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F1-World Champion 2006: Jarno Trulli or Juan Pablo Montoya


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#1 aditya-now

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:02

With how the tests for the V8 engines are going, it would seem likely that Toyota makes another big leap forward.
The only question mark is their possible change to Bridgestone which could be counterproductive for 2006, if wise in the long run.

However, for me the first guess for WC 2006 is therefore Jarno Trulli.

Don´t rule out Juan Pablo Montoya, though. He is settling in ever better with McLaren, while Kimi is fast losing his support with the team, based on aspects of his private life as well as the hardball tactics his manager is applying in contract negotiations.

With Ferrari and Renault their ability to produce a decent V 8 keeps me wondering. Especially with Ferrari...

As unlikely as it may seem today, we could therefore have a three-way-battle for champion in 2006 with Jarno Trulli, Juan Pablo Montoya and Fernando Alonso.

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#2 ademm

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:12

2006 will be 2004 reloaded.

#3 Clatter

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:19

We may well have a 3 way or even 4 way battle, but IMHO Trulli will not be in the mix.

#4 Schumeister

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:21

Originally posted by ademm
2006 will be 2004 reloaded.



:up:

With out a doubt

#5 mrudewyc

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:24

Originally posted by ademm
2006 will be 2004 reloaded.


Awesome.

#6 carbonfibre

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:36

Michael Schumacher will take the 2006 title.

And may i ask why you even doubt that Ferrari is able to produce a decent V8? Ferrari have already tested their V8 ontrack without any failures unlike the others.

#7 Sakae

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:39

Originally posted by aditya-now
With how the tests for the V8 engines are going, it would seem likely that Toyota makes another big leap forward.
The only question mark is their possible change to Bridgestone which could be counterproductive for 2006, if wise in the long run.

However, for me the first guess for WC 2006 is therefore Jarno Trulli.

Don´t rule out Juan Pablo Montoya, though. He is settling in ever better with McLaren, while Kimi is fast losing his support with the team, based on aspects of his private life as well as the hardball tactics his manager is applying in contract negotiations.

With Ferrari and Renault their ability to produce a decent V 8 keeps me wondering. Especially with Ferrari...

As unlikely as it may seem today, we could therefore have a three-way-battle for champion in 2006 with Jarno Trulli, Juan Pablo Montoya and Fernando Alonso.


Neither will be in running. Lucky if they fight for third or fourth.

#8 v@sh

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:41

This seems like a pretty pointless thread. Why only Trulli and Montoya?

#9 HBoss

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 11:41

Why do you believe 2006 will be 2004 reloaded (which was 2002 reloaded, which was 2001 enhanced and improved)?

:p

#10 Victor

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 14:13

What a funny thread! Trulli and Montoya? Why not Sato and Albers?

#11 ademm

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 14:17

Originally posted by HBoss
Why do you believe 2006 will be 2004 reloaded (which was 2002 reloaded, which was 2001 enhanced and improved)?

:p


Michael was faster than Raikkonen at Hungary despite f2005 running with the new generation tyres only for two weeks. Just that is sufficient.

#12 HBoss

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 14:20

Originally posted by ademm


Michael was faster than Raikkonen at Hungary despite f2005 running with the new generation tyres only for two weeks. Just that is sufficient.


I thought Kimi qualified behind him because he went out first on a dirty track. He then finished 30 seconds ahead after spending half the race behind Schumcher.

So how was Schumacher faster??

#13 bern@rd

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 09:35

Originally posted by ademm


Michael was faster than Raikkonen at Hungary despite f2005 running with the new generation tyres only for two weeks. Just that is sufficient.

It was not a matter of the new tyres. ferrari was good in italy too. Back then they were saying they have found their pace back. Have they? :p
It's just a matter of a few tracks fitting their package. It's not a matter of the new tyres. How can it be when their new tyres didn't even exist in Italy yet?

#14 aditya-now

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 11:32

Originally posted by v@sh
This seems like a pretty pointless thread. Why only Trulli and Montoya?


It´s Trulli (Toyota), Montoya (McLaren) and Alonso (Renault), if you read the opening comment correctly.
That is not pointless, as Toyota and Mclaren are going to be a definite force next year.

Trulli needs no comment, he might well have become WC 2005 on Renault, had he not had the fall out with Flavio. He was leading Fernando for a long time in 2004...don´t forget.

With McLaren the question is really how the relationship Ron - Kimi is going to continue with the stresses that a) Kimi´s drinking habit and b) Mr. Robertson put on the relationship.

It might not come as a surprise that JPM will be a stronger force in 2006 than this year.
Remember Williams - the Colombian had a fantastic chemistry with his crew to the very last race with Williams.
It is surely no mistake to conclude that he will build his camp at McLaren successfully as well.

Alonso surely will be a strong contender.

With Ferrari, contrary to what some of the "2004 reloaded" fans have had to say, the Ferrari V 8 is still producing heavy (sickening) vibrations that did not have Ivan Capelli feel well at all.
Toyota on the other hand have the most smoothly running V 8´s of all teams at this point.

For sure Ferrari has got the 2005 wrong, so what with the 2006 ?!
What role does Rory Byrne play with the design for 2006 ?
It seems a lot of the "success" personell of the Scuderia start leaving the ship....
And don´t forget the budget difficulties that Ferrari has right now. Insiders say that they have far overstretched themselves...

Anyway, it´s nice to notice that Schumi still has his fans.
Will he succeed though in any major way next year - that is another question.

#15 Piif

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 11:34

Originally posted by aditya-now

As unlikely as it may seem today, we could therefore have a three-way-battle for champion in 2006 with Jarno Trulli, Juan Pablo Montoya and Fernando Alonso.



Yeah right. The battle will be with Räikkönen, Alonso, Schumacher and maybe Trulli. Montoya will have no say in it as long as he's partnered with a faster teammate.

#16 dde

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 15:19

Originally posted by Piif



Yeah right. The battle will be with Räikkönen, Alonso, Schumacher and maybe Trulli. Montoya will have no say in it as long as he's partnered with a faster teammate.


And who is this faster teamate ?

I thought Montoya was to be partenered with Raikkonen again in 2006.

#17 DaleCooper

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 15:48

Originally posted by dde


And who is this faster teamate ?

I thought Montoya was to be partenered with Raikkonen again in 2006.



You need to leave the temple of Schumacher and watch the races. The track is outside ;)


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#18 jokuvaan

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 16:05

Time for tough talk pre-2006 season :clap:

Unfortunately we have no idea about next years cars or tyres so, should we wait winter testing or does somebody have a sibyl in their closet?

#19 xype

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 16:23

I'll put my head out and claim JV will win the title by 2 points over MS! Yay! :clap:

(The season isn't even over, I tought the out-of-this-world speculation starts in november?)

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#20 xenna

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 20:06

Originally posted by aditya-now



It might not come as a surprise that JPM will be a stronger force in 2006 than this year.
Remember Williams - the Colombian had a fantastic chemistry with his crew to the very last race with Williams.
It is surely no mistake to conclude that he will build his camp at McLaren successfully as well.




Fantastic? Is it the same guy who wrote f##k off on the face of the Gift that everybody in his team had meticulously signed for a retiring mechanic?

#21 AD

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 20:54

Originally posted by HBoss
Why do you believe 2006 will be 2004 reloaded (which was 2002 reloaded, which was 2001 enhanced and improved)?

:p



:lol: :up:

#22 Ralliart

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 06:29

:lol: It's my opinion that Jarno Trulli will NEVER win the F1 Driver's Championship. Doesn't matter what team he stays with/moves to.

#23 Drifter

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 06:40

Originally posted by Ralliart
:lol: It's my opinion that Jarno Trulli will NEVER win the F1 Driver's Championship. Doesn't matter what team he stays with/moves to.


Exactly my thoughts. Jarno battling for the top spot over a full season?..... :lol:

#24 JarnoRalfToyota

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 11:49

Originally posted by Drifter


Exactly my thoughts. Jarno battling for the top spot over a full season?..... :lol:


Underestimation is good :up:

#25 Mauseri

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 11:52

Trulli and Monty? :lol:

Why not Rubens and Villeneuve as well :rotfl:

#26 BedR

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 11:58

2006:
A battle between M. Schumacher, R. Schumacher and Fisichella. :smoking:

#27 carbonfibre

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:04

With Ferrari, contrary to what some of the "2004 reloaded" fans have had to say, the Ferrari V 8 is still producing heavy (sickening) vibrations that did not have Ivan Capelli feel well at all.
Toyota on the other hand have the most smoothly running V 8´s of all teams at this point.

Where did you get that from? As far as i know Gene tested the engine a couple of days and he had no problems with it, no vibration problems as well.

And Mercedes has blown another V8 today with Pedro behind the wheel.

#28 Levike

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:05

Another pointless thread.
Yet we have Raikkonen, who is driving the wheels off from his mclaren, and you don't even mention him as title contender for next year.
And we have a 7 times champion, who, i bet it, didn't forgot how to drive in 10 months.. :)

Instead you think about Trulli who is an unknown factor yet , and Montoya, who have to prove himself against Raikkonen. Hmm.... ?

#29 BRG

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:11

Originally posted by Drifter
Exactly my thoughts. Jarno battling for the top spot over a full season?..... :lol:

Quite so. Jarno battling for the top spot over a full RACE distance is unlikely enough!

But I do think that Montoya should be in the frame next year. Kimi has had his chance this season and has flunked it, for whatever reason. His relations with the team are surely not as good as they were if all the rumours about moving to Ferrrari are even slightly true - there is no smoke without fire (especially from a Mercedes engine). If Juan-Pablo can make an early season break and doesn't fall off his motorbike again whilst going for a half-volley, it may be Kimi having to toe the team orders line.

But you have to reckon on Kimi being a candidate as well. Alonso and Renault are going to be there or thereabouts and with Fernando gaining all that extra confidence from being the 2005 WDC, he may be a tough competitor.

Ferrari are the unknwon quantity. We have now seen that Schumacher is only human after all and needs the team to get everything right if he is to compete. If Ferrari and/or Bridgestone drop the ball again, he will be nowhere. Indeed Michael has made it clear that he will only decide whether to drive in March 2006 - that is AFTER all the testing, when he will know whether it is lemon time again at Maranello. If the car isn't competitive, he will stay at home in Switzerland. And Massa isn't going to step into his shoes, is he?

So IMO the 2006 WDC will be between Montoya, Raikkonen and Alonso with Schumacher as a possible dark horse.

#30 Tubbs

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:19

Originally posted by BRG
Kimi has had his chance this season and has flunked it, for whatever reason.


Kimi really didn't even have a realistic chance because grenading engines, tyres, driveshafts and hydraulics.


His relations with the team are surely not as good as they were if all the rumours about moving to Ferrrari are even slightly true - there is no smoke without fire (especially from a Mercedes engine). If Juan-Pablo can make an early season break and doesn't fall off his motorbike again whilst going for a half-volley, it may be Kimi having to toe the team orders line.


And what would you believe the chances to "toe the team orders line" would Kimi have if his relations with team are not good. :rolleyes: It makes no sense.

#31 ademm

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:28

Originally posted by HBoss


I thought Kimi qualified behind him because he went out first on a dirty track. He then finished 30 seconds ahead after spending half the race behind Schumcher.

So how was Schumacher faster??


I read somewhere, in ITV-F1 maybe, that Kimi going first cost him at most 1 sec. But MS was heavier than him worth .4. At the first stint Kimi couldnt catch MS despite being lighter than him.

etc. etc. All those are nothing. Matching Mclaren with a two week new tyres is all that count and those 3 races with the new compound and construction will reveal the fate of next year.

#32 Mauseri

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:36

Originally posted by ademm
I read somewhere, in ITV-F1 maybe, that Kimi going first cost him at most 1 sec. But MS was heavier than him worth .4. At the first stint Kimi couldnt catch MS despite being lighter than him.

I think it is proven that Kimi made his first fuel stop before necessary.

#33 Tomerell

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 13:02

aditya-now your reasoning for this thread is hilarious :rotfl:

I can recon that JPM is a one serious contender for the WDC, and even buy Jarno if Toyota makes a dominant car, but to say that Kimi does not have a change shows that you must have accidentally followed Nashcar instead of F1 for several years now, wake up :wave:

#34 Mauseri

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 16:00

Originally posted by aditya-now
Don´t rule out Juan Pablo Montoya, though. He is settling in ever better with McLaren, while Kimi is fast losing his support with the team, based on aspects of his private life as well as the hardball tactics his manager is applying in contract negotiations.

How is Kimi losing support? McLaren like winners and Kimi is one. I think it's Montoya who is testing his support with these mistakes.

#35 HBoss

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 16:37

I thought the same too.
Not only is Raikkonen conquering every ounce of support he cna get, but it's no secret Ferrari want him bad and Ron loses his sleep at the thought of that.

If 2006 is like this year but with a more reliable McLaren, Kimi should win the title with races to spare.

#36 magicalonso

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 16:56

Originally posted by HBoss
I thought the same too.
Not only is Raikkonen conquering every ounce of support he cna get, but it's no secret Ferrari want him bad and Ron loses his sleep at the thought of that.

If 2006 is like this year but with a more reliable McLaren, Kimi should win the title with races to spare.

Though the question is will McLaren again field a car more than half a second faster than anybody else (acc. to Niki Lauda) with the new rules.

#37 Alfisti

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 17:06

Everybody slams Trulli for a lack of race pace yet he seem sjust as fast as Ralk .. he just qualifies higher. What is wrong with that???

#38 magicalonso

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 17:23

Originally posted by Alfisti
Everybody slams Trulli for a lack of race pace yet he seem sjust as fast as Ralk .. he just qualifies higher. What is wrong with that???

The problem is that many people have the idea of Trulli being a "poor" racer. These are the same people who do not bother to do enough research to find out that Jarno has outraced Ralf on more occasions than Ralf has outraced Jarno. These are also the same people who blame Trulli when he holds up others during the race without considering that in 90 % of the qualifying sessions Jarno outqualifies between 2 and 4 cars he has no business being ahead of and of course would not be able to outpace lap after lap during the race..These are also the same people who ignore that Ralf is at the same time doing slower lap times than Jarno - further down the pack where nobody notices him (such as Silverstone during first stint just to name one) These are also the same people who ignore that Ralf matched up much better vs. Montoya than he has against Trulli.
Okay - let's add a "probably" behind "These are also the same people" ;)

#39 Tubbs

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 17:31

Originally posted by magicalonso

Though the question is will McLaren again field a car more than half a second faster than anybody else (acc. to Niki Lauda) with the new rules.


Luckily they don't need such car as 2003 showed.

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#40 JarnoRalfToyota

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 20:10

Originally posted by magicalonso

The problem is that many people have the idea of Trulli being a "poor" racer. These are the same people who do not bother to do enough research to find out that Jarno has outraced Ralf on more occasions than Ralf has outraced Jarno. These are also the same people who blame Trulli when he holds up others during the race without considering that in 90 % of the qualifying sessions Jarno outqualifies between 2 and 4 cars he has no business being ahead of and of course would not be able to outpace lap after lap during the race..These are also the same people who ignore that Ralf is at the same time doing slower lap times than Jarno - further down the pack where nobody notices him (such as Silverstone during first stint just to name one) These are also the same people who ignore that Ralf matched up much better vs. Montoya than he has against Trulli.
Okay - let's add a "probably" behind "These are also the same people" ;)


:up:

Yeah very true.

#41 Mauseri

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 20:23

Originally posted by Tubbs
Luckily they don't need such car as 2003 showed.

Yeah. 100% reliability would do enough.

#42 aditya-now

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 18:34

Originally posted by magicalonso


.....These are also the same people who ignore that Ralf matched up much better vs. Montoya than he has against Trulli. ...;)


Fair enough, that Ralf-Monty comparison is a point all the Trulli-bashers like to forget too easily.

Plus: Trulli did not do that bad compared with Alonso. And yet the two remained friends !!!
How about that? Is it unthinkable to have a fast driver who is nice at the same time?
IMHO, both Trulli and Alonso are real nice human beings and real racers...

But maybe that is what makes the majority stick to others like Schumi, Montoya, Raikkonen - the controversial characters give much better material for stories.
At least that´s what Marc Surer concluded recently in a title story with the Swiss/German racing weekly "Motorsport aktuell".

#43 aditya-now

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 08:04

Wow, seems that that last post of mine immediately killed the thread, which was alive and kicking before, if not everybody of course agreed with the opinions expressed.

It seems that friendship in F 1 is

a) not there in general. Sometimes this is lamented (see comparison with CART and the feel in the paddock there).

b) if it is there (see Alonso/Trulli) it's not something that the fans are really after. It seems that most fans actually like their stars rather to fight each other and be enemies than be friends.

If b) is a statement to be generalized, than it would be no surprise that actually the paddock is just a reflection of the fans of F1 or better, vice versa, (most) fans reflect (most of) their sport.

That would of course mean that F1 fans are mostly strong characters, personalities or egos who enjoy the game by way of projection (an often occurring psychological pattern).

From my humble point of view though, I enjoy to see real kinship, like we saw with Fernando and Jarno (remember also the press conferences in the beginning of the year, when Fernando and Jarno often ended up in the top three qualifying or race, and the twosome had some real nice chats in front of the cameras).

#44 JarnoRalfToyota

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 09:03

I was cleaning out drawers in a press yesterday and I came across a paper with a preview for the 2000 F1 season. There was a page on Trulli and how his move to the team that had finished 3rd in the WCC was a great opportunity for him and about him being a rising star in F1.
Anyway Jarno said the first thing he does is build up a friendship with his team mate since they have to work together and its easier for everyone in the team to get results when both drivers are working together rather than being enemies of eachother.
He obviously found a good friend in Alonso :up:

#45 skittt

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 17:33

Originally posted by Tubbs


Luckily they don't need such car as 2003 showed.

What if another team, other than McLaren, make a car that is 2 secs per lap faster than McLaren? What will Kimi and Montoya do to the win the WDC against a car that is 2 secs a lap faster than McLaren in 2006? Think about it......

#46 SeanValen

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 17:44

Anything is possible, HHF was contending for the title in 1999.

0ne driver could be hooked up in a car for one season and things go his way, he's contending for the title, while other teams make mistakes.

#47 Zmeej

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 19:50

Bizarre thread... :confused:

Flunking Kimi, Jarno the contender, Alonso out of the picture... :stoned:

#48 gerry nassar

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 05:25

Have some of you even been watching the races this year. Trulli has been performing very well and Kimi has dominated JPM.

Silly thread - throwing together a couple of names - while ignoring other more worthy names. Im thinking the faster Mclaren driver, the 7X champion and the guy who will most likely be the 2005 WDC.

Its all a moot point until we see what happens with the teams' competitiveness with the new engine specs.

#49 kouks

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 05:46

JV or MW for WDC in 2006!

I have my reasons and yes, they are just as senseless as those that started this thread....

#50 Malcolm McLaren

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 08:16

Originally posted by dde


And who is this faster teamate ?

I thought Montoya was to be partenered with Raikkonen again in 2006.



Kimi is provenly much faster than JPM

Qualifying Kimi vs. JPM: 10 - 4 to Kimi

Fastest laps: 10 - 2 to Kimi

So how come can anyone see JPM faster than Kimi ?