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What if Piquet's career had ended at Imola 1987?


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#1 David Hyland

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 06:57

Whilst doing some BB Searching earlier today, I came across the What if Senna hadn't died at Imola? thread, which made me think of the question which is the title of this thread.

Consider:
- Mansell would almost certainly have won the 1987 WDC
- Without Piquet moving to Lotus, would Honda have stayed with Williams? If so, would Mansell/Williams/Honda have given Prost/Senna/McLaren/Honda some serious opposition in 1988? (probably)
- Would Senna (and Honda) still have gone to McLaren? Or would Senna have joined (or replaced) Mansell at Williams?

Discuss!

I'm aware that some members of this BB don't like "what if" threads. People so inclined should feel free to ignore and not participate in this thread.

Also, please note that I bear no ill feeling towards Sr Piquet, and I'm very glad that his career didn't end at Imola in 1987.

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#2 Mac Lark

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 07:02

In broad terms an interesting subject but I wonder if the title should have more like

What if the injuries Piquet sustained at Imola in 1987 had prevented him from racing again that year?

#3 Twin Window

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 07:29

Agreed, Mac.

#4 David Hyland

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 07:31

Me too. Thanks Mac & Twinny.

#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 07:38

One thing appears likely...

Honda might have stayed with Williams instead of dumping them and leaving them to the tender mercies of the Judd.

#6 petefenelon

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 07:57

Honda were interested in one thing at that point - Ayrton Senna. If Piquet was out of the picture I suspect that they would've pushed Senna from Lotus to Williams (clearly a stronger team at that point) as soon as was humanly possible and probably stuck with Williams through the atmo era. Lotus-Renault or McLaren-Renault though? -- let's guess at Lotus-Renault 'cos it had happened recently and not been too unsuccessful, which leaves the interesting dilemma of what engine can McLaren use? We know they'd been offered the Porsche V12.... ;P

Instead of Prost/Senna battles at McLaren you end up with Mansell/Senna battles at Williams, probably with almost as many "catastrophic toys/pram exit situations".

#7 John B

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 16:03

...and Prost waiting to pick up the pieces :D

Mansell gets the WDC - maybe Jacques Laffite gets a last shot at a GP win as the sub?

I've always thought it was a big loss that McLaren and Williams didn't get to battle with Hondas in 1988 -- it could have been one of the most intriguing seasons of the era -- the big 4 in top teams with the same powerplant :up:

#8 petefenelon

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 17:59

Originally posted by Ray Bell
One thing appears likely...

Honda might have stayed with Williams instead of dumping them and leaving them to the tender mercies of the Judd.


There is the opinion (stated by several people over the years) that Honda had a "problem" with the idea of Williams as a team led by a guy in a wheelchair... whether there's any truth to this I don't know, but i've seen it stated often enough. So maybe they'd've left Williams whatever happened after his accident?

#9 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 23:56

It's a bit sad to say it, but I'd suppose Piquet's reputation around boards like these would probably be a lot higher than it is today.

#10 Vicuna

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 00:58

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
It's a bit sad to say it, but I'd suppose Piquet's reputation around boards like these would probably be a lot higher than it is today.


I'm sure that is right.

#11 scousepenguin

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:00

Broadly speaking, Piquet was never the same after that accident, even though he went on to win the title that year.

#12 rallen

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:49

Broadly speaking, Piquet was never the same after that accident, even though he went on to win the title that year.


But Piquet in 1986 was disapointing...

#13 rallen

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:50

I do love What If's, some very interesting views. Did Williams ever try and tempted Senna from Lotus? and if not why not?

#14 MoebiusPT

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 14:02

From an obscure point of view.

Jean Alesi would pair his idol Prost at McLaren in 1989/1990 and by now would be at least double WC.



#15 kayemod

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 15:40

From an obscure point of view.

Jean Alesi would pair his idol Prost at McLaren in 1989/1990 and by now would be at least double WC.


Hmm, Jean Alesi a double WDC in the no2 McLaren?

You mean like Gerhard Berger, Michael Andretti, John Watson, Stefan Johansson, Martin Brundle, Mark Blundell, David Coulthard and J P Montoya?

Nice guy, good on his day, but Hell would freeze over before that happened.


#16 arttidesco

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 15:48

I do love What If's, some very interesting views. Did Williams ever try and tempted Senna from Lotus? and if not why not?


Williams was the first to give Senna an F1 test drive, I do not believe Senna ever left Franks radar.

#17 MoebiusPT

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 15:52

Hmm, Jean Alesi a double WDC in the no2 McLaren?

You mean like Gerhard Berger, Michael Andretti, John Watson, Stefan Johansson, Martin Brundle, Mark Blundell, David Coulthard and J P Montoya?

Nice guy, good on his day, but Hell would freeze over before that happened.


I wasn't saying that he would be WC while being Prost 2nd driver, but perhaps he would have a better change when Prost retired (assuming that Prost retired in 93 as well).

#18 pizzakrap

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 17:33

I would say Johansson probably would have stayed on as number 2 to Prost maybe being replaced by palmer whose stock was fairly high at the time (being non turbo champion after all) in fact i think he got nominated by mclaren when Senna was denied his superlicence in 1990. Now how he would have done is anyones guess. Cant see Prost leaving the red and whites if Senna hadnt joined. As for Alesi he had/has the talent to go be multiple champion but unfortunately not the temprament and unfortunately at the f1 level you need the all round package.
If you belive all the mansell hype FW14 was a result of the big push to nige back into the team do you think they would have put that level of comitment if they had signed someone like Alesi to the team or carried on with fw13c? which was still a relatively new car and it wasnt beyond the norm to use evolutions of cars rather than brand new designs in the late 80's.
One off topice question which has always bugged me though. In 1989 Beneton used the 1988 car which by all accounts was pretty handy. Yet in 1989 the frivers complained about the handling being awful. i can inderstand the car being slower than the competition but why did it become a monster all of a sudden. was it tyre compounds or something more complicated.

Thanks for your time and i have really enjoyed reading this forum and learning from you folks. :-)

Edited by pizzakrap, 21 July 2010 - 17:59.


#19 Longtimefan

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:25

If Piquet was injured enough to end his season or career, would they have re-profiled Tamburello and in turn saved the life of Ayrton?

(Please note I dont wish that on him, its just a what-if)



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#20 man

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:09

If Piquet's career ended at Imola 1987, I think Roberto Moreno possibly could have replaced his fellow Brazilian for the remainder of the the season. Didn't Moreno test for Williams around that period and match Piquet's times? I still think Honda would have teammed up with McLaren taking Senna with. Honda would also have put pressure on Frank to take Nakajima to which Frank would decline, as was the case so we would have had WDC Mansell and Moreno at Williams Judd for 1988, Senna and Prost at McLaren Honda and possibly Nakajima and Johansson perhaps? Stefan always seemed to have a first class relationship with all the teams he worked for and had fairly competent race pace but maybe his 1987 performace wasn't enough to impress Peter Warr. Lotus was a winning team in 1987 so they certainly had pulling power for 1988. Take your pick from Patrese, how about tempting Keke out of retirement or Martin Brundle or Jonathan Palmer or Derek Warwick?

#21 ghinzani

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 20:41

I thought Mike Thackwell was Honda and Williams test driver in europe then japan in 85 & 86? If so the no nonsense Mike would have overhauled Mansells point score and been WDC.

Justice done.