28 replies to this topic

[philsmith]

I am making a 1/32 slot car model of the Maserati Eldorado and have plenty of colour pictures of the restored car and have made the decals to suit as below.



(This is just a rough mockup)

I would really like to be able to model the original version as run at the Race of Two Worlds, here is a picture,



My question is, does anyone know what the small flag is below the 'Stirling Moss' name and also anywhere where I can find some colour pictures of the original car, not the restored version?

Thanks for any onfo,

[Barry Boor]

Ha! Another scratch builder! Welcome Phil.

I took some pictures of this car at Goodwood a couple of years ago. I'll look to see if I have one showing that side.

[philsmith]

Thanks but the car at Goodwood would be the restored car, I have lots of pictures of that, what I need is some colour pictures of the car in 1958 at Monza.

[Wolf]

I'm a bit puzzled by what seems to be a flag below Stirling's name- one would expect either Union Jack or St. George's cross, but this seems as St. Andrew's cross in unusual colours (and I have no idea what would it do on Stirling's car even in usual colours back then)... Any ideas what it is?

[jcbc3]

multiple liveries??

http://8w.forix.com/rotw/eldorado.jpg

That one doesn't feature the ensign below his name.

[jcbc3]

And a picture from the Panini collection.

http://www.velocetod...mber 05/P12.jpg

I was in Modena/Maranello this October and din't go. Even bought cheese in the area. Stoooopid me!

[GIGLEUX]

It seems that during practice the car had not the green and red stripes of the italian colours on the bonnet.

http://www.gafferspo.../autos/3427.php

[Rob Miller]

When the Eldorado was first shown it had a 250F type tail, cockpit and windscreen, and wire wheels.

The airscoop seems to be a very late before the race addition.

[Doug Nye]

Might I suggest that the photo showing what is apparently the strange 'saltire' flag or emblem beneath Stirl's name is misleading you.

It's simply either a picture shot on orthochromatic film which would not have been sensitive to some of the colours in the Union flag or it's a black-and-white rendition of a colour original which has not read the colours in the Union flag correctly. I think that emblem is just the normal Union Jack. British, don'tcherknow...

DCN

[Barry Boor]

BRILLIANT!!!

[Wolf]

Doug, now that You mention it- the 'saltire' could very well be red, while the background seems to be not too far off the hat on the Eldorado guy (which is apparently blue). Now we have to find a plausible explanation for disappearance of St. George's cross (from the Union Jack). Seriously, it seems it could be some sort of weird photo-effect.

BTW, am I imagining it or does Jcbc3's first photo show a Union Jack flying on a pole to the left of Stirling's name? It seems to me that all the design changes (that and both Italaian flags being replaced by one stylized along the scoop) seem to be connected to a different bonnet with longer intake scoop...

[D-Type]

I wonder.

Did Stirling do any 'shakedown' tests before practice for the race?

Was the car exhibited anywhere or given a photocall before the race?

Wasn't the car also entered for Indy subsequent to the Monza race? In which case some of the static photos might relate to then or to the time between the two races.

Pity the poor historian! or conscientious model maker for that matter!

[helioseism]

I searched my library and found photos of the '58 Eldorado in ten publications, shown below. Unfortunately, the only color picture I found, on page 97 of "Stirling Moss - Racing With the Maestro" by Karl Ludvigsen has bystanders standing right smack in front of the marking you are interested in! The book credits Jesse Alexander for the photo, maybe he has additional images in his files.

Another possibility is that the flag is associated with Eldorado, which was an Italian ice cream manufacturer of the time.

Another source might be the Monza histories, none of which I have . I've attached a set of cover thumbs of the histories I know of.

[WINO]

From the various photos I have the El Dorado car came in four different liveries, all for the Monza 500 in 1958. One year later, at Indianapolis, the car had been drastically lightened and it did not look the same at all.

For Monza the liveries were:

1. Initial testing: Pirellis, Borranis, no fin, cockpit offset to the right, two vertical stripes in the colors of the Italian flag.

2. First practice for the 500: Halibrands, Firestones, fin, crossed flags between the cowboy image and the hood bulge, which had a narrow vertical slit upfront, no decal under SM's name, 3500GT rear view mirror.

3. Next practice session: crossed flags are gone, the slit has been opened up to a regular air intake [like a 250F, only offset to the left in this case], 3500GT mirror replaced by a racing version.

4. Raceday: two stripes on the sides of the air intake, Union Jack under SM's name, El Dorado logo on the windshield support area.

WINO

[raceannouncer2003]

If you go to:

http://www.britishpathe.com/

and search for "Monza", you will come up with (amongst other things), "Moss's Narrow Escape". There are stills and video, most of it on the Maserati. In a closeup, there is no sign of a flag under his name (that film taken in practice?)

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

[raceannouncer2003]

I had another look. As I said, no sign of a flag under his name in the video closeup, but you can see a flag under his name in the still picture of the car after it had crashed, although again hard to make out details.

Vince H.

[Arjan de Roos]

I have a vague scan of a color photo. This photo shows the cars being pushed to the grid. Shot from the grandstand, the photo shows the right hand side of the car....

[philsmith]

Wow! thanks for all the help on this
I think the picture of the car after the crash says it all, the flag is a Union Jack and you would assume the livery to be the same on the otherside of the car.
It is interesting in the film that when they wheel the car out to the grid it has no stripes on the air scoop, yet it has in the race, I guess this would be footage from practice that has been spliced in.

also the stripes seem to fade to white towards the back, this you can see in my original picture and the one from the film.

[Vitesse2]

The in-car footage will definitely be from practice. Bear in mind this would be shot on film with a fairly heavy camera, which someone had to physically start and stop. See for example Graham Hill's encounter with the one that fell off de Beaufort's Porsche in practice at the Nürburgring in 1961 ...

I have feeling that there was a regulation which actually prohibited cameras during races, which wasn't rescinded until the early 80s?

[masterpieceslab]

Hello everybody!

Do you have pictures "copyrights free" to publish about Maserati Eldorado?

We are working about a dedicated website of the car:

http://www.automotiv...ado-sn4203.html

info@automotivemasterpieces.com

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Sandro

[Cappo]

In the 'barn' in Italy



At the goodwood revival

[masterpieceslab]

Thanks Cappo.
Can we publish the pictures in the dedicated website on AUTOMOTIVEMASTERPIECES?
If yes, would you like your name as copyright? Or nothing.
Sandro
sandro.binelli@automotivemasterpieces.com

[Cappo]

Haven't figured how to reply 'with quote' but no problem putting up the pictures on the website!

[B Squared]

Haven't figured how to reply 'with quote' but no problem putting up the pictures on the website!

It's working for me now, but wasn't earlier in the day. Click on the light gray "Quote" field at the lower right of the post you want to quote, and theoretically, it will be generated and displayed in the "Reply to this topic" field. You can then respond with the full quote, or edit as desired.

[Cappo]

It's working for me now, but wasn't earlier in the day. Click on the light gray "Quote" field at the lower right of the post you want to quote, and theoretically, it will be generated and displayed in the "Reply to this topic" field. You can then respond with the full quote, or edit as desired.

I think I've got it right, big fingers, old fart and an iPad!

Edited by Cappo, 28 November 2014 - 19:39.

[RS2000]

Theoretically, maybe. In practice, nothing.

[David Beard]

Detail snapped at Goodwood 

 

[Henri Greuter]

Hello everybody!

Do you have pictures "copyrights free" to publish about Maserati Eldorado?

We are working about a dedicated website of the car:

http://www.automotiv...ado-sn4203.html

info@automotivemasterpieces.com

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Sandro

 

 

 

Sandro,

 

I had a look at your website page of the car and I noticed you listed where/when  the car was entered for a race or festival.

 

I can confirm that the car has also been at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 1998. I do have photographic approval of it that I have seen the car over there that year. But the picture I made is just like the weather of that year: Bad.......

But it was there in 1998: 100% sure.

 

 

Regards,

 

Henri

[masterpieceslab]

Thanks all for the cooperation.
We'll update the website.
My best.
Sandro