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Who was Nigel Roebuck referring to?


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#1 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 03:25

from the "Ask Nigel" section, i was checking out questions on the F1 scene of the 80s, one of the subjects was on Misbehaving Drivers, and Nigel Roebuck wrote the following 2 incidents:

"I remember, too, the driver who, having taken rather too much post-race liquid refreshment, returned to his pit in the evening, and proceeded to pee all over the engine which had let him down that day. He might have got away with, but sadly it was in front of his major sponsor and his wife...

Then there was the occasion when a team manager, on the morning of a race, left his briefcase at his hotel, and returned to collect it. Upon doing, he was disappointed, shall we say, to find his wife entertaining the team's number one driver.

Made for a somewhat frosty atmosphere, that. Later in the day we were astonished when the driver, most untypically, had a coming-together with a rival, and was out on the spot. It wasn't until much later, upon learning of the earlier events in the day, that we understood that just possibly his mind had been elsewhere that afternoon... "

who do you think were the 2 drivers in the above situation, i'm particularly interested in finding out #2, that must have created a huge problem within the team. We may try to get some hints from Nigel's descriptions, that driver is not typical in making mistake, his crash with another driver left him retire out on the spot......who was the poor manager? did he get fired soon after? i have a feeling that this happened in the 80s as i find this question in the 80s era.

Or is it too hard to make it out from the limited info? has anyone heard of this before?

thanks alot
Louis

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#2 Twin Window

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 06:17

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1

Then there was the occasion when a team manager, on the morning of a race, left his briefcase at his hotel, and returned to collect it. Upon doing, he was disappointed, shall we say, to find his wife entertaining the team's number one driver.

Made for a somewhat frosty atmosphere, that. Later in the day we were astonished when the driver, most untypically, had a coming-together with a rival, and was out on the spot. It wasn't until much later, upon learning of the earlier events in the day, that we understood that just possibly his mind had been elsewhere that afternoon... "

Alain Prost, 1983 Dutch GP at Zandvoort. This was the real reason behind his *shock* sacking the day after the final race of the season at Kyalami...

#3 Marco94

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 08:15

AFAIK, it was Rene Arnoux that is rumoured to have been a little to interested in the wife of a seniour team member.

#4 ensign14

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 08:30

Originally posted by Twin Window
Alain Prost, 1983 Dutch GP at Zandvoort. This was the real reason behind his *shock* sacking the day after the final race of the season at Kyalami...

That was the race where he took Piquet out, n'est-ce pas? Oh la la.

I remember that GPI had a picture of a poster advert of Prost defaced by a banner with "Le Nain" (=dwarf) in very Renault-looking typeface, one wonders whether said manager had a hand in that.

#5 Zoe

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 08:41

It seemed to have been a not uncommon "joke" played by some drivers to their mechanics to pee in the seat and let the mechanics wonder about the sort and origin of the liquid there.
Makes me wonder about the motivation of the mechanics once they found out what the source really was!

Zoe

#6 Twin Window

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 08:55

Siegfried Stohr used to pee himself with regularity, I seem to remember.

#7 MonzaDriver

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 09:48

Originally posted by Twin Window
Siegfried Stohr used to pee himself with regularity, I seem to remember.


Hi Twin Window,
I think you dont remember well.
Stohr wrote in his book ( 1981 if I remember well) that during a race he found himself
with this " urgency " and naturally he doesn't want to leave the race for that reason,
so he pee into his overall while driving.
Just to give a precise indication Twin........

In any case this seems a lot of strange to myself.
Because in my opinion, the concentration and the pathos, while driving a racing car in a GP,
it's something that makes you forget anything else.
MonzaDriver.

#8 petefenelon

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 10:27

When they were operating out of the same garage at Williams (I hesitate to use the term "were teammates at") Piquet apparently decided to urinate right next to the gearbox of Mansell's car as everyone was leaving the garage - thereby causing the mechanics to waste much time looking for the source of the "leak" the next morning, not aware that was in fact their other driver. I assume the first mechanic to actually *sniff* rather than looking worked it out!

Bob Wollek was apparently never one to wait until his stint was over to relieve himself.

#9 ian senior

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 10:39

It's amazing the depths we descend to on here sometimes. I reckon you're all taking the piss.

#10 Zoe

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 11:12

Yeah it's a relief to talk about it :D

I remember an article many years ago in Autosport magazine (back when I still subscribed), where Herbert tells a story like that. I thought it was gross, but apparently it wasn't considered as being so exceptional.

Zoe

#11 ensign14

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 11:33

When Anthony Blight asked a tyre chappie about the problems at Brooklands, because there were all these inner tubes scattered around, said chappie said they were merely makeshift portaloos for the JRDC 500. Bumpy on the ol' kidneys, y'see. Just pop your relevant part into the inner tube, and relax.

And Anthony faithfully recorded it in his Georges Roesch book.

Maybe he should have drilled down further...asked about how Kay Petre coped...

#12 2F-001

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 13:25

How on earth did this thread get from A ("Ask...") to P (well, never mind...) missing out all the letters in between?!

#13 ensign14

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 13:36

I think we've had F, as in "off"...

#14 f1steveuk

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 09:33

Working at Formula One Management, I had the the chance to find out an awful lot from the ex Brabham boys who Bernie kept on into his next phase. One, Piquet's chief mechanic told me of many arguments with the driver regarding the puddles left in the seat. He also used to keep a collection of, er, well the findings from his nose, added to each other under the dash panel. and got very upset when the lucky "pile" was cleaned off. yuk!!!!!

#15 ivandjj

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 13:38

one more roebuck missing identity story. zolder 81. next practice after reutemann hit mechanic in the pitlane some driver and his team mechanic stood in front of reutemann who was sitting in his car and covered his faces with hands, trying to psyche him or something.
obvious candidate to me is mentioned in the post above. or is it?

#16 ensign14

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 21:00

Given that Roebuck in another article stated that most of the Press Pack were hoping Reutemann would win the title at Vegas in '81, I am guessing it was...

#17 Twin Window

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 21:16

Yes, but it was more a case of them not wanting the other bloke to win...

(If you see what I mean!)

#18 mikedeering

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 15:43

Originally posted by Twin Window
Alain Prost, 1983 Dutch GP at Zandvoort. This was the real reason behind his *shock* sacking the day after the final race of the season at Kyalami...


This got me thinking. Had Prost won the championship, surely Renault would not have sacked him? I can't believe they could sack the first French World Champion and lose the #1 for 1984 as well - they would have to explain to the public the reason for the dismissal rather than hide behind the fact he lost the title too. But then how could he have stayed?!

#19 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 17:46

Ivandjj raises the occasion when a driver and a mechanic pretened to be afarid of Carlos Reutemann who had, not long before, accidentally run over a mechanic.

The driver was Nelson Piquet and the 'machnic' was Alistair Caldwell, the team manager with Brabham. I hav it on record from Alistair that it was his idea and Ivandjj is right, it was meant to be playing mindgames with Nelson.

The incident contributed to Alistair leaving Brabham, it was felt he was having a bad effect on Nelson.

Remember the time, when on the grid, Nelson held up a sign saying 'Hello Mum' to a camera? That was a Caldwell stunt for his mother in New Zealand, which is why it was in English.

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#20 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 21:52

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Remember the time, when on the grid, Nelson held up a sign saying 'Hello Mum' to a camera? That was a Caldwell stunt for his mother in New Zealand, which is why it was in English.

That man should, nay must, write a book. His stories are hilarious. Spent a week with him last year at the historic races at Phillip Island, awesome fun that was. He was back here a couple of weeks ago catching up with Jimmy Stone at Speed on Tweed who he hadn’t seen for many years.

He seems amenable to the book idea.

Mike put the hard word on him please!

#21 FLB

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 02:06

Originally posted by Zoe
Yeah it's a relief to talk about it :D

I remember an article many years ago in Autosport magazine (back when I still subscribed), where Herbert tells a story like that. I thought it was gross, but apparently it wasn't considered as being so exceptional.

Zoe

At the 1996 Indy 500, Richie Hearn came on the radio during the yellow flag period after Lyn St.James had collided with Scott Harrington. His voice was trembling.


'Guys, I gotta pee real bad!'


Eventually, team owner John della Penna told him what to do.


'Do it in the f'ing car!'

#22 FLB

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 02:55

Originally posted by Twin Window
Alain Prost, 1983 Dutch GP at Zandvoort. This was the real reason behind his *shock* sacking the day after the final race of the season at Kyalami...

Jean-Luc Roy reports a similar story in his 1989 book, Dans les coulisses de la Formule 1 (Behind the Scenes in Formula 1). Roy met two young women who told him a story about an F1 driver.

As the two tell the story, they were in the paddock at Spa when a marshall gently asked them to leave. Enter the F1 driver, who solves their problem by putting down the marshall and saying they were his 'fiancées'. Later, he offers to drive them to his hotel (in their Renault 4L) so they can have a hot shower. The girls politely refuse the driver's offer at first, but he insists. He actually makes a scene, insisting he has no hidden intentions.

'But I'm racing tomorrow! Do you think we spent all this time going round and round today just for fun? Qualifying's tomorrow!'

So, the girls accept his offer. He drives like a nutcase (nothing abnormal for an F1 driver here). Roy actually quotes them '[...]he drove like the 4L was the last thing out of McLaren's pitbox[...]', so I don't know if he's toying with his readers or actually identifying a driver. In any case, later in the evening the driver tried his luck.


'Have you ever been in a threesome?...' :cat:

#23 ivandjj

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 13:34

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
it was meant to be playing mindgames with Nelson.


txh for 1st hand comfirmation :)
you meant to say carlos there i guess?

regarding nelson, he is on front page of one autosprint in 98' sitting on the grid in f3 car with blonde standing beside his car wearing arisco cap and a pair of sandals. dont think alistair was involved there, mybe only his effects ;)

#24 ensign14

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 13:57

Thinking about the first post, it says a lot for F1 journalism that someone who would willingly cheat on his wife on a race weekend and betray the trust of his team manager is hailed as a paragon who works for his team, whereas someone who has stayed faithful to the same woman for 30 years and never took out a rival to win a World Title is derided as a graceless whinger.

#25 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 19:07

Andrew, the proposed book is why I have the story on record. I first knew Alistair through work on radio and know that he is a master story teller. His delivery is deadpan and his timing is perfect.

I envy you hearing his stories 20 years on because he must have released a few more.

In 1984 I went to see Alistair with the idea of writing a book and we cobbled together about 5,000 words as a taster. We had 'There's a gorilla in the room', 'Denny, chew my ear', we had the Italian TV pit stop competition and Nelson qualifying underweight for the 1981 Brazilian GP.

We are going back more than 20 years when motor racing was not a widely-publicised sport. There was really only Motor Racing Publications to whom to send the outline. I duly sent the 5,000 words and when I met up with John Blunsden, he said, "I see two problems here: it may be you have sent me a few gems and the rest will be padding: the other problem is that all 100,000 words will be like that."

Alistair did not pull his punches even though I think that he still wanted to be asked to return. He then turned a good idea into a serious business and good for him.

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 23:28

Originally posted by ensign14
Thinking about the first post, it says a lot for F1 journalism that someone who would willingly cheat on his wife on a race weekend and betray the trust of his team manager is hailed as a paragon who works for his team, whereas someone who has stayed faithful to the same woman for 30 years and never took out a rival to win a World Title is derided as a graceless whinger.


Well put...

But it's not just F1 journalism that slides that low... it's popular journalism world wide.

#27 petefenelon

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 09:55

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
...the other problem is that all 100,000 words will be like that.


If Jo Ramirez's book succeeds (which it deserves to do as it's a superb read full of insight and wit) then maybe the time's come for Alistair to tell his stories....

#28 Henri Greuter

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 11:10

The first incident `smells`like Nelson Piquet: he had a habit of doing more so called jokes which involved human excretia either of himself or others.


Henri

#29 Henri Greuter

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 11:46

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
from the "Ask Nigel" section, i was checking out questions on the F1 scene of the 80s, one of the subjects was on Misbehaving Drivers, and Nigel Roebuck wrote the following 2 incidents:

Then there was the occasion when a team manager, on the morning of a race, left his briefcase at his hotel, and returned to collect it. Upon doing, he was disappointed, shall we say, to find his wife entertaining the team's number one driver.

Made for a somewhat frosty atmosphere, that. Later in the day we were astonished when the driver, most untypically, had a coming-together with a rival, and was out on the spot. It wasn't until much later, upon learning of the earlier events in the day, that we understood that just possibly his mind had been elsewhere that afternoon... "


thanks alot
Louis




Though there is something that makes this resemble to the Prost sitation, something is not correct if we take Roebuck's comment to the detail.
Prost didn't retire on the spot at Zandvoort that race, Piquet did. But Prost went on for a little longer with damaged front wings. But he didn't make it to the pits.

So....


Henri

#30 Twin Window

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 12:34

It is Prost/Larrousse/Zandvoort, Henri.

I was working on Autosport at the time, and remember quite well Nigel telling me what had happened.

#31 Henri Greuter

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 12:42

Originally posted by Twin Window
It is Prost/Larrousse/Zandvoort, Henri.

I was working on Autosport at the time, and remember quite well Nigel telling me what had happened.



OK,

I suspected it anyway but then, Roebuck wasn't entirely correct when stating this driver retired on the spot.

Henri

#32 Ibsey

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 21:38

from the "Ask Nigel" section, i was checking out questions on the F1 scene of the 80s, one of the subjects was on Misbehaving Drivers, and Nigel Roebuck wrote the following 2 incidents:

"I remember, too, the driver who, having taken rather too much post-race liquid refreshment, returned to his pit in the evening, and proceeded to pee all over the engine which had let him down that day. He might have got away with, but sadly it was in front of his major sponsor and his wife...


I was just wondering whether anyone knows anymore about this incident?

To me, it sound's like something Piquet would do?

#33 Gary C

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 21:47

see post #2 !!

#34 giacomo

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 21:48

I was just wondering whether anyone knows anymore about this incident?

To me, it sound's like something Piquet would do?

The hint might be 'having taken rather too much post-race liquid refreshment'. I heard a lot of things about Piquet but nothing ever about him being shitfaced at race weekends.

#35 Ibsey

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 23:03

see post #2 !!


I believe Post #2 refers to the Alain Prost, entertaining his team managers wife story. However I am enquiring about the other story mentioned in the orginal post. The one of the driver who...

"having taken rather too much post-race liquid refreshment, returned to his pit in the evening, and proceeded to pee all over the engine which had let him down that day. He might have got away with, but sadly it was in front of his major sponsor and his wife..."

Unless you also saying that this was Alain Prost in 1983 as well?

If not, I do not believe any further clues or detail has been given into this story within this thread yet?

Edited by Ibsey, 08 March 2010 - 23:13.


#36 rallen

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 23:04

The hint might be 'having taken rather too much post-race liquid refreshment'. I heard a lot of things about Piquet but nothing ever about him being shitfaced at race weekends.


It sounds like Hunt, but it the wrong decade! Bah!

#37 rallen

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 23:08

Thinking about the first post, it says a lot for F1 journalism that someone who would willingly cheat on his wife on a race weekend and betray the trust of his team manager is hailed as a paragon who works for his team, whereas someone who has stayed faithful to the same woman for 30 years and never took out a rival to win a World Title is derided as a graceless whinger.


Brilliant comment, I am constantly fed up being made to feel like a social pariah because I never liked Prost - this sums up how I feel completely - that and 1993 when he came back for one season only on the condition he was number one in the best car with a clause in his contract to stop anyone of calibre (Senna/Mansell) racing against him so he could put minimum effort in and get a WDC then retire again. Even Frank Williams said at the time he never felt he knew how quick Prost could have been and they never saw the best of him.

#38 rateus

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 23:53

Roy met two young women who told him a story about an F1 driver.

As the two tell the story, they were in the paddock at Spa when a marshall gently asked them to leave. Enter the F1 driver, who solves their problem by putting down the marshall and saying they were his 'fiancées'. Later, he offers to drive them to his hotel (in their Renault 4L) so they can have a hot shower. The girls politely refuse the driver's offer at first, but he insists. He actually makes a scene, insisting he has no hidden intentions.

'But I'm racing tomorrow! Do you think we spent all this time going round and round today just for fun? Qualifying's tomorrow!'

So, the girls accept his offer. He drives like a nutcase (nothing abnormal for an F1 driver here). Roy actually quotes them '[...]he drove like the 4L was the last thing out of McLaren's pitbox[...]', so I don't know if he's toying with his readers or actually identifying a driver. In any case, later in the evening the driver tried his luck.


Reminds me of Rene Arnoux who, after failing to qualify in Belgium (Zolder, not Spa) in 1981, gave a local policeman a lift back to his hotel - on the bonnet of his car! :rotfl:

Given the alledged reason for his sacking from Ferrari in 1985, it wouldn't surprise me if he was the mystery man here as well.

#39 ghinzani

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:08

Old Prost didnt have the best of reputations, what with boning his erstwhile best pal Jacques Laffites missus too.

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#40 giacomo

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 14:44

Brilliant comment, I am constantly fed up being made to feel like a social pariah because I never liked Prost - this sums up how I feel completely - that and 1993 when he came back for one season only on the condition he was number one in the best car with a clause in his contract to stop anyone of calibre (Senna/Mansell) racing against him so he could put minimum effort in and get a WDC then retire again. Even Frank Williams said at the time he never felt he knew how quick Prost could have been and they never saw the best of him.

Many people did not like Prost.

Btw, there was no anti-Mansell clause in his 93 Williams contract; it was Mansell who priced himself out.
Prost knew since 1990 that he was able to handle Mansell.

#41 Aloisioitaly

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 15:10

Brilliant comment, I am constantly fed up being made to feel like a social pariah because I never liked Prost - this sums up how I feel completely - that and 1993 when he came back for one season only on the condition he was number one in the best car with a clause in his contract to stop anyone of calibre (Senna/Mansell) racing against him so he could put minimum effort in and get a WDC then retire again. Even Frank Williams said at the time he never felt he knew how quick Prost could have been and they never saw the best of him.


Actually this is not true. The only cluase was about Senna. Prost was fed up with Senna behaviour and i dpn't blame him for it: he was almost killed two times by the brazilian, he was betrayed, he was forced to leave the best team... Since spring 1989 he said he didn't want to share anything with Senna.

#42 seccotine

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 18:15

Thinking about the first post, it says a lot for F1 journalism that someone who would willingly cheat on his wife on a race weekend and betray the trust of his team manager is hailed as a paragon who works for his team, whereas someone who has stayed faithful to the same woman for 30 years and never took out a rival to win a World Title is derided as a graceless whinger.


Are you serious??!?

#43 ensign14

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 20:12

Are you serious??!?

Er, yes. Who is better for the team? A driver who complains but gets the job done, or someone who has sex with the wives of fellow employees?

#44 seccotine

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 20:28

Er, yes. Who is better for the team? A driver who complains but gets the job done, or someone who has sex with the wives of fellow employees?


What about a driver who complains but have the job done and who also happens (evil, evil man) to have sex with the wives of fellow employees?

#45 ensign14

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 21:09

Well, in one case, the team died 2 years afterwards, so...

#46 rallen

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 21:33

Many people did not like Prost.

Btw, there was no anti-Mansell clause in his 93 Williams contract; it was Mansell who priced himself out.
Prost knew since 1990 that he was able to handle Mansell.


I know there was no anti-Mansell clause - however the whole thing was done in such a way as to make sure Mansell wouldn't be driving for the team in 1993. All Prost needed to do was turn up in the best team with no credible opposition and not even try that hard to boost his statistics, be dull and then retire with a certain 4th WDC

#47 pertti_jarla

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:37

He also used to keep a collection of, er, well the findings from his nose, added to each other under the dash panel.


In a 1/12 scale model these can easily be reproduced by little balls of putty.


#48 stuartbrs

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:25

What about a driver who complains but have the job done and who also happens (evil, evil man) to have sex with the wives of fellow employees?


You`d be ok with a driver sleeping with your wife behind your back then????????? At first I thought the Ralf Schumacher/Alain Prost comaprison was bad enough in the other Prost thread.. but this one tops it quite significantly!

Edited by stuartbrs, 10 March 2010 - 08:28.


#49 seccotine

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:16

You`d be ok with a driver sleeping with your wife behind your back then????????? At first I thought the Ralf Schumacher/Alain Prost comaprison was bad enough in the other Prost thread.. but this one tops it quite significantly!


This is insane.
My mife isn't concerned. So what is the point? Here, we are just talking of a young guy who was full of life and enjoyed his. And who knows how well the other couple was going? Etc. And above all, that isn't our business.
Just another of those legends about racing that we like to hear about. Twin Windows wans't judgemental when he confirmed that story and he was entirely right.
And if this had been about James Hunt, it wouldn't have caused such a fuss.

Plus that one :
"I know there was no anti-Mansell clause - however the whole thing was done in such a way as to make sure Mansell wouldn't be driving for the team in 1993. All Prost needed to do was turn up in the best team with no credible opposition and not even try that hard to boost his statistics, be dull and then retire with a certain 4th WDC"

Now, the conspiration. When Prost isn't Napoleon, he is Machiavel. Sigh.
Well, people may not like Prost (why so much disdain, by the way?), but knowing how much better than Mansell he was at Ferrari, it is clear he didn't fear him at all. No possible doubt. Remember Rosberg, who was constantly inferior to Prost during their days at McLaren and who, instead of looking for excuses, became Prost's greatest fan.
So if any clause exists, it is as with the sex-with-the-boss's-wife affair : we don't know the whole story and that it is time to stop justify personal prejudices with twisted facts that prove nothing but ideological biases.

#50 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
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  • 2,164 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:56

One very simple rule applies: if someone is fuzzy with his wording, ignore what he said (or wrote). The quotes in post #1 are just the insignificant ramblings of someone who either knows shit, or doesn't have the guts to clearly speak his mind. In either case, it's not worth getting hot about it.

Edited by Michael Ferner, 10 March 2010 - 09:57.