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It's amazing where you can meet motorsport people...


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#1 Gary C

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 16:11

This morning I had an appointment with my financial advisor. We got talking and at some point we drifted off the subject of money and somehow onto motorsport. I said that I had worked for FOM and also raced my own car. My advisor replied that his great-uncle used to be a racing driver, and used to drive with Stirling Moss. His name? Jack Fairman!!! Has anyone else had a randomn meeting with someone who has racing connections??

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#2 LOTI

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 16:23

I used to walk my little dog in the park behind the theatre in Chichester where I met a lady walking her two dogs, we chatted away,as you do. Some time later the park keeper mentioned that she too had motor racing connections. It's Jane Purley. off course David was a Bognor man but all the same it was some thing of a coincidence.
Loti [Irwin]

#3 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 17:01

Years ago I was rashly undertaking a long journey (Bristol - Durham) in my Ginetta G15 and stopped in a layby somewhere near Stafford just to check that nothing was leaking or about to fall off. Surprisingly, everything was still OK, but the driver of a large truck parked nearby got out to have a look at the car, and we got chatting. It turned out that he had worked as a driver for Gulf Racing in the early '70s, had been all over Europe with them, and had some fascinating stories, mainly about the rumpy-pumpy activities of some of the team drivers.

#4 Barry Boor

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 19:12

My step-daughter's partner runs a car repairing and re-spraying business. For months he told me that a customer of his used to 'be a racing driver' but he couldn't remember his name. Yeah, I thought, didn't everyone.

Then one day I finally met the guy - and it turned out to be.... Roger Nathan.

#5 h4887

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 19:15

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Years ago I was rashly undertaking a long journey (Bristol - Durham) in my Ginetta G15.


What are you trying to say there, Tim? :lol:

#6 Pils1989

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 22:35

My wife has a customer who's dad raced at Indy in the late 40s/early 50s... she doesn't remember his name but she directed him two years ago to TNF.

At school in Geneva, a guy two years younger than me, was into pro. karting. His grand father was Good Year, I think, representative in the UK and he remembered my uncle. I think I saw that school friend ten years later in a Clio V6 Trophy at Spa. I will have a look into the school yearbook.

#7 Mac Lark

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 03:43

With a week to kill before the final ever Race Of Champions my wife and I hired a Ford Fiesta to circumnavigate Wales.

Somewhere half way up Cardigan Bay we stopped at a B and B. Next morning we were loading bags into the hatch and my wife noticed the key had a slight kink to it. Her method of straightening was to put it back in the lock...

So the key snapped and we had to wait ALL DAY until the hire company delivered a replacement key. The B and B was in the country, the weather was foul and although the lady of the house was happy to provide warm food and tea, it was a wasted day. Mind numbingly so.

Which I may have mentioned to my beloved.

Soon after the key arrived, the man of the house arived home. He spotted the Williams jacket I had purchased a week or so at Thruxton and revealed he not only had the identical jacket, he was wearing it under his raincoat.

He then said 'If only I'd known - I've got motor racing videos and books galore...'

You gotta laugh

#8 Mac Lark

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 03:47

I should also mention the day I was ushered to the 'singles' section of a hotel restaurant in the States.

I noticed the adjoining 'solo diner' was already half way through his soup.

'What do you recommend Murray?'

Is that a NZ accent? he correctly detected

And then Murray Walker asked if I'd like to join him.

#9 RTH

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:18

............Advantage Lark !

#10 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 09:59

Last century - I think 1990 we cruised into a bay just north of Wellington NZ and booked into a motel called Spinnaker Bay or something similar.
Next morning when settling up our account who but Rex Flowers turned out to be mine host.
About two or three hours later after talking about his Gemini Mk3, Lotus 20, his trip to OZ and racing at the main circuits we continued on our way.

#11 subh

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:30

I live in the same city where Arrows used to be based, and where Jaguar is now (in its current guise). I had a taxi driver who had worked for both, as well as 888 in touring cars. We got onto the subject because of my 1996 Jos Verstappen t-shirt. He liked Jos and Derek Warwick, but was not impressed by the Jaguar management at that time - two or three years ago.

#12 Vicuna

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:31

Rex ran that motel for a few years.

Did you mention the Lola T4?

Probably best not to have...

#13 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:48

Originally posted by Vicuna
Rex ran that motel for a few years.

Did you mention the Lola T4?

Probably best not to have...

He mentioned it as the the worst purchase he ever made - I thought it was cool when Surtees had it here in 1963 - but it did have a short life expectancy.

#14 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:54

Originally posted by Gary C
This morning I had an appointment with my financial advisor. We got talking and at some point we drifted off the subject of money and somehow onto motorsport. I said that I had worked for FOM and also raced my own car. My advisor replied that his great-uncle used to be a racing driver, and used to drive with Stirling Moss. His name? Jack Fairman!!! Has anyone else had a randomn meeting with someone who has racing connections??


I believe David Beard's IFA has a brother who was once heavily involved in Dave Price Racing, then 2-4 Sports at Dinington ...

#15 Martin Roessler

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:04

Tim Schenken's daughter wrote an artikle about our tattoo studio in a Geelong newspaper. :lol:
and a customer's father worked as a mechanic for Peter Brock.....
cheers Marty

#16 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:09

At the time when Eric Broadley and Lola were building the disastrous F1 car that brought about his downfall, I saw him at the checkout of the nearby Huntingdon Tesco, a trolley full of weekly shopping. A bit suprised to see an F1 team principal there! I suppose it could have been the team catering supplies for Melbourne after hearing of the lack of budget!

#17 Frank S

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 20:25

Back in the early middle-lates, when I was in a position to spend a half-day meandering Southern California before showing up for work, I was testing the new set of Michelin Xs I'd gone into hock for on my A-Healey 3000 Standard. You have no doubt heard of the Ortega Highway: climbs from San Juan Capistrano, through forests and sweet roadways, over the crest and quite precipitously descends into the valley near Lake Elsinore, California.

I interrupted my downward trajectory to investigate a little group huddled in a narrow turnout with a thousand-foot drop at its edge. These were the first "hang-gliders" I had ever seen: daring young people suspending their hopes from glorified kites.

As I nosed around, nodding and grinning, I recognized one of the pilots, just before he launched himself into the void: Pete Brock, Shelby Daytona Cobra designer. His little patch of colorful nylon shrank rapidly and disappeared from view as he successfully (based on subsequent appearances) negotiated the mile or so between his take-off point and some relatively flat landing field.

I had my work cut out, trying to keep up with his "chase" vehicle, a Ford or Dodge van, on the last few sweepers to the valley floor.

--
Frank S

PS: If you didn't do the Ortega Highway back then, you are out of luck: civilization has mutilated it beyond recognition. Sigh.

#18 Lotus23

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 22:04

Frank S, wasn't Pete Brock's son injured -- or worse -- in a hang-gliding accident? Or do I have him confused with someone else?

#19 rosemeyer

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 23:49

PS: If you didn't do the Ortega Highway back then, you are out of luck: civilization has mutilated it beyond recognition. Sigh.



Ortaga hiway was one of the most wonderful roads I have ever driven on

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#20 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 01:30

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
At the time when Eric Broadley and Lola were building the disastrous F1 car that brought about his downfall, I saw him at the checkout of the nearby Huntingdon Tesco, a trolley full of weekly shopping. A bit suprised to see an F1 team principal there! I suppose it could have been the team catering supplies for Melbourne after hearing of the lack of budget!

When that land that Tesco sits on there was farm land I knew the owners quite well, (perhaps very well!). Small world but that by the by so here's my contribution-

When at a boat show with some friends I was introduced to a very attractive lady with stunning brown eyes and she mentioned that here uncle? 2nd cousin twice removed? –honestly don’t remember now, used to race cars I was smart enough to ask who was that? expecting of course that it was nobody. Alf Costanzo was the reply and she went on to tell me all about the F5000 races she used to go to and watch and the people involved. The conversation didn’t last long but it was entertaining and amusing, she was quite an extrovert and I was left with the feeling that those were good times indeed.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 09:47

Having spent a quiet evening with Alfie and his wife once, I can imagine it was a pleasant conversation with some nice revelations...

I knocked on the door of a new home one day in the course of my weekend work... the house was unoccupied, but the owners were there... because they were living in the garage out the back. So as I interviewed the guy, I couldn't help but notice the engine under the kitchen sink in the garage. I tried to identify it... no go... so I asked.

"It was made in Coventry," he said, "that should be a clue." Not to me... small four-cylinder... not alloy... not any make I'd know. So he finally told me it was a Singer engine.

He showed me more, told me how he used to race Singers and beat the MGs at Strathpine and Lowood. And so it went on, he prepared Glynn Scott's cars, worked for the Geoghegan brothers for a while, ran a workshop in Brisbane that was known as GP Cars. His name is Jim Bertram.

I have no doubt at all that I'd met him in the distant past, but time goes on and people change, memories might dim a little. I still drop in and visit him from time to time, he's a very nice guy, his wife was involved in a terrible car accident about three years ago but has just about recovered.

I'm sure it's not the only story I could tell... no, of course it's not! I told another one recently...

http://forums.atlasf...&postid=1931182

#22 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:14

My wife, young daughter and I were shown to a table in the middle of a large dining room in LA
circa 1976 - I went off to talk with some racer types and when I came back to our table my wife was talking to a blonde lady and her partner was amusing daughter [7] with impersonations of southern usa accents - he was not bad at it, but I thought it was a bit over the top in a restaurant full of Americans. I went back to talk to my new buddies at the bar.
The meal arrived and when I returned my wife introduced me to her new friends Bev and Alan Jones! :o

#23 ensign14

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:58

I once got a bunch of Motor Sports from the archives at the Bodleian and the librarian told me her husband used to race. Never heard of him, though, chap called Bucket - I confess all I could think of was "bouquet"...

#24 David Beard

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:35

Originally posted by ensign14
I once got a bunch of Motor Sports from the archives at the Bodleian and the librarian told me her husband used to race. Never heard of him, though, chap called Bucket - I confess all I could think of was "bouquet"...


David Bucket I think , used to race Minis in the late 60s. I think he came from the Oxford area, so that would fit.

#25 Frank de Jong

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:40

By far not in the same legue as the stories above, but still...
A while ago I had a meeting with a colleague who has joined our company a while ago. The conversation moved to motorsport when he saw the Warsteiner BMW poster in my office.
His motorsport connection turned out to be that his former company sponsored Donny Crevels 1998 Italian championship-winning F3 season - and he had been many times in Italy then, being involved with the whole deal.

#26 TonyCotton

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:31

1) In 1980 I was doing the audit of a Petersfield engineering company and saw some car models. I asked why they were there and was told the Chairman was an ex-hillclimber named Tony Marsh. It was only when I spoke a week later to a Cooper 500 driver that I realised Tony was one of the truly great drivers of hillclimbing - maybe the greatest. Having met him several times since, also one of the most charming and self effacing

2) I live in Wolverhampton and about 30 years ago, maybe more, there was a house in the next road with a big picture of a racing car in the porch. Somebody told me it was Richard Attwood's house, but I never found out for sure.

#27 ensign14

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 13:30

Originally posted by David Beard


David Bucket I think , used to race Minis in the late 60s. I think he came from the Oxford area, so that would fit.

Yes, that was him. We had a brief discussion about his times with the likes of Gethin and Piers Courage.

#28 llmaurice

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 16:41

I met Colin Chapman in 1955 --- kept me poor for 5 years !

#29 Barry Boor

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 16:47

A friend of mine told me at the weekend that coming back from a business trip to Montreal, that co-incidentally co-incided! with the Canadian Grand Prix (this year) he found himself sitting amongst a small group that comprised John Watson, Tony Jardine and Sam Michaels.

He had a very interesting flight and learned many interesting things, most of which could not possibly be repeated here!

#30 Frank de Jong

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 19:51

Originally posted by David Beard


David Bucket I think , used to race Minis in the late 60s. I think he came from the Oxford area, so that would fit.


I was just browsing through the Guards Motor 200 program of october 1967. 5th reserve, class 1001-1300 of the Saloon race: David Buckett...

#31 Ralliart

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:05

Possibly in the winter of '81, my brother was working in Mammoth Lakes, California as a bartender. Frank Williams came in one night and I don't how it happened - maybe Mr. Williams was staying there for several days - but he had a new copy of "RACERS: The Inside Story Of Williams Grand Prix Engineering" handy and got Williams to autograph it for me. One time, maybe 10 years ago or so, I was outside, taking a break from work, and happened to start up a conversation with a pretty co-worker. I don't know how we got on to it, but she said she was related to a former racing car driver, but I wouldn't know him. I asked the name - Masten Gregory. While working at the Berlin Golf Club in the 90's, I happened to be reading "ROSEMEYER!" in the lobby during a break. One of the members was passing by, noticed the title of the book I was reading, and told me that he had gone to medical school with Bernd Rosemeyer Jr. At that same club (membership was 50% Americans, British and French and the other 50% German), several of the members were American Pan Am pilots. Got to talking with one of them and he'd been a race driver - forget the name but there was a photo of him racing a Corvette in one of the books on AVUS - and it turns out that he had had breakfast with Pedro Rodriguez the morning of the fateful Norisring race. I believe he raced in one of the supporting races that weekend. He told me that Pedro had been hitting on his then German girlfriend (later wife) at that breakfast. I talked with her several times at the golf club and although it had been 20 years before, I could see why Rodriguez had been flirting with her as she was still a looker.

#32 bigears

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:46

Originally posted by TonyCotton
2) I live in Wolverhampton and about 30 years ago, maybe more, there was a house in the next road with a big picture of a racing car in the porch. Somebody told me it was Richard Attwood's house, but I never found out for sure.


Really? I rent out a house in Wolverhampton and I would be interested where Richard Attwood's house is based. I could try to find whether it is true or not.

#33 GBORSARI

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 05:26

I had lived in So. California only about one month, and in the grocery store, I ran into HENRY MANNEY III.
He didn't live too far from my appartment.

I was so in awe of him, I didn't even say hello.

A few years later, I saw him at the LB grand prix and had a nice chat with him.

#34 philippe7

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 06:38

....are "two-wheels" motorsport stories welcome?

Well, I was going to catch my flight back to Nouméa in the Sydney airport after having been to the 1994 Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix at Eastern Creek. As I came into the boarding lounge, here was a large crowd of (mainly) Italian speaking people , most dressed in Chesterfield corporate clothes.....The whole Aprilia factory team, going to take a few days vacation at the Nouméa Club Med before the next Grand Prix in Malaysia....I was seating in the plane right behind Max Biaggi, Jean-Philippe Ruggia was a couple of rows ahead , and one of Max's mechanics was seating besides me.....I talked to him during all the 3 hours flight , in a weird mixture of french, english, italian and a lot of "hand talking" . I had a nice chat with Ruggia as well, who is a nice although rather "basic" bloke ......on the other hand Biaggi was (already in 94....) rather cold, arrogant and a little on the "fat-headed" style.

#35 275 GTB-4

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 11:14

Originally posted by bigears
Really? I rent out a house in Wolverhampton and I would be interested where Richard Attwood's house is based. I could try to find whether it is true or not.


Many years ago I met the then "Dickie" Attwood and Pedro Rodriguez as a young man....quite surreal that two drivers I had only read about, watched newsreels about and saw drive only the once AFAIR....were there chatting in suburban Sydney with me... :D

#36 Santi

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 14:57

Originally posted by philippe7
......on the other hand Biaggi was (already in 94....) rather cold, arrogant and a little on the "fat-headed" style.




You are too hard with the poor boy. He had won the first race in the run to what he knew was his first World Championship and in addition, his theorically worst enemy, Tetsu Harada was leaving Eastern Creek with a big O on his points board.
He was in his right to be arrogant. :rolleyes: :lol:


My storie is not at that level, but...

It happens that I work as a network admin in an office with about 120 people. I know everybody's names, but some of them are only a face in the lift.
I was a few months ago trying to fix something through the remote desktop in the machine of a user who I didn't know very well. When I closed all his stuff to reach the desktop I found ... wait a sec, I gonna grabb it secretly just now...  ;) :blush:

Posted Image


He had this like his desktop.
I asked if he liked classic motorsport or maybe Monaco, but he said: "Not really... it's just that this car is a Bugatti... " Wwoooww :eek: maybe he's not so snob as he looks like "... and my grandfather did some dealings with Ettore Bugatti while my uncles raced Bugattis in the 20's."
His grandpa was the Spanish banker De Vizcaya, who in 1909 supported Ettore's first own business, which droved to what everybody in the world would know.

Imagine what a lot of stories he could have told me, but that was all that he hardly knew about it, "... because I dont like all that stuff of cars and so...". :confused:

He's a s*ithead, mate. :

#37 SKL

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Posted 16 July 2005 - 02:47

In '73 or '74 I was stopping at the local Porsche-Audi dealer for some parts and noticed a big Lincoln sedan parked behind the dealership with a fellow leaning up against the building, obviously waiting for someone. As I got closer I couldn't believe my eyes, but my favourite driver, Mark Donohue was standing there alone, waiting for some lawyer. He was in our eastern Iowa town to drive a used Porsche that had been in an accident and to show nothing was wrong with it- an expert witness for Porsche. I got to chat, one on one with him for a good 20 minutes, about everything racing, etc. Needless to say I was in 7th heaven. Still kick myself for not having him autograph the underside of my hood with a magic marker!! ( Still have that car, a 1971 Porsche.) When he was killed not more than two years later in the Penske F1 car in Austria, it felt like I'd lost a member of my family.

#38 William Dale Jr

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Posted 16 July 2005 - 02:57

There used to be an older man that used to be in my town, he usually donned a cowboy hat and he drove around in a Corvette with personalised 'Toledo' numberplates. As with most things, we never found out just who he was until it was too late. The obituary in the local paper reavealed the man to be none other than Stan Coffey. In hindsight, the 'Toledo' plates should have been a dead-giveaway...

#39 peebo

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 19:18

In the late 1980s I was newly out of Dental School and was asked to do a house visit to an elderly gent.

I arrived at the address to find a charming and obviously devoted couple. We chatted during the visit and it emerged the gentleman followed F1. I was a cocky 23 year old and asked patronisingly about his favourites - I got detail way beyond my paltry knowledge.

The cockiness ended immediately.

I was asked if I would like to go into the study - inqusitive as ever, I jumped at the chance. Books, photographs, manuscripts, letters - a treasure trove.

Thats how I met George Monkhouse.

My visits took hours from then on - I regard myself as very privileged to have known him and his wife for a short time.

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#40 Tmeranda

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 19:53

Was working in London and had a really bad day at work. Needed a drink in the worst way. Stopped into a Pub in Shepards Bush. Had to move really fast to beat a chap up to the bar to get my order in first. Turns out he was Stirling Moss. Needless to say, I had the very great pleasure to buy him a drink.

#41 David Beard

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 21:06

Originally posted by Tmeranda
Was working in London and had a really bad day at work. Needed a drink in the worst way. Stopped into a Pub in Shepards Bush. Had to move really fast to beat a chap up to the bar to get my order in first. Turns out he was Sterling Moss. Needless to say, I had the very great pleasure to buy him a drink.


Cool. I'd love the chance to buy Stirling Marlin a drink....

#42 Barry Boor

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 21:31

Subtle, Dabs - very subtle....  ;)

#43 Twin Window

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 21:32

Originally posted by David Beard

Cool. I'd love the chance to buy Stirling Marlin a drink....

:rotfl:







Sorry; I just couldn't resist...

#44 Ian McKean

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 22:08

Originally posted by TonyCotton
1) In 1980 I was doing the audit of a Petersfield engineering company and saw some car models. I asked why they were there and was told the Chairman was an ex-hillclimber named Tony Marsh. It was only when I spoke a week later to a Cooper 500 driver that I realised Tony was one of the truly great drivers of hillclimbing - maybe the greatest. Having met him several times since, also one of the most charming and self effacing


I have believed for decades that Tony Marsh was from the family that manufactured Marsh pork pies. What probably happened was that my Ma or Pa thought it was probably true and related it to little Ian who took it as gospel...

Or maybe there was a connection?

Ref David Buckett, I think he used to work at the BLMC Service Division, IIRC. His bulk must have cost him a second a lap. I didn't know you could get old Motor Sports from the Bodleian

#45 Frank S

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 22:20

Some time in the late 70s or early 80s one of my local service clubs volunteered our services as track personnel for BMX (bicycle) races near my home. I failed as a starter because I didn't let the little riders push the gate down before the count of "Zero". Demoted to what seemed to be a drag-the-bodies-off-the-course capacity, my first crash involved one boy of about eight years. I asked him if he could move on his own, and he did. A moment later his father arrived. I happened to know him from another life-thread. The boy was Alex Barron, eventually an Indy racer of some success.

In 1990 or so my daughter and son-in-law went on their honeymoon trip, a cruise in the Caribbean. Their seat-mate on a Los Angeles-to-Miami flight was Adrian Fernandez, at that time just beginning a tour in the Indy Lights series.

About four years ago my daughter's firm sent staff to a career-enhancement seminar, something about communication. The presenter was Alan Johnson, sometime Porsche pilot and dealer, and author of Driving In Competition.

In the middle-late 60s a familiar face showed up at a parking-lot slalom in Mission Valley: Oscar Kovaleski. Just in San Diego on unrelated business, and dug deep enough to find sports-car related activity. I guess this doesn't count, since it was a car event.

--
Frank S

#46 Jerry Entin

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 06:54

In 1974 Sid Taylor and I were running a Formula 5000 car for Vern Shuppan at Riverside. We were waiting for my wife Carmen to come in with her Girl Friend Debbie. They said it was really crowded at the credential building but here they were. Just than Parnelli Jones comes up to say hi to me and Vern. As he walks up he says" Hi Carmen, Hi Debbie". I said Debbie are you related to Parnelli? Her last name was Jones. She and Carmen just cracked up. They had been in line waiting for their credentials and Parnelli was behind them and they became friends.

#47 Sharman

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:03

1963 I was in New York on business, I had arranged the trip to coincide with the USGP. On the Wednesday evening I wandered into a bar on Madison and struck up conversation with another lone figure. In the course of conversation it came out that I intended going to Watkins Glen. He promptly said "I'll leave some passes for you at the gate". We finished our drinks and went our separate ways. On the Friday evening I turned up at the gate and told the young lady on duty that somebody named Guiseppe DiLorenzo had left some passes for me. "Oh yes" she said, and produced an envelope stuffed with pit and track passes. It was une ofthe most enjoyable GPs I ever attended. But who the hell was Guiseppe DiLorenzo , I never did find out.

#48 James Page

James Page
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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:21

A few years back, when I was a pro at Thornbury Golf Club, near Bristol (the UK version), one of the other guys taught someone with the surname 'Abecassis'. I was always dying to ask if they were any relation to George, but for one reason and another, I never got the chance…

#49 f1steveuk

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 17:45

Slightly different, but nearly the same!! I was sitting in the "as usual" line of traffic on the round car park known as the M25, drifting off, when I saw the registration of the car in front, P180 BRM. Made me smile! :)

#50 Sharman

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 15:44

Slightly off theme, I used to have a wine bar which had on the wall an 11ft WW1 airscrew which came from a Short type184. There were a couple of gents at one of the tables, one of whom I knew quite well, a local farmer in his 70's from whom I bought broccoli. A lady asked if the prop was from a Spitfire and I explained its provenance. I commented that the early Spitfires had indeed had a twin bladed prop but this was far earlier. Somehow this triggered a conversation with the farmer and his pal. I had read a fair amount about the various marks and disagreed with some minor point and offered to look up the reference. The farmers pal said "don't bother he knows more about Spitfires than your book can tell you; he's got 3500 hrs on them". Moral, always be sure of your facts when talking to your olders and betters.