21 replies to this topic

[Darren Galpin]

In the May 2005 edition of MotorSport, there was an excellent article on the Reo and Hudson which were raced in Argentina in the 1920s and 1930s. It tantalisingly hinted at races and circuits, but left a lot unknown (at least to me!).

Two circuits it did mention were:

1) La Tablada, on the outskirts of Cordoba. This was 11 miles long, and was used on the 12th October 1923.

2) Los Toboganes, in Esperanza, used in 1928.

Does anyone know anything more about these events, and the races which were held there?

[jarama]

Darren,

take a look here:



http://www.thef1.com...ight=la tablada



Is in spanish. Hope it can helps.



Carles.

[Darren Galpin]

Hmm - need to register though. My Spanish is fairly basic, so is there anything I need to be aware of when registering?

[Vitesse2]

Only that if you don't post you'll eventually get bounced off! Although in your case I'm sure Felix would make an exception ....

You can set up the forum to navigate it in English, BTW.

[Darren Galpin]

OK, done. Some interesting pictures, and even a map of La Tablada.

[humphries]

Darren

I've let my subscription to MotorSport lapse so I am not sure how much detail was reported on the Argentine races you mention.

From my records the 1923 race on the circuit of La Tablada, Cordoba was the first of a series of races organised by the Asociacion Sportiva Audax Cordoba usually with the race title "Gran Premio Audax Cordoba". Race titles were anything but consistent in South America! The VIII and last was in 1931. The 1925 race was stopped and declared null and void when two drivers had fatal accidents. The race distance was 28 laps of the 18.050 km circuit, approximately 500km.

The 1928 race mentioned was the III Gran Premio Provincia de Sante Fe and organised by the AC Esperanza. It was held four times from 1926-1929 on a 18.797km circuit 1927-29, although the 1926 event was also the IX Copa Kade and held in two stages from Rosario to Santa Fe and back. Either a shortened version or a circuit in the same area called the Circuito los Toboganes (2.68 km) was used from 1948 to 1960 for MN racing.

John

[Darren Galpin]

John - there wasn't a lot on the races as they were focussing on the cars. What is MN racing by the way?

[humphries]

MN is my abbreviation for Mecanica Nacional, two categories of racing cars using American engines in self-built chassis or in old Maseratis, Bugattis etc. Stirling Moss collided with one during the Buenos Aires GP back in 1958.

[Boniver]

Esperanza
14-nov 1926 GP de Santa Fe FL . . Bossola Bugatti .
5-sep 1927 GP de Santa Fe FL . . Bucci Hudson .
9-aug 1928 GP de Santa Fe FL . . Bucci Hudson .
15-sep 1929 GP de Santa Fe FL . . Milone Bugatti .

[Boniver]

. . . Cordoba La Tablada - road


12-okt 1923 GP de Cordoba Arg . Artagaveytia Hudson
1-jun 1924 Mar Las Plata Arg . Duggan Packard
12-okt 1924 Premio Audax Arg . Duggan Hudson
26-apr 1925 Premio Audax Arg . cancelled acc ,
10-nov 1926 Premio Audax FL . Bossola Bugatti
24-apr 1927 GP de Cordoba FL . Bucci Hudson
4-nov 1928 Premio Audax FL . Estanguet Bugatti
20-okt 1929 Premio Audax FL . Zatuscek Mercedes
, 1930 Premio Audax FL . Zatuscek Mercedes



12-dec 1936 GP de Cordoba FL . Zatuszek Mercedes
3-jan 1937 GP de Mar del Plata mono , Arzani Alfa Romeo
9-jan 1938 GP de Mar del Plata mono , Nasi Alfa Romeo

10-mrt 1940 GP de Mar del Plata mono , Canziani Alfa Romeo GP

[humphries]

Boniver

Unfortunately, or fortunately, I have a mass of newspaper and magazine reports on races held in Argentina in the Twenties and Thirties. Quite when I'm going to sort them all out I just don't know.

However the races held at Cordoba are a real hotch-potch. Leaving aside races at Mar del Plata, the Premio Audax in 1927 was won by Jorge Perin on 9 Oct with a Bugatti 35C. The race you mention is Gran Premio Cordoba held on the 38.042 km circuit Alberti-Calera-Yoccina-Alberti. The 1930 race is still a bit of a mystery and I am awaiting confirmation as to the winner. A series of Standard Car races were also held on the La Tablada circuit and some of these races have become tangled up with the racing car events. On the 10 Oct 1931 Domingo Bucci won with his Hudson.

The Gran Premio Cordoba was held on the La Tablada circuit in 1936, but the first GP Cordoba was held in 1926 on a 8.42km Autodromo circuit. These races were organised by the AC Cordoba.

Meanwhile the Audax Club had organised other races on the Circuito Cumbres Chicas in 1920 and possibly 1916 and a race from Cordoba to Villa Maria and back in 1922.

From a historian's point of view it is a relief that in 1934 racing cars were banned from racing on the flat open roads of the BA province and in the following year the era of circuits in towns and parks began with the European thoroughbreds dominating. It is a lot easier to follow the lineage thereafter.

This poster reserves the right to contradict all this!!

John

[Ray Bell]

The Packard sounds interesting...

All of it sounds interesting, actually, and the Hudsons winning at that early stage too. This is my kind of turn, what chance is there of pictures?

[Roger Clark]

[Ray Bell]

Racing Hudsons, riding mechanics and crowd control!

This is all too much to expect... thanks Roger...

[Nanni Dietrich]

....

ElThe 1928 race mentioned was the III Gran Premio Provincia de Sante Fe and organised by the AC Esperanza. It was held four times from 1926-1929 on a 18.797km circuit 1927-29, although the 1926 event was also the IX Copa Kade and held in two stages from Rosario to Santa Fe and back. Either a shortened version or a circuit in the same area called the Circuito los Toboganes (2.68 km) was used from 1948 to 1960 for MN racing.

John

Hi John, according to the Argentine newspaper "Santa Fe", issue of Monday, 15 November 1926, page 1, the 1926 edition of the Gran Premio Provincia de Santa Fe was held in the 18,797-kilometer oval dirt course which was used in 1927/29 (Ernesto Bossola in a Bugatti was the winner). This is confirmed by Spanish newspaper El Mundo Deportivo, issue of 12 December 1926, page 4.
Possibly the Rosario-Santa Fe and back public roads course was used for another event in the season.

[David McKinney]

I'm confused - isn't John's post saying the same?

[BochaB]

Hi John, according to the Argentine newspaper "Santa Fe", issue of Monday, 15 November 1926, page 1, the 1926 edition of the Gran Premio Provincia de Santa Fe was held in the 18,797-kilometer oval dirt course which was used in 1927/29 (Ernesto Bossola in a Bugatti was the winner). This is confirmed by Spanish newspaper El Mundo Deportivo, issue of 12 December 1926, page 4.
Possibly the Rosario-Santa Fe and back public roads course was used for another event in the season.

OK, This is my first post. However I understand English my writing is nos so good, so Ihope yo could understand me.
My name is Bocha and I live exactly un Esperanza, provincia (state) of Santa Fe (Argentina). That is becasuse that races were called GRAN PREMIO DE SANTA FE.
Between 1926 and 1929 those races were hold in the oval circuit located at the south of de town. That dirt track was about 18,xxx km per lap, with straights of 7.km each one an two semi-circle curves. Was a semi-permanent track performed over public roads.
That circuit has no other name than "The Oval" and was performed by ESPERANZA AUTOMOVIL CLUB, and not lasted more than 1930, neither the circuit nor the club.
Afterwards, near 1945 born ESPERANZA MOTOR CLUB, and establish a new circuit, also a dirt track, but permanent and performed according actual features. Only 2.648 m per lap, three curves of diferents radius, and was located at the north of the city. This was called LOS TOBOGANES on account of the waves configurating the geographical features of the site, however we live in a plain land, properly "the pampa".
I think I have all the information you need. And I should be glad if I can help you. I have pictures, storys, satellital images as several facts about both tracks.
My main interest is searching and learning about, cars, races, engines and every thing related to it.
I have published several atricles about this matter, in Spanish.
Here you can find a Google image actual view of Los Toboganes, (that was shortened near year 2000) and my article related to it: www.automovilsport.com/historia/toboganes/nota.html, where you can see the old outline (yellow) and the actual scketch

[James Page]

I have come across conflicting reports on some Argentinian events from this period, and was hoping that someone here could clear it up for me.

 

Previous posts have discussed the road-race that was run over two stages - Rosario to Santa Fe and back. I have that as being the 1927 Copa Kade, won by Bucci's Hudson. Other sources have it taking place in 1926 and being won by Bossola.

 

Also, I have Bucci finishing third in the 1929 Gran Premio Nacional, but Darren Galpin's excellent site has Blanco in that position, with no mention of Bucci.

 

Any help gratefully received...

[David McKinney]

Bucci won the Copa Kade on 6/1/26 (and also in 1925 and 1927). Bossola won the Gran Premio Provincia de Santa Fe, on a different course, on 14/11/26

Bucci retired in the 1929 Gran Premio, and it was indeed Joaquín Blanco who placed third

[James Page]

Thanks David.

 

In which case, I have an incorrect year for when Bucci borrowed his old 'Bestium' Hudson special (which he'd previously sold) to finish third in the Gran Premio. Perhaps 1933, shortly before he died?

[David McKinney]

No, he didn't take part in the 1933 Gran Premio

He had driven a non-Bestium Hudson in the 1930 race, another new Hudson in 1931, and a new Chrysler-engined car in 1932

[James Page]

Hmm... In that case, perhaps the year is correct and it's just the result that is wrong.

 

Thanks again, David.