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#1 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 19:14

Can anyone help?

I believe that around 1980 Ralph Broad (Broadspeed) progressed some way on an F1 car. I believe that its most unusual feature was a Cosworth DFV fitted transversely and driving by chains to the gearbox. I could never work out the thinking behind this, since the DFV was designed to be a stressed member, but Ralph must have had his reasons.

It is my understanding that Ralph was severely affected by the death of his daughter in a road accident and the project was shelved

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#2 bradbury west

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 20:31

Andy Rouse may be able to throw light onto it perhaps, if he was still involved then. Perhaps Mr Roebuck may recall something..

Roger Lund

#3 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 21:23

My primary source is Andy Rouse!

#4 ghinzani

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:08

Apparently it was designed with a beam axle, a la the Beagle's. I found that out by re-reading an old Motorsport article btw and thought it worthy of mention. Would love to see any drawings that exist...

#5 Doug Nye

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:10

Transverse DFV, chain drive...ever heard rhe expression 'wind up'?

DCN

#6 Pullman99

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:25

Transverse DFV, chain drive...ever heard rhe expression 'wind up'?DCN


Not sure if it was a "wind up" or not, but didn't Motoring News publish a lead story in (about) 1972 that British Leyland was going to enter Formula 1? I think - possibly - that someone may have got Group 1 and Formula 1 a bit muxed ip. :)

Edited by Pullman99, 24 March 2012 - 09:25.


#7 E1pix

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:43

My primary source is Andy Rouse!

Not to derail, but... the nature photographer???

#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:48

Not to derail, but... the nature photographer???

No - former British Touring Car champion:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Andy_Rouse

#9 arttidesco

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:30

Has this project got anything to do with the rapidlly approaching date of April 1st ? :stoned:

#10 RogerFrench

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:28

Has this project got anything to do with the rapidlly approaching date of April 1st ? :stoned:


Why else would you resuscitate a 7-year-old topic?

Edited by RogerFrench, 24 March 2012 - 12:29.


#11 Sharman

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 14:56

Why else would you resuscitate a 7-year-old topic?


Very like the report of the Nassau GP which had 16 cylinder Porsches in it.

#12 AAGR

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:39

Not sure if it was a "wind up" or not, but didn't Motoring News publish a lead story in (about) 1972 that British Leyland was going to enter Formula 1? I think - possibly - that someone may have got Group 1 and Formula 1 a bit muxed ip. :)



British Leyland + F1 + Ralph Broad in 1972 ? That sounds daft enough - for Broadspeed was tied up with Ford at the time. But a Cosworth DFV (financed by Ford money) in a British Leyland project ? I don't think so, do you ?



#13 arttidesco

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:48

British Leyland + F1 + Ralph Broad in 1972 ? That sounds daft enough - for Broadspeed was tied up with Ford at the time. But a Cosworth DFV (financed by Ford money) in a British Leyland project ? I don't think so, do you ?


British Leyland Money + F1 + Cosworth DFV + ? = See Link :smoking:

Edited by arttidesco, 24 March 2012 - 15:48.


#14 Doug Nye

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:46

Raymond Mays's much-promoted postwar chain-drive ERA sprint car also suffered from wind-up...

DCN

#15 Glengavel

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:49

British Leyland Money + F1 + Cosworth DFV + ? = See Link :smoking:


I think the sponsorship there was Leyland's truck division and had nothing to do with the motoring division. I do remember that Leyland were a bit picky about the FORD lettering on the DFV's cam covers, and Williams got a set of DFX covers with COSWORTH on instead.

Anyway, back to the subject - presumably in addition to the transverse DFV, the Broadspeed car would have had hydrolastic suspension and front wheel drive?


#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 18:53

Anyway, back to the subject - presumably in addition to the transverse DFV, the Broadspeed car would have had hydrolastic suspension and front wheel drive?

... and a quartic steering wheel?

#17 kayemod

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 19:30

British Leyland + F1 + Ralph Broad in 1972 ? That sounds daft enough - for Broadspeed was tied up with Ford at the time. But a Cosworth DFV (financed by Ford money) in a British Leyland project ? I don't think so, do you ?


Unipart, part of Brileymoco or whatever they were called at the time, were main sponsors of Mo Nunn's DFV-powered Ensign, what alternatives existed at the time?

#18 BRG

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 19:58

... and a quartic steering wheel?

All F1 cars seem to use them nowadays, so perhaps BMC/BLMC/BL/ARG (or whatever) were prescient?

#19 swintex

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 20:21

Anyway, back to the subject - presumably in addition to the transverse DFV, the Broadspeed car would have had hydrolastic suspension and front wheel drive?


... and a quartic steering wheel?

What was that pale mustard/foetal turd colour that Allegros where?

I'm sure that would look fantastic in HD.

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#20 kayemod

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 20:32

What was that pale mustard/foetal turd colour that Allegros where?


You'd have to be pretty ill to produce something as off-putting as that.

(I was talking about the concept of a chain-drive DFV of course, what else?)


#21 Pullman99

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 20:56

British Leyland + F1 + Ralph Broad in 1972 ? That sounds daft enough - for Broadspeed was tied up with Ford at the time. But a Cosworth DFV (financed by Ford money) in a British Leyland project ? I don't think so, do you ?


As I remember it, the original - and front page story to boot - got all excited at the prospect of a Britiush Leyland F1 car. No mention of Broadspeed, Cosworth, or anyone else for that matter. I recall that the following week's issue carried a retraction. Apparently, they had it "on good authority" that the unlamented behemoth was actually serious about this. It may be recalled that Lord Stokes (also probably unlamented) had only recently closed the Competition Department at Abingdon and whilst later on, Williams and Ensign were to benefit from sponsorship from Unipart and Leyland Trucks (then quite separate entities) the extent of BL's official motorsport activity was basically limited to Unipart stickers on John Bowtell's McLaren M10B in F5000 and the emerging Morris Marina rally programme for Brian Culcheth. Although, to be fair, better things were to follow with Dolomite Sprints, Jaguar XJCs F3 Marches and much more besides!

But no British Leyland F1 car!

Edited by Pullman99, 24 March 2012 - 21:27.


#22 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 21:04

What was that pale mustard/foetal turd colour that Allegros where?

I'm sure that would look fantastic in HD.

My father and I christened it "nappy yellow".

#23 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 21:12

I do remember that Leyland were a bit picky about the FORD lettering on the DFV's cam covers, and Williams got a set of DFX covers with COSWORTH on instead.

The COSWORTH cam covers were used well before the Leyland sponsorship came along. As I understand it, this was because Frank's Arabian sponsors were not at all keen on Ford after Henry Ford II's public support for Israel.

#24 Stephen W

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:23

My father and I christened it "nappy yellow".


:rotfl:

There was me thinking it was **** brown! :blush:

#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:43

My father and I christened it "nappy yellow".

Posted Image

:rotfl:

There was me thinking it was shit brown! :blush:

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It came in "vomit" as well ...

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#26 swintex

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 20:36

It came in "vomit" as well ...

Posted Image

I think that's the colour I was thinking of.

I don't recall having seen an "estate" before.

Interesting that you had to sacrifice the rear doors to gain the extra load capacity, but it seems that you got a nice pinstripe to make up for it.

#27 nicanary

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 21:11

[quote name='swintex' date='Mar 25 2012, 21:36' post='5628601']
I think that's the colour I was thinking of.

I don't recall having seen an "estate" before.

Interesting that you had to sacrifice the rear doors to gain the extra load capacity, but it seems that you got a nice pinstripe to make up for it.
[/quote

My dad had an estate in a bright yellow colour as his company car - I can still remember the look of grief on his face when he brought it home.We lived in a typical "Acacia Avenue" area of old biddies in A35s etc..

#28 ghinzani

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 00:40

It came in "vomit" as well ...

Posted Image


I expect I am alone in really loving the shape of these cars. Then again I love all things 70's. Maybe I should get one as a first classic purchase.


#29 Glengavel

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:16

I think that's the colour I was thinking of.

I don't recall having seen an "estate" before.

Interesting that you had to sacrifice the rear doors to gain the extra load capacity, but it seems that you got a nice pinstripe to make up for it.


I thought it looked like a mini-hearse when it was launched. Did it ever come in black?



#30 Garagiste

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 14:38

IIRC, the official name for vomit was "Autumn Gold".


#31 f1steveuk

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 14:46

What was that pale mustard/foetal turd colour that Allegros where?

I'm sure that would look fantastic in HD.



Harvest Gold, horrid colour, known inside the BL garage where I did my apprenticeship as "Baby S@#t brown".

I loved it when Leyland (that is Redline and Blue commercials) sponsored Williams, I got to go to all sorts of events!

#32 kayemod

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 15:16

Harvest Gold, horrid colour, known inside the BL garage where I did my apprenticeship as "Baby S@#t brown".


I suspect there's a bit of confusion here, maybe what some are thinking of is Limeflower, which I'd say was a pretty accurate depiction of baby poo, a yellowy ochre colour with a distinct greenish tinge. Don't any of you ask who once owned an Austin Maxi in that colour, as I might have to confess, though I have to say that the colour never bothered me at the time. Harvest Gold on the other hand was fairly inoffensive, more or less what it says on the tin. It's true it was maybe ever so slightly "the night after a bad curry", but I can't imagine it actually offending anyone, I've seen much worse on the roads today.

Edit. I've just gone back a couple of posts, and that Allegro Estate is the one I'm talking about, that baby poo colour is definitely Limeflower.

Edited by kayemod, 29 March 2012 - 15:20.


#33 Sharman

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 15:58

Harvest Gold was not too bad in reality, it was certainly not one of those showing above. I had a V12 E Type in it and it looked quite effective.

#34 packapoo

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:39

Harvest Gold was not too bad in reality, it was certainly not one of those showing above. I had a V12 E Type in it and it looked quite effective.


Yes....but... really?
V12 E Type as opposed to those others mentioned. 'Course it'd look effective.

#35 Glengavel

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:41

Harvest Gold was not too bad in reality, it was certainly not one of those showing above. I had a V12 E Type in it and it looked quite effective.


My dad had a dark green ADO71 Princess and it always looked better than his pal's version, which I think was Harvest Gold.

Currently there are some staggeringly awful shades of beige or brown out there - what is the appeal? :confused:

#36 f1steveuk

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:07

Going waaaaaay OT, but during my time with BL, I got to see many a prototype, one of which was an MG Marina. Wider wheels, octagonal instrument binacles, vinyl roof etc etc So to make it exciting, they painted it Harvest Gold, nasty! They did get more sensible, the prototype TR7 Estate (looked lovely) was done in Astral Blue metalic, looked so good, I'd have brought one, would have still rusted.....................