25.03.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc u/s or s/c Event Two 850cc s/c & 1100cc u/s (two heats) Event Three 850cc s/c Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 1500cc u/s (two heats) Event Six 1500cc u/s or s/c Event Seven 1500cc in any trim (ie Formule Libre) 13.05.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One MG Midgets & Austin 7s u/s Event Two MG Magnas, Wolseley Hornets, Singer Nines and Rileys other than Brooklands models Event Three 850cc in any trim Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 850cc s/c & 1100cc u/s Event Six 1500cc u/s Event Seven 1500cc u/s or s/c 19.08.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (9 races) Event One 850cc Sports Cars Event Two MG Magnas, Wolseley Hornets, Singer Nines and Rileys other than Brooklands models Event Three 850cc s/c or u/s Event Four 1500cc u/s Sports cars Event Five 850cc s/c, 1100cc u/s Event Six 1500cc s/c or u/s Event Seven 1500cc s/c or 2500cc u/s Event Eight 3000cc u/s or 2500cc s/c Event Nine 3000cc u/s or s/c 07.10.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) Event One 850cc Event Two 1100cc Event Three 1500cc u/s Event Four Invitation, up to 3000cc Event Five 3000cc Event Six 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s xx.04.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc u/s Event Two 850cc s/c Event Three 1100cc Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 1500cc Event Six 3000cc Event Seven 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s 12.05.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc u/s Event Two 850cc s/c Event Three 1100cc Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five Not specified: probably 1500cc s/c Event Six 3000cc Handicap Event Seven Not specified: probably 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s xx.xx.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc Event Two 1100cc u/s Event Three 3000cc Handicap Event Four 1500cc u/s (2 heats) Event Five 1500cc Event Six 3000cc Class Handicap Event Seven 3000cc Handicap (2 heats) 18.08.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc Event Two 1100cc u/s Event Three 3000cc Handicap Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 1500cc Event Six 3000cc Class Handicap Event Seven 3000cc Handicap 06.10.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (3 races) 1500cc Handicap Donington Park Trophy Nuffield Trophy 11.05.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc Handicap Event Two 3500cc Handicap Event Three 1500cc Handicap Event Four 3500cc Event Five 1500cc Event Six 1500cc Ladies' Race Event Seven 3500cc Handicap 13.07.35 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (3 races) Junior Handicap 1500cc Handicap Senior Handicap 4000cc Handicap Nuffield Trophy Handicap xx.08.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) Event One 850cc Handicap Event Two 3500cc Handicap Event Three 1500cc Handicap Event Four 3500cc Handicap Event Five 1500cc Event Six 3500cc Handicap 03.10.35 Donington Donington Grand Prix (1 race) Donington Grand Prix 750 kg racing cars xx.xx.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc Handicap Event Two 3500cc Handicap Event Three 1500cc Handicap Event Four 3500cc Handicap Event Five 1500cc Event Six 3500cc Handicap Heat 1 Event Seven 3500cc Handicap Heat 2 04.04.36 Donington British Empire Trophy meeting (1 race) British Empire Trophy Handicap 09.05.36 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) Event One 850cc Event Two 5000cc Handicap Event Three 1500cc Handicap Event Four 5000cc Handicap Event Five 1500cc Event Six 5000cc Handicap 04.07.36 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (3 races) Junior Handicap 1500cc Senior Handicap 5000cc Nuffield Trophy Handicap 29.08.36 Donington JCC 200 Miles (1 race) JCC 200 Miles Handicap 03.10.36 Donington Donington Grand Prix (1 race) Donington Grand Prix 750 kg racing cars 10.04.37 Donington British Empire Trophy meeting (? races) British Empire Trophy 24.04.37 Crystal Palace Coronation Trophy meeting (? races) Coronation Trophy 1500cc racing cars 12.05.37 Donington Coronation Trophy meeting (4 races) Coronation Handicap race car handicap ? ? ? 29.05.37 Donington UH&ULMC meeting (11 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 12.06.37 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (2 races) Nuffield Trophy ? 10.07.37 Donington BOC/VSCC meeting (10 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 17.07.37 Crystal Palace London Grand Prix meeting (? races) London Grand Prix scratch race car handicap 24.07.37 Donington D&DMC President's Trophy D&DMC President's Trophy 12 hours sports car race 14.08.37 Crystal Palace Grand Composite meeting (? races) Sydenham Trophy scratch race car handicap Sydenham Plate sports car handicap 28.08.37 Donington JCC 200 Miles JCC 200 Miles 04.09.37 Donington RAC Tourist Trophy RAC Tourist Trophy 04.09.37 Donington Donington Grand Prix Donington Grand Prix 750 kg racing cars 09.10.37 Crystal Palace Imperial Trophy meeting (? races) Imperial Trophy scratch race car handicap 02.04.38 Crystal Palace Coronation Trophy meeting (? races) Coronation Trophy scratch race car handicap 09.04.38 Donington British Empire Trophy meeting (? races) British Empire Trophy 14.05.38 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) Coronation Trophy race car handicap ? ? ? ? ? 21.05.38 Crystal Palace Grand Composite meeting (4 races) Sydenham Trophy scratch race car handicap Sydenham Plate sports car handicap ? motor-cycle race ? side-car race 25.06.38 Crystal Palace London Grand Prix meeting (? races) London Grand Prix scratch race car handicap 09.07.38 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (? races) Nuffield Trophy 13.08.38 Crystal Palace Crystal Palace Cup meeting (? races) Crystal Palace Cup scratch race car handicap Crystal Palace Plate sports car handicap 03.09.38 Donington RAC Tourist Trophy RAC Tourist Trophy 08.10.38 Crystal Palace Imperial Trophy meeting (? races) Imperial Trophy scratch race car handicap Imperial Plate sports car handicap 10.07.38 Donington UHCC meeting (9 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 22.10.38 Donington Donington Grand Prix Donington Grand Prix 3000cc racing cars xx.xx.38 Donington VSCC meeting (11 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? xx.xx.38 Donington SSCC meeting (12 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 01.04.39 Donington British Empire Trophy meeting (? races) British Empire Trophy race car handicap 15.04.39 Crystal Palace Frazer Nash BMW & Vintage CC meeting (? races) Stanley Cup handicap 20.05.39 Crystal Palace Sydenham Trophy meeting (4 races) Sydenham Trophy Heat 1 scratch race car handicap Sydenham Trophy Heat 2 scratch race car handicap Sydenham Plate sports car handicap Sydenham Trophy Final scratch race car handicap 20.05.39 Donington UH&ULMC meeting (6 races) Event 1 up to 1500cc sports car handicap Event 2 over 1500cc sports car handicap Event 3 unlimited sports car scratch race Event 4 unlimited racing and sports car handicap Event 5 unlimited sports car handicap Event 6 all capacity racing and sports car handicap 10.06.39 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (? races) Nuffield Trophy xx.06.39 Donington CUAC meeting (7 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 01.07.39 Crystal Palace Crystal Palace Cup meeting (5 races) Crystal Palace Cup Heat 1 scratch race car handicap Crystal Palace Cup Heat 2 scratch race car handicap Crystal Palace Plate sports car handicap Vintage Cup Crystal Palace Cup Final scratch race car handicap 08.07.39 Donington SSCC meeting (? races) 12.08.39 Donington VSCC meeting (6 races) ? ? ? ? ? ? 26.08.39 Crystal Palace Imperial Trophy meeting (5 races) Imperial Trophy Heat 1 scratch race car handicap Imperial Trophy Heat 2 scratch race car handicap Imperial Plate sports car handicap 2nd Vintage Cup Imperial Trophy Final scratch race car handicap
Pre-war British motor racing meetings
#1
Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:22
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#2
Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:23
#3
Posted 17 May 2005 - 13:06
Originally posted by Kvadrat
25.03.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One 850cc u/s or s/c Event Two 850cc s/c & 1100cc u/s (two heats) Event Three 850cc s/c Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 1500cc u/s (two heats) Event Six 1500cc u/s or s/c Event Seven 1500cc in any trim (ie Formule Libre) 13.05.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) Event One MG Midgets & Austin 7s u/s Event Two MG Magnas, Wolseley Hornets, Singer Nines and Rileys other than Brooklands models Event Three 850cc in any trim Event Four 1500cc u/s Event Five 850cc s/c & 1100cc u/s Event Six 1500cc u/s Event Seven 1500cc u/s or s/c 19.08.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (9 races) Event One 850cc Sports Cars Event Two MG Magnas, Wolseley Hornets, Singer Nines and Rileys other than Brooklands models Event Three 850cc s/c or u/s Event Four 1500cc u/s Sports cars Event Five 850cc s/c, 1100cc u/s Event Six 1500cc s/c or u/s Event Seven 1500cc s/c or 2500cc u/s Event Eight 3000cc u/s or 2500cc s/c Event Nine 3000cc u/s or s/c 07.10.33 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) Event One 850cc Event Two 1100cc Event Three 1500cc u/s Event Four Invitation, up to 3000cc Event Five 3000cc Event Six 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s xx.04.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc u/s 850cc s/c 1100cc 1500cc u/s 1500cc 3000cc 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s 12.05.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc u/s 850cc s/c 1100cc 1500cc u/s Not specified: probably 1500cc s/c 3000cc Handicap Not specified: probably 1500cc s/c 2500cc u/s xx.xx.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc 1100cc u/s 3000cc Handicap 1500cc u/s (2 heats) 1500cc 3000cc Class Handicap 3000cc Handicap (2 heats) 18.08.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc 1100cc u/s 3000cc Handicap 1500cc u/s 1500cc 3000cc Class Handicap 3000cc Handicap 06.10.34 Donington D&DMC meeting (3 races) 1500cc Handicap Donington Park Trophy Nuffield Trophy xx.xx.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc Handicap 3500cc Handicap 1500cc Handicap 3500cc Handicap 1500cc 3500cc Handicap Heat 1 3500cc Handicap Heat 2 11.05.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (7 races) 850cc Handicap 3500cc Handicap 1500cc Handicap 3500cc 1500cc 1500cc Ladies' Race 3500cc Handicap 13.07.35 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (3 races) 1500cc Handicap ("Junior Handicap") 4000cc Handicap ("Senior Handicap") Nuffield Trophy Handicap xx.08.35 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) 850cc Handicap 3500cc Handicap 1500cc Handicap 3500cc Handicap 1500cc 3500cc Handicap 03.10.35 Donington Donington Grand Prix Donington Grand Prix 750 kg racing cars 04.04.36 Donington British Empire Trophy meeting (1 race) British Empire Trophy Handicap 09.05.36 Donington D&DMC meeting (6 races) 850cc 5000cc Handicap 1500cc Handicap 5000cc Handicap 1500cc 5000cc Handicap 04.07.36 Donington Nuffield Trophy meeting (3 races) 1500cc Junior Handicap 5000cc Senior Handicap Nuffield Trophy Handicap 29.08.36 Donington JCC 200 Miles JCC 200 Miles Handicap 03.10.36 Donington Donington Grand Prix Donington Grand Prix 750 kg racing cars
#4
Posted 17 May 2005 - 13:09
Originally posted by Kvadrat
Brooklands is almost unknown for me, but I'm going to research it's history.
Good luck! (You'll need it ..... )
#5
Posted 17 May 2005 - 13:19
#6
Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:28
It seems that there were many minor events at Brooklands. I've seen a lot references to them in Hulton, Corbis and British Pathe archives.
#7
Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:10
Stay away from Brooklands - or at least the minor meetings - much of what happened at those is so trivial as to be totally inconsequential.
As examples: in 1927 there was an Alvis Day, run by Henly's Garages. Among the events was a "Stopping and Starting Race", won by one WH Green, who had earlier won the "Historic Handicap". There was also a "Stopping and Starting Race" at the Middlesex County AC meeting the same year. Then there was the Lagonda Fete, where they had a "Slow-running Race"!
There are Long Handicaps, Short Handicaps, Lightning Long Handicaps, Lightning Short Handicaps, 50-mile Handicaps, Impromptu Handicaps, Sealed Speed Handicaps, Winners' Handicaps, even Disabled Drivers' Handicaps (not exactly a PC name these days). Then there are Sweepstake Handicaps, Match Races, Ladies' Races, Acceleration Plates, hillclimbs, speed trials ....
#8
Posted 18 May 2005 - 14:12
Originally posted by Vitesse2
Good luck! (You'll need it ..... )
With all due respect to Kvadrat, I think he'd be duplicating Bill Boddy's immense efforts at long distance and from a starting point 60-odd years too late. And, as has been said further down the thread, so much that happened at Brooklands was footling and unimportant - and is still documented at length in WB's book.
Note that this isn't an attack on WB's scholarship - but I did find that his lack of perspective and the even light he casts over every race at the Track, be it the JCC Double Twelve or be it a match race between two near-forgotten amateurs, made his Brooklands history tougher going than it might otherwise have been.
Brooklands is a project that (IMHO) has been done fairly thoroughly. What it needs (as far as the community at large is concerned) is synthesis rather than analysis, an attempt to draw out the influences it had on the rest of the racing scene rather than trivia about every Ladies' Short Handicap.
#9
Posted 18 May 2005 - 14:36
WB's book is a monumental work of scholarship/labour of love (delete according to taste). But it's so frustrating! He must have had the information at his fingertips, but (for example) he seldom gives an exact date for anything. That's also true of his book on Montlhéry. So, if you want the stats for a race, you still need to plough through volumes of old magazines.
He also makes the assumption that everyone reading his book knows exactly what a Lightning Long Handicap was (I do, but only now I've invested in Tony Hutchings' excellent monograph). Having read that twice so far, I now have a better idea of what was going on, but I still don't think I've fully grasped it.
Brooklands was, to a great extent, a world of its own upon which the real world only occasionally impinged. Equally, Brooklands reached out to the world, sometimes in surprising ways. A couple of weeks ago, a local Sunday paper published a picture of Hornsted's 15 litre "Big Black Benz" taken in 1913 at what appears to be a beach race at Weymouth! The mind boggles .....
#10
Posted 18 May 2005 - 14:43
#11
Posted 18 May 2005 - 14:53
As Pete and Vitesse say, don't try to replicate what has been published and what is waiting to be published;life is too short!!
John
#13
Posted 18 May 2005 - 19:06
#14
Posted 18 May 2005 - 20:56
Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Any chance you could scan the article Vitesse? I'd be interested to take a look.
Short answer is - no!
It's a bit more than an article - I described it as a monograph, but perhaps thesis would be better! There are 105 A4 pages of text and 121 illustrations, mostly full-page, showing every track layout ever used and reproducing some of the entry lists and other documents to clarify the text.
A work of genius. Thirty-five quid, but worth every penny.
Originally posted by GIGLEUX
Please Richard, what is a Lightning Long Handicap?
It's like a Lightning Short Handicap - but longer!
Seriously, I'll answer that later, Jean-Maurice!
#15
Posted 18 May 2005 - 22:08
Lightning races were limited to only the fastest cars: originally competitors had to be capable of a flying lap of at least 90mph but this was dropped in 1922 in favour of a minimum capacity of 1500cc. There was a separate Lightning Finishing Line, 100 yards before the Special Short. As speeds increased, so it became obvious that it was becoming difficult for cars to pull up in the Finishing Straight, so Lightning races were shifted to start and finish on the Railway Straight in 1924. As above, Lightning Shorts were one lap, Lightning Longs were two laps.
#16
Posted 18 May 2005 - 23:05
#17
Posted 19 May 2005 - 03:54
Please, advise which books on the subject I must have.
#18
Posted 19 May 2005 - 08:26
He's written several other Brooklands books, including a history of the JCC 200, Brooklands Giants, Aero-engined cars at Brooklands etc etc.
None of them come cheap and all are out of print except "Brooklands: The Complete Motor Racing History".
The monograph I mentioned is "The Administration of Racing at Brooklands", published by the Brooklands Society.
For a good introduction to Brooklands, I'd recommend PJ Wallace's "Brooklands", which was part of the Ballantine Illustrated History of the Car (Special Volume 1) and published in 1971.
#19
Posted 19 May 2005 - 09:44
In a Short Handicap, competitors completed one lap, passing the Fork and then racing up the Finishing Straight to the Special Short Finishing Line - distance "about 5¾ miles". For a Long Handicap they completed 2 laps - distance "about 8½ miles".
I think you description of "Shorts" and "Longs" is somewhat over-simplified. As a lap was 2.767 miles, a race of 81/2 miles has to be more than 2 laps!!
Sometime in the 1920s the organisers realised that the Finishing Straight was too short for cars to pull up safely, so the finish was (generally) moved to the Railway Straight - about as far away from the spectators gathered in the main viewing area as you could manage. I woder if anyone knows why they did not finish at the Fork and slow down around the Members banking. That way spectators could have had a much better view.
To quote from a 1935 programme, at that time, a Short was 6 1/2 miles, starting at the Pond, doing 2 complete laps and finishing on Railway Straight, ie abot 2 1/2 laps. A Long was 3 1/2 laps or about 9 miles.
RAP
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#20
Posted 19 May 2005 - 10:44
Originally posted by RAP
Vitesse
I think you description of "Shorts" and "Longs" is somewhat over-simplified. As a lap was 2.767 miles, a race of 81/2 miles has to be more than 2 laps!!
Sometime in the 1920s the organisers realised that the Finishing Straight was too short for cars to pull up safely, so the finish was (generally) moved to the Railway Straight - about as far away from the spectators gathered in the main viewing area as you could manage. I woder if anyone knows why they did not finish at the Fork and slow down around the Members banking. That way spectators could have had a much better view.
To quote from a 1935 programme, at that time, a Short was 6 1/2 miles, starting at the Pond, doing 2 complete laps and finishing on Railway Straight, ie abot 2 1/2 laps. A Long was 3 1/2 laps or about 9 miles.
RAP
Sorry - not so much over-simplified as badly phrased. A better attempt:
In a Short Handicap, competitors started at the Pond, passing the Fork and then going once round the track before returning to the Fork and entering the Finishing Straight to finish at the Special Short Finishing Line, which was 250 yards before the usual Long Finishing Line. In a Long Handicap they passed the Fork twice, doing two complete laps from that point before entering the Finishing Straight.
The distances were quoted from a 1911 programme - Tony Hutchings makes the point that Brooklands had already been accurately measured to within about six inches!
The exact figures, measured on the 50 foot line for cars -
Pond Start plus one lap to Special Short: 5.565891 miles
Pond Start plus two laps to Special Short: 8.332769 miles
Pond Start plus one lap to Lightning: 5.509073 miles
Pond Start plus two laps to Lightning: 8.275951 miles
#21
Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:10
#22
Posted 01 June 2005 - 09:29
WB is not getting any younger; have any steps been taken to make sure that his archives (which must be pretty monumental) are preserved for posterity?
#23
Posted 26 December 2014 - 11:26
Amen to that, Pete.
WB's book is a monumental work of scholarship/labour of love (delete according to taste). But it's so frustrating! He must have had the information at his fingertips, but (for example) he seldom gives an exact date for anything. That's also true of his book on Montlhéry. So, if you want the stats for a race, you still need to plough through volumes of old magazines.
He also makes the assumption that everyone reading his book knows exactly what a Lightning Long Handicap was (I do, but only now I've invested in Tony Hutchings' excellent monograph). Having read that twice so far, I now have a better idea of what was going on, but I still don't think I've fully grasped it.
Brooklands was, to a great extent, a world of its own upon which the real world only occasionally impinged. Equally, Brooklands reached out to the world, sometimes in surprising ways. A couple of weeks ago, a local Sunday paper published a picture of Hornsted's 15 litre "Big Black Benz" taken in 1913 at what appears to be a beach race at Weymouth! The mind boggles .....
Perving on Fiona Bruce tonight watching Antiques Roadshow...Basic, Better, Best...a Postcard was valued at 100 pounds as it was considered rare...Filmed at the Stukeley Family home who have lived there for a 1000 years...
http://www.hartlandabbey.com/Abbey.htm
The 15 litre "Big Black Benz" taken in 1913 at Weymouth?
[EDIT: interestingly, that looks like a Flag bottom right]
Edited by 275 GTB-4, 26 December 2014 - 11:50.