Originally posted by Henri Greuter
No problem Henry. It ain't personal you know and I won't make personal attacks on someone personal, even if I don't agree with him.
But sticking to that, is that referring to not discussing (or wanting to discuss) your thoughts any further or sticking to the opinion that Sachs and the others had more than enough opportunities to avoid colliding with Dave?
Because, after having seen the accident another time, the fact alone that you suggest that drivers should have come to a standstill in time to avoid a collision appears next to impossible for me. You actually want a bunch of cars to stop on a part of the track where a massive trail of fire is "occupying the parking space".
No way that drivers wanted to park close to a fire with how many cars being hidden in and which could explode any moment.
I mentioned Bobby Unser before. In one of his interviews he stated that once he realized he couldn't stop in time anymore that he actually floored it in an attempt to gain as much speed and momentum as possible in order to get through and should he run into something, that the momentum he had would clear him from the fire. Which pretty much happened to him.
I know that poor Dave got way too much bad press and opinions loaded upon him and some of that will hopefully be taken away from him, for example about him being guilty of Eddie's death.
But: your opinion on the drivers who ran into Dave is too hard I think. And I am pretty sure I am not alone in that opinion. I don't rate Dave guilty of anything related with Sachs. But if comes to who has more responsibility for the death of Eddie Sachs, Eddie himself or Dave. Then I think Dave has contributed more to that than Eddie did himself. I feel that Dave didn't do anything wrong that makes it a direct responsibility, but the death of Eddie can be traced back to circumstances related with Dave's accident. And there seems to be more than enough evidence that Dave kind of got himself into the accident because of his own doings, defendeable, understandable or not.
McGuire's conclusion is probably the closest to the truth that anybody can write it down. We have only mere details left to add to it. Unless new sources of info appear. But the chances of this to happen are decreasing rapidly I'm affraid. This debate is going on for such a long time by now (Still enjoy it!) that one would assume that it must be known lang enough within the world of historians and knowledgeable people who do know more must have stepped forward by now.
Henri, my delivery is not always proper and usually is direct. Sorry, but that is simply me.
As a group we have explored many aspects of this accident(s) but for some reason it has become taboo to admit possible mis-judgement by cars involved in the second impact. This possible mis-judgement had very serious results and I simply felt we needed to dive into that portion of this very horrible day.
We have discussed suspensions, fuel cells, driving styles, racings lines, car construction, air flow, owners, drivers not involved in the accident, etc. but the subject involving veteran drivers possibly making mistakes seems to push the envelop just a bit too much. And, of course, I never suggested that on coming traffic had time to stop, just possibly, maybe, they had time after the initial wall impact to gather up past experiences and proceed realizing full well that a major wreck was in process involving fire, an infield wall known to send cars back on track, and realize this was only the second lap in a five hundred mile event. I just can not seem to accept the fact that Dave was possibly the only driver making bad decisions. Maybe no driver was making bad decisions. Perhaps it is just racing.
I do very deeply regret statements that indicate the MacDonald's have been directing this thread. Nothing is further from the truth. And, I do deeply regret the thead has resulted in name calling simply because I decided to ask questions and make comments about the accident(s). I know of no other place that a motorsports fan can go to get such a detailed account of this accident. Some good stuff, some bad stuff, some maybe stuff and some "no way that could happen" stuff. For that we should all take some amount of pride. I still have questions but current direction of this discussion will prohibit those answers being realized.
Henri, I think the beginning sentence in your paragraph four sums things up. Four decades is an extremely long time for questions (even direct questions) to go unanswered or at least attempt to be answered. Some individuals have completely removed themselves from this subject (in some cases for 44 years), yet we keep digging and in some cases keep digging very deep to search for answers that possibily, just possibily, might give individuals some sense of peace.
I am not yet there.
I agree that McGuire has put up the most productive statement in the entire thread.
Thanks to all and I will not stick my head in the ground.
Now, about that electrical fire in the Thompson car....................................... :