97 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

I believe that there was discussion at the time of the desire to have an American driver to help Honda's sales in that country...

Also, from memory, it was accepted that Honda wanted the inexperienced driver to take the heat away from them not winning out of the box. They were, after all, achieving dominance in motorcycles.

[HDonaldCapps]

Michael, I heard a version of the Dodger Stadium story, but it did not include Mr. Honda attending the event, but rather his visit to LA coming soon afterwards. The American Honda folks already had Bucknum on their list of drivers to keep an eye on, and when Mr. Honda asked how they were doing on obtaining a driver, they told him about Bucknum. This seemed to strike a chord with him and they then made the approach. I heard this in the 1970s, maybe from HNM III or someone else out on The Coast. I cannot vouch for it, only pass it on.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Also, from memory, it was accepted that Honda wanted the inexperienced driver to take the heat away from them not winning out of the box. They were, after all, achieving dominance in motorcycles.

Perhaps not so much inexperienced as completely unheard of on Europe?

[humphries]

On 3 May 1964 Ronnie Bucknum, on one of a number of visits to Japan in 1964, drove a works Honda S600 in a supporting race for the second Grand Prix meeting at Suzuka; he won easily.

According to Motoring News Bucknum was approached by the US Honda Importers two days prior to the Sebring race and asked if he was interested in carrying out development work on the F1 car with the possibility of a drive. Everything went well and despite Honda having a file of letters from European drivers offering their services they stuck with Bucknum who was surprised and delighted to find himself in a Formula One car, for his first single-seater race, at the old Nurburgring of all places!! [B] he had a limp after falling off his scrambler Honda motorbike!

John

[911]

The story is in a book called, Conquest of Formula 1, by Christopher Hilton. It talks about the Honda story from Soichiro's beginnings to the 1989 season. As I recall, Ronnie received a phone call one day and the caller asked him if he would be interested in testing an F1 car. Can you imagine that happening today? Damn, ever since I read this book, I've been waiting for that phone call!

[Ralliart]

From "American Grand Prix Racing":
Though it was widely reported in the foreign press that his experience was limited to production MGs and Austin Healeys, Bucknum had a number of overall wins in Max Balchowsky's...Ol' yeller, bettering in the process most of the lap records of (Hill, Gurney and Ginther).
"They first aapproached me early in 1964, around Sebring...Mr. Okumoto from American Honda (telephoned) and he said Honda was interested in having me test the Formula One car."
Bucknum was asked to meet Okumoto at a restaurant (and met him)..."And I ended up flying to Japan." At the airport (was)...Yoshio Nakamura.
(After a short session at Willow Springs and missing Spa and Rouen, Bucknum, his wife and Nakamura took in the British GP at Brands Hatch)..."I'd never been to Europe. I'd never raced an open wheel car...the second Formula One race I saw was the one I was in."
'64 Nurburgring qual 22nd, DNF (broken steering - metal fatigue)
'64 Zeltweg - DNS
'64 Monza qual 10th, DNF (brakes)
'64 Watkins Glen qual 14th, DNF (overheating)
'64 Mexico City - DNS
Phil Hill is asked to join for 1965 but declines so Richie Ginther is suggested by Bucknum. Early '65 in Japan testing accident for Bucknum (metal fatigue in steering not corrected and he suffers multiple fractures on one foot)
'65 East London - DNS
'65 Monte Carlo qual 15th, DNF
'65 Spa qual 11th, DNF
'65 Clermont Ferrand qual 16th, DNF
'65 Silverstone - DNS
'65 Zandvoort - DNS
'65 Nurburgring - DNS
'65 Monza qual 6th, DNF
'65 Watkins Glen qual 12th, not classified
'65 Mexico City qual 10th - 5th
'66 Monte Carlo through Monza - DNS
'66 Watkins Glen qual 18th, DNF
'66 Mexico City qual 13th - 8th

[Macca]

ESPN Classic has been showing again the 1960s GPs that were on (and that I missed) a few months ago. During the coverage of the 1965 Dutch GP, Raymond Baxter says that there is only one Honda entered there because Bucknum has been "suspended", and that it is rumoured Phil Hill will be driving the second car at the next GP (Germany).

Can anyone shed any light on this? Bucknum did in fact return at Monza, Honda having skipped the 'Ring to improve the car, and scored points in Mexico when Ginther won, and drove for them again at the end of 1966 - so why any mention of a "suspension"? Rumour? Error?


Paul M

[old dirt]

Ronnie was a fast and very good racer. I was at the first race ever held at the Michigan International Speedway in October 1968. A 250 mile Indy car event. Ronnie won easily. That was his only Indy car victory. He was very good on the IMS. as well. Very smooth style. He deserved more victories.

[stevewf1]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I believe that there was discussion at the time of the desire to have an American driver to help Honda's sales in that country...

That's what I remember reading back then...

Mr. Honda himself was keen to enter the American passenger car market, so he felt that he needed American drivers to help that cause...

[Macca]

It is clear that Bucknum was a good driver, and also why Honda chose him in 1964..............the mystery is in the races he missed in 1965.

DSJ said in Motor Sport in his 1965 British GP report that Bucknum's entry was cancelled at the last minute; MLT wrote the Dutch GP report and said it appeared Honda would only run one car for the rest of the season, but that the story was not officially confirmed; then DSJ's article reflecting on the Italian GP in the Oct. '65 issue said there had been a lot of talk about Phil Hill replacing Bucknum.

So does anyone know if Bucknum was temporarily out of favour?


Paul M

[Doug Nye]

I believe it more likely that Honda had run out of the capability to prepare and run two adequate cars simultaneously... This is one of the reasons behind the company confining itself to providing engines to outside chassis suppliers' works teams in later years. The experience of running a Formula 1 team in-house 1964-66 had not been an altogether happy one. Nor is it right now...which is where Ross Brawn comes in.

DCN

[Alan Lewis]

Indeed. One cannot help wondering when the suits at Toyota are going to wake up and smell the coffee.

But this is the wrong forum...

APL

[JB Miltonian]

Bringing this back up because I happened to find mention of it last night in an old magazine. After Ginther finished sixth at Spa in 1965 to earn Honda's first World Championship point.....

"Ginther was anything but satisfied. This was to be his year to win, to show he was no back-up driver, yet the car was still not ready. An agonizing marital split only intensified his increasingly desperate need to succeed. Old friends had already begun to notice a change. With each failure, Ginther was becoming more impatient, more demanding, more determined - even ruthless. After neither car finished at the French Grand Prix, Ginther convinced Honda team officials that they needed to concentrate on one car, not two. Bucknam would have no ride for the next three races."

[Fiorentina 1]

A good friend of my father's hired Ronnie Bucknum to drive a Morgan in SCCA racing in California. He said that he was not only very fast but very technical and really helped sort the car out. They accomplished more in one day with Bucknum in the car then 1 season with another 'good' driver. Ronnie Bucknum's son was one of my instructors when I raced the Skip Barber series. He now races Sportscars and did the Indy 500 I think the last two years.

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum at Riverside in 1966
This was a test of the new V-12 Honda 3 Liter Formula One car.


Ronnie Bucknum holding his ears as mechanic drives Honda Formula One car away.
above photos lent site Davey Jordan - scanned for site Norma Jordon.

[Jerry Entin]

Ken Miles in Porsche with Ronnie Bucknum behind in Hollywood Sportscars MGB at Dodger Stadium races.

This race was called the class winners race: In it are: Left to right- #2 Bob Challman Lotus, directly behind Challman is Jerry Titus in a Genie Corvair, #50 Ken Miles in Otto Zipper's Porsche, #244 Rich Ericson Lotus 23, #31 Ronnie Bucknum Hollywood Sports Cars MGB and Jay Hills in Vasek's Porsche.

The following comes from Chic Vandagriff, whom Ronnie Bucknum drove his MG-B for:
This is what happened:

"We were racing at Dodger Stadium, to my knowledge up to that point Ronnie Bucknum had no contact with Honda and did not know they were there. After winning several races that day, including beating Ken Miles in a RSK Porsche.
Dodger Stadium was made for the M.G. Two days later he told me he had been approached by Honda to drive their new Formula One car and that he would be going to Japan to check it out."
photo Allen Kuhn - copyright Allen Kuhn
all research Davey Jordon - photo scanned for site Norma Jordon

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum going by the competition at Dodger Stadium races

photo lent site Cris Vandagriff collection.

[Jones Foyer]

This must be Bucknum's initial test at Suzuka, because the car pictured is the RA270 prototype car that was developed in 1963 before the RA271 he raced in Germany in 1964. The RA271 may not have been ready. This is the only picture I have ever seen with the RA270 painted with the ivory/red livery. He impressed with his first test, beating the previous driver's test times. Jack Brabham also drove the car prior to Bucknum- not sure how his times compared, but Brabham said the prototype was a dog (overbuilt and heavy).

[JimInSoCalif]

Before Ronnie Bucknum drove the MG for Hollywood Sports Cars, he raced his own Porsche Speedster. I still remember a heck of a good race at Laguna Seca between Bucknum in his Speedster and Lew Spencer driving a Morgan for the Western States Morgan Importer - a business that Lew later owned.

At Laguna, unlike many road racing circuits one can see most of the track. The cars disappear for just a bit before they reappear at the 'corkscrew' and then down the hill. It was exciting to see which of the two cars would be in the lead when they came back in view.

Cheers, Jim.

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum taking his boss Chic Vandagriff for a Victory ride.

Chic owned Hollywood Sportscars and Ronnie drove Chic's MGB that was prepared by Doane Spencer.
photo lent site Cris Vandagriff collection

[thunder427]

Jerry; with out digressing from the Ronnie Bucknum thread,the name Doane Spencer is also very 'Famous' in the Californian area, built a 'black' lakes roadster and a very Quick 55/56 Thunderbird also in 'Black', If my memory serves me correctly, (doen't Bruce Meyer Own the 'Roadster)...there is a 'side bar' story here, 'Hot Rodders' were the Backbone of the 50's/60's motorsport rev-olution in the USA, the ability to turn an inate object into something of 'Beauty-n-Speed'

[fredeuce]

Myles , Interesting observation you make about Doane Spencer.

I would be interested to learn more of the engine specs and general modifications to the MGB, given the competition it was up against.

Anyone have any information on this?

[Jerry Entin]

This comes from Chic Vandagriff:
"Doane had an old guy some where in South, Glendale (Russ Garnet) who always ground the cams, the carburetion was standard."

[fines]

Russ Garnant, perhaps? Old Ascot Speedway iron from the twenties and thirties, he.

[soubriquet]

By blindfreddie


By blindfreddie


By blindfreddie


By blindfreddie

[fines]

Perhaps a tad overrestored, but I like it!

[Barry Boor]

So do I !

[Jones Foyer]

Here's the glorious sound of those 1.5 liters of V12:



Wait for the end to hear the full revs.

[soubriquet]

As there seems to be a little interest, here are a few more shots from Motegi. I have no idea about this particular car.

[thunder427]

fines; with the greatest respect to your 'Ideals', Quote: 'perhaps a tad overrestored!!'.....as a restorer of old racing cars,...How do I half restore the car were it meets with your approval and the "customer" pays me for a job well done, be assured I've been accussed before with the 'overrstoration' line, my approach is that these 'old' cars are an "Art Form", justifying my commitment and passion.......................I think the HONDA is just beautiful, a period work of art and passion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'Form and Function

[soubriquet]

Not wishing to draw this further off-topic, or contradict anyone, I will proceed to do both ;)

If you check the cockpit photo of the RA272, you can clearly see the bodywork is well dinged up. My impression of the exhibits at Motegi is they have been serviced, cleaned up and painted, but are otherwise pretty much as they were at retirement. This is particularly true for the bikes. I have a nice shot of a 300cc RC174 six engine, and the exhausts offer proud testament that it has been well and truly up the road.

I know Motegi is a bit out of the way for most of you, but if you are ever in Tokyo and can find a day to spare, the Honda museum is a must see.

[thunder427]

soubriquet; you are 'right', lets celebrate' Ronnie Bucknum, I want to know more about the 'Sports Car era, pre-HONDA,there must be some great 'stories' still untold.........................???

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum in Ol Yaller

Haskell Wexler owned this car and Max Balchowsky was the builder and crew chief. Ronnie Bucknum won races at Riverside and Phoenix in this car. They were club races not professional races.

photo Martin Hill

[chuckbrandt]

Ronnie Bucknum had two drives in the Shelby King Cobras.

At the L.A. Times Grand Prix at Riverside 10/11/64 he piloted CM/3/63 wearing #95. Unfortunately his efforts resulted in a DNF. It was to be CM/3/63s last race for Shelby, it was the ex-Holbert car from '63 freshened up.



For the Pacific Grand Prix at Laguna Seca 10/18/64 Ronnie climbed into CM/4/64 with #195. He finished 6th in Heat 1 and 4th in Heat 2.



Chuck

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum next to Indy Eagle at Michigan International Speedway.
In 1968 Ronnie Bucknum won the Indy car race held at Michigan International Speedway
Ronnie Bucknum raced at Indy from 1968-1970, with a best finish being 15th in 1970.

photo lent site Davey Jordon collection.

[fines]

This, btw, is the Paul Newman Eagle - the very car used in the filming of "Speedway".

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum at Indy in 1970.
Car is called MVS Morris Ford
Ronnie Bucknum finished 15th. Race won by Al Unser.
photo Indianapolis Motor Speedway Archives
photographer unknown

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum at Indy 1969
Car is called Weinberger Homes Eagle/Offy
Ronnie finished 30th with engine trouble. Race won by Mario Andretti.

photographer unknown

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum coming up on Moises Solana at Mexico City in 1965.

Ronnie qualified 10th and finished 5th in this race. It was won by Ronnie Bucknum's teammate, Richie Ginther. Moises Solana had qualified 9th in the guest Lotus and was a DNF in the race.

photo Moises Solana collection

[B Squared]

That is a great shot! I really enjoy seeing your contributions.

Brian

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum in 1971 at Daytona in Ferrari 512S
Tony Adamowicz was Ronnie's co-driver in this race.

Brian: Glad you are enjoying this thread.


photo Bob Purgason

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum and car owner Chic Vandagriff
This was the Hollywood Sportscar Austin Healey, the car was prepared by Doane Spencer.

photo Cris Vandagriff collection.

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum on showroom floor at Hollywood Sportscars.


Ronnie Bucknum inside Austin Healey.


photos lent site Cris Vandagriff collection.

[Jerry Entin]

Otto Zipper and Ronnie Bucknum and Sam Posey.


photo Louis Galanos - copyright 2009 Louis Galanos.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 24 October 2009 - 15:53.

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum at Daytona in 1971 in the Ferrari 512S.
Believe it or not Ronnie Bucknum and his co-driver Tony Adamowicz finished a fine 2nd in this race. Imagine if they had the rear body clip where they would have finished. Talk about your lack of down force.

photo Louis Galanos - copyright 2009 Louis Galanos

[Jones Foyer]

One of the more interesting stories of Ronnie Bucknum's involvement with Honda F1 in the 1960's comes in 1968 when Honda had decided to pull the plug on the Grand Prix venture (in the interest of moving key engineers and money into the passenger car development program, also the black cloud of the death of Jo Schlesser probably contributed).

At the end 1968, the RA301 V-12 with aerofoils was in Mexico and Watkins Glen for races. It was decided that the car could be tested at Indy. John Surtees apparently did not have the proper licensing to do the test, so Ronnie Bucknum (who had not driven for Honda since the 1966 season) was called upon to do the test.

This article shows pictures of the occasion, the car outfitted with slicks. I've heard that the car lapped fast enough to be on the front row with the Lotus Turbines. Considering the reliability (poor) of the Honda grand prix cars of that era, I'm sure it would have done well...but may not have finished if it had the opportunity to actually race.

I wish I could read Japanese!

Article from Honda site

As a footnote, Ronnie's son, Jeff drove a Honda powered IRL car at Indy decades later.

[Jerry Entin]

Ronnie Bucknum at Daytona in the 512 Ferrari in 1971
The #23 NART Ferrari 512S of Tony Adamowicz and Ronnie Bucknum is about to give way to the #21 NART Ferrari 312P/71 of Nestor Garcia-Veiga and Luigi Chinetti, Jr. on the straight between turns two and three at the 1971 24 Hours of Daytona. Ronnie Bucknum lost the bodywork on the high banks when the rear panel blew off at high speed. It was a miracle he didn't crash. Despite having to pit for repairs and a new body panel the car managed to finish second. This was the best finish for this particular Ferrari 512. The car was recently fully restored to look like it did at Daytona in 71.

Photo Louis Galanos- copyright 2009 Louis Galanos
all research Louis Galanos

Edited by Jerry Entin, 24 October 2009 - 15:54.

[HistoryFan]

Were there no possibilities for Bucknum to stay in F1 with another team than Honda?

 

And what drivers where rumoured to drive for Honda in 1964?

Edited by HistoryFan, 24 February 2014 - 16:30.