERault

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 15:12

In 1967, as I wrote here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=121451, a serie of four races called Campeonato Bolivariano was held in Peru, Columbia, Ecuador and Venezuela.

A peruvian team ran two McLaren M1As, one with a Ford engine, the other with a Chevy. The two cars can be seen together at the start of the 6 Horas de Lima (july 9, 1967) on Jerry Pantis' Porsche 904, 906 & 910 in the Americas, page 341. The cars wore peruvian colors, that is red with a white longitudinal stripe. On one of the cars that stripe was very wide.

One of the M1A was driven by Eduardo Rodrigo. He won the 6 Horas de Bogota on august 22. The other may have been for a Uldrarico Ossio. Jerry Entin was kind enough to tell me he sold the M1A he had bought from Joe Lucy to someone called Rodrigo in South America, in exchange for a Lotus Elan and some cash. I don't kown about the second M1A.

You will find here 2 pictures of the tatty looking McLarens :
http://server4.foros...orum=muchasrpms




#264 horizon

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 16:33

GREAT tread........
In doing Reserch on a M8c , I have spoken to Jim Butcher. He raced Can am from 1969 to 74.

Quote: Purchased McLaren Mk 1 From Orly Thornsjo of Minneapolis. Former Augie Pabst car. Competed in SCCA races. Sold to individual in Boston"

Mr. Butcher is unable to supply any Chassis numbers.

Horizon

#265 RA Historian

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 17:36

GREAT tread........
In doing Reserch on a M8c , I have spoken to Jim Butcher. He raced Can am from 1969 to 74.

Quote: Purchased McLaren Mk 1 From Orly Thornsjo of Minneapolis. Former Augie Pabst car. Competed in SCCA races. Sold to individual in Boston"

Hmmmm... Orly Thornsjo raced a McLaren M1B in 1969. Red in color. Only M1 series McLaren that he ran, to the best of my knowledge. Former Augie Pabst car?? I don't think so. Pabst only had one McLaren and that was a M1A. As has been shown on other threads here, that car was destroyed in a fire at Mosport in Sept. 1965. The remains were in the possession of Bill Schley until the mid 1990s. The car never raced again, in any form.

I suspect that Butcher may be a bit mistaken as to the identity of the McLaren M1B before Thornsjo.

Tom

#266 Giraffe

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 17:11

M1C - 40-12 was offered for sale for sale yesterday at the Coys Auction at the Autosport International Racing Car Show at the NEC, Birmingham. The sales brochure says it came from Chuck Haines and Tom Fredericks via Ian Webb of Northdown Racing to Nick Mason for whom John Dabbs prepared it, before being sold to Peter Kaus for a 21 year sojourn in his Rosso Bianco Museum.

Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2010-01-17

Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2010-01-17

#267 RA Historian

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 17:30

RE the above McLaren at auction. Whose was it and who drove it "back in the day".

(Sorry about the cliche. Immediately copy and paste on "Blood Pressure" thread )

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 17 January 2010 - 17:31.


#268 Giraffe

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 17:41

RE the above McLaren at auction. Whose was it and who drove it "back in the day".

(Sorry about the cliche. Immediately copy and paste on "Blood Pressure" thread )

Tom


Don't know Tom. The The catalogue says it is understood to have been an original American market car and arrived in a matte "Boxcar red" livery with an M6B -like nose and engineless when acquired from Haines.

#269 RA Historian

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 17:58

Don't know Tom. The The catalogue says it is understood to have been an original American market car and arrived in a matte "Boxcar red" livery with an M6B -like nose and engineless when acquired from Haines.

Thanks for the reply. I may be a bit cynical, but I always get a little suspicious when a car is displayed with little information provided as to its history. My quizzical nature always suspects that maybe there is no history... I have always felt that if a car is legit (or claimed to be legit!) that a history should be provided with the car's complete background including who drove it where and when.

It always annoys me and makes me suspicious when a placard or an ad listing a car for sale says something to the effect, "distinguished racing background", "great history", and the like but then never lists what that history is. :well:

This car may very well be alright, but when full disclosure is not made, questions are raised.

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 17 January 2010 - 18:01.


#270 Alan Cox

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 19:31

Thanks for the reply. I may be a bit cynical, but I always get a little suspicious when a car is displayed with little information provided as to its history. My quizzical nature always suspects that maybe there is no history... I have always felt that if a car is legit (or claimed to be legit!) that a history should be provided with the car's complete background including who drove it where and when.

I would tend to agree with your view, Tom. Here is the catalogue entry
http://www.coys.co.u...c...97&id=57981
I'm not sure of the relevance of including period photos of Chuck Parsons and Skip Scott within the catalogue entry. Are the auctioneers hoping that some 'stardust' will rub off?

The car belonged (or still belongs) to TNFer yesteryearracing and he posted this on the McLaren M1s thread

I do own a McLaren M1C 40-12.

In the early eighties this car was sold through Chris Drake collector cars to The Rosso Bianco museum of Peter Kauss.
I do have a copy of the invoice.Subsequently the car was imported into Germany.There it stayed until the museum was
acquired by Evert Louwman ( incl. this M1C) in 2006-2007
In 2007 I bought the car from him and drove the M1C at the Nurburgring Modena Trackdays in june 2009.

So from the early eighties the history is known.
Does anybody knows something about its early history???????Owners,colorscheme, races,specs.
Appreciate all the info.
Pieter Boel



#271 Nordic

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 19:48

Northdown

Did Northdown have more than 1 McLaren, this one entered by them appeared at the british GP in 81 and its not red?

#272 ERault

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 12:25

New drivers seen in M1A in 1966 :
Cordts (owner Dave Billes), with Chinook bodywork at the end of the season


Just a little update on this one : apparently Bonhams offered in 2006 McLaren M1A chassis 20-10 describing it as the ex-George Wintersteen / John Cordts car.

#273 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:51

Just a little update on this one : apparently Bonhams offered in 2006 McLaren M1A chassis 20-10 describing it as the ex-George Wintersteen / John Cordts car.


Photo link here:

http://www.racingspo...5-09-19-012.jpg

Vince H.


#274 ERault

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:54

Photo link here:

http://www.racingspo...5-09-19-012.jpg

Vince H.


And here it is, from the same website, with Cordts in 1966 :

http://www.racingspo...6-07-10-057.jpg

Cordts upgrated to a M1C by mid-1967. Maybe Bonhams' catalogue from the 2006 sale has clues on the fate of the M1A at the time.

#275 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:44

Cordts upgrated to a M1C by mid-1967. Maybe Bonhams' catalogue from the 2006 sale has clues on the fate of the M1A at the time.


Looks to me like John Cordt carrying part of the car in the photo. Would you like me to phone John Cordts and ask him what happened to the car at the time?

The following link appears to be for Lot 218 at the 2006 Bonhams' sale:

http://www.landrover...-id/1768042385/

Vince H.




#276 Allen Brown

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 10:09

Would you like me to phone John Cordts and ask him what happened to the car at the time?


Vince, could you ask him something for me too? In 1970, Cordts drove a 2.7-litre Brabham-Climax in Canadian Formula A. The car appears to have come from Jack Smith in England but then seems to have returned to Smith after 1970 or maybe after 1971. Smith was killed in the car in 1972 at Snetterton.

Does John remember this deal? Does he remember if the car returned to England after he drove it? Was it only a loan from Smith?


#277 ERault

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:33

Looks to me like John Cordt carrying part of the car in the photo. Would you like me to phone John Cordts and ask him what happened to the car at the time?

The following link appears to be for Lot 218 at the 2006 Bonhams' sale:

http://www.landrover...-id/1768042385/

Vince H.


Vince, you made my day ! If that is not too much trouble, I would indeed be delighted if you could contact John Cordts about his McLarens.
It now seems clear that he bought Wintersteen's M1A. Maybe he remembers who raced it after him ?
For 1967, Cordts had a green M1C. I don't know the chassis number but I reckon he bought it new and was still racing it in 1968. I don't know what happens to the car at the end of the 1968 season.


#278 ERault

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 20:18

And now for 1968. Beware I fear I have missed all the cars that did not venture into USRRC or CanAm, as I have no acces to SCCA National or Regional coverage.


M1A seen racing in 1968
20-01 with Dick Hocking (seen notably at the Pacific Raceways USRRC)
20-09 with Doug Hooper (seen notably at the Riverside USRRC)
20-13 with Olthoff in South Africa
the Dave Wolin car – Wolin write on his site he had bought a wrecked M1A from Da Mota. See here
http://www.davewolin.com/chinook.htm I have not managed to find entries for Wolin in this car yet.
the Gary Torbenson car – spotted thanks to Rudow's great book "Weekends of Glory" (history of racing in the pacific northwest) which has a photo of Torbenson racing his M1A at Shelton Airport on august 11.

M1B seen racing in 1968
30-01 still with Alderman and Lunger
30-03 still with Ron Herrera
30-05 still with Bud Morley, modified to F5000 configuration
30-23 still with Dave Causey
Cannon's car – presumably still the same car according to various reports, but in total M1C look (rear bonnet, as several others M1B, but also air vents on front wings)
Heimrath's car – still his M1B in M1C guise. for sale in CP nov 2, 1968 issue
Jim Paul's car – was in the unknown section when I looked at 1967. For 1968, I have picture showing a M1B for sure at Laguna USRRC, and another one from the Riverside CanAm showing what I think is still the same car but with a M1C rear bonnet and a custom front.
Spencer Stoddard's car – raced in the northwest, seen in Rudow's book
the ex-Pacesetter car still with Jay Hills
Bill Howell's car – blue M1B at the Bridgehampton USRRC
Eaton's car – white M1B at the Riverside CanAm*
the ex-Drummond ex-Entin car now with Bob West. Seen in several entry lists but I have no actual results. (thanks Jerry)

M1C
40-03 – Drummond Racing in 1967 – one of the Drummond car went to Janke for 1968
40-04 - Drummond Racing in 1967 - one of the Drummond car went to Janke for 1968
40-06 – Haas in 1967 – with Ron Courtney in 1968
40-11 – Carl Haas (?) in 1967 - unknown in 1968
40-18 – Hansen in 1967 – unknown in 1968 (I would think he still raced it, but I have to confirm it)
Dana car 1 for Revson in 1967 - unknown in 1968
Dana car 2 for Bondurant in 1967 - unknown in 1968
Cordts in 1967 – retained in 1968
Morin in 1967 - unknown in 1968
Eaton in 1967 – retained in 1968*
Amick in 1967 - unknown in 1968
Crawford in 1967 – retained in 1968

New drivers in M1C seen in 1968
da Mota – brown M1C (was seen in a grey M1B at Bridgehampton in 1967)
W. Chebly – in Venezuela


*I have seen several photos of Eaton racing his red Ford-engined M1C in 1968, but here you will find a photo of him in a white M1B at the Riverside CanAm :
http://www.racingspo...8-10-27-098.jpg
He probably borrowed somebody else car ? His compatriot Ostiguy raced the ex-works M1B chassis 1-66 in 1968 (raced by Spence in the 67 CanAm), maybe that is the one ?

unknown McLarens racing in 1968
Ch. Dougall had a car for L. Craig to drive in the northwest. The car was destroyed by the owner at Westwood (thanks to Rudow)
van Beuren had a McLaren at the Mexico USRRC
Wietzes had a McLaren at the Mont Tremblant USRRC (maybe a M6B ?)
S (or F) P Wedge Rafferty, from Indiana – given as a Mk III (M1C) on the Road America CanAm entry list
Gary Wilson – already on the unknown list for 1967 – given as a Mk IIB on several CanAm entry lists, I guess that's a mix-up meaning M1B
Treischmann – car also driven by Ledwith (according to Mid-Ohio USRRC entry list) – given as a Mk III on the Road America CanAm and Bridgehampton CanAm entry lists
Tom Swindell – was from Pontiac, Michigan – no other clue
James Matuska, for Eric Haga to drive – Mk III (M1C) according to Stardust CanAm entry list


#279 horizon

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 21:27

From Mr. David Billes this morning answering the question of What was the chassis number and who did you sell the car too!!

"M1 sold to a Local Racer who converted it to a Formula A. I purchased the car used from Roger Penske. John Cordts rolled it at St. Jovete and wrote off the Body"

Hope this helps :)

Cheers

Edited by horizon, 27 January 2010 - 22:26.


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#280 David M. Kane

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 21:31

Jerry Entin boring? :lol: :lol: :rotfl:

Please stop, you're killing me! :rotfl:

#281 RA Historian

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 01:07

M1C40-06 – Haas in 1967 – with Ron Courtney in 1968
40-11 – Carl Haas (?) in 1967 - unknown in 1968
40-18 – Hansen in 1967 – unknown in 1968 (I would think he still raced it, but I have to confirm it)
entry list

Courtney car went to Clif Apel in 1969.
Hansen car was used by Hansen only until fall, 1967, when he purchased a Lola T-70 from Roger Penske. Do not know where McLaren went, but today I believe it is in the Matthews Collection.
Tom

#282 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:25

From Mr. David Billes this morning answering the question of What was the chassis number and who did you sell the car too!!

"M1 sold to a Local Racer who converted it to a Formula A. I purchased the car used from Roger Penske. John Cordts rolled it at St. Jovete and wrote off the Body"

Hope this helps :)

Cheers

Frank Salem of Hanover, Ontario built a Ferret Formula A car based on a McLaren M1A. Could that be the car? If the Ferret was 20-10, it would be very interesting to me if Bonhams could tell us where it went after Salem.

Horizon - could you ask Billes if he recalls the name Frank Salem or whether Hanover sounds like the right place?

#283 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 19:26

The very excellent Mr Horizon strikes again. He has just sent me this response from Dave Billes:

I believe that Frank Salem was the purchaser. The name Ferret also rings a bell. I found no records of the car, probably because it was not owned by my company being the first “Race Car” that I was involved with.

David Billes


So that's the Ferret. Another F5000 mystery solved?

Allen

#284 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 19:34

Here's more on the Ferret. THe Ferret Industries website calls it the Mk 2 but it was called the Mk 3 when it raced.

http://www.ferretind...a/photos/mark2/


#285 ERault

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 12:33

Just to be clear, that means the Dave Wolin M1A can't be 20-10 ?


#286 Allen Brown

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 13:14

Just to be clear, that means the Dave Wolin M1A can't be 20-10 ?

I don't see how. Billes says it went straight to Salem.

#287 ERault

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 17:17

I don't see how. Billes says it went straight to Salem.


I understand that, it is just that 2 separate M1As wearing Chinook bodywork around 1968/1969 is very coincidental.

#288 Allen Brown

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 18:08

Jonathan Hirst and Tim Wilken who run the Ferret website have kindly allowed me to use this image of the Ferret on a page I'm writing about this short-lived Formula A car.

Posted Image

It's a clear crisp image but the colour is shot and my feeble image manipulation skills are insufficient to recover it. Anyone fancy having a go? If they do, the full-size (4Mb) image is here.

Please note that the image is copyright Jonathan Hirst and Tim Wilken and you do not have permission to post it anywhere else.

#289 David McKinney

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 18:50

You can't make a silk purse out a sow's ear, but this looked slightly better on my screen:
Posted Image

#290 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 06:27

I phoned John Cordts and his wife Linda Kerr last night. John is recovering from double-bypass heart surgery. He will be able to drive again by Friday, but will not be able to ride his motorcycle for three months!

Apparently, Dave Billes owned the various McLarens, and John wasn't able to help much as to the acquisition and disposal of them, or the Brabham BT23B, which he said was owned by Paul Seitz. He referred to the M1C as a Mk 3, and said the M8D/3 went back to Herb Caplan after Billes/Cordts finished with it in 1974. I checked the internet to see if we could confirm this with Caplan, but I believe he passed away in 1999.

Vince H.

#291 horizon

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 14:32

Wishing John a speedy recovery,
In Talking to David Billes, His last can am race as a car owner was Edmonton 1971. A McLaren m8C with Turbos !!, So perhaps the 8D that John Cordts raced was somebody other than Mr.Billes.

Cheers

#292 RA Historian

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 16:38

Wishing John a speedy recovery,
In Talking to David Billes, His last can am race as a car owner was Edmonton 1971. A McLaren m8C with Turbos !!, So perhaps the 8D that John Cordts raced was somebody other than Mr.Billes

It is my understanding that in 1972-73 Cordts drove a McLaren M8D for Bill Overhauser's WORLd Team. In 1974 he drove a McLaren M8F for Herb Caplan's US Racing.
Tom

#293 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 07:55

It is my understanding that in 1972-73 Cordts drove a McLaren M8D for Bill Overhauser's WORLd Team. In 1974 he drove a McLaren M8F for Herb Caplan's US Racing.
Tom


I think you're right. The 1974 programs list Performance Engineering (Dave Billes' outfit) as the entrant for the M8F, and that was also on the car, but maybe that was just a sponsorship or support deal. I believe John told me on the phone that the M8F still belonged to Caplan when he raced it in 1974 and went back to (remained with?) Caplan after that season.

Vince H.


#294 RA Historian

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 14:44

I think you're right. The 1974 programs list Performance Engineering (Dave Billes' outfit) as the entrant for the M8F, and that was also on the car, but maybe that was just a sponsorship or support deal. I believe John told me on the phone that the M8F still belonged to Caplan when he raced it in 1974 and went back to (remained with?) Caplan after that season.

Vince H.

Sounds logical. The M8F that Cordts drove in 1974 for Billes and/or Caplan was painted in the light blue Caplan colors and was the same car that Scooter Patrick drove for Caplan in 1973.
Tom

#295 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:02

And most probably, the mount for George Follmer in the CanAm/Makes race @ Mosport in 1976.



#296 Phigr7

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 10:56

Follmer had a M20 at Mosport :)

#297 RA Historian

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 15:10

Follmer had a M20 at Mosport :)

Right. Caplan bought the M20 from Roy Woods Racing after the 1973 season. Scooter Patrick drove it for him in the 1974 Can Am, winning at Road America in what turned out to be the final Can Am race. (Both Shadow DN-4s broke that day.) Caplan held onto the car, running it at the Aug. 25, 1975, Road America Handicap with Milt Minter driving, and at the Mosport race in August, 1976, with Follmer. I believe this particular car is now owned by Don Devine.

Tom

#298 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 07:01

I phoned John Cordts and his wife Linda Kerr last night. John is recovering from double-bypass heart surgery. He will be able to drive again by Friday, but will not be able to ride his motorcycle for three months!


Correction - I phoned Linda Kerr again last night. John is recovering from surgery to two valves in his heart, not double-bypass. He has also purchased a second motorcycle for when he is able to ride again in a few months.

Vince H.


#299 Giraffe

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:40

M1C - 40-12 was offered for sale for sale yesterday at the Coys Auction at the Autosport International Racing Car Show at the NEC, Birmingham. The sales brochure says it came from Chuck Haines and Tom Fredericks via Ian Webb of Northdown Racing to Nick Mason for whom John Dabbs prepared it, before being sold to Peter Kaus for a 21 year sojourn in his Rosso Bianco Museum.

Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2010-01-17

Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2010-01-17


Coys reportedly knocked this out for £125,000. Can anyone tell me if that's a good or a bad price for this M1?


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#300 rwk

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 14:09

http://cgi.ebay.com/...P...RK:MEWAX:IT

t 70 didn't sell at 200. not that they compare, but looks like demand is still there for quality cars.