21 replies to this topic

[gerard BARATHIEU]

Does any body has some photo to post about this car ?

[David McKinney]

No, but I believe it was painted a lurid gold. And its appearance was further "enhanced" by a rollover bar

[WINO]

Since the 250F was still owned by Joe Lubin of Beverly Hills when Hulettte raced it, it was probably painted in the same colors in which Bobbie Drake ran it in the 1960 US Grand Prix: white with two blue stripes.

I remember seeing a start photo taken in one of the early 60s USAC road races, making the car stand out in its Lubin livery.

WINO

[gerard BARATHIEU]

WINO,

do you have some photos about this USAC race?

THANKS A LOT;

[HDonaldCapps]

At the 1962 IRP USAC RRC event, the car appears to be as described -- white with stripes.

[WINO]

GeGe,

I would have to go through my entire stack of musty old car magazines to find it, a monumental task. And I don't have a scanner!

However, your fellow countryman and modelmaker Jean Damon had an excellent and correct model of the car, as raced by Drake at Riverside in 1960, on display at last year's Retromobile.

A note in the latest issue of The Fabulous Fifties just reminded me of something. I interviewed Joe Lubin in 1966 and at the time he mentioned that he did not own the 250F entirely. A friend of his, in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, owned a share in the car. Interestingly, the friend's name was Bruno Ferrari, who was in the construction business.

After Hulette raced the car [he literally trashed it, according to Lubin], it was stored for 25-30 years in Latrobe. It was still there when Don Orosco bought it from Lubin. Orosco could not believe that all serial numbers on the Maserati matched and "he started drooling". [Lubin's words]



WINO

[Frank S]

Did it look like the one in this Don Dean Sheffield photo?



I disremember whether or not the caption
"Jim Hall demo run Times GP 1960"
is correct or should be corrected.
Could it be Shelby?

Add/Edit:
"The piccolo Maserati 250F that did the demonstration laps before the 1960 Times Grand Prix was driven by Carroll Shelby. I have some other photos of the combination, which clearly identify Shelby. I don't think Jim Hall ever sat behind the wheel. Not sure why Bobbie Drake did not do it, as he drove it in the US Grand Prix later on in November. It was chassis 2533, owned by Joe Lubin of Beverly Hills. It had been upgraded at the factory with Birdcage-type Girling disc brakes up front, instead of the standard drum brakes." —Willem Oosthoek

So, there's your source. Thank you, Willem.

--

Frank S

[WINO]

Frank,

Exactly like Hulette raced it at Indianapolis Raceway Park in 1962, with the exception of the race number [which I can't remember] and an added rollbar [mandatory in USAC racing]


WINO

[David McKinney]

Hmm
Wonder when it got its gold paintjob?
It was that colour when Orosco bought it

[Barrie Hobkirk]

And just to throw the usual Maserati confussion into the mix.

Under that crude gold paintwork, where it shows, is a very red Maserati. No sign of white!

I have a copy of the pictures taken at the Orosco viewing of the car in Latrobe. And yes, he is drooling.

Cheers,
Barrie

[WINO]

I was about to say that Orosco probably envisioned bullion [$$$] when he described the car as gold. He sold it for over $ 1 million at the time. Lubin never wanted to tell me what he received for the car himself. A gentleman of the old school, he only said, " Oh, I don't think it is important."

Since apparently there are photos of the car in gold, I wonder if it could have been oxidized white paint as a result of those 30 years of storage in Pennsylvania. Otherwise it does not make any sense, since traces of white SHOULD have been found underneat. Or perhaps, with confusion about the pedigree of certain chass numbers, Orosco had another "favored" car in mind and neglected to mention the white? Stranger things have happened in that segment of the market.

WINO

[gerard BARATHIEU]

thank you gentlemen;

did somebody has a photo of the car in gold delivery ?

[Patrick Fletcher]

No photo of 2533 in gold livery but maybe it was red in NZ with a piccolo nose early in 1959 [Harry Schell] I guess you will all know this.

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Frank S
Did it look like the one in this Don Dean Sheffield photo?

How come the trident in such a late car, and where has the piccolo nose gone to?
Was Ozzy Osmond in charge of the the road marking that day?

[WINO]

Maserati must have tarted up the car for its customer by adding the trident. The shark-nose did not offer any advantages, so was replaced by a conventional nose. Brakes were upgraded. The paint job was the one Lubin used on all his cars, DB3Ss and Birdcage. The race number was the one always used by Drake in West Coast racing.

WINO

[Frank S]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher

...Was Ozzy Osmond in charge of the the road marking that day?

I dunno; the wigglies were a feature of the approach to a hillcrest at Turn Seven for many years.

1971:

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
No photo of 2533 in gold livery but maybe it was red in NZ with a piccolo nose early in 1959 [Harry Schell] I guess you will all know this.

No I didn't know that
Could have sworn it was predominantly blue in NZ

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Barrie Hobkirk
And just to throw the usual Maserati confussion into the mix.

Under that crude gold paintwork, where it shows, is a very red Maserati. No sign of white!

Thats what threw me David - so was 2533 blue, then red, then white? then gold?

[David McKinney]

Now you've got me...
That race was the first time I'd seen 250Fs and although they made a big impression, the details are a bit blurred after 46 years.
There were three blue cars in the race, the two Scuderia Buell piccoli, which were predominantly dark blue, and Ross Jensen's similar-bodied car, which was a lighter shade. The NZ entry was touched up with yellow, and Shelby's Buell entry with white, but I'm not 100% sure whether of the secondary colour of Schell's. I'm certain it was different from Shelby's, but whether it was yellow or gold I'm not sure. I do think however that the apparent red in the picture used on the back dustjacket of my 250F book is a trick of the light

[Patrick Fletcher]

Graham Gauld's excellent Modena Racing Memories has on p80/81 2533 and 2534 painted in the blue and white of the United States. Masten Gregory tested 2534 prior to the 1958 Italian Grand Prix and Graham's photos clearly show 2534 as dark blue with single white stripe. Hope that Graham has a photo of 2533 around this time.

[David McKinney]

2534 was still blue with a single white stripe at Ardmore four months later
I also have a colour photo of Gregory in a blue and white 2533 at Monza
But that doesn't mean it was the same at Ardmore

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture of Masten Gregory in the white & blue Scuderia Centro Sud Maserati, Pescara 1957 :


Photographer unknown