I'm searching about the Intercontinental Formula, a single-seaters series that happened just in 1961.
What I know is that some British teams organized this (unofficial) Championships for single-seaters with 3 liters engine, against the new F. 1 rules (1500 engines).
This series was organized only in 1961, at Silverstone and at some other circuit (Snetterton I think, and perhaps other European circuits) . I don't know anything other.
Can someone help me with results, articles, sites or pictures? Thanks.
If I remember well, driver Giulio Cabianca died in an accident at Modena circuit in June 1961 while testing a Cooper-Ferrari 3000cc engine, built for this category.
1961 Intercontinental Formula
Started by
Nanni Dietrich
, Mar 30 2005 09:58
19 replies to this topic
#3
Rob29
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Posted 30 March 2005 - 14:53
Info on Stefan's site is slightly misleading.
1, New Zealand GP shown as 'non-championship F1 race' whereas it was Formula Libre contested by 2.5 litre F1 cars shipped directly from Riverside.
An official Intercontinental Formula was anounced by the FIA.
6 rounds were scheduled;
May Silverstone
May 30 Indy 500 (though not to ICF rules any more than than the previous 11 yrs had been F1 )
Jun 29 Monza LotteryGP (cancelled)
Aug Brands Hatch
Sep Turin-GP Centenaire (cancelled)
Oct Watkins Glen (replaced by USGP for F1)
Championship was not awarded as rules required a minimum of 5 rounds to be held.
If you are going to do an unofficial championship,I think 12 races quallify.The 5 ICF races actually held,plus the 7 Tasman Libre ones.
Rules were max 3000cc,but most cars were 2500cc.
1, New Zealand GP shown as 'non-championship F1 race' whereas it was Formula Libre contested by 2.5 litre F1 cars shipped directly from Riverside.
An official Intercontinental Formula was anounced by the FIA.
6 rounds were scheduled;
May Silverstone
May 30 Indy 500 (though not to ICF rules any more than than the previous 11 yrs had been F1 )
Jun 29 Monza LotteryGP (cancelled)
Aug Brands Hatch
Sep Turin-GP Centenaire (cancelled)
Oct Watkins Glen (replaced by USGP for F1)
Championship was not awarded as rules required a minimum of 5 rounds to be held.
If you are going to do an unofficial championship,I think 12 races quallify.The 5 ICF races actually held,plus the 7 Tasman Libre ones.
Rules were max 3000cc,but most cars were 2500cc.
#4
David McKinney
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Posted 30 March 2005 - 16:10
....although there was no Tasman series until 1964Originally posted by Rob29
The 5 ICF races actually held, plus the 7 Tasman Libre ones
#5
billthekat
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Posted 30 March 2005 - 18:56
From Stefan Ornerdal's site:
Pos Date Name of Race Track, venue Notes
1 07.01 VIII New Zealand Grand Prix Ardmore, New Zealand
2 26.03 II Lombank Trophy Snetterton, Great Britain + Intercontinental Formula
3 03.04 IX Glover Trophy Goodwood, Great Britain
4 03.04 XIII Lavant Cup Goodwood, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
5 03.04 XXI Grand Prix de Pau Pau, France
6 09.04 III Grand Prix de Bruxelles Heysel, Brussels, Belgium
7 16.04 II Preis von Wien Aspern, Vienna, Austria
8 22.04 XVI B.A.R.C. "200" Aintree, Great Britain
9 25.04 XI Gran Premio Siracusa Siracusa, Italy
10 06.05 XIII BRDC Daily Express International Trophy Silverstone, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
11 14.05 XVIX Grand Prix Automobile de Monaco Monte Carlo, Monaco World Championship, Rd 1
12 14.05 XIV Gran Premio di Napoli Posillipo, Naples, Italy
13 22.05 IX Grote Prijs van Nederland Zandvoort, Netherlands World Championship, Rd 2
14 23.05 IX London Trophy Crystal Palace, Great Britain
15 03.06 II Silver City Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain
16 18.06 XXI Grand Prix de Belgique Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium World Championship, Rd 3
17 02.07 XLVII Grand Prix de l'A.C.F. Reims, France World Championship, Rd 4
18 08.07 XXIII British Empire Trophy Silverstone, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
19 15.07 XIV R.A.C. British Grand Prix Aintree, Great Britain World Championship, Rd 5
20 23.07 I Grosser Preis der Solitude Solitude, Stuttgart, Germany
21 06.08 XXIII Grosser Preis von Deutschland - XXI GP d'Europe Nürburgring, Germany World Championship, Rd 6
22 07.08 Guards Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
23 20.08 X Kanonloppet Karlskoga, Sweden
24 27.08 II Det Danske Grand Prix Roskildering, Denmark
25 03.09 VII Gran Premio di Modena Modena, Italy
26 10.09 XXXII Gran Premio d'Italia Monza, Italy World Championship, Rd 7
27 17.09 III Flugplatzrennen Zeltweg, Austria
28 23.09 VIII International Gold Cup Oulton Park, Great Britain
29 01.10 V Lewis Evans Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain
30 08.10 IV United States Grand Prix Watkins Glen, New York, USA World Championship, Rd 8
31 09.10 XXVI Australian Grand Prix Mallala, South Australia
32 12.10
04.11? I Coppa Italia Vallelunga, Rome, Italy
33 26.11 Gran Premio di Mexico Magdalena Mixhuca, Mexico City CANCELLED
34 09.12 IV Rand Grand Prix Kyalami, South Africa
35 17.12 I Natal Grand Prix Westmead, South Africa
36 26.12 VIII South African Grand Prix East London, South Africa
Some comments.
While doing reserach for my series on the 1961 GP season, I took the time to take a closer look at the ICF. The CSI did indeed recognize the ICF as a formula beginning with the 1961 season, which was interesting tactic concerning the fussing and fuming going on over the new F1. There was a bit more discussion here and there than most would think, but although the backers of the formula were serious enough there seemed to be some unspoken notions that maybe this wasn't going to quite turn out as they anticipated earlier.
I have the technical specs for the ICF somewhere in my notes and maybe even put them in the articles -- I don't recall and the RVM articles seem to have disappeared from the main page.
I don't recall anything indicating that the International Sweepstakes would be an ICF event, much less part of an ICF championship. The USAC was very interested in the formula and actually adopted it as an option for its 1962 Road Racing Championship events. There was much speculation on the western shores of the Atlantic concerning the ICF, but in the end not much really came of it, outside the USAC interest. The SCCA apparently had not the slightest interest, a position in keeping with its narrow focus on sports car versus open-wheeled racing, a policy supported by the vast majority of its membership.
Watkins Glen, after staging increasingly successful 'libre' events since 1958, got a spot on the international calendar for an ICF event for 1961, which it fully intended to run until Alec Ulmann finally released the date for the USGP in mid-August, a time deliberately chosen so as to make it impossible for Watkins Glen to pick up the USGP. However, as I think I describe fairly well in the article covering the USGP -- based upon extensive talks with Cameron Argetsinger and from whom I have learned more since then -- this was not the case: the ACCUS asked Watkins Glen if they would take the date (set for November) and they did, moving it to the date they already had in October, scarcely six weeks away. A truly remarkable feat.
The Monza and Torino events were abandoned rather early on, it becoming quite apparent that any Italian interest in the formula was more of an illusion than a reality, despite the early support of such a notion by Ferrari and others in the Italian racing community.
Missing from the calendar are the South African events which were run to the new Formula One that season. There were lots of them and I am not sure I ever really truly sorted them all out as which were in the championship and which weren't, but they were certainly interesting.
As much as I somehow seem to spend on the Twiddler Formula, I never really cared for it very much then nor all that much now -- as strange as that might sound. I recall wishing that the ICF would succeed so that perhaps there would be some American participation given that the regs were being looked at to increase the displacement of engines using pushrods and based upon production engines for 1962 or 1963 -- which led to the discussion in some circles of "Formula 366," but that is another story.
As David points out, the Tasman events were not a series organized into a championship until 1964, with more than a wink, a nod, and a nudge to the ICF in some ways.
Funny, I can look at that list and conjure up a pretty fair mental notion of each event and haven't a clue as to much of what happened during last season's F1 events.....
Pos Date Name of Race Track, venue Notes
1 07.01 VIII New Zealand Grand Prix Ardmore, New Zealand
2 26.03 II Lombank Trophy Snetterton, Great Britain + Intercontinental Formula
3 03.04 IX Glover Trophy Goodwood, Great Britain
4 03.04 XIII Lavant Cup Goodwood, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
5 03.04 XXI Grand Prix de Pau Pau, France
6 09.04 III Grand Prix de Bruxelles Heysel, Brussels, Belgium
7 16.04 II Preis von Wien Aspern, Vienna, Austria
8 22.04 XVI B.A.R.C. "200" Aintree, Great Britain
9 25.04 XI Gran Premio Siracusa Siracusa, Italy
10 06.05 XIII BRDC Daily Express International Trophy Silverstone, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
11 14.05 XVIX Grand Prix Automobile de Monaco Monte Carlo, Monaco World Championship, Rd 1
12 14.05 XIV Gran Premio di Napoli Posillipo, Naples, Italy
13 22.05 IX Grote Prijs van Nederland Zandvoort, Netherlands World Championship, Rd 2
14 23.05 IX London Trophy Crystal Palace, Great Britain
15 03.06 II Silver City Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain
16 18.06 XXI Grand Prix de Belgique Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium World Championship, Rd 3
17 02.07 XLVII Grand Prix de l'A.C.F. Reims, France World Championship, Rd 4
18 08.07 XXIII British Empire Trophy Silverstone, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
19 15.07 XIV R.A.C. British Grand Prix Aintree, Great Britain World Championship, Rd 5
20 23.07 I Grosser Preis der Solitude Solitude, Stuttgart, Germany
21 06.08 XXIII Grosser Preis von Deutschland - XXI GP d'Europe Nürburgring, Germany World Championship, Rd 6
22 07.08 Guards Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain Intercontinental Formula
23 20.08 X Kanonloppet Karlskoga, Sweden
24 27.08 II Det Danske Grand Prix Roskildering, Denmark
25 03.09 VII Gran Premio di Modena Modena, Italy
26 10.09 XXXII Gran Premio d'Italia Monza, Italy World Championship, Rd 7
27 17.09 III Flugplatzrennen Zeltweg, Austria
28 23.09 VIII International Gold Cup Oulton Park, Great Britain
29 01.10 V Lewis Evans Trophy Brands Hatch, Great Britain
30 08.10 IV United States Grand Prix Watkins Glen, New York, USA World Championship, Rd 8
31 09.10 XXVI Australian Grand Prix Mallala, South Australia
32 12.10
04.11? I Coppa Italia Vallelunga, Rome, Italy
33 26.11 Gran Premio di Mexico Magdalena Mixhuca, Mexico City CANCELLED
34 09.12 IV Rand Grand Prix Kyalami, South Africa
35 17.12 I Natal Grand Prix Westmead, South Africa
36 26.12 VIII South African Grand Prix East London, South Africa
Originally posted by Rob29
Info on Stefan's site is slightly misleading.
1, New Zealand GP shown as 'non-championship F1 race' whereas it was Formula Libre contested by 2.5 litre F1 cars shipped directly from Riverside.
An official Intercontinental Formula was anounced by the FIA.
6 rounds were scheduled;
May Silverstone
May 30 Indy 500 (though not to ICF rules any more than than the previous 11 yrs had been F1 )
Jun 29 Monza LotteryGP (cancelled)
Aug Brands Hatch
Sep Turin-GP Centenaire (cancelled)
Oct Watkins Glen (replaced by USGP for F1)
Championship was not awarded as rules required a minimum of 5 rounds to be held.
If you are going to do an unofficial championship,I think 12 races quallify.The 5 ICF races actually held,plus the 7 Tasman Libre ones.
Rules were max 3000cc,but most cars were 2500cc.
Some comments.
While doing reserach for my series on the 1961 GP season, I took the time to take a closer look at the ICF. The CSI did indeed recognize the ICF as a formula beginning with the 1961 season, which was interesting tactic concerning the fussing and fuming going on over the new F1. There was a bit more discussion here and there than most would think, but although the backers of the formula were serious enough there seemed to be some unspoken notions that maybe this wasn't going to quite turn out as they anticipated earlier.
I have the technical specs for the ICF somewhere in my notes and maybe even put them in the articles -- I don't recall and the RVM articles seem to have disappeared from the main page.
I don't recall anything indicating that the International Sweepstakes would be an ICF event, much less part of an ICF championship. The USAC was very interested in the formula and actually adopted it as an option for its 1962 Road Racing Championship events. There was much speculation on the western shores of the Atlantic concerning the ICF, but in the end not much really came of it, outside the USAC interest. The SCCA apparently had not the slightest interest, a position in keeping with its narrow focus on sports car versus open-wheeled racing, a policy supported by the vast majority of its membership.
Watkins Glen, after staging increasingly successful 'libre' events since 1958, got a spot on the international calendar for an ICF event for 1961, which it fully intended to run until Alec Ulmann finally released the date for the USGP in mid-August, a time deliberately chosen so as to make it impossible for Watkins Glen to pick up the USGP. However, as I think I describe fairly well in the article covering the USGP -- based upon extensive talks with Cameron Argetsinger and from whom I have learned more since then -- this was not the case: the ACCUS asked Watkins Glen if they would take the date (set for November) and they did, moving it to the date they already had in October, scarcely six weeks away. A truly remarkable feat.
The Monza and Torino events were abandoned rather early on, it becoming quite apparent that any Italian interest in the formula was more of an illusion than a reality, despite the early support of such a notion by Ferrari and others in the Italian racing community.
Missing from the calendar are the South African events which were run to the new Formula One that season. There were lots of them and I am not sure I ever really truly sorted them all out as which were in the championship and which weren't, but they were certainly interesting.
As much as I somehow seem to spend on the Twiddler Formula, I never really cared for it very much then nor all that much now -- as strange as that might sound. I recall wishing that the ICF would succeed so that perhaps there would be some American participation given that the regs were being looked at to increase the displacement of engines using pushrods and based upon production engines for 1962 or 1963 -- which led to the discussion in some circles of "Formula 366," but that is another story.
As David points out, the Tasman events were not a series organized into a championship until 1964, with more than a wink, a nod, and a nudge to the ICF in some ways.
Funny, I can look at that list and conjure up a pretty fair mental notion of each event and haven't a clue as to much of what happened during last season's F1 events.....
#6
Ray Bell
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:28
David... do you think any of the Australian or New Zealand races were restricted to a formula at all?
I'm sure if a 4.5 litre something turned up it would have been given a run... and therefore they were definitely Flibre events.
The common reference to the cars used as FIntercontinental cars would have been, as much as anything, an attempt to shore up the recognition of the formula as some very popular visitors to these shores were hoping very much that the category would take off.
I'm sure if a 4.5 litre something turned up it would have been given a run... and therefore they were definitely Flibre events.
The common reference to the cars used as FIntercontinental cars would have been, as much as anything, an attempt to shore up the recognition of the formula as some very popular visitors to these shores were hoping very much that the category would take off.
#7
ensign14
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:34
IIRC, it was suggested in the 1960 Automobile Year that the 500 would be part of an ICF Championship. Question is whether this was because the ICF formula would embrace "Indycars" or whether it was a question of "we need something outside Europe and the 500 is outside Europe".Originally posted by billthekat
I don't recall anything indicating that the International Sweepstakes would be an ICF event, much less part of an ICF championship.
Also, with the point scoring mentality, it seems curious that no "championship" as such seems to have been awarded - or even set up? I have never seen anything along the lines of "Moss needs a win at Brands to take the Championship lead" vel sim.
#8
RTH
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:44
A film of the May 1961 Silverstone intercontinental race was made by amateur film maker Freddie Barrat and can be viewed on Motor Films Quarterly volume 5 VHS
www.motorfilms.com
www.motorfilms.com
#9
Rob29
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:45
It was certainly set up. I recall the dates being included in the 61 International Calandar printed in Autosport most likely,though I no longer have proof. It was declared void before the first round when the Italian races were cancelled.Originally posted by ensign14
IIRC, it was suggested in the 1960 Automobile Year that the 500 would be part of an ICF Championship. Question is whether this was because the ICF formula would embrace "Indycars" or whether it was a question of "we need something outside Europe and the 500 is outside Europe".
Also, with the point scoring mentality, it seems curious that no "championship" as such seems to have been awarded - or even set up? I have never seen anything along the lines of "Moss needs a win at Brands to take the Championship lead" vel sim.
My sugestion of an 'unofficial' championship was that some of the same cars & drivers took part in all 12 events.
#10
David McKinney
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 13:13
AFAIK, all the big races in both countries were FL at this time. AFAIK, there had been a very few 500cc F3 races in NZ in the 1950s, but no other restriction until the so-called National Formula (1500/1600) from 1965. A similar situation in Oz, I'm sure (and no, I'm not forgetting your famous F1 race of 1951 or whatever)Originally posted by Ray Bell
David... do you think any of the Australian or New Zealand races were restricted to a formula at all?
The Lycoming Special (5.3 litres) was still racing at the end of the pre-1964 period (eg, 1963 NZ Grand Prix) - and what about A Glass's BRM-Scarab in your internationals around then?
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 20:30
That's exactly as I thought, David...
By the way, the Scarab was actually built to FIntercontinental, as there was a production engine proviso either in the formula or in proposals for the formula. CA would have been fine if that had been the case.
By the way, the Scarab was actually built to FIntercontinental, as there was a production engine proviso either in the formula or in proposals for the formula. CA would have been fine if that had been the case.
#12
David McKinney
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 20:56
Haven't we done this before?Originally posted by Ray Bell
By the way, the Scarab was actually built to FIntercontinental, as there was a production engine proviso either in the formula or in proposals for the formula.
I thought the 'IC' Scarab was built for Formula 366?
#13
billthekat
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Posted 31 March 2005 - 21:32
Originally posted by David McKinney
Haven't we done this before?
--URL::1da25505dcd9f3660d820064b5e8ea17-- Atlas BB Search for "Scarab"
With particular attention here....
The Intercontinental Formula Championship of 1961
#14
David McKinney
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 05:04
I didn't go through all those 'Scarab' threads, Don, but the 'Intercontinental' thread refers to the front-engined car, whereas Ray's comment (and my response) related to the rear-engined Scarab single-seater
#15
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 06:17
Originally posted by David McKinney
Haven't we done this before?
I thought the 'IC' Scarab was built for Formula 366?
A fine point lost on me David...
Remember? I didn't follow racing till mid '62... and then all the books ended at 1960. 1961/early 1962 is a washout to me. I really should bone up on it!
#16
David McKinney
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:31
Originally posted by Ray Bell
A fine point lost on me David...
Remember? I didn't follow racing till mid '62... and then all the books ended at 1960. 1961/early 1962 is a washout to me. I really should bone up on it!
I didn't follow racing till 1958/59 - but within 12 months had read everything I could find about racing from 1894 on
Different strokes for different blokes, as they used to say
#17
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:33
Oh yes, the same for me...
But everything ended with 1960... go check around and see what I mean. All the books on racing that were available in 1962-63 simply ended at 1960.
But everything ended with 1960... go check around and see what I mean. All the books on racing that were available in 1962-63 simply ended at 1960.
#18
David McKinney
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 13:27
Automobile Year?Originally posted by Ray Bell
Oh yes, the same for me...
But everything ended with 1960... go check around and see what I mean. All the books on racing that were available in 1962-63 simply ended at 1960.
That little annual Motor Manual used to put out?
#19
Ray Bell
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 13:34
Sorry, David, in my world Automobile Year didn't exist...
Did that little annual last into the sixties? I've only seen them in later years, and only for the fifties. Lots of nice ideas for Specials in them.
Did that little annual last into the sixties? I've only seen them in later years, and only for the fifties. Lots of nice ideas for Specials in them.
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#20
billthekat
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 13:49
The rear-engined Scarab, the "IC," was adapted to the ICF after one of the front-engined cars tried ICF; and then there was the "F/366" Scarab which Karl Ludvigsen drove....
