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At the fringe of motor racing history (J.W. Stocks)


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#1 ReWind

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 10:10

One J.W. Stocks drove one of three Napiers in the 1903 Gordon Bennett race but crashed out early on and has rarely again been heard of.

Prior to that in 1896 & 1897 he had been a pretty successful bike rider:
http://fr.wikipedia....lisme_sur_Piste
(go down to „Championnats du Monde de demi-fond (professionels)“)

From that career we learn his full name as Jack William Stocks. A contemporary source tells us that he was born in 1868.

John Humphries gives his name as John Stocks which fits with the full name given above as men named „John“ are obviously often called „Jack“.

Further research reveals that one Sergeant John William Stocks was killed in action during WWI on 14 Sep 1917:
http://www.britishme...john-stocks.htm

Was this the same man? Maybe KJJ with his access to obituaries from The Times can clarify this?

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#2 KJJ

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 12:10

ReWind

At the moment I’ve got a dreadful internet connection (AOL really is rubbish) and can’t give this query the attention it deserves. Yes, his full name was John William Stocks, in 1907 he was Managing Director in England for the De Dion-Bouton company. In 1921 he attended a 21st Anniversary dinner to celebrate the London-Edinburgh-London 1000 mile trial, so the sergeant killed in 1917 is certainly not your man. I’ll come back to this again. Did I mention that AOL is rubbish? :mad:

#3 ReWind

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 12:29

Thanks for your quick reply.

Take your time.

#4 Geoff E

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 12:33

The 1901 census of Great Britain has

John W STOCKS 29 Manager of Cycle Company (Employer), born Hull, Yorkshire

living with wife Annie M 30, born Hull, son John L 6 born Priest Hill, London and a servant.

They were living in Alcester Road, Kings Norton in a house called "Rottingdean".

His birth was registered in Hull in the 4th quarter of 1871.

The wife had been Annie Maud DYSON. They married in the first quarter of 1894.

#5 RAP

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 13:59

J W Stocks raced an Ariel motor-tricycle at Crystal Palace, and no doubt elsewhere, in 1899-1900.
Richard

#6 gerrit stevens

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 14:25

Originally posted by Geoff E
The 1901 census of Great Britain has

John W STOCKS 29 Manager of Cycle Company (Employer), born Hull, Yorkshire

living with wife Annie M 30, born Hull, son John L 6 born Priest Hill, London and a servant.

They were living in Alcester Road, Kings Norton in a house called "Rottingdean".

His birth was registered in Hull in the 4th quarter of 1871.


In my cycling sources I have as birthdate 2 October 1871 in Hull.
I don't have the date of his death. If he was killed in WW1 I think my sources wouyld have mentioned that. BTW lots of cyclist fell in action during WW1 a.o. 3 Tour de France winners..

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#7 KJJ

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 22:01

I've failed to find a Times death notice for Stocks, but then he was a PROFESSIONAL cycle champion so maybe not from that class which considered it needed to make their family announcements in the Thunderer. He was racing at Brooklands in the 1908 season and also competing at Cowes in a De Dion Bouton motor launch in the mid 1900s Given the Kings Norton connection I wonder if he was anything to do with J. W. Stocks Limited of Broad Street, Birmingham who were selling Renaults at the end of the 20s.

#8 Tim Murray

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:25

In his book My Motoring Reminiscences S F Edge wrote of Stocks:

. . . his experience on bicycles was of great assistance to him in motoring, for I have always regarded Stocks as one of the finest drivers of either racing or touring cars who ever lived. Had he devoted himself more to motor racing I am sure his name would now rank with that of Jenatzy, de Knyff and de Caters.


Stocks is mentioned many times in the book, but with no real clue as to his profession, other than that he lived in Birmingham. Included is this little anecdote:

My old colleague of the road, J. W. Stocks, was once convicted of driving a motor tricycle at an excessive speed, although he produced conclusive proof that he was twenty miles distant from the spot where he was supposed to have committed the offence. The magistrate remarked that even if he were not driving at excessive speed at the place in question, he was doubtless doing so somewhere else!



#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:01

An extract from Jarrott's "Ten Years of Motors and Motor Racing"

I remember we had a very interesting motor tandem race with Edge and myself as partners on one machine, against Stocks and Wridgway on the other. It was the first and only time I have ridden a tandem in competition, and Edge and I were very fortunate to beat such renowned cyclists as Stocks and Wridgway, particularly as they made very effective use of their pedals.


No exact date for that, but some time before Sep 13th 1899 and part of the Crystal Palace Brassard meeting. Tandem motorbikes! :eek: I had no idea such things existed!

Stocks was third in the 1903 GBT trials and joined Edge and Jarrott in Ireland well before the race in order to recce the course: Jarrott goes into some detail about this, using "we" throughout, so we can imply that Stocks was there, I suppose.

There's also an anecdote about a car-hating horse-and-trap driver taking his whip to Jarrott, Stocks and Edge who were in two vehicles: Jarrott on his own and Stocks on a quadricycle with Edge as passenger. Having been attacked, they both turned round and pursued the trap, forcing it to stop. It would appear that these three "motists" took the law into their own hands and gave this "gentleman" a lesson he wouldn't forget: and not according to the Marquess of Queensbury's rules either! :lol:

#10 David McKinney

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:16

Was that tandem race really for motorbikes - or pedal-driven machines?

#11 Tim Murray

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:36

Both forms of propulsion were used, apparently. According to Edge:

These [motor-driven tandems] were used largely for path-pacing purposes, and pedalling played a very important part. The engines were of comparatively low power and were controlled by the rear rider. The front man merely had to pedal like a demon and steer. Jarrott and I were matched against Stocks and Wridgway, and the distance was one mile. Stocks and Wridgway managed to get going better than we did, but on the second lap we caught them and won by forty yards . . .


He gives the date as July 1st 1899.

#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:47

Well, he does say "motor tandem" ... :) Earlier in the book Jarrott mentions his last ever bicycle race, so I think we can assume this was definitely a powered machine of some description: there's also a story about an electrically-powered tandem (built by a Frenchman called Pingault) which was demonstrated (only the once!) at Catford in 1897. There's even a picture of the beast.

In view of the very rudimentary standard of motor cycles at the time, the "motor tandem" might not have been much more than a power-assisted bike. Writing in 1906, Jarrott is still very sceptical about the prospects of motorbikes taking over from bicycles as a popular form of travel .... and bear in mind that "The Motor Cycle & Motor" had then recently dropped the first part of its name!

#13 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 16:24

Originally posted by David McKinney
Was that tandem race really for motorbikes - or pedal-driven machines?

http://cnum.cnam.fr/...gi?4KY28.57/376

http://cnum.cnam.fr/...gi?4KY28.52/081

#14 RAP

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 19:44

In the course of researching early racing for my forthcoming book "A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace" it seemed to me that around the turn-of-the-century the term "motor cycle" embraced both two and three wheel machines ie a motorised cycle, whether bicycle or tricycle - (at least in the British press). Racing machines prior to 1900 seem usually to have been tricycles, presumably as they were a more stable platform for motorising?
Richard

#15 Geoff E

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 20:56

From the Motorist's Year Book 1907*

"Stocks J.W. 10 Gt Marlborough St, London W. Car 24hp de Dion. Has driven nearly 150,000 miles. Hobby; Shooting. After ten years of successful racing on the cycle path turned his attention to motoring in 1897. His first cycle race was at Hull in 1888, and in 1896 and 1897 he held all records from one mile to one hour, and in the latter, his final year on the path, won the 100 km championship, at Glasgow. On his last appearance on the track, he covered 32 miles in the hour (then the world record). In 1899 covered 434 miles on an Ariel tricycle inside 24 hours. In 1902 journeyed from Land's End to John o' Groats on an 8hp de Dion in 2 days 14 hours, including all stoppages. In 1906 drove a de Dion car from London to Edinburgh, without stopping the engine, in 20 hours. Took up the management of the de Dion business in 1902. Drove a Napier car in the 1903 Gordon Bennett race. Also drove a Napier car in the Gordon Bennett eliminating trials in the Isle of Man (1904). Club: ACGBI"

*Reprinted in TON UP - A celebration of 100 years of the Midland Automobile Club.

#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 14:11

Stocks was one of five Napier drivers at the 1904 Gordon Bennett Trials - the others were SF Edge, John Hargreaves, Clifford Earp and Mark Mayhew. The team was based at the Douglas Bay Hotel (now demolished) at Onchan Head, Douglas. Edge drove his 1903 Gordon Bennett car, Mayhew a new 100hp model and the others all had modified 1903 machines: apart from Mayhew's, which was varnished and lined like a touring car, the cars were either plain "service grey" or emerald green..

Stocks' car carried number 1 in the trials, on the first day of which (a circuit race of sorts) he seems to have had an uneventful run to fourth place, finishing 20 minutes behind Earp's Napier. Girling's Wolseley and Edge's Napier were second and third. The local press thought the trials rather boring, comparing them unfavourably with ploughing matches and remarking that it was appropriate to call them Eliminating Trials as the club had taken "particular care to eliminate from them all the elements of racing"!

Day two was a straight hill-climb at Port-e-Vullan. Only seven cars were judged fit for this (the Weir-Darracqs had provided a lot of thrills and spills on day one and were absent). Mayhew's Napier was also unready, so the four remaining Napiers faced the three Wolseleys of Jarrott, Girling and Muir. The Napiers had the advantage over the Wolseleys, possibly thanks to having only a 3-speed gearbox, and Edge ran out an easy winner with a time of 38 seconds: all the rest were in the mid-40s or above.

The third day was devoted to sprints on the promenade at Douglas, the most notable occurence being a serious accident involving Earp: Stocks cannot have shown up well in these, since when the team was announced he and Hargreaves were named only as reserves to Edge, Jarrott and Girling.

One wonders whether Messrs de Dion Bouton weren't pleased that their manager was driving for another company? At any rate, he wasn't in the Napier team for the following year's trials. However, he did return to the Isle of Man for the 1908 TT, this time at the wheel of a De Dion Bouton. and again staying at the Douglas Bay Hotel.

This car was entered by his company De Dion Bouton (1907) Ltd and was the biggest in the race. Designed to comply with the "four inch formula" it was a massive machine, reminiscent of some of the earliest racers. It weighed in at no less than 3057 pounds and had a wheelbase of 10 feet 5 inches: the chassis reminded some observers of a motor bus and The Autocar remarked it had seen "weaker front axles on two ton vans"! Other competitors were worried that this monster would be difficult to pass on the twisty Manx roads and approached Stocks to ask if he would consider yielding to faster cars. Stocks apparently gave them short shrift, probably angered by their temerity in assuming they'd be able to catch him: the car had achieved 73mph in top! His justification for the size and solidity was that it would hold the road better and be more reliable. Stocks had allegedly used the car as a single-seater to break a number of records at Brooklands earlier in the year and had now fitted it with two seats, a larger fuel tank and smaller wheels to reduce the gearing for road and hill climb work. It developed 70hp at 2300rpm. I say "allegedly" because Boddy makes no mention of any record attempts, although Stocks did win the "4th 26hp race" at the May 1908 meeting and a "match race" at the Summer meeting, both in a 25.6hp de Dion. However, it appears that he was the only one to arrive for this match race, so it was presumably a solo run?

Stocks doesn't seem to have featured in the race and retired on the fourth lap of nine with what was reported as a sheared pin in the timing gear.

In 1933, Stocks was still very much alive, as he took part in a race for pre-War (WW1!) drivers on the Mountain circuit at Brooklands during the BARC Inter-Clubs Meeting. They were all in MG Magnas and the field comprised Stocks, JTC Moore-Brabazon, Sydney Cummings, RC Empson, CLE Geach, Tom Thornycroft and no lesser luminaries than Francis Samuelson (who was still racing after WW2, having started in 1908!) and LG Hornsted (he of the Big Black Benz). Captain Macklin (Noel's father) was a DNA. It was only a three-lapper and Stocks apparently had a dud car, since he retired, having achieved only a 47mph lap: Cummings won a close race from Empson and Samuelson at an average of 53.17mph.

Just as a postscript, Boddy also records one or more drivers called Stocks at Brooklands in the last couple of seasons, firstly with an "old Lea-Francis", which was burnt out in a fire in the paddock garages, and then with a "1087cc MG". JW himself? Or maybe a son?

Sources: "TT Pioneers" by Robert Kelly and "Brooklands" by Bill Boddy.

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 16:12

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Captain Macklin (Noel's father)

Surely Captain Macklin was Lance's father?

#18 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 16:51

Originally posted by David McKinney

Surely Captain Macklin was Lance's father?

:blush: Brain fade ....

I knew I should have checked that. As soon as I did, I realised I'd made a mistake there.

#19 humphries

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 17:13

Off the top of my head I think it was Arthur Clifford-Earp, who had a brother Walter, and both raced in these early years. Initially I think the UK press thought that Clifford was a first name. Perhaps someone can confirm one way or the other?

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#20 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 18:30

According to S F Edge, Earp (or Clifford-Earp?) was "a very good tester of cars at the Napier works . . . through whose hands most of the Napier cars had to pass. " Hence Edge selected him as the third member of the Napier team to contest the 1904 Gordon Bennett trials. Presumably therefore Edge knew him reasonably well, but refers to him always as if Clifford was his first name.

#21 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 23:05

Jarrott too just calls him Clifford Earp sans hyphen.

#22 Geoff E

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:06

I suspect this was the EARP family on the 1881 census

Arthur C. EARP Head M Male 26 Lambeth, Surrey, England Sculptor
Emilie C. EARP Wife M Female 23 Bath, Somerset, England
Winifred E.C. EARP Daur U Female 3 Lambeth, Surrey, England
Walter T.C. EARP Son U Male 2 Lambeth, Surrey, England
Evelyn L.C. EARP Daur U Female 7 m Camberwell, Surrey, England
Jemima KING Serv U Female 17 Arlsey, Bedford, England Domestic Servant

Dwelling Avondale Road 1 Cambridge Villas
Census Place Camberwell, Surrey, England

Walter TC EARP age 22 appears on the 1901 census as a "Motor Expert Farman(?)"

In 1891 he was at school at Ardingley (Sussex) and named as Walter Thomas Clifford EARP

The 1891 census also shows that his father had died and his mother remarried to Thomas WRIGGLESWORTH. One of the household (a stepson of TW) is Arthur Clifford EARP age 7.

His mother was allegedly widowed again by 1901 (and had reverted to "EARP"). Arthur (17) was an "Engineer Fitter".

However, Thomas WRIGGLESWORTH had seemingly married again and had a couple more kids.

#23 humphries

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 14:03

Digging further...

In the 1907 Brooklands programmes it is A. Clifford-Earp, or A. Clifford Earp, at the wheel of Capt. G.Ll.Hinds-Howell's Iris. In the 1904 British Eliminating Trials for the Gordon-Benett race it is W. Clifford Earp to drive Napier IV (The Motor News, 30 April 1904). The Times (12 May 1904) reports that Clifford Earp crashed and his younger brother Walter was the riding mechanic and both were lucky not to be killed. However the census material supplied by Geoff shows that Arthur was the younger of the two. So who was driving is unclear, Walter aged approx 25, or Arthur aged approx 20?

L'Automobile, October 1905 lists every driver at the Chateau-Thierry hillclimb by just a surname, the Napier driver is listed as Clifford Earp. At Ormond Beach January 1906 in Florida it is Walter Clifford Earp setting records. In the Commercial Vehicle Trials of 9 Sept 1907 one of the entries was made by W.T. Clifford-Earp (Limited) and at Brooklands on 20 February, 1908 it was W.T. Clifford-Earp setting records with Thames and Napier cars.

What is also striking from Geoff's census research is that every Earp had the initial C before the name , including the females. The online census from my limited probing does not like double-barrelled names which I think is probably either a limitation with the software or the policy of the online compilers. First and last names seem to be the standard format although I believe there is an "intelligent person search" (!!) that can be used which I have not touched. When I have entered the surnames Clifford-Earp, Moore-Brabazon, Huntley-Walker, Grahame-White, or even Baden-Powell and Campbell-Bannerman there is no response.

What is pretty certain is that many motor-racing historians have thought that there was just one Clifford Earp. Bill Boddy has only Earp, Clifford in an index which sadly is littered with inconsistencies, when it should be A. Clifford-Earp (p22) and W.T. Clifford-Earp (p25).

John

#24 Geoff E

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 15:07

Originally posted by humphries
The online census from my limited probing does not like double-barrelled names which I think is probably either a limitation with the software or the policy of the online compilers.


The 1901 census sheet (which was itself a transcription of the original household census form) has Walter T C Earp; I would have thought that this would have been a true copy of what was on the form.

Similarly, there is John T C M Brabazon (at school in Harrow) in 1901.

On the other hand, his brother (in the army) appears unhyphenated as William Lockhart Chambre Moore Brabazon.

His family appeared as Moore-Brabazon in 1881.

#25 humphries

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 19:15

Geoff, if you have seen the official census form with Walter T.C.Earp then that is what it says, but possibly the transcriber of 1901 reduced some names from the original household form to initials?

Although I am not familiar with the household census forms of 1891 and 1901 I would have thought that people would have been required to enter their full names.

John T.C. Moore-Brabazon was very unlikely to have been written down by his family as John T.C.M.Brabazon on the1901 form but more likely as Moore-Brabazon, John Theodore Cuthbert.

My suspicion was that the census information for 1891 and 1901 was put online by personnel entrusted with this tiresome task and who given a format that had limitations and conformity to make it manageable, but has resulted in abbreviations. Someone will definitely know.

Nearly one hundred years ago when the Brooklands programme compiler transcribed the information provided on the entry forms (by the entrant) they were happy to accept just initials and the surname. Indeed many Brooklands competitors would have considered it a little too familiar to be asked to provide a first name. First names were for use in family circles and with friends and not to be bandied about in public. In Brooklands programmes it was always J.T.C. Moore-Brabazon.

If, however, the entrant provided a first name then they would use it - hence from 1907 we have drivers Warwick J. Wright and F.Guy Lewin but these are examples of the few exceptions and not the rule.

As far as I am concerned I am going to be familiar and it is Walter Clifford-Earp, Arthur Clifford-Earp and John Moore-Brabazon in my records!

As an aside, John drove at Brooklands in a Chocolate Coat with Blue Sleeves and Cap whereas Arthur wore a little silky number described as being French Grey with Primrose facings and a matching French Grey Cap.

John

#26 Geoff E

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 20:01

humphies

I seem unable to send you a PM on census procedures (which are not wholly appropriate for this forum) so must reply here:

Although I am not familiar with the household census forms of 1891 and 1901 I would have thought that people would have been required to enter their full names.

John T.C. Moore-Brabazon was very unlikely to have been written down by his family as John T.C.M.Brabazon on the1901 form but more likely as Moore-Brabazon, John Theodore Cuthbert.

My suspicion was that the census information for 1891 and 1901 was put online by personnel entrusted with this tiresome task and who given a format that had limitations and conformity to make it manageable, but has resulted in abbreviations. Someone will definitely know.


The 1891 Census for England was taken on the night of 5 April 1891. The following information was requested: Name of street, avenue road, etc.; house number or name; whether or not the house was inhabited; number of rooms occupied if less than five; name of each person that had spent the night in that household; relationship of person enumerated to the head of the family; each person's marital status; age at last birthday (sex is indicated by which column the age is recorded in); each person's occupation; whether they are employer or employee or neither; person's place of birth; whether deaf, dumb, blind, or lunatic.

So ... the forms were filled in by the (head of) household and collected by the enumerator. The contents of each form were copied, by the enumerator, into the "census book" at some time shortly after the taking of the census. It is these images, contained in the census book, which appear online i.e. they were written in 1901 - not by penniless students, not by Sri Lankans nor by residents of Her Majesty's Prisons a century later.

As I said, JTCMB was at Harrow School at the time and, presumably, his information was entered by a schoolmaster (NOT by a family member). The 1901 transcription is as I gave earlier viz. John T C M Brabazon.

As a further aside, I transcribed about 10,000 names from the General Record Office Indexes for an online project. I encountered only ONE hyphenated surname but many hundreds of names of which the middle name appeared to be a "family" name. I believe hyphenation to be an affectation which developed as time passed.

#27 Tim Murray

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 20:42

A quick google has turned up this site:

http://www.ronnieear.../gp0.html#head4

This would seem to indicate that Arthur Clifford Earp (the elder) was the first of the family to bear the name Clifford. He may then of course have chosen to incorporate it into the family name.

#28 Geoff E

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 23:14

The EARPs had the following children

1877 Winifred Edith C
1879 Walter Thomas C
1880 Evelyn Lilias C
1882 Emily Jessie C
1884 Arthur Clifford
1885 Hubert Clifford

I think we can safely assume that the Cs are short for Clifford however, on the 1901 census, their mother is simply named Emily EARP but the children have middle initials. Of course, the general rule is that you can be known by whatever name you wish - there is no need for changes by deed poll - as long as your name changes are not made in an attempt to commit fraud.

#29 humphries

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 20:37

Geoff, thanks for the information and the explanation.

As far as our restricted motor-racing world is concerned I think that drivers should be known by the surname they themselves preferred. The Clifford-Earps presumably filled in their entry forms as Clifford-Earp. Archie used Scott-Brown and Stuart used the surname Lewis-Evans. Why their families decided to adopt hyphenated double-barrelled names is of no particular concern nor how they dealt with the resultant bureaucratic amendments.

As Geoff says the use of the hyphenated family name has developed over the years but at Brooklands in its first year, 1907, the affectation was well established.

From the entry lists we not only had Clifford-Earp and Moore-Brabazon but P.Kerr-Smiley, A.Huntley-Walker, A.Wyness-Stuart, F.Wilson-White, C.Grahame-White and C.D.Carleton-Smith. However some folk used double-barrelled surnames without a hyphen C.Harman Wigan, G.Ll.Hindes Howell, Col. Wentworth Forbes, Col. J.Roper Wright and A.Lee Guinness. Huntley-Walker and Clifford-Earp also appeared occasionally without the hyphen!!!

All this may seem pedantic but when trying to establish identities and add more personal details some understanding is necessary. Things are not made easy when a second forename is used in full but the first forename initial is retained as with F. Guy Lewin. In the U.K. this is not common but it is more so in the States. H. Mackay Fraser's name was confused by me especially when journalists inserted a hyphen. If at some time he had been referred to as H.M.Fraser I would have realised Mackay was a forename.

Another interesting aspect of the names in the 1907 Brooklands entry lists is that the entrants sometimes employed "professional" drivers who appear in the programmes simply as Nazzaro, Gabriel, Porporato and Duray, almost like stage names.

Finally back to Stocks! The Lea Francis and M.G. driver of 1938/1939 was a J.C.Stocks and he may have been related to J.W.Stocks as V2 pondered. In 1955 a J.C.Stocks raced a Tojeiro-MG and I wonder if this was the same Stocks.

John

#30 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 13:09

Came across another reference to JW Stocks - in 1937 he made his third successful Land's End to John O'Groats trip in a Ford V8, single-handed, in 26 hours 10 minutes, and stopping only for fuel. Not a bad run by anybody, let alone a man of 65, in pre-motorway days: the car averaged 21.7mpg and used about a quart of oil.

He had previously made the same trip in 1902 in a De Dion (48 hours driving time) and 1934, also in a Ford V8. The 1934 run was 5 minutes quicker than 1937! His first attempt had been in 1899 on an Ariel motor tricycle, when he had to give up near Kendal due to a broken exhaust valve.

Source: Motor Sport, Nov 1937, p467

#31 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 13:49

Just a mild digression: it is possible to have a double-barrelled surname without a hyphen. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's surname was Conan Doyle, not Doyle. His son also had Conan Doyle as a surname. And so on. It just depends on what is written in the appropriate box when filling in the birth entry form.

Moore Brabazon could be a bona fide surname without the hyphen, and so could Clifford Earp - but a hyphen makes it more explicit, removes ambiguity.

A passing thought, perfectly OT.

Back to my beer and "A Touch of Frost".



#32 Terry Walker

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 14:21

A further thought, on an advertisement break (it's a very old "Frost" - he's in a P reg Rover): if it's on the Birth Certificate it's more or less final. My grandmother, the youngest of a vast mid-to-late Victorian tribe, had older brothers who were identical twins, and who had different surnames! One was Chappell, the other Chapell. They both spelled it that way all their lives, and their descendants went the same way.

So the lesson is (or was; I suspect it would be harder now), if your name is embarassing and you don't want your son to wear it, give him a different surname when he's born. Look at Nicholas Monsarrat. His parents were Montserrat, but the clerk who filled out the forms got it wrong, and young Nick was Monsarrat ever after.

A colon and a semi-colon in the same post. That beer did me good.

#33 wenoopy

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 04:08

So the lesson is (or was; I suspect it would be harder now), if your name is embarassing and you don't want your son to wear it, give him a different surname when he's born. Look at Nicholas Monsarrat. His parents were Montserrat, but the clerk who filled out the forms got it wrong, and young Nick was Monsarrat ever after.


Your reference to Nicholas Monsarrat/Montserrat stirred up a long-dormant brain cell or two. So I looked up an old 50c paperback Monsarrat autobiography(part 1), where fortunately the answer was on the second page!

I quote in part :"Mother had always favoured a fancier spelling of our surname... the Marquis de Montserrat, .... was 'definitely related', and that was the way she was going to spell it, 'whatever your father says'. " Hence its appearance on his Birth Certificate.
This was to haunt and bedevil him all his life, apparently.

As for hyphenated names, the current penchant for children to have both parents' surnames as a hyphenated surname is more worrying. What happens with the next generation? There was an English cricketer around 1930s surnamed Hammond-Chambers-Borgnis. He scored 100 in his (fortunately) only first-class game.




#34 taylov

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 16:13

From the Motorist's Year Book 1907*

"Stocks J.W. 10 Gt Marlborough St, London W. Car 24hp de Dion. Has driven nearly 150,000 miles. Hobby; Shooting. After ten years of successful racing on the cycle path turned his attention to motoring in 1897. His first cycle race was at Hull in 1888, and in 1896 and 1897 he held all records from one mile to one hour, and in the latter, his final year on the path, won the 100 km championship, at Glasgow. On his last appearance on the track, he covered 32 miles in the hour (then the world record). In 1899 covered 434 miles on an Ariel tricycle inside 24 hours. In 1902 journeyed from Land's End to John o' Groats on an 8hp de Dion in 2 days 14 hours, including all stoppages. In 1906 drove a de Dion car from London to Edinburgh, without stopping the engine, in 20 hours. Took up the management of the de Dion business in 1902. Drove a Napier car in the 1903 Gordon Bennett race. Also drove a Napier car in the Gordon Bennett eliminating trials in the Isle of Man (1904). Club: ACGBI"

*Reprinted in TON UP - A celebration of 100 years of the Midland Automobile Club.


Found this postcard of J.W.Stocks at a recent local postcard and stamp fair. It is from a set of drivers and cars issued by Hely's of Dublin for the 1903 race.

Posted Image

Tony

Edited by taylov, 09 April 2010 - 09:31.


#35 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 04:52

Wonderful to be able to see a good photo of such an obscure driver of that period. Hercule Poirot would have envied that mousache.



#36 Pullman99

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 08:07

Wonderful to be able to see a good photo of such an obscure driver of that period. Hercule Poirot would have envied that mousache.


J W Stocks also had a successful garage business in Birmingham (Broad Street, I think) and this eventually became part of The Patrick Motors Group. At the time of the appeal to purchase (from The Harrah Collection) Stocks's 1903 Gordon Bennett Napier for The National Motor Museum, I believe that The Patrick Collection was interested in supporting the appeal provided that the Napier spent at leasr some time on display in Birmingham. This did not, however, take place and the Napier was purchased outright for the National Motor Museum with support from The National Heritage Memorial Fund as well as the public appeal. It has been displayed in the motorsport section at Beaulieu ever since.

#37 Red Socks

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 15:39

[quote name='Pullman99' date='Apr 6 2010, 08:07' post='4276166']
J W Stocks also had a successful garage business in Birmingham (Broad Street, I think) and this eventually became part of The Patrick Motors Group. At the time of the appeal to purchase (from The Harrah Collection) Stocks's 1903 Gordon Bennett Napier for The National Motor Museum, I believe that The Patrick Collection was interested in supporting the appeal provided that the Napier spent at leasr some time on display in Birmingham. This did not, however, take place and the Napier was purchased outright for the National Motor Museum with support from The National Heritage Memorial Fund as well as the public appeal. It has been displayed in the motorsport section at Beaulieu ever since.
[/quote)

As a boy, albeit a long time ago, Mrs Stocks lived in the village where I was bought up, she was by then an old lady, indeed a very grand dame but she had been involved in flying.I am minded to recall she was the first woman pilot but also Stocks widow.

#38 Vitesse2

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 17:07

As a boy, albeit a long time ago, Mrs Stocks lived in the village where I was bought up, she was by then an old lady, indeed a very grand dame but she had been involved in flying.I am minded to recall she was the first woman pilot but also Stocks widow.

Not the widow of JW Stocks, but the daughter-in-law of a JW Stocks. Given the dates, I do wonder if it's the same one though.

http://www.flightglo...l?search=Stocks


#39 Red Socks

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 06:43

Not the widow of JW Stocks, but the daughter-in-law of a JW Stocks. Given the dates, I do wonder if it's the same one though.

http://www.flightglo...l?search=Stocks


She was called Cherry I recall and I knew her-very vaguely as she was the great aunt of a contemporary of mine in the 1950's.

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#40 Geoff E

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:41

She was called Cherry I recall and I knew her-very vaguely as she was the great aunt of a contemporary of mine in the 1950's.


Marriage
2nd Q 1909
ERNST Cheridah Annie St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 869
STOCKS David DeBeauvois St.Geo.H. Sq 1a 869




#41 Geoff E

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:57

She was called Cherry I recall and I knew her-very vaguely as she was the great aunt of a contemporary of mine in the 1950's.


Marriage
2nd Q 1909 (St.Geo.H. Sq 1a 869)
ERNST Cheridah Annie
STOCKS David DeBeauvois

She was born in 1887. Her family was from Somerset, her father was a Magistrate and Landowner (1891 census)

The family home was apparently demolished in the 1950s http://en.wikipedia....combe,_Somerset

Pictures of Mrs Stocks (and cars) here http://www.mediastor...oir-stocks.html

Edited by Geoff E, 07 April 2010 - 09:00.


#42 Red Socks

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 19:30

Marriage
2nd Q 1909 (St.Geo.H. Sq 1a 869)
ERNST Cheridah Annie
STOCKS David DeBeauvois

She was born in 1887. Her family was from Somerset, her father was a Magistrate and Landowner (1891 census)

The family home was apparently demolished in the 1950s http://en.wikipedia....combe,_Somerset

Pictures of Mrs Stocks (and cars) here http://www.mediastor...oir-stocks.html

All correct; I knew her at Westcombe House-the demolition date is a little early more like 1963 I think.She was gloriously mad -kept sheep in the house as pets and such like.
The last remaining scion of the family was destitute at last report.

Edited by Red Socks, 07 April 2010 - 19:31.


#43 taylov

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:53

Posted Image

Here's Mr J.W.Stocks in the 1903 Napier from a set of postcards published by Rotary. The photo was taken in June before leaving for the 1903 Irish GB race. The location is New Burlington Street in London and unseen is the Showroom of S.F.Edge Ltd at number 14.

Tony