406 replies to this topic

[BRG]

I have to admit to being guilty of watching BBC’s Top Gear. I know, I know, we all said that we should never watch it again after the abuse that they committed to a Jaguar C-type, but I am weak…

Anyway, despite the above-mentioned abuse, in the latest edition Jeremy Clarkson was driving a 250F as an introduction to a test of the new Maserati MC12 (which IMO challenges Bentley for the title of the fastest lorry in the world). To his credit, Jezza drove the 250F with some vigour - managing to spin it) - and clearly with great relish and enjoyment. He was also fairly respectful about the car, so there is some hope for the old reprobate yet. He thengave the MC12 plenty of abuse, both on the track and verbally, both of which I think it probably deserves, but that’s another story!

I just wondered who was the trusting soul who lent Top Gear such a valuable car? Anyone have any idea?

[Patrick Fletcher]

Are CM4 or 5 still for sale - serious doubt that it would be a real one, but their lips would be sealed!

[llmaurice]

I think Clarkson is the epitome of a pratt who can only drive "supercars " because they don't expose his shortcomings in the same way that your average family saloon would .
The current programme format is surely produced for 16 year olds !

[ensign14]

Nick Mason? Does he have a 250F?

[Stuart_Forrest]

He does, and Ten Tenths do a reasonable amount of work with the BBC. I'm sure that it would've been his. I don't know that too many other 250F owners would let JC out in their cars. I quite enjoyed the piece - Jeremy made inducing controlled oversteer look remarkably easy. He also proved the point that very tall blokes look odd in cars such as this.

[Pils1989]

(what happened to the C-Type?)

[Rockford]

Clarkson, his two simpering underlings and the sychophantic studio backdrop morons only serve to give a useful insight into how nazi rallies would've been run. How this complete cow-pat of a programme is allowed on public service television is beyond me.

Bring back William Woolard.

And what happened to Sue Baker and Chris Goffey (father of Supergrass drummer Danny) ?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Rockford
Clarkson, his two simpering underlings and the sychophantic studio backdrop morons only serve to give a useful insight into how nazi rallies would've been run. How this complete cow-pat of a programme is allowed on public service television is beyond me.

Maybe the fact that it is by far the most popular programme on BBC2?

It's a guilty pleasure for me, every time I watch it I feel like I am torturing a public transport spokesman.

[Allen Brown]

"foul-mouthed would-be bullying prat". True. "two simpering underlings". Check. "sychophantic studio backdrop morons". Check.

And you forgot to say that he's anti-environment and jerrymanders every contest to make sure he wins.

But I still think it's one of the most entertaining things on TV.

Sorry!

Allen

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Pils1989
(what happened to the C-Type?)

Here's what

[Pils1989]

(Thank you!)

[stuartbrs]

Who is Stig??

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Stuart_Forrest
He also proved the point that very tall blokes look odd in cars such as this.

This (not quite as) tall bloke is at least impressed he could fit in a 250F.

We get it here, although ages alter, and I'm amazed at the non car people I know who make watching it a Sunday ritual and are amazed I don't.

I caught a recent one (by NZ standards) where JC was thrashing a diesel Jag around the Nurburgring, trying to break 10 mins.

At his last go, he did 9.59. Some pretty blonde, who seemed to work there, jumped in and in her only flying lap, did 9.12 as I recall.

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Rockford
Clarkson, his two simpering underlings and the sychophantic studio backdrop morons only serve to give a useful insight into how nazi rallies would've been run.

[Gary C]

'Who is Stig??'
Perry McCarthy.

[Pils1989]

The pretty blond lady is the talented driver of the Ring Taxi.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Mac Lark


This (not quite as) tall bloke is at least impressed he could fit in a 250F.

We get it here, although ages alter, and I'm amazed at the non car people I know who make watching it a Sunday ritual and are amazed I don't.

I caught a recent one (by NZ standards) where JC was thrashing a diesel Jag around the Nurburgring, trying to break 10 mins.

At his last go, he did 9.59. Some pretty blonde, who seemed to work there, jumped in and in her only flying lap, did 9.12 as I recall.

Classic episode. Clarkson was humiliated by the blond and took it very well. She'd been shown taking the p*ss out of his driving ability earlier in the program and had taken him round in her car to show him the line. When passengering in his car she was shown telling him there was no need to brake for certain corners and then rolling her eyes when he did. He then hacked round for two days - with littler cars flying past him on both sides - before finally breaking his 10 min target time. He tried blaming the Jag but she jumped into it and thrashed his time first time she tried.

It isn't just "non car people" who enjoy it.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Gary C
'Who is Stig??'
Perry McCarthy.

Old Stig or New Stig? The first one was "lost" off the end of an aircraft carrier. Or is Perry both Stigs?

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Other classic episodes:

The Porsche challenge: three £1400 Porsches try to get from London to Brighton. Clarkson's takes hours and arrives on a low loader.

In another such test, all three drove their chosen £500 (IIRC) cars into a brick wall at 30 mph with a rule that that they lost points for death or any broken bones. Clarkson broke his thumb!

And the "star in a moderately price car" has thrown up some great performances. The blind bloke who beat several "stars" was extraordinarily brave.

You guys don't know what you're missing.

Allen

[Darren Galpin]

Like David Soul breaking two gearboxes because the car wasn't automatic.......

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Other classic episodes:

The Porsche challenge: three £1400 Porsches try to get from London to Brighton. Clarkson's takes hours and arrives on a low loader.

In another such test, all three drove their chosen £500 (IIRC) cars into a brick wall at 30 mph with a rule that that they lost points for death or any broken bones. Clarkson broke his thumb!

And the "star in a moderately price car" has thrown up some great performances. The blind bloke who beat several "stars" was extraordinarily brave.

You guys don't know what you're missing.

Allen

Through gritted teeth, I have to agree with you, Allen. If you regard Top Gear as an entertainment programme that just happens to have some cars in it, it's fine. It's just that old gits like me would like to also see a sensible programme about cars. In today's TV climate, that's about as likely as seeing Lord Lucan riding Shergar.

If you look at other programmes on other channels, you get Top Gear clones all the way. Surely the novelty of watching someone thrashing a car with an excess of BHP over roadholding around an airfield has worn off now?

[Gilles4Ever]

The key to the show is that it is an entertaining show with cars and anyone who tries to think of it as a serious motoring show is a bit misguided.

Re the Stig - Perry was black Stig who went off the carrier - he admitted as much and said he wasn't the new Stig. Popular belief is that it is at least two different people, Sabine (German saloon car racer lady) is a very popular guess as is Graham Hill but also Jason Plato has support.

The 250F - my guess would be Nick Mason - He and JC seem to be quite close, they would have to be for Nick to give him his Enzo to test and looks like his 250F too - I wonder if that trust goes as far as letting him drive his 250GTO?

[BRG]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Re the Stig - a very popular guess is Graham Hill but also Jason Plato has support.

And the thread, as ever in TNF, veers off the track like a Star in a Reasonably Priced Car!

I doubt if the Stig is Graham Hill somehow what with him being dead and all. And isn't Plato on Channel 5's books as part of the 5th Gear crew?

As for the 250F, the betting seems to be with Nick Mason, which does make sense - celebs sticking together etc. Any other ideas? For those that didn't see it, the 250F was a red one, which should help a bit!

[Gilles4Ever]

Originally posted by BRG
I doubt if the Stig is Graham Hill somehow what with him being dead and all.

I meant Graham Hill's son, wasn't he a racing driver ;)

[David Birchall]

Living in the stix out here as I do (on an island off Vancouver, Canada) I miss a lot of motor sport and car stuff. When we became able to receive Speed channel a few years ago I thought I would be saved but NASCAR bought the station and it has been barely worth watching since. Then I discovered recently I could get 'Top Gear' on the BBC TV world service. Now, it may not be the greatest or most informed show ever but for a deprived ex-Brit like me it is wonderful! Of course, the fact that I was christened at and lived at Dunsfold while my father worked in the experimental hanger at Dunsfold airdrome may have something to do with it.
The only programs I see over here of that type have two 300lb gorillas with beer bellies and beards saying "Mah forty-nine Fawd was the best car ever built, yes siree!".
Jeremy Clarkson may seem like a **** to some but he is a breath of fresh (well, new anyway) air to me.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by llmaurice

I think Clarkson is the epitome of a pratt who can only drive "supercars " because they don't expose his shortcomings in the same way that your average family saloon would .

He drove one of our Citroen 2CVs in free practice prior to the 1990 Mondello Park 24 Hours. His height wasn't dissimilar to that of at least two of our drivers, and he had as many - if not more - laps than we did. He couldn't get within five seconds of our lap times, on the old less-than-two-miles layout...

So, can he drive supercars proficiently? Er, nah. As my brother said at the time "he couldn't drive a soapy stick up a dog's arse".

For those who do watch the programme, I suggest this: the next time you're viewing, take a lot more notice of the lighting whenever he's *driving* the cars. And the camera angles, positions, and degree of zoom in use...

The 'old' Stig was indeed Perry, but Johnny Herbert subbed for him once or twice I believe. The 'new' Stig is Ben Collins, and he's already been subbed for by Heikki Kovalainen whenever the Renault F1 was featured.

[David Lawson]

I enjoyed watching Ellen MacArthur this week in the star in a normal car lapping fastest of all the celebrities. Her driving style was very neat and tidy. She did three laps all within 0.40 sec of each other.

David

[JSF]

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
Popular belief is that it is at least two different people, Sabine (German saloon car racer lady) is a very popular

Definately not Sabine, her airbags would give it away instantly.

Jeremy didnt do too badly at the 'ring considering the circumstances, getting a good time round there is all about circuit knowledge, especially in an underpowered, overweight, softly sprung jaguar diesel. Of course it was a slow time, but not embarasingly so considering his track knowledge, he also managed not to crash, which is a trick a lot of people fail to acheive. He isnt a very skilled driver, but maybe thats what is needed on this kind of TV show anyway, as the majority of drivers arnt.

[bretonbanquet]

Originally posted by Rockford
Clarkson, his two simpering underlings and the sychophantic studio backdrop morons only serve to give a useful insight into how nazi rallies would've been run.

What a crass thing to say.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Twin Window
For those who do watch the programme, I suggest this: the next time you're viewing, take a lot more notice of the lighting whenever he's *driving* the cars. And the camera angles, positions, and degree of zoom in use...

Interesting. I don't watch very often at all. I find the programme embarrassingly schoolboy-ish to be honest - but I regularly hear all about it from colleagues at work who are into their roadcars. They make it sound like an outdoor gameshow!

The comments about Clarkson's skill behind the wheel come as no surprise. I heard years ago - from somebody who certainly knew - that his ability to get a BTCC touring car round Oulton Park and Silverstone was discernibly below the mark.

But he's there to entertain and maybe that's what he does

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David Lawson
I enjoyed watching Ellen MacArthur this week in the star in a normal car lapping fastest of all the celebrities. Her driving style was very neat and tidy. She did three laps all within 0.40 sec of each other.

David

...and seemed to be fiercely competitive and taking matters very seriously (no surprise there). I would be surprised if we didn't see her having a go at racing in something a little more potent as and when her sailing commitments permit.

[petefenelon]

I have only two things to say to people who don't like Top Gear:

(1) Nobody forces you to watch.

(2) Remember the days when it was Chris Goffey in a brown anorak telling you about diesel Montegos and where to get a cheap hazard warning triangle? What would you prefer, a bit of a laugh, or earnest consumer tedium?

[kayemod]

Originally posted by petefenelon
I have only two things to say to people who don't like Top Gear:

(1) Nobody forces you to watch.

(2) Remember the days when it was Chris Goffey in a brown anorak telling you about diesel Montegos and where to get a cheap hazard warning triangle? What would you prefer, a bit of a laugh, or earnest consumer tedium?

As ever, nail right on the head. I watch TG nearly every week, hate roughly half of it, and more or less enjoy most of the rest, but a word in support of Jeremy Clarkson. JC is a brilliant broadcaster, no-one who saw some of the non-car TV programmes he's done, like the one on Isambard Kingdom Brunel for example, could doubt that, and he's also (at times) a gifted comic writer. What the doubters should remember though, is that like all TV performers, most of the time, he's just putting on an act . What you see isn't neccesarily the real man. Anyway, he comes from the right area of the UK (Sheffield), and who would you rather be stuck in a lift with, Jeremy Clarkson or someone like Michael Winner?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by petefenelon


...and seemed to be fiercely competitive and taking matters very seriously (no surprise there). I would be surprised if we didn't see her having a go at racing in something a little more potent as and when her sailing commitments permit.

She'd probably be good in the wet.

[Don Speekingleesh]

Originally posted by Twin Window


For those who do watch the programme, I suggest this: the next time you're viewing, take a lot more notice of the lighting whenever he's *driving* the cars. And the camera angles, positions, and degree of zoom in use...

Indeed. He wrote an article several years ago (maybe around the time he left the "original" Top Gear) says how pleased he was to have finally managed to sucessfully complete a power slide. Before that all he'd ever managed to do was spin, so carefull editing was always necessary.

[MCS]

Originally posted by petefenelon
(2) Remember the days when it was Chris Goffey in a brown anorak telling you about diesel Montegos and where to get a cheap hazard warning triangle? What would you prefer, a bit of a laugh, or earnest consumer tedium?

Fair point Pete, but I didn't really watch it then either (thank God).

[flat-16]

Aside from knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, there is a suspicion in my mind that the kind of doctrine advocated by Clarkson contributes to road accidents (he’s not alone in terms of TV programming…); as an example, I quote "when driving on the road, the only thing that matters is getting in front of the person ahead of you". Next time you’re driving on black ice and have a moron 2inches from your rear bumper you might want to remember that opinions stated by those such as Clarkson in the media have no bearing on society's values…none whatsoever…after all, you don't need Murdoch's support to win an election…

Performing moronic stunts such as "doughnuts" with such a historic C-Type is continuous with an outfit devoid of respect or empathy for machinery.

Although I had my suspicions, it's good to know that the TNF members (on the whole) view Clarkson for the hollow numpty that he evidently is (no doubt followers of the "RC" group will be along in droves to defend him...).

The current low-brow incarnation of "Top Gear" has no business on a station funded by the license-payer IMO, and having the only 60 minutes devoted weekly to petrol-related activity on the Beeb occupied by such a blatantly vacuous piece of programming gives more ammunition to those who clamour for the abolition of the license fee (Well, I guess Clarkson does work for Murd(er)och…)

Does anyone really care whether a jet gets you from London to Cornwall quicker than a Jag? It must take real imagination to dream up the "races"... Nothing formulaic there...

Bring back Woolard I say - down with the vulgarian.

BTW, I've never felt comfortable with JC's programming relating to Brunel etc - it's always struck me that he's trying to improve his own image by association - a poor man's Fred Dibnah.

Justin

[MrAerodynamicist]

Given that he's a writer/presenter who happens to drive car, as opposed to a good driver who happens to write/present (that'll be Tiff...), it shouldn't be that much of a suprise he's not the worlds best driver.

Besides which, given he's one of a very select band of famous people who actually give engineering the respect it deserves, I think we can let him off the rest.

Oh, and Mansell owns Hill ;)

[jonb1]

Anybody who thinks top gear has gone downhill since the days of brown overcoats & fascinating items on how many bags of shopping can fit in the latest Fiat Panda needs their head examining. Take it for what it is, a light hearted bit of fun, meant to appeal to the masses (even those not interested in cars). In no way does it or he promote dangerous driving, he's the first to berate the simpleton townies who drive around like idiots in souped up Nova's. It's thanks to his ranting that public opinion on speed camera's has caused the government to stop their revenue crusade.

Now, how fantastic was it to see Il Leone whipping Damon's time ? Thought he was going to roll it a couple of times then, still as competitive as ever!

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by jonb1
Take it for what it is, a light hearted bit of fun, meant to appeal to the masses (even those not interested in cars)

I'm perfectly happy with that - or in my case, to leave it.
But where can I tune to these days for a serious motoring programme?

It's thanks to his ranting that public opinion on speed camera's has caused the government to stop their revenue crusade

I doubt if many of the letters in the national press have been written by Clarkson devotees

[ensign14]

Originally posted by flat-16

The current low-brow incarnation of "Top Gear" has no business on a station funded by the license-payer IMO...

The station that gives us Eastenders and Celebrity Ballroom? Top Gear is one of its higher-minded programmes.

[jonb1]

Originally posted by David McKinney

I'm perfectly happy with that - or in my case, to leave it.
But where can I tune to these days for a serious motoring programme?


I doubt if many of the letters in the national press have been written by Clarkson devotees

There's lots of those shows on Satellite and cable these days, usually presented by the ex top gear presenters They do actually manage to be serious yet no quite so dull as Top Gear of yesteryear. Discovery channel is usually pretty good, especially as they do features on cars you can actually afford!

True about the camera's, but high profile campaigners such as himself have certainly aided the cause and he never misses an opportunity to highlight the idiocy & money grabbing of the local authorities in his newspaper columns. Like it or not, he is the voice of the irate middle aged & has quite a following.

As a previous poster pointed out, I'd be more angry about my licence paying money being wasted on those bloody second rate Karaoke shows that are on all the time. However, the BBC bought Grand Prix masters & Murray back, so all is forgiven..

Now I want to see some more F1 drivers try and beat Mansell's time, I doubt anyone would get close the way he was gunning that thing!

[David Birchall]

I'm so glad I restarted this thread!

Would somebody please tell us colonials what qualifies Clarkson to run "Top Gear"?

[Kilted Wanderer]

Originally posted by David Birchall
I'm so glad I restarted this thread!

Would somebody please tell us colonials what qualifies Clarkson to run "Top Gear"?

Ratings

[ian senior]

Originally posted by petefenelon
I have only two things to say to people who don't like Top Gear:

(1) Nobody forces you to watch.

(2) Remember the days when it was Chris Goffey in a brown anorak telling you about diesel Montegos and where to get a cheap hazard warning triangle? What would you prefer, a bit of a laugh, or earnest consumer tedium?

Nowt wrong with the Montego/triangle kind of thing at all in my opinion. Sometimes we need that kind of stuff. The point I'm trying to make is that there is space for both kinds of thing, but all we get is Top Gear type "entertainment" and no proper consumer information about cars. Isn't the telly supposed to inform as well as entertain?

[James Page]

Originally posted by flat-16
The current low-brow incarnation of "Top Gear" has no business on a station funded by the license-payer IMO, and having the only 60 minutes devoted weekly to petrol-related activity on the Beeb occupied by such a blatantly vacuous piece of programming gives more ammunition to those who clamour for the abolition of the license fee (Well, I guess Clarkson does work for Murd(er)och…)

Top Gear in its previous incarnation was deadly dull - the TV equivalent of What Car? If you're going to start a list of programmes undeserving of the license fee, Top Gear would be a long way down.

As it is now, it's cracking entertainment. I'd rather see supercars getting thrashed than a hatchback group test.

It's also, in no way at all, an insight into Nazi rallies - as earlier suggested. Some people take frivolous TV programmes awfully seriously...

[kayemod]

Originally posted by James Page
Some people take frivolous TV programmes awfully seriously...

Never a truer word.

[Jerome]

Well, I adore Topgear. There's no other program that makes roll around the floor. Jeremy Clarkson doing a crashtest behind the wheel of a old Volvo and misjudging the speed of the car because his spedometer is broken...

I have stopped watching newsprogrammes, journalist programs, and started watching a whole lot of Discovery, National Geographic, and programs like Top Gear. Why? Because the persons presenting it or making the show are not taking themselves seriously... anyone who doesn't notice THAT should not be watching, that's for sure, because they will annoy the poop out of themselves

By the way: how fast was Mansell? How much quicker than Hill? And what has The Stig done in that same reasonably priced car?

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by ian senior
Nowt wrong with the Montego/triangle kind of thing at all in my opinion. Sometimes we need that kind of stuff. The point I'm trying to make is that there is space for both kinds of thing, but all we get is Top Gear type "entertainment" and no proper consumer information about cars. Isn't the telly supposed to inform as well as entertain?

TV has, as a medium, a fairly limited time allowance, which hence puts a limit on the amount of information that can be digested. At the same time, as you go down the car cost scale, the diversity of choice you need to cover to do that segment of the market justice goes up. The fact is, magazines/websites/etc with their much larger 'information space' blow TV out of the water when it comes to conveying the useful end of the market. Whenever I've watch a 'normal car' segment on any of the motoring shows, I've rarely felt anysort of real enlightenment. Token jestures don't tend to actually achieve much, so you might as well concentrate on fun, something that can be done properly in sixty minutes.

[BRG]

As this thread has risen from the dead, just to say that I agree that Top Gear isn’t a serious programme for the car-buyer and that perhaps there is an opening for that.

I have now come around to the idea that Top Gear is an entertainment show – it even won an Emmy! – not a consumer programme. It is intensely irritating sometimes, such as yesterday with Clarkson wetting himself over the ludicrously expensive and hugely ugly ‘Bugatti’ Veyron (I am so glad that Ettore is long gone and doesn’t have to see the abortion bearing his hallowed name). But at other times, like their failed attempts to kill off a Toyota Twincab pickup, it can be very amusing.

And to answer David Birchall’s question about what qualifies Clarkson to present Top Gear, surely it is his many years of service on the show? He has risen through the ranks, having started in the Woollard and Goffey brown anorak days and gradually reached the top. He is a journalist by profession, I believe. Who else would we get if not him? Sharon Osbourne maybe?