74 replies to this topic

[bschenker]

It looks like the Lotus it’s this one from Sweden.

Here additional photos of Peter Mattli from the 1968 St.Ursanne-Les Rangiers.






Bruno Frei from Horw did not have a Lotus 33; the used vehicle was a Lotus 41.
With the question around "Voegeli Schmitten" I must again ask, anyhow it concerns a Mr. Vögeli probably of Schmitten Fribourg CH. An other Schmitten is in Germany.
According to Peter Mattli, Jo Siffert had three Lotus 33 to selling, from the employment in the film "Grand the Prix".
Mattli had large problems to adapt the engine to the altitude for the hill climb races.

[Gary C]

great pictures!!

[Allen Brown]

This is one for the Lotus experts.

How compelling are the similarities between Mattli's car and the Stockholm car?

Allen

[Macca]

Regarding R6, R8 and R9 and whether they were all used in the MGM movie 'Grand Prix'; I assumed they had been.

But there were two 25/33s that were converted into a Ferrari lookalike and a Yamura lookalike and seemed to stay that way right through the film......and I'd thought that there was an unmodified green/yellow 33 being passed by Sarti in the Monza staged shots. However, a closer look reveals that it appears to be a Lotus 20 faked-up, complete with oversized dummy gearbox.

So maybe only two were used, one being converted after doing filming in practise in standard form.


Paul M

[Macca]

R7 was said to have become the Parnell F2 in 1967; here is that pic (© Autosport) of Mike Spence at Mallory in a car with OUTBOARD front suspension and a slab-sided tub which is rather narrower than the Lotus 33 bodywork.....



So R7 either has to be added to the 'puzzling' Lotus 25/33 c/n's, or the Parnell F2 part of its history needs to be deleted................

Paul M

[Macca]

Unseemly though it is to add to a 4-year-old thread where the last 2 posts were by yrs trly................

...........it seemed the best place to post that Robs Lamplough's Lotus 33 ("R10") is currently for sale through H & H, as is his BRM P133 - so I'd better buy a lottery ticket.

And readdressing the post before last, these grabs from the MGM trailer about cameraman John Stevens show that there was an unmodified 25 or 33 used for filming at Monza:





Paul M

[bill moffat]

Mid September in Swizerland and it looks like they were struggling to get that ATS V8 engine to run at a decent temperature...

[bschenker]

Mid September in Swizerland and it looks like they were struggling to get that ATS V8 engine to run at a decent temperature...

Gargellen hill climb race on 17.09.1967.

Switzerland has not colonies! Gargellen is in Austria!

.

[bill moffat]

Gargellen hill climb race on 17.09.1967.

Switzerland has not colonies! Gargellen is in Austria!

.

'
Oops sorry - brain fade. As a consequence of Le Mans '55 another 40 years would elapse after this photo was taken before you could consider any form of motor racing activity in Switzerland....

[Allen Brown]

Mid September in Swizerland and it looks like they were struggling to get that ATS V8 engine to run at a decent temperature...

Great picture!

[Tony Matthews]

'
Oops sorry - brain fade. As a consequence of Le Mans '55 another 40 years would elapse after this photo was taken before you could consider any form of motor racing activity in Switzerland....

Apart from hill-climbs. I was at Les Rangiers in 1970/1!

[Dutchy]

Mid September in Swizerland and it looks like they were struggling to get that ATS V8 engine to run at a decent temperature...

Where did the ATS engine come into this story, or have I missed something?

[ERault]

Where did the ATS engine come into this story, or have I missed something?

First car in the picture is Moser's Cooper-ATS. The Lotus is in the background.

[Macca]

I found a photo of 'Hawkeye' in R7 at Killarney in 1966 with FPF power:

http://www.flickr.co...57622912525604/

which may be of passing interest.

Paul M

[Macca]

The Parnell F2 used, I am sure, the monocoque tub of Mike Spence's 1966 F1 Parnell-team Lotus-BRM 33...the car we came to know as R13. Its front end was modified to accept Les Redmond-style outboard-coil/damper suspension as used successfully on the 1966 Parnell-BRM sports car. Its rear bay housed a standard 1.6-litre Cosworth FVA 4-cyl engine. The car has come down to us today via some 40 years display at Donington as Lotus 25 'R7'. In fact R7 exited the scene in 1965...fate as yet unconfirmed, although - I have just been told this morning - it was written off due to a testing accident while being driven by "some Dutchman". This rings the faintest of bells...and the name Rob Slotemaker springs to mind...but I really hope that thereby I am not doing his memory a grave disservice?

While we thought for years that R3 was the 'lost Lotus 25' in fact it survived, went to New Zealand and thence to John Dawson-Damer as what he, and we, thought was 'R4'. Explaining the full story in just three magazine pages was never ever going to be easy. But having discovered the error it would have been wrong to ignore it. Sorry it's confusing.

DCN

(From another thread).........pulling this back up to include the fresh information.

So from the MS article we have R4/13 as the car that saw the most action, having the crash in Mexico in '66, becoming the Parnell F2 in '67, almost becoming the Parnell F1 in '68 and ending up rebuilt at Donington, here seen in 2006:



and R3 is the one that was owned by Yock and Hughes and had a Daimler V8



and a 4-cylinder:



but which was the one fitted with a Climax 4-banger and driven by Hawkins in early 1966 ( last seen being practised by Bonnier at Monaco):



Paul M

[Doug Nye]

The Parnell team's 4-cyl Climax-engined car used chassis R3, clearly identifiable - now that we have learned how - from distinctive rivet patterning on the monocoque. The car made its debut in this form - complying with the imminent 3-litre Formula 1 regs - in the 1965 Rand GP on December 4. It was campaigned in this form into the early part of 1966 before being refitted with a 2-litre BRM V8. It was this car which survived in 2-litre V8 F1 form into the 1967 season, NOT the so-called R13.
And it was then sold to Peter Yock in New Zealand.

The big Climax FPF's extra torque compared to the team's original 1.5-litre BRM V8s' demanded larger drive shaft inboard doughnut joints. The protruding bolts on the left side doughnut then demanded a clearance notch to be cut in the tub's rear bulkhead fabrication. This notch survived into dereliction in New Zealand, and became one of several identifying features upon that chassis, as used by Peter Yock and his successors. It could easily be mistaken for a notch cut to provide clearance for a left-side gearchange rod, as would have been required by the BRM 6-speed gearbox used on R13 in 1966. But we are pretty confident it had not been cut for that purpose.

I hold my hands up by the way - having earlier in this thread contributed some misleading (but sincerely believed at the time) tosh about Type 33 tubs and the manner in which they differed from 25s. See the current 'Motor Sport' for detail.

Ho hum... back to afternoon cup of tea ... DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 05 July 2013 - 16:03.

[JtP1]

The Team Lotus 33 which contested the Tasman Series in 1967 used a 2-litre version of the Climax FWMV engine. Another 25/33 raced in the Series in private hands a year or two later, with 2-litre BRM V8. So no 2.5 FPFs in a 33 in the Tasman Series

The Lotus 39, a 33 built for the non appearing flat 16, was converted to take a 4 cyld Climax and used for the 66 Tasman series by Clark.

[GD66]

Lovely pic by Bruce Wells

Edited by GD66, 06 July 2013 - 02:18.

[Ray Bell]

It looked better when Leo had it...

And better still with the Repco V8 in it.

[Macca]

What, better than in Team Lotus colours and driven by J. Clark?

A search for 'Slotemaker' came up with these:

mkessens:
Silverstone 1966, Tim Parnell asked Slotemaker and Wim Loos to test a Lotus-BRM. After he flipped a coin. Slotemaker was the first to go on track. After a couple of laps the front suspension broke. Loos didn't test that day the car. Does anybody have more information about this test?

Did Slotemaker test more Formula 1 cars?

Arjan de Roos:
Some anecdotes on Slotemaker ('Lucky' or 'The blond jet pilot')

When he flew for the Dutch Air Force he made a fly by for a girl friend who lived in The Hague. He flew over the city with his jet fighter at about 30-60 feet from the roof tops (!). The girl friend was impressed. Another woman (pregnant) had spontaneously started to give birth to her child. Slotemaker wasn’t caught as some other jets had been around and no-one had identified his plane. It did however lead to some questions in the Dutch House of Common.

The F1 test with BRM came from a race at Zandvoort. Slotemaker and his protege Wim Loos drove their Alfa GTA's in a race during the Grand Prix weekend. They impressed many on the wet track, slipping and sliding in formation. Some at BRM imagined it would be an idea to invite these gentlemen for the test.
It was decided by a toss of a coin that Rob would start the test (Piers Courage was present as well!). In the front suspension a previously broken part broke again after only a few laps. Slotemaker spun out of control and smashed into a wall. Unconcious. He hurt his knees, shoulders, jaw, ribs, etc. He ended up in the hospital.
Slotemaker had a miserable stay there and his manager Van Wamelen came back to the UK to pick him up. He was supposed to be his 'brother' as he could only be released from hospital if a family member asked for it. On a luggage cart Slotemaker was wheeled into the plane back to Holland.
This mishap was secretly kept away at the time, as it was seen as a bad promotion for his skid school. In Holland everyone believed 'Sloot' was in a UK-hospital for an acute inflammation of his appendicitis.

A promotional add for his skid school once was: "In de slip, uit de slip", meaning so much as "You are in a skid, and like that you are out of it". However, "slip" means in dutch panties and seems to be something you say to your girlfriend at a certain stage...

He also drove F2 in a Protos for Ron Harris. He was indeed works driver for Triumph, but also for DAF. He drove the Porsche 904 for Racing Team Holland.

Frank de Jong:
Doug, I enjoyed your latest BRM book but was puzzled that this wasn't in your book

In Autovisie 46/1966 (Nov. 18) was an article about Loos and Slotemaker testing a Parnell Lotus-BRM V8 "last friday" (so November 11, 1966) at Silverstone. Apart from them, Roy Pike took the wheel as well.
Apart from Tim Parnell, Raymond Mays was present (perhaps explaining that in our common memory it was a BRM which now turns out to be a Lotus-BRM, already mentioned above). Furthermore, Maarten van Wamelen (Slotemaker's team manager) and Hans Hugenholtz were there.
Both drove 30-40 laps, Rob a little quicker, clocking 1.39-1.40. Pike got fewer laps but was "a little" quicker than the Dutch boys; Slotemaker had some Silverstone experience, Loos had never been there before.

It was noted that soon there would be another test, either in Britain or BRM would meet them at Zandvoort.

Conclusion of the article was that neither Slotemaker nor Loos would replace Hill at the BRM works team any time soon (how modest!) but that it might be possible to let Slotemaker enter a private car; since BRM would launch a GT car soon ( ) that could be another field for cooperation.

In this article, there wasn't any mention of Slotemaker's accident. Autovisie #48/1966 (December 2), the explanation follows after a letter from a reader: when the article was sent to Autovisie, it was known that an accident had happened, but the condition of Slotemaker wasn't. To avoid "panic" they skipped the accident.
Sure.
A more popular explanation was that an anti-skid expert like Slotemaker couldn't have an accident at all; otherwise, his reputation was ruined and the anti-skid school would suffer.

I don't think there was ever a follow-up to this test.

So that would seem to have been the end of R7.

Paul M

[arttidesco]

So that would seem to have been the end of R7.

Paul M

Except of course there is a '33' with 'R7' stamps on various parts including from memory the chassis skin and a rear suspension hub. Theme Lotus page 176 points to this incorrectly stamped car being R8

Always been curious how that came about.

[Michael Oliver]

Except of course there is a '33' with 'R7' stamps on various parts including from memory the chassis skin and a rear suspension hub. Theme Lotus page 176 points to this incorrectly stamped car being R8 ;)

Always been curious how that came about.

Ralph

You need to read this month's Motor Sport, as Doug explains all in there...

I think the R7 stampings are probably a misguided attempt by someone to cement the Donington car's identity at some point and/or a reflection of the fact that the Parnell team owned both cars and parts were interchangeable.

We know where R8 is (Stockholm) so it is not that car.

The Donington car has straight cockpit inner panels, which makes it a Mk II 33, the first of which was R10, which was written off in period and has subsequently been rebuilt for Robs Lamplough. R11 is in a private collection, R12 was the Type 39 which went to Geoghegan, R13 is the Donington car and R14 is in the Caister Castle museum.

Michael

[JtP1]

How make difference to the construction of 25/33s did Chapman's sacking of the sheet metal workers have?

[Macca]

None - he sacked them in 1978, after the fatal crash of Ronnie Peterson in a Lotus 78, which Chapman felt he would have survived in a Lotus 79 had 'those communists' finished the spare car in time for Monza.

It is ironic that I never looked closely at my own photo of the Donington Lotus '25' taken in 2006 that I posted above, as one can clearly see the shape of the '33 Mk 2' tub inside the cockpit and also the 5 extra rivets on the side of the tub....

Paul M

[Arjan de Roos]

This is R8 in Stockholm

Lotus 33 R8

This is R6 in Basel

Lotus 33 R6