26 replies to this topic

[crozier74]

Just been listening to the ITV crew droning on about how this weekend's Bahrain GP was "the hottest race in history". As always, I was somewhat suspicious of their full grasp of the facts, especially given their non-existent references to pre-1950 racing. Argentina '55 sprung to mind, but is there any info on what the actual temperature was? What other GPs, championship and non-championship, stand out as extremely hot? And, if you want to take the concept further, what are the hottest (or coldest for that matter) conditions in which a motor competition has been conducted, eg. Dakar.

[billthekat]

I can personally vouch for the Dallas GP in 1984 being very hot. I am sure I can find the numbers somewhere, but it was ugly, not only hot but unusually humid for that time of year in Dallas. I can also vouch for the 1959 GP de l'ACF being a generally hot and miserable experience for most involved.

The 1953 Indianapolis race was very bad.

The 1955 Argentine GP race has been mentioned.

Several of the Darlington events were run in utterly miserable conditions -- something which can be said for most of the Grand National/Cup events in NASCAR, one of the reasons running events under the lights is not just something driven by television. Again, I speak from personal experience.

[Ray Bell]

Run on a Naval air base, the 1948 Australian Grand Prix was held in typically (for the era...) hot conditions...

The grass surrounding the track, through the areas where spectators were allowed to stand, had all been burned off to avoid fires, so it was uncomfortable from that point of view too.

The effect of the temperature was such that some of the Ford V8 Specials were sidelined early enough that they borrowed cylinder heads from spectator cars to continue in the race. Even some of the MG TC-based Specials were wilting, while one with a thoughtfully located overflow tank in the (high) headrest had no problems.

Lobethal in 1940 saw the heads on Doug Whiteford's Ford V8 literally melted, by the way, but January 1-3 (the Lobethal dates) just has to be hot in the Adelaide Hills.

At Caversham in 1957 the temperatures were alarming as well. Stan Jones drove right through the Grand Prix there, stepped out of his car and was told that Lex Davison had beat him even though the Ferrari had been driven for a number of laps by Bill Patterson. I think this was the only time an Australian Grand Prix featured relief drivers coming into play, and it was because of the extreme heat.

[Gary C]

............was going to say Buenos Aires '55, but Don got there before me

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by crozier74
Just been listening to the ITV crew droning on about how this weekend's Bahrain GP was "the hottest race in history". As always, I was somewhat suspicious of their full grasp of the facts.

I think we had a thread about this last year.


Ah, here it is...

http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=66487


It's fair to say sometimes that it seems James Allen's sense of "in history" goes back to.... ooh 2002. It's a shame he comes up with these silly things as he has got a sense of history considering his dad raced in the 1950's and his two sons are called Enzo & Emerson.

Murray used to do the same. When he retired after 52 years of motorsport, anything pre-Mansell seemed oft-forgot.

[Barry Boor]

IIRC, Reims 1960 was fairly warm....

[Vitesse2]

What James Allen was wittering on about was that strange thing "track temperature". As the son of a meteorologist I'd be interested to know how they measure that. To be recognised as a proper "shade" temperature, a reading has to be taken inside an apparatus called a Stevenson screen (looks a bit like a white beehive) - there are strict rules about how and where they can be sited, in order to avoid outside influences like reflected heat and direct sunlight and to provide consistent readings wherever they are taken.

I assume there's some sort of sensor buried in the track to measure this, but I very much doubt that there is any uniformity about how and where they measure it, since no two tracks are the same, light and shade would be variable from track to track and even different tarmac mixes would probably absorb and retain different amounts of heat: a concrete track surface would reflect more heat and thus return a lower figure.

Put a thermometer in direct sunlight and you can get it to read whatever you want - as demonstrated last year by some prat of a journalist on the Daily Express who put one in his garden and got it up to 135 Fahrenheit. Made a good picture for the silly season though ....

[scheivlak]

The 1967 and 1968 SA Grand Prix at Kyalami come to mind; DSJ wrote that in 1967 the temperatures during practice rose to 90F with a track temperature of 140F - for what it's worth.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by scheivlak
The 1967 and 1968 SA Grand Prix at Kyalami come to mind; DSJ wrote that in 1967 the temperatures during practice rose to 90F with a track temperature of 140F - for what it's worth.

I don't think they're worth mentioning until it's over 100F...

Warwick Farm in 1961 saw the fuel boil in the tanks of the BRMs.

[Gary Davies]

From memory (I'm not a home right now) Mike Lang reported that the temperature (Whatever that might be! See Mr. Armstrong's earlier post.) was approaching 100° Fahrenheit prior to the start of the '55 Argentina race.

[911]

Wasn't Dallas, 1984, a hot one? Didn't the tarmac break up due to the heat, or was it because of the cars?

[billthekat]

Originally posted by 911
Wasn't Dallas, 1984, a hot one? Didn't the tarmac break up due to the heat, or was it because of the cars?

A relatively poor paving job which might have gotten by had the temperatures not gotten so high, not making it as difficult as it might have been otherwise for the track surface to break up. And it was HOT and temps were about 100F actual and worse with the humidity factored in, 100F+....

[Ray Bell]

Dallas '84 was mentioned by Don, yes... and there's another reason the surface is prone to breaking up in these very hot races...

That's because the surface is often just laid a few days before the event... it doesn't have time to cure. So if it's inordinately hot, the breakdown takes place and schrapnel begins to fly.

I still think they shouldn't be counted unless they are over 100F!

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Vanwall
From memory (I'm not a home right now) Mike Lang reported that the temperature (Whatever that might be! See Mr. Armstrong's earlier post.) was approaching 100° Fahrenheit prior to the start of the '55 Argentina race.

The contemporary Autocar report says that at the start of the race, the temperature was 96 deg F, (that equals 35.56 deg C) the track temperature going up to around 140. What time the race did start? Is it possible that the temperature had gone up during the race? (To convert Fahrenheit to Celsius and vice versa, click here.)

IIRC at the start of this year's Bahrain Grand Prix, the air temperature was around 38 deg C, which makes 100.4 deg F. The 1993 Hungarian Grand Prix - which I attended - was similarly hot. BTW that race marked Damon Hill's first Grand Prix victory.

[Tim Murray]

I thought that the temperature at the start of the Bahrain race was 42°C (107.6°F). This figure was mentioned several times by the commentators, and was also shown on a screen race facts display just before the start.

[Vitesse2]

Which brings me back to my point: where and how was that Buenos Aires temperature taken?

Are we talking about a shade temperature in the press box, someone's pit, or at the back of the stands? Not in a Stevenson screen, I'm sure! We don't know how and where it was measured, therefore the figure is meaningless - reflected heat from walls, air movements and many other factors can be involved.

Similarly meaningless is a track temperature, especially if taken on the surface and (as would seem likely in this case) in direct sunlight.

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I thought that the temperature at the start of the Bahrain race was 42°C (107.6°F). This figure was mentioned several times by the commentators, and was also shown on a screen race facts display just before the start.

Thank You for correcting me Tim, I think 38 deg C was the temperature during final qualifying which of course took place a couple of hours before the race. Can you imagine how hot 42 deg C is? I can, since in 2003 I went to Jordan for holiday. It's amazing: wherever you go, it is strongly recommended to take a bottle of cold mineral water with you even for a ten-minute walk back to the (needless to say air-conditioned) hotel. Hats off to the drivers who finished the Bahrain Grand Prix, it must have been an extremely hard job

[D-Type]

Slightly OT: To convert Centigrade to Fahrenheit in your head (e.g. 38 C)

Double it (76)
Subtract 10% (76-7.6 = 68.4)
Add 32 (68.4 + 32 = 100.4 F)

This is exact and a lot easier than messing around with multiplying by 9 and dividing by 5, multiplying by 1.8 etc

Sadly it doesn't work the other way

[ensign14]

Originally posted by billthekat
The 1953 Indianapolis race was very bad.

So bad, of course, that one of the drivers (Carl Scarborough) died - allegedly of heat exhaustion, although I heard somewhere recently that he was possibly poisoned by engine fumes which contributed to things.

How about some of the Carreteras in Argentina? Were they run in the summer there?

[D-Type]

Wasn't Scarborough a diabetic as well? Or am I getting him mixed up with someone else?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by D-Type
Wasn't Scarborough a diabetic as well? Or am I getting him mixed up with someone else?

Howard Wilcox II was a diabetic, but he was years earlier.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by crozier74
.... "the hottest race in history". ...... their non-existent references to pre-1950 racing.....
... what are the hottest (or coldest for that matter) conditions ...

Indeed, a little knowledge of racing should bring up Tripolis! Written accounts by Karatsch and others are priceless. Wonder what Michelins and Bridgestones would do there...

BTW is it possible to visit the Tripolis track (or Libya itself) again after all these (turbulent) years? Just wondering.

[billthekat]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos
BTW is it possible to visit the Tripolis track (or Libya itself) again after all these (turbulent) years? Just wondering.

The circuit is long gone, first being bulldozed for expansion of Wheelus AFB and then later on as the area was either developed or incorporated into the exapnded airport facilities. I am unaware of any remnants of the circuit being left today. You can work out its location, but nothing apparent as being left over from when it was used as racing track.

[John B]

Originally posted by billthekat


A relatively poor paving job which might have gotten by had the temperatures not gotten so high, not making it as difficult as it might have been otherwise for the track surface to break up. And it was HOT and temps were about 100F actual and worse with the humidity factored in, 100F+....

On top of this there was a Can-Am race late Saturday IIRC, which was the final straw in the track coming apart! Mansell's exhaustion was one of the lasting images from that season.....

[billthekat]

Perhaps there is too much being of the specific metrics since it was not always a matter of great import for those at the time for recording such information for the archives for us to ponder. This whole issue of superlatives often gets carried to such lengths it is enough to make one long for the days when information moved at the speed of the postal carrier....

[Jerry Lee]

I don't know how accurate those bank signs are but the one I saw for the 1988 Unlimited Hydroplane Gold Cup in Evansville, IN said 120 and it was humid. It was miserable but good since I got to see a race.

[Graham Clayton]

1961 French Grand Prix at Reims - allegedly 35 Celsius (95 Fahrenheit) in the shade, and 52 Celsius (126 Fahrenheit) on the track.