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1935 European Championship


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#1 Leif Snellman

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Posted 17 August 2000 - 10:34

In the book "Maserati a history" Anthony Pritchard comes up with the following interesting results for the 1935 championship (page 83).


Caracciola  16

Fagioli	 22

Brauchitsch 31

Dreyfus	 35

Nuvolari	37

von Stuck   37

Chiron	  40

Varzi	   40

The 1935 championship results using the "traditional" points system are quite different.
Now, either Pritchard's source use another points system or then there are more races included than those listed by Nixon/Higham (Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Spain)A natural choice would be the Monaco and the French GPs. Let's see what happens when we add those two races:


						   B  D CH  I  E  TOTAL  M   F TOTAL

Caracciola  Mercedes-Benz  1  3  1  5  1  11	 5   1  17

Fagioli	 Mercedes-Benz  2  4  2  7  2  17	 1   4  22  

Stuck	   Auto Union	 8  2  4  1  6  21	 8   7  36

Nuvolari	Alfa Romeo	 8  1  4  5  6  24	 5   6  35

Brauchitsch Mercedes-Benz  6  4  7  5  3  25	 7   2  34

Rosemeyer   Auto Union	 8  4  3  6  4  25	 8   6  39

Dreyfus	 Alfa Romeo	 4  8  4  2  8  26	 2   8  36

Varzi	   Auto Union	 8  4  4  7  4  27	 8   4  39 

Chiron	  Alfa Romeo	 3  7  7  8  4  29	 4   7  40

Now compare the results:


			 PRITCH  NEW

Caracciola   16	 17	

Fagioli	  22	 22	

Brauchitsch  31	 34	

Dreyfus	  35	 36	

Nuvolari	 37	 35	

Stuck		37	 36	

Chiron	   40	 40	 

Varzi		40	 39  

Rosemeyer   >40	 39

You can see it isn't an exact fit, in fact there are differences for almost all drivers but they are minor ones.
Von Brauchitsch's 31 points instead of 34 could be a simple copying/printing error. In any case I tried to make the table with other races such as the Tripoli and Czech GPs but no combination seems to fit better than the Monaco/France combination.

I noticed that Pritchard uses the name von Stuck instead of Stuck in the table and I see it as an indication that the table was copied directly from some older source. ("Von Stuck" was used by the British motor press in the 30s.) To me it looks like someone sometimes somehere put (or at least made an attempt to put) together a championship table with the Monaco and French GPs included.

Question:
Could it be that the Monaco and French GPs indeed WERE included in the initial scoring and then excluded later after that the French Automobile Club did not approve of the championship.
Or what proof do we really have that they indeed WERE excluded?
Comments, anyone?


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#2 Marcel Schot

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Posted 17 August 2000 - 13:08

The fit is indeed the best by far. 2 drivers spot on and except for 3 all others just 1 point apart. Maybe these marginal differences could be caused by retirements near 25%,50% and 75% marks of the races? In other words : how sure are the laps of retirement?

Caracciola was within a few laps of the 50% mark in Italy and so was von Brauchitsch. Stuck was very close to 50% in Spain, while Nuvolari was close to 50% at Monaco and 25% in Spain. Von Brauchitsch was also near 50% in Belgium. Varzi was somewhat near 25% in Italy and Chiron was around 25% in France and Germany. All sort of borderline cases, where small differences might put the numbers right.

#3 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 18 August 2000 - 05:34

In the Eighties, I made up my own lists of the European Championships with help of references, shown below. Around that time, I acquired Pritchard’s Maserati book, and came across his 1935 championship table. This was off course highly interesting for me. Later, I read Chris Nixon’s two accounts and had correspondence with Paul Sheldon about this topic. I found differences from mine to Sheldon’s and Nixon’s records. This was not surprising because, having done my own, I knew what was involved. They dealt with a very complicated system and therefore it was easy to slip up. Last December I 'discovered' Leif’s wonderful website with detailed results plus records of the European Championship, which made it extremely attractive for me.

The following references about the 1935 European Championship are from my files and may be of interest to you.

Allgemeine Automobil-Zeitung No 42, page 10, October 19, 1935 (Translated from German)
...The most successful driver of the year was Rudolf Caracciola, who became victor in four grands prix. The established order, from the Sporting Committee of the AIACR, of the contestants for the European Championship has the following appearance: Caracciola, Fagioli, v. Brauchitsch, Dreyfus, Stuck, Nuvolari, Varzi, and Chiron, whereby Stuck and Nuvolari as well as Varzi and Chiron each have point equality...(written by Marten)

Motor und Sport, No 16, page 27, April 19, 1936 (Translated from German)
Regulation of the European Championship for cars 1935.
In former years different parties kept themselves occupied to establish ranking lists of race drivers, which in most cases produced an absolutely unclear, even misleading picture, as the events were picked quite at random.
In order to regulate this disorder, the ONS (Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde in Germany) requested at the last AIACR meeting to determine the European Championship through differing aspects. - The AIACR approved this request in the October 1935 meeting and determined for the first time the European Championship, based on the now solely counting point scoring system, awarding the German champion driver Rudolf Caracciola on the basis of his excellent successes with Mercedes-Benz.
For the calculation of the European Championship 1935, the following grands prix are counting:
Grand Prix of Monaco
Grand Prix of France
Grand Prix of Belgium
Grand Prix of Germany
Grand Prix of Switzerland
Grand Prix of Italy
Grand Prix of Spain
For the regulation of the points score, the following system acts as a base:
1. Prize winner in the overall classification 1 point
2. Prize winner in the overall classification 2 points
3. Prize winner in the overall classification 3 points
4. Prize winner in the overall classification 4 points
for the completion of three quarters distance also 4 points
for the completion of half the distance 5 points
for the completion of one quarter the distance 6 points
for the completion of less than one quarter distance 7 points
all drivers which did not start at one of the events 8 points
Hence follows, that the driver with the lowest point score, will be the holder of
the European Championship.


(This is a failed attempt to display the spreadsheet, which came with the report. As far as I remember, it carries at least one mistake in the calculations; its not my typo.)

Grand Prix of Caracciola, Fagioli, v.Brauchitsch, Dreyfus, Stuck, Nuvolari, Varzi, Chiron
Monaco . . 4 1 8 2 8 5 8 4
France . . 1 4 2 7 7 7 4 7
Belgium . . 1 2 4 4 8 8 8 3
Germany . 3 4 4 8 2 1 4 7
Switzerland 1 2 5 4 5 4 4 7
Italy . . . 5 7 5 2 1 5 7 8
Spain . . . 1 2 3 8 6 7 5 4
16 22 31 35 37 37 40 40[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 08-19-2000]

#4 Leif Snellman

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Posted 18 August 2000 - 20:36

Hans,

To show the spreadsheet correctly you must include the CODE tag, see http://www.atlasf1.c...p?action=bbcode for more information.

So if those German magazines chowed the championship with 7 races, whose idea was it that only 5 races had been included?





#5 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 19 August 2000 - 00:47

Nixon on page 62 of 'Silver Arrows, explains why there were only five events, because the AC de France did not accept the rules, which the (GERMAN) ONS had suggested.

I know of no other records but there could be something in the German book by Hans Bretz/Daimler-Benz AG, 'Mannschaft und Meisterschaft - Eine Bilanz der Grand-Prix-Formel 1934-1937' Cologne, 1938. Its a very expensive book. I believe Nixon has it or at least read it and perhaps Karl has it also in his large Library. I was offered the book through mail two years ago for DM 750.- but I declined, not knowing the exact contents of the book.


#6 Leif Snellman

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Posted 20 August 2000 - 19:34

Let me re-formulate the question. If the French and Monaco events were excluded, were both "Motor und Sport" and "Allgemeine Automobil-Zeitung" unaware of that fact? Was Anthony Pritchard also unaware of those facts 40 years later and just copying the tables without knowing what they meant? (Quite possible at the book is pre-Nixon).



#7 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 20 August 2000 - 22:08

This is an excellent question to which I don't have the answer. I have to believe that at the time the articles were written in the German magazines, it was not known that the French and Monaco GP were excluded, otherwise it would have been reported. At the same time, let's not forget that the German press was under tight control by the Nazis and practically everything to be printed needed their approval first. Still, I believe the magazine writers just did not know at that time about the exclusion of Monaco and France. Possibly, after the AIACR had released their figures to the various Clubs after the October 1935 meeting, the ACF may have objected to AIACR's decision and at one of the following meetings raised a big stink. The answer lies most likely in the French automobile magazines, probably in the Swiss AUTOMOBIL-REVUE and possibly in the British magazines or in the German book by Hans Bretz/Daimler-Benz AG, 'Mannschaft und Meisterschaft - Eine Bilanz der Grand-Prix-Formel 1934-1937' Cologne, 1938. I found the German magazines not to be very productive with such information. (BUT I AM STILL SEARCHING!)

I don't know Pritchard's source of information. There existed several British magazines like 'Speed', 'MotorSport' and 'The Autocar', reporting about the Grand Prix scene. I would think that something should be found there in reference to the 1935 Championship. Someone ought to check these magazines, the time frame would be from October 1935 to mid-summer 1936.

I presume that Nixon got his information from the German book by Hans Bretz/Daimler-Benz AG, 'Mannschaft und Meisterschaft - Eine Bilanz der Grand-Prix-Formel 1934-1937' Cologne, 1938. At least he wrote so but I forgot where, probably in his AUTOSPORT article.

I think Karl knows, he must be a walking encyclopaedia.[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 09-04-2000]

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 21 August 2000 - 15:46

Leif & Hans,

Please contact me via email. I think I have something to discuss with the two of you on the Euro Championship. I think it will interest the both of you very much.

#9 karlcars

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Posted 21 August 2000 - 19:13

No, Karl doesn't know, but he would sure like to! The 'European Championship' shows up in so many references that I would dearly love to see a definitive reconciliation of it. I may have some helpful references and if I turn them up I'll be sure to bring them to the party. In the meantime, keep up the great work!

#10 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 04 September 2000 - 08:05

Chris Nixon in his book Racing The Silver Arrows writes on page 63 that the 1935 European Championship was reported in both Speed and MotorSport.

Does anybody have access to these magazines? They could hold the answers to our questions.

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 04 September 2000 - 08:25

If you scroll back in the thread to my post of 8-18-00, you will see my failed attempt to display a spreadsheet. Here is my second effort. It shows the 1935 European Championship table out of MOTOR und SPORT No.16, page 27, April 17, 1936 Best viewed in smallest text size (Please adjust your text size in your View menue.)

[b]Grand Prix   Caracciola Fagioli  Brauchitsch Dreyfus Stuck  Nuvolari   Varzi  Chiron[/b]

Monaco  .  .	4	1	8	2	8	5	8	4

France  .  .	1	4	2	7	7	7	4	7

Belgium  .  .	1	2	4	4	8	8	8	3

Germany  .	3	4	4	8	2	1	4	7

Switzerland	1	2	5	4	5	4	4	7

Italy  .  .  .	5	7	5	2	1	5	7	8

Spain  .  .  .	1	2	3	8	6	7	5	4

			 [b]16	   22	   31	   35	   37	   37	   40		40[/b]
[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 09-04-2000]

#12 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 04 September 2000 - 10:53

Marcor wrote in the 1939 European Championship thread, "About the 1939 Championship, I'm quite sure that you're right. When you shared a car, you never got credit for the laps driven by the other driver."

I am still not absolutely sure about this ruling and so are probably others. The reason for this is that there were no written rules available and one had to figure out how the rules must have worked. As an example I show a list below of the 1935 Belgian GP, where Marcor had translated Delsaux’s remarks about the points scored by Fagioli and von Brauchitsch. I added to these all other 'sources' known to me on the table below. As you can see, the controversy still exists.

The 1935 Belgian GP
  • Von Brauchitsch retired after completion of 15 laps from a total of 34.
  • Fagioli gave up at the pits after completion of 20 laps. Brauchitsch then took over Fagioli’s car, driving the other 14 laps and finishing in second place.

Best viewed in smallest text size. (Please adjust your text size in your View menue.)


[b]Source			 Date	 1935 Belgian GP Points	Annual Total Score

				 [u]Fagioli	Brauchitsch	Fagioli	Brauchitsch[/u][/b]

MOTOR und SPORT*	1936	2	4			  17	21

A.Pritchard *	1976	-	-			  17	21

Hans Etzrodt	1981	5	6			  20	25

Nix(Silver Arrows)	1986	-	-			  20	25

Nixon (Autosport)	1987	5	6			  20	25

Paul Sheldon	1992	2	6			  15	25

Jean-Paul Delsaux	1993	5	6			  -	-

Capps/Snellman	1999	2	6			  17	25

* adjusted score ( deducted Monaco and French GP)

Does anybody have an explanation of how the points should have been awarded in a case like above?[p][Edited by Hans Etzrodt on 09-04-2000]

#13 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 27 December 2000 - 08:42

I found another source, which agrees with the MOTOR und SPORT spreadsheet in my post of 4 September. I was able to check the impartial Swiss AUTOMOBIL-REVUE from 15 October 1935, No.83, page 3, which shows a report about the October meeting of the A.I.A.C.R. One of the items discussed was the settlement of the European Championship, which was awarded to Caracciola. They published the following:

1. Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz), 16 points
2. Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz), 22
3. Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz), 31
4. Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo), 35
5. Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Suck (Auto Union) each 37
7. Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Varzi (Auto Union) each 40

They printed only this brief report without other details, confirming that the A.I.A.C.R. must have awarded the above points total for participation in the following Grandes Épreuves: Monaco - France - Belgium - Germany - Switzerland - Italy - Spain.

In another report from 18 October 1935, in No.84, page 3, it states that on Saturday, 12 October at the great banquet staged by the ACF, Caracciola received the newly created Gold Medal of the A.I.A.C.R.

Furthermore, on 22 October 1935, in No.85, the AUTOMOBIL-REVUE informed their readers about the classification of points, accumulated in above seven Grandes Épreuves. (This has a new twist to it, place five to seven, which I had not seen before.)
1st place = 1 point
2nd place = 2 points
3rd place = 3 points
4th place = 4 points
5th place = 5 points
ect.
7 points received he who did not complete the race.
8 points were given to the driver who did not participate.

On 29 October, in No.87, appeared a report that Caracciola went from Paris to London on the occasion of the Auto Show where he turned up as speaker at several banquets.

This is a great opportunity for those of you, who have access to several British magazines, which must have reported about this news (Motor Sport, Speed and others?). Hopefully someone will come up with a British magazine or newspaper report about the 1935 European Championship. We need more input to find out, on what account Chris Nixon removed two Grandes Épreuves from his 1935 Championship account.

I will return when I find more about this topic in my loot, I just brought back from Europe.



#14 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 February 2001 - 04:13

I just went through this thread and I am embarrassed to discover that I am holding a monologue here. What is with you guys? The following is out of the AUTOMOBIL-REVUE No. 38, pg.3, Friday, 10 May 1935. I found it somewhat puzzling that the European Championship was not yet in effect at the Monaco Grand Prix, the first race of the series, on 22 April 1935. I thought some of you might be interested to know.

On Wednesday, May 8, 1935, the A.I.A.C.R. had held a meeting in Paris to finally decide about the racing formula for the years 1937/38/39.....................

Additionally, the Sporting Commission agreed to create a European Championship. The Automobile Clubs of Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Monaco, England and Switzerland had been ordered to set up the rules and regulations and work out the details for the European championship. This should still be enforced this year, thereby deciding the championship already for the year 1935. Gold Medals will be awarded in a special ceremony.

#15 Leif Snellman

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Posted 12 February 2001 - 11:32

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
I just went through this thread and I am embarrassed to discover that I am holding a monologue here. What is with you guys


Well Hans. You are possible the guy, who has studied this problem more than anyone before you so you are an authority on the subject. So we other don't have much to add. As long as we dont know the source Nixon used for his decision to remove the Monaco and France GPs the problem remains unsolvable.


#16 Barry Lake

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Posted 12 February 2001 - 15:56

Hans
A monologue perhaps, but I am sure many are reading what you are posting with great interest. I know I am.
It is just that you seem to be so far ahead of us all on this subject.
While I have a lot of books that are relevant, I am busy in other areas and just can not make the time to dig them out and read through them.
In any case, I think your research through original sources is probably more thorough than that of the books' authors anyway.

#17 fines

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Posted 12 February 2001 - 20:26

Totally agree with Barry here!

Hans, you are doing a super job here, keep it coming!

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 February 2001 - 01:44

I think it's valid to mention something else, Hans...

Even if it's only you keeping the thread alive, it's there for a newcomer to spot. You never have anything that's not worthwhile to post, and we all read it, but the prospect of a newcomer wandering in and giving you something you are looking for is always there.

As I expect of you, keep up the good work...

#19 FLB

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Posted 15 February 2001 - 01:53

As a newcomer to this wonderful place, I can vouch for what Ray just wrote.

Thank you Hans, my 1930's knowledge isn't nearly what I want it to be yet... but you're helping :)

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#20 YOSSARION

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 14:45

Wasn't the AIACR based in France?
It always struck me as unusual that the (French based?) governing body would ratify a chamionship and then not include the French races. I have taken it as read because it is so widely held a belief, but still it has always puzzled me.

#21 Don Capps

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 15:17

That the AIACR and the CSI were headquartered in France was essentially irrelevant since the French ACN, the ACF, made the call to not participate in the CSI EC series. However, it is easy to see your point....

#22 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 15:40

Welcome to TNF Yossarion!

Yes, the AIACR was of course based in France, but like its successor the FIA it was nominally independent. Without going into probably non-existant minutes of meetings we're unlikely to find out what went on, but the French attitude smacks of the "It's my ball and I'm going home" syndrome which caused them to withdraw the French GP from the whole circus in 1936-7 and run it for sports cars. The exact quote from Nixon:

There is one glaring omission here and that is the French GP which, at that time, was still regarded as the Grand Prix of the year. The reason for its exclusion from the Championship is as simple as it is sad: when the idea was circulated to the clubs concerned, it was accepted by all - with the exception of the AC de France. The reason? The European Championship was the brainchild of the AC von Deutschland ...."

For AvD we can, I suppose, read ONS.

Similarly, remember that Italy withdrew all its races in 1939 and ran them for Voiturettes, where they thought they had more chance.

Cost must have been a factor in this, the utter failure of the SEFAC another. The French had gone from being top dogs to also-rans in just two years and the continued inability of French manufacturers to come up with competitive cars must have been galling, to say the least, especially when they were being steamrollered by the German teams.

Actually, something has just occured to me: in 1936-7, the Monaco GP was part of the European Championship. It was therefore a substitute French GP: if a French car had won it(!), the ACF could have trumpeted its "home" success, but as Monaco is technically not part of France it would matter less if a German or Italian car won it and they could dismiss it as happening abroad ...

#23 Marcor

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Posted 05 October 2001 - 23:26

On Monday 14 October, Les Sports (Belgian newspaper specialised in all sports) published some lines about the European championship. He just wrote:

"The CSI of the AIACR has established the result of the 1935 European championship:

1- Rudi Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz), 16 points
2- Luigi Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz), 22 points
3- Manfred von Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz), 31 points
4- René Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo), 35 points
5- Tazio Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Hans Stuck von Villiez (Auto Union) each 37 points
7- Louis Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Achille Varzi (Auto Union) each 40 points."

It was just a rough result without explanation.

#24 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 06 October 2001 - 07:49

Thanks Marc,
Now we need our Italian, French and Spanish members to tell us what they found in their newpapers. :D

#25 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 24 October 2001 - 06:54

Early on in this thread Leif asked the question "whose idea was it that only 5 races had been included?" and I answered, "Nixon on page 62 of 'Silver Arrows’, explains why there were only five events, because the ACF did not accept the rules, which the (GERMAN) ONS had suggested."

Well, this was over one year ago and finally I found out who had inspired Chris Nixon. End of August I received a postcard from Tony Kaye, at that time in England. It contained long sought after evidence, revealing finally the source from where Chris Nixon obtained his information regarding the withdrawal of the French Grand Prix from the 1935 European Championship. Here the contents of the postcard:

Source – Motorsport November 1935 p26.
“….The A.I.A.C.R. has awarded the 1935 European Champonship to Rudolf Caracciola. Here are the final placings: -
1. Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 16 pts.
2. Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz) 22 pts.
3. von Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz) 31 pts.
4. Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo) 35 pts.
5. Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Stuck (Auto Union) 37 pts.
6. (Sic) Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Varzi (Auto Union) 40 pts.
It is worth pointing out that these results were obtained from five races, the GP of Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland. The French GP is not included, but it makes no difference to the results (sic), for the Mercs finished one-two-three. The reason for this omission is that the idea was originally suggested by the German Club. The ACF did not approve of the idea, and so the championship was decided on the races of those who did.”


In a separate note MotorSport Continued:- “….The Germans and Italians have it all their own way at the meetings of the A.I.A.C.R. and as they provide the big grand prix races, this is only as it should be. The present move "(to retain the 750 kg Formula until 1937)" was suggested by the Italians and endorsed by the Germans.”

Hans,
There was nothing of relevance in the AUTOCAR or MOTOR at this time. LE FIGARO in Paris did not mention the A.I.A.C.R. meeting either.
MotorSport is categorical that only 5 races counted for the championship and provided a convincing argument why the French race was not included. Also Monaco would not have been included, presumably because, since it was not seen as a separate country or CSI delegate, it was not asked for its opinion on the championship.
But the ultimate test of the 5 races vs 7 races must be the point scores. Do the above points tally with 5 or 7? I'll leave that to your arithmetic.....


#26 Leif Snellman

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Posted 24 October 2001 - 11:37

SUMMARY:

The last race of the championship was held on 22 September 1935

On 12 October Caracciola received the newly created Gold Medal of the A.I.A.C.R.

The points score were shown in:
AUTOMOBIL-REVUE from 15 October 1935
Allgemeine Automobil-Zeitung October 19, 1935
Motorsport November 1935
The full table was shown in "Motor und Sport", April 19, 1936
The points score appers 1976 in Anthony Pritchard's "Maserati a history"

The points table is clearly based upon the well known pre-war system with points from 7 races including Monaco and France, NOT on the alternate system showed at AUTOMOBIL-REVUE 22 October 1935 as can be easely proved.

It is NOT based on 5 races as clamed by "Motorsport" November 1935. 5 races with 8 points max means that the max points would be 5*8-1 = 39 points. But there are drivers in the table with 40 points!

Some work with a spreadsheet will show that is not possible to create a believable points system for the 5 races that would give the points scores given, even if you give 2 points for victories and more than 8 points for DNF and DNS.

The points table given by "Motor und Sport" differs from mine first variant on nine occations:

Monaco:  Caracciola	  4-5 DNF 60/65? of 100 laps					

		 von Brauchitsch 8-7 DNF lap 1 					

France   Nuvolari		7-6 DNF 14 of 40 laps					

		 Dreyfus		 7-8 DNS 					

Belgium: von Brauchitsch 4-6 2nd with Fagioli/DNF 15 of 34 laps			

Schweiz: Stuck 			 5-4 11th with Pietsch	57 of 70 laps	

		 von Brauchitsch 5-7 DNF 14 of 70 laps			

Spain:   Nuvolari		7-6 DNF 8 of 30 laps					

		 Varzi		   5-4 DNF with Pietsch 25 of 30 laps
Several of these are margin or trouble cases. Did Nuvolari complete 7 or 8 laps in Spain? Did von Brauchitsch complete
a single lap in Monaco? How do you handle shared drives?


Therefore:
Seven races were initially included in the 1935 Championship.
At the end only five races were included but the final points score given to the press still included points from 7 races.
Was that sloppiness or perhaps the sweet secret revenge from a French AIACR member?

#27 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 25 October 2001 - 10:54

Originally posted by Leif Snellman
.....How do you handle shared drives?.....

The basic rule was that drivers scored only points with the car in which they had started the race. When drivers shared the same car, only the first driver scored and was credited with the position his car finished in the race. The second driver received no points for his efforts if he had not started in the race (reserve drivers). If the second driver had started the race in another car, then the laps he had driven in the shared car counted and were added to his tally.

Lets look at the four shared drives during the Belgian Grand Prix and apply above rules.

Fagioli, although driving only 22 of the 34 total laps, received 2 points because the Mercedes he started with was to come second = 2 points. Brauchitsch then took over Fagioli's car, drove another 12 laps, but would not score in this car (and no share of second place in points).

von Brauchitsch completed only 15 laps before the engine of his Mercedes broke = 6 points for completing only 1/4 distance. But he also drove 12 laps in Fagioli's Mercedes, which brings his tally (15 + 12) to 27 laps and therefore he received 4 points because he had now completed ¾ distance (26 laps), although in two different cars.

Dreyfus completed 31 laps before the Alfa Romeo was taken over by Marinoni who drove 3 further laps. Dreyfus received 4 points for coming fourth but would have also received 4 points had his race ended at 31 laps because at that time he had already completed ¾ of the race, which was awarded also with 4 points.

Marinoni was reserve driver and had not started in the race. He took over Dreyfus' Alfa near the end of the race, drove for three laps and received 8 points for his effort. However, he shared fourth place with Dreyfus.

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 10:15

Okay gentlemen, it's bombshell time! Thanks to Hans and Tony finding that reference in Motor Sport, I used that as a jumping-off point for a search of British magazines for 1935 (Hans very kindly sent it to me a few days before posting it here). In Nixon's 1987 article there is an ambiguous statement: "But it was only at the end of the year that the AIACR announced that there would be a drivers' European Championship for 1935". This has always been read as referring to having been announced in 1934, but once I saw the Motor Sport reference, I realised that Nixon almost certainly meant 1935, since his premise that the French GP was excluded on the grounds that the Championship was a German idea also comes from the November 1935 Motor Sport quote – Pritchard has used the same quote. So - in view of the evidence already found regarding May 8th 1935, Nixon and Pritchard must be wrong, as they have assumed that the championship was calculated backwards and the winner announced at the same time as the championship itself.

Here is what I found, in chronological order:

The Motor, Feb 12th 1935 p72

French Grand Prix Prizes

The ACF Grand Prix is to be held at Montlhery over 40 laps (500kms) on June 23. Entries limited to four factory or authorised representative's cars per marque. Entries opened February 1 and close March 15. Prizes 100,000frs, 50,000frs, 20,000frs and 10,000frs, plus lap prizes to discourage loitering in the early stages of the race.

Note the closing date for entries and compare to the probable dates for the British and German suggestions below

Motor Sport April 1935 p236

A European Driving Championship?
An interesting item discussed by the Sporting Commission of the RACI [ie RAC] was that of reviving the European Championship for drivers. The last holder, it will be remembered, was Robert Benoist.
The scheme is being forwarded to the AIACR for consideration.

Motor Sport May 1935 p315

A European Championship
Following on my note last month anent the suggestion of the RACI that the European Championship for drivers should be revived, I now hear that the German Sporting Commission has put up the idea of holding the championship for cars once more, based on the results of the national GP races. Before submitting it to the AIACR, the German people asked the opinion of the RACI, and the latter having approved, it may presumably be taken for granted that the idea will be accepted, at the meeting of the International Sporting Commission in Paris on May 8th.

The Motor, May 14th 1935 p664

....An International Championship

Other resolutions were passed at the same meeting [of the CSI]. First, there is to be an International Drivers' Championship, determined by the results of certain Grands Prix of this year (barring the French Grand Prix, in which independent drivers are not eligible to compete). ...

Motor Sport June 1935 p361 (report on AIACR meeting of May 8th 1935)

The New Formula
"...
As I forecast two months ago, the AIACR has revived the championship for drivers. A certain number of races will be taken into account, and a gold medal will be presented to the winner of the most points.
..."

Speed June 1935 p37

"The AIACR is to present a gold medal to the driver putting up the best performance in this year's Grand Prix events. The French Grand Prix is excluded, as it is open only to entries by manufacturers."

Speed November-December 1935 p343

"Rudolf Caracciola, member of the Mercedes-Benz team, has been declared champion of Europe, with a total of 16 points. Next in order were his team mates, Fagioli and Von Brauchitsch, with 22 and 31 points, respectively, followed by Dreyfus (35), Nuvolari and Stuck (37 each) and Varzi and Chiron (40 each)"


So, the French reason for non-participation is nothing to do with les Boches, although perhaps they used it as an excuse – entries for the French GP had already closed, nearly two months before the meeting that agreed the format of the Championship (the Motor Sport quote from June implies that the scoring system had not yet been determined, since it talks about “the most points” – had they known it was a minus system, they would surely have said something like “the best score”). Now, by extension, we can also see that the Monaco GP would have been excluded as well, since it was by invitation of the AC de Monaco only and invitations were only sent to factory or factory-supported teams. I also had the opportunity to check the French magazine La Vie Automobile, which devotes two-thirds of a page to the new formula determined at the May 8th meeting, but says absolutely nothing about the Championship. Indeed, there is a passage, almost certainly written by Charles Faroux, which seems to be softening up the French public for the 1936 sports car GP, although that would not be announced for another couple of months!

And, as regards the scoring, I’m afraid we are back to square one!! The scores are not reported in Motor or Autocar, but in October, both were more concerned with the Paris Salon and the London Motor Show.

#29 alessandro silva

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 10:27

Very interesting!
I want to point out only that RACI was the Italian Auto Club not "i.e. RAC". RACI means Reale Automobil Club Italiano. It seems (see WC 1925) that the imput for these Championship often came from the Italians.

#30 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 10:49

On reflection, you may very well be right, Alessandro. I had assumed it was shorthand for RACGBI, but the phrase "Sporting Commission" doesn't gel well in a British context. Mea culpa!

So, what does Italy have to say on this in May/June 1935? Or were they perhaps too preoccupied with events elsewhere?

#31 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 11:36

Vitesse 2,
I am impressed. :up: :up: :up:
Finally an 'Englander' has discovered the value of their fine library system. :lol: :lol: :lol:

#32 Don Capps

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 12:16

Whoa, Nellie!!

What a great piece of work this is guys! I am genuinely impressed by how all of you have tracked this to ground and now have given us a much clearer idea of the story.

My thanks to all in what has to be proof positive that collaborative research can work and work well.

:up: :up: :up: :up:

#33 fines

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Posted 26 October 2001 - 20:38

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Motor Sport April 1935 p236

A European Driving Championship?
An interesting item discussed by the Sporting Commission of the RACI [ie RAC] was that of reviving the European Championship for drivers. The last holder, it will be remembered, was Robert Benoist.

Interesting, but what about Louis Chiron (1928/30), Ferdinando Minoia (1931) and Tazio Nuvolari (1932)? To say nothing about quoted champions in 1933 (Chiron or Nuvolari) and 1934 (Stuck or Chiron)! Just goes to show that these Championships back then were "low profile" affairs...

Richard, you did a superb job! :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: If there's anywhere to illuminate this particular obscure subject of Racing History, then it's TNF!

#34 Leif Snellman

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Posted 29 October 2001 - 09:43

Wonderful job Vitesse 2! :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

In a way Richard's research has made the whole thing even more mysterious as we now know there was no reason for including the Monaco and French GP in the points table. If they had been excluded later, it would be easier to explain that someone forgot to remove them from the final results.

Fines. I once used the 1935 rules on the 1934 season including the Monaco and French GP. I don't know what happened to my table, but the unofficial winner was indeed Chiron, a bit of surprise as Stuck often is mentioned as the unofficial 1934 champion.

#35 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 28 November 2001 - 07:56

Leif,
Does this 1934 unofficial scoring table look acceptable to you or do you have different figures for Spain? :)
[b][u]GP of	Stuck	Chiron[/u][/b]

Monaco	8	2

France	4	1

Germany	1	3

Belgium	8	5

Schweiz	1	5

Italy	2	4

[u]Spain	4	5[/u]

[b]Total	28	25[/b]


#36 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 10 January 2003 - 09:20

While chasing for mountain climb data through my old magazines I came across this interesting statement in the 1935 MOTOR und SPORT, No. 43, p.26 of October 27, 1935.

".....to create a uniform scoring system, the ONS has proposed a private bill to the CSI, to create a European Championship scoring system of official character. The motion of Germany carried and on the basis of the new scoring system, Rudolf Caracciola on Mercedes-Benz was nominated as European Champion for the year 1935. – It would be desirable if the ONS would publish in their announcements the fundamentals of this scoring system, so that the point regulations would be widely known."

According to this snippet, the scoring system was not yet known on October 27, 1935 – at least not in Germany.

#37 Felix Muelas

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Posted 10 January 2003 - 09:27

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
...It would be desirable if the ONS would publish in their announcements the fundamentals of ... scoring system, so that the point regulations would be widely known

A sign of the times to come?
Thanks Hans...

#38 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 11 January 2003 - 22:52

Felix - very wise observation. In 1935 the ONS was already under tight control, a pawn of the Nazi Regime.

There was a difference however. While it was still possible for a little opposing voice (MOTOR und SPORT) to criticize the ONS in 1935, this was unthinkable by 1939 with stricter censorship in place. Certain activities of the Gestapo were well known and put fears in the hearts of the population. People disappeared, never to be seen again, always during night.

#39 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 22:26

No ingenious comment intended this time, Hans.

Just noticing how curious it is that both the 1935 and 1939 issues concerning the Championship seem to be connected through a common element : the lack of knowledge by us of the "fundamentals" used by the ONS in the calculations...Same organisation, same man at the top, certainly one of those historical coincidences that, seen from the angle of the 1935 text that you unearthed, sounds like an omen.

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#40 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 20:22

Revisiting this thread after many years because I believe an agreeable answer was never reached as to how many events formed the official 1935 European Championship score.

I accidently found proof of the first mention of such a championship while binding my 1934 magazine pages into separate volumes. In the AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1934, Dec 11, No.100, pg.3 under the title "International sport questions" it states that the sub-committee of the International Sporting Commission [CSI] convened at a significant conference on December 3 in Paris. Although the commission dealt primarily with the international regulations of the regular touring cars, there was more discussed.

CSI members present were not mentioned in this clip but at this time it consisted of the gentlemen Fritsch (Germany), Baron Nothomb and Langlois (Belgium), Sparrow and Bradley (USA), de Knyff and Pérouse (France), Lindsay Lloyd (Great Britain), Mercanti (Italy), Princ Ghycka (Romania) and Decrauzat (Switzerland).

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1934, Dec 11, No.100, pg.3
"Furthermore, the commission acknowledged a proposal presented by the Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde for the German motorization [ONS]. This suggests the creation of an international championship for race drivers for whom a number of important races are applicable; the evaluation will be determined according to a certain point system. The project provides not only a championship for drivers but at the same time also one for makes. As is generally known, a so-called “International Mountain Championship”already existed repeatedly in modest form. This championship should now be expanded to all international races."

#41 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:30

The second time the 1935 European Championship was reported about was in March of 1935, when this matter was discussed by the RACI (Reale Automobile Club d’Italia). They drew up in detail the regulations for this championship to be presented at the planned CSI Spring Conference at the beginning of May in Berlin. But the Berlin meeting never took place when the A.I.A.C.R. changed their mind to meet in Paris. Below follow three clips which show what in fact was reported about these happenings.

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, March 26, No.25, pg.3
Important decisions of the Italian Sporting Commission. Contents about:…The regulations for the European Automobile Championship for the automobile drivers were drawn up to be presented in all details to the International Sporting Commission in Berlin…

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, March 29, No.26, pg.3
The spring conference of the International Sporting Commission (CSI) of the A.I.A.C.R. was originally fixed at the beginning of May in Berlin. Surprisingly now come news from Paris that this meeting is not in Berlin but as usual will take place in Paris. One is looking towards this meeting with great suspense, since it should bring the decision about the new racing formula, which will come into force from 1937-1939.

MOTOR SPORT, (London) April 1935, p236
A European Driving Championship? An interesting item discussed by the Sporting Commission of the RACI (Reale Automobile Club d’Italia) was that of reviving the European Championship for drivers. The last holder, it will be remembered, was Robert Benoist. [sic] The scheme is being forwarded to the AIACR for consideration.


#42 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 16:13

The CSI spring meeting took place on May 8, 1935 in Paris, attended by the delegates from Belgium, France, Monaco, Germany, England, the United States, Italy, Spain and Switzerland. Besides the new formula the 1935 Championship was discussed and the CSI revived the European Championship to be enforced in 1935. The Automobile Clubs of Monaco, France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and England had been ordered to set up the rules and regulations and work out the details. These clubs were practically the same whose seven national Grand Prix races would form the 1935 European Championship, namely Monaco, France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Spain. It should also be noted that the Monaco GP on April 22 had taken place before the CSI enforced the European Championship on May 8, 1935.

Below follow five news clippings to support the statements of the above paragraph. The last two news briefs, which are from “The Motor” and “Speed”, contain questionable remarks about the French GP. It is significant that none of this was mentioned in the comparable Motor Sport or AUTOMOBIL-REVUE reports. Both of these magazines reported in more length and depth but did not point out any of these hypothetical would-be problems with the French GP, probably because this was a non-existing issue. Therefore it is plausible that the remark in the Motor was simply an assumption by the writer and actually not valid in this case, while the author from “Speed” could have just “copied” The Motor news brief.


Motor Sport, May 1935, p315
"A European Championship. Following on my note last month at the suggestion of the RACI that the European Championship for drivers should be revived, I now hear that the German Sporting Commission has put up the idea of holding the championship for cars once more, based on the results of the national GP races. Before submitting it to the AIACR, the German people asked the opinion of the RACI, and the latter having approved it may presumably be taken for granted that the idea will be accepted, at the meeting of the International Sporting Commission in Paris on May 8th."

Motor Sport, June 1935, p361
The New Formula. [A lengthy report, showing here only two extracts related to the CSI meeting of May 8th 1935.] "As I forecast two months ago, the A.I.A.C.R. has revived the championship for drivers. A certain number of races will be taken into account, and a gold medal will be presented to the winner of the most points.”
“The C.S.I. was composed at this all-important session, of Baron Nothomb and M. Langlois (Belgium), Senor Resines and Count de Molina (Spain), Mr. W.F. Bradley (USA), A.Pérouse (France), Mr. O'Gorman and Colonel Lindsay-Lloyd (Great Britain), Grand Officer Mercanti and Signor Dacco (Italy), Prince Ghika (Romania), M. Decrauzat (Switzerland), Colonel Péron and MM. de Berc and Fourreau.”

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, May 10, No.38, pg.3
"On Wednesday [May 8, 1935] the CSI met in Paris to finally decide about the racing formula for the years 1937/38/39. At this important conference took part the delegates from Belgium, France, Germany, England, Monaco, the United States, Italy and Switzerland. The main interest of the conference was about the definition of the racing formula, which had already been the object of in-depth discussions at the Monte Carlo CSI meeting."
"Furthermore, the Sporting Commission [CSI] agreed to create a European Championship. The Automobile Clubs of Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Monaco, England and Switzerland had been ordered to set up the rules and regulations and work out the details for the European championship. This should still be enforced this year, thereby deciding the championship already for the year 1935. Gold Medals will be awarded in a special ceremony."

The Motor, May 14, 1935, p664
"An International Championship. Other resolutions were passed at the same meeting [of the CSI]. First, there is to be an International Drivers' Championship, determined by the results of certain Grands Prix of this year (barring the French Grand Prix, in which independent drivers are not eligible to compete)."

Speed, June 1935, p37
"The AIACR is to present a gold medal to the driver putting up the best performance in this year's Grand Prix events. The French Grand Prix is excluded, as it is open only to entries by manufacturers."

#43 Option1

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 16:52

Wonderful work Hans, thank you!

Neil

#44 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 16:51

The CSI convened for their Paris fall conference on Friday, October 11, 1935. The delegates of the various automobile clubs first established the International Sporting Calendar for 1936, next approved Campbell’s records in Salt Lake City and finally settled the European Championship, which was awarded to Caracciola. The CSI drew up the following classification:
1. Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz),………………………… 16 points.
2. Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz), …………………………… ..22 points.
3. Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz), ……………………..31 points.
4. Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo), ……………………………..…..35 points.
5. Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Stuck (Auto Union), each 37 points.
7. Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Varzi (Auto Union), each ...40 points.
On Saturday, October 12th, at the great AIACR banquet staged by the ACF, Rudolf Caracciola ceremoniously was awarded the title “European Champion 1935” in form of a newly created A.I.A.C.R Gold Medal, which represented the highest award in the international automobile sport.
Below follow five different news clippings, which support the statements made in the above paragraph. While these clippings provide very similar information, there were others that differed and one in particular gave a rather bad twist to the official CSI classification, deluding many individuals in understanding the 1935 European Championship. Regarding this awful mess, which exists to this day, we will have to look at later.

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, October 15, No. 83, pg.3
At the conference of the International Sporting Commission (CSI) of the A.I.A.C.R. on last Friday (October 11, 1935) in Paris, the delegates of the various automobile clubs concentrated their main work with the establishment of the International Sporting Calendar for 1936, which temporarily has only provisional character and was submitted for approval yesterday, on Monday, 14th October, to the General Assembly of the A.I.A.C.R., whose decisions were not yet issued at time of going to press. … (This is followed by particulars of the calendar.)
After setting up the International Sporting Calendar, the Sporting Commission (CSI) concerned themselves next with Campbell’s established records in Salt Lake City and approved those. The settlement of the European Championship followed next, which was awarded to Caracciola. The following classification was drawn up:
1. Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz), 16 points.
2. Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz), 22 points.
3. Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz), 31 points.
4. Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo), 35 points.
5. Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Stuck (Auto Union), each 37 points.
7. Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Varzi (Auto Union), each 40 points.

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, October 18, No.84, pg.3
Rudolf Caracciola – European Champion 1935. Mercedes-Benz gained nine victories in the year 1935, including four double and one triple victory in the hardest international races. Rudolf Caracciola was victorious in the six following races: Grand Prix of Tripolis, International Eifelrennen, Grand Prix of France, Grand Prix of Belgium, Grand Prix of Switzerland, Grand Prix of Spain. He came second in the Mercedes-Benz double victory in the Grand Prix of Barcelona and third in the Grand Prix of Germany. With this victory series, R. Caracciola, who already received the title “German Road Champion 1935”, is the most successful driver of the year.
At the great banquet staged by the ACF on Saturday, October 12, Caracciola ceremoniously was awarded the title “European Champion 1935” in form of the A.I.A.C.R Gold Medal. This newly created medal represents the highest award in the international automobile sport.

Allgemeine Automobil-Zeitung (Berlin) No 42, pg 10, October 19, 1935
The most successful driver of the year was Rudolf Caracciola, who became victor in four grands prix. The established order, from the Sporting Committee of the AIACR, of the contestants for the European Championship has the following appearance: Caracciola, Fagioli, v. Brauchitsch, Dreyfus, Stuck, Nuvolari, Varzi, and Chiron, whereby Stuck and Nuvolari as well as Varzi and Chiron each have point equality....(written by Marten)

Speed November-December 1935 p343
"Rudolf Caracciola, member of the Mercedes-Benz team, has been declared champion of Europe, with a total of 16 points. Next in order were his team mates, Fagioli and Von Brauchitsch, with 22 and 31 points, respectively, followed by Dreyfus (35), Nuvolari and Stuck (37 each) and Varzi and Chiron (40 each)"

MOTOR und SPORT No16, pg.27, April 13, 1936
Regulation of the European Championship for cars 1935 In former years different parties occupied themselves to establish ranking lists of race drivers, which in most cases produced an absolutely unclear, even misleading picture, as the events were picked quite at random.
In order to regulate this disorder, the ONS (Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde in Germany) had requested at the last AIACR meeting to determine the European Championship through differing aspects. - The AIACR approved this request at their October 1935 meeting and determined for the first time the European Championship, based on a point scoring system, which awarded the German champion driver Rudolf Caracciola on the basis of his excellent successes with Mercedes-Benz.
For the calculation of the European Championship 1935, the following grands prix are counting:
Grand Prix of Monaco
Grand Prix of France
Grand Prix of Belgium
Grand Prix of Germany
Grand Prix of Switzerland
Grand Prix of Italy
Grand Prix of Spain
For regulating the points score, the following system acts as base:
1. Prize winner in the overall classification 1 point
2. Prize winner in the overall classification 2 points
3. Prize winner in the overall classification 3 points
4. Prize winner in the overall classification 4 points
for the completion of three quarters distance also 4 points
for the completion of half the distance 5 points
for the completion of one quarter the distance 6 points
for the completion of less than one quarter distance 7 points
all drivers which did not start at one of the events 8 points
Hence follows, that the driver with the lowest point score, will be the holder of
the European Championship.

Grand Prix of Caracciola, Fagioli, Brauchitsch, Dreyfus, Stuck, Nuvolari, Varzi, Chiron
Monaco ..…………. 4………….. 1 …………..8 ………………2 ……8 ………….5 ………..8 ………4
France….. ………….1…………… 4 …………..2 ………………7 ……7 ………….7 ………..4 ….….7
Belgium …………….1…………… 2 …………..4……………….4……...8…………. 8 …………8 ……..3
Germany …………..3………….. 4…………… 4………………8 ……..2…………. 1………….4…….. 7
Switzerland ………1 ……………2 …………….5 ……………4 ……..5 …………..4……….. 4 …….7
Italy ………………….5………….. 7……………. 5……………… 2……1…………. 5 …………7 ……..8
Spain…………………1…………… 2……………. 3……………… 8………6…………. 7……….. 5 ………4
TOTAL POINTS….16………….22…………..31……………35…….37…37…40.
.40 ...........





#45 uechtel

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:40

Very interesting Hans!

The French Grand Prix is excluded, as it is open only to entries by manufacturers.


Do you think this is the true reason or only a flimsy excuse? So far the common explanation (Sheldon et al.) was, that the French did not want to support a championship in which the German opoosition would be dominant.

Also an interesting point for discussion, why was the ACF (and also the RACB of Belgium) generally so refusing against private entries?



#46 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:17

Also an interesting point for discussion, why was the ACF (and also the RACB of Belgium) generally so refusing against private entries?

Exclusivity? Pur sang? My guess would be that it was in the original regulations in 1906, replacing the GBT rule that entries should come from national clubs, which I know had aroused resentment among the manufacturers.

The rule seems to have been finally dropped in 1947, although it wasn't enforced for the periods 1928-33 and 1936-37. But in those years they didn't run the race to the Formula. ;)

#47 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 19:35

Before we enter the chapter of controversy there are two revealing AUTOMOBIL-REVUE clips to look at since they are illustrating quite well the situation at that time. In the first news clip they complain about the lack of information issued by the CSI and AIACR. Then in the following article they attempt to explain the point scoring system and promptly make mistakes, simply because they had insufficient information and started guessing.

We have seen from those AUTOMOBIL-REVUE clippings that information was not forthcoming from the CSI. The lack of information most probably led MOTOR SPORT to publish news which was not factual. They just fabricated a story saying, “It is worth pointing out that these results were obtained from five races, the GP of Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland. The French G.P. is not included, but it makes no difference to the results,” Then in later years other writers were misled, believed and copied that junk written in that MOTOR SPORT article and spread the yarn in their later publications; truly an unfortunate situation.

As a matter of fact, the CSI had ruled that the seven Grandes Epreuves formed the European Championship. Although the AIACR did not announce which races were applied to their classification, they announced the point score of eight famous drivers which was then published by many magazines in the various countries. The magazines and papers all published the same point score, which is such that it can match only with a 7-Race championship table.

To then change the points table by eliminating two events and consequently change the point system is simply impudent. The AIACR announced the classification on Monday, October 14th, and MOTOR SPORT changed it a few weeks later in their November issue. That is simply humbug. To the author’s defense comes possibly the following AUTOMOBIL-REVUE statement: “Much information reaches the press only as indiscretions and therefore often turns the story into an inaccurate account, which cannot be in the interest of the highest sporting authorities.” The thoughtless MOTOR SPORT journalist should have known this and his ludicrous remarks regarding the French race are a serious faux-pas. To state afterwards that the French club supposedly disagreed on the CSI decision and therefore their race is not included in the 1935 European Championship is simply absurd. The French club was outvoted when the CSI decided about the classification. So the statement about the French race in this article is absolute nonsense. Worse to come, many other serious people were misguided believing this rubbish.
So, who was misled or who copied from whom?
1935 --- MOTOR SPORT (1935, November issue, p26) – THE INITIATOR
1976 --- Anthony Pritchard (MASERATI: A History, p83)
1986 --- Chris Nixon (Racing The SILVER ARROWS, p62)
1992 --- Paul Sheldon (A Record of Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing, Vol.3 p236)
1999 --- Giuseppe Guzzardi & Enzo Rizzo (The Century of MOTOR RACING, p60)
Internet: Wikipedia and other sites.

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, October 18, No.84, pg.4
About the conference of the CSI we learn additionally that it was decided to again hold the European Championship in 1936 to exactly the same principle.
Additionally, one can repeat only the urgent wish, that the press be informed more reliably and more detailed. Much information reaches the press only as indiscretions and therefore often turns the story into an inaccurate account, which cannot be in the interest of the highest sporting authorities.

AUTOMOBIL-REVUE (Bern), 1935, October 22, No.85, pg.3
Classification of drivers for the European Championship. As we already reported in the next to last issue of the “A.-R.”, the A.I.A.C.R. in their conference in Paris declared Caracciola as European Champion. Fagioli followed in second place, then Brauchitsch, Dreyfus, Nuvolari, Stuck, Chiron and Varzi.
The classification of the individual drivers was done by their performance in the Grands Prix of Monaco, France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Spain since the first was allotted one point, the second two, the third three, the fourth four, the fifth five, etc. Seven points received he who did not finish the race, while eight points were issued to drivers for non-participation. [The bold comment is wrong!]

MOTOR SPORT (London) 1935, November issue, p26
The A.I.A.C.R. has awarded the 1935 European Champonship to Rudolf Caracciola. Here are the final placings:
1. Caracciola (Mercedes-Benz) 16 pts.
2. Fagioli (Mercedes-Benz) 22 pts.
3. von Brauchitsch (Mercedes-Benz) 31 pts.
4. Dreyfus (Alfa Romeo) 35 pts.
5. Nuvolari (Alfa Romeo) and Stuck (Auto Union) 37 pts.
6. (Sic) Chiron (Alfa Romeo) and Varzi (Auto Union) 40 pts.
It is worth pointing out that these results were obtained from five races, the GP of Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland. The French G.P. is not included, but it makes no difference to the results [sic], for the Mercs finished one-two-three. The reason for this omission is that the idea was originally suggested by the German club, and was then submitted to all the national clubs who run Grand Prix. The A.C.F. did not approve of the idea, and so the championship was decided on the races of those who did.
The championship is to be held again next year, on the same lines.

MOTOR SPORT (London) 1935, November issue, p26
In a separate note Motor Sport continued:-“….The Germans and Italians have it all their own way at the meetings of the A.I.A.C.R. and as they provide the big grand prix races, this is only as it should be. The present move “(to retain the 750 kg Formula until 1937)” was suggested by the Italians and endorsed by the Germans.”
Richard Armstrong noted: "Previous authors (ie Nixon and Pritchard) seem to have assumed that the report in Motor Sport was the first announcement of the Championship but an ambiguous statement by Nixon in his 1987 article has led later researchers to look in vain for evidence in winter 1934-5 - this statement muddied the waters further, rather than clearing them."
I have a personal comment to the following quote by Motor Sport: “The Germans and Italians have it all their own way at the meetings of the A.I.A.C.R. and as they provide the big grand prix races, this is only as it should be. The present move “(to retain the 750 kg Formula until 1937)” was suggested by the Italians and endorsed by the Germans.”
My comment: this is very nicely written but is also total humbug. Do not believe it. The CSI reached their decisions by vote and there were nine members voting to reach a decision. So, Germany and Italy were together two votes and there were seven others. The majority wins, not two votes.


#48 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 19:54

An excellent analysis as usual, Hans. We should also name "the guilty man" - it was Harold Nockolds.

Agreed absolutely on the "humbug". Funnily enough, there's a very obvious propaganda piece in Il Littoriale in 1940 which puts the Fascist point of view and complains about the unfairness of "lobbying in corridors" and how those nasty French and British had continually frustrated the Germans and Italians, who should really have been running the whole thing ...

#49 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:50

...the Germans and Italians, who should really have been running the whole thing ...

Really? :rolleyes:
...remember what happened in 1939 when the Germans did run it? ):

#50 Vitesse2

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:38

Really? :rolleyes:
...remember what happened in 1939 when the Germans did run it? ):

That was Corrado Filippini's opinion. Although no doubt with the full approval of Messrs Furmanik and Bonacossa. He also blamed those other influential countries on the CSI Poland and Luxembourg: see the pattern? ;) Like I said, pure propaganda. :)