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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#501 RTH

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 07:18

I know I have said this before but Tony's work is so astonishing it does not look possible that it has been done by human hand, people not in the know I have shown them to really believe they are some sort of colour X-Ray photographic process !
Tony, it truly is an awesome talent, I know you do other things today but I hope you are still keeping your hand in with some new drawings.
Like Andrew Kitson's amazing motor sport paintings for those of us without artistic talent (which is in all honesty at anything like this level 99.9 % of the rest of us ) it is an ability which is incomprehensible in its brilliance.

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#502 jayban

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 15:25

I have been following this thread for some time now and thought I might like to 'show my hand'.

Tony's work has always been of great inspiration to me (I was still training as a Technical Illustrator when his line illustrations appeared in Motoring News)
Myself and fellow trainees looked on in awe (and envy) as month after month his masterpieces appeared.

Like most things we dream about when turning professional - the chances of getting the opportunity to draw 'what we would most like to' (and get paid for it!) - are few and far between.

I was only lucky enough to get a handful of those opportunities.

Attached (hopefully is one of them)

Jeremy Banks




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#503 alansart

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 16:56

Originally posted by jayban
I have been following this thread for some time now and thought I might like to 'show my hand'.

Tony's work has always been of great inspiration to me (I was still training as a Technical Illustrator when his line illustrations appeared in Motoring News)
Myself and fellow trainees looked on in awe (and envy) as month after month his masterpieces appeared.

Like most things we dream about when turning professional - the chances of getting the opportunity to draw 'what we would most like to' (and get paid for it!) - are few and far between.

I was only lucky enough to get a handful of those opportunities.

Attached (hopefully is one of them)

Jeremy Banks




Posted Image


Fabulous :)

Are you still illustrating?

#504 jpf

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 17:16

Wow, first of all, thanks to everyone who's shared their work -- this stuff is fantastic!

Funnily enough (I just came across this thread last week or so through the cross-post in the tech forum), the car blog Jalopnik has a post today featuring the work of cutaway artist Yoshihiro Inomoto, with a big gallery. It includes several pairings of finished pieces with development sketches, which I always enjoy seeing.

http://jalopnik.com/...ng-car-cutaways

Keep the stories and the drawings coming!

#505 sterling49

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 17:20

Originally posted by RTH
I know I have said this before but Tony's work is so astonishing it does not look possible that it has been done by human hand, people not in the know I have shown them to really believe they are some sort of colour X-Ray photographic process !
Tony, it truly is an awesome talent, I know you do other things today but I hope you are still keeping your hand in with some new drawings.
Like Andrew Kitson's amazing motor sport paintings for those of us without artistic talent (which is in all honesty at anything like this level 99.9 % of the rest of us ) it is an ability which is incomprehensible in its brilliance.


Agreed Richard, both Andy and Tony are very gifted, I still look at my paintings with amazement. Perhaps we should not post these comments here or we will have two prima donnas at the film show :blush: :lol:

Seriously, great work, amazing that I used to look at Tony's work when I was a tad younger :up:

#506 Tony Matthews

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 17:58

Hi Jeremy, fascinating to see a cutaway of a car that I have illustrated, seeing how you interpreted it! Very nice, and the sort of viewpoint that means you can show a lot of internal detail. It's interesting that you have a brown tint to the tyres, I have, since early on, put some brown into my 'Tyre paint', because that is how I see them especially on the scrubbed tread area. To me they only look truely black when they've been dressed on a show car. Mixed airbrush and paint brush too, if I'm not mistaken, and I like the polished discs!

I was lucky to be exposed to racing car illustrations from the start, as Jim Allington was producing several a year in the sixties and seventies, but I didn't do any myself (I mean complete racing cars) untill I joined Motoring News in 1971, and that was by chance, most of my illustrating life was spent drawing all sorts of strange or mundane subjects, even at MN at least half my time was spent doing small jobs for other publications in the group, and Tee & Whiten printers up the road from the office, my recently-discovered job book is a revelation! When I went freelance the big competition car cutaways took some years to arrive, and if they hadn't I would have been drawing very different things! I hope we'll see more of your 'handful'.

jpf - I had a look at the jalopnic site, and although I'm familiar with Inomoto's work it is definitely not correct to say that he 'influenced' me, as I didn't know of his work untill years after I started, I think it is true to say that Jim was my only influence, although we all absorb something from any source we are exposed to. This may sound a bit hissy, but I am a little annoyed when I am practically quoted without being approached by the writer. Our work is very different, although it may not seem so, I am concerned with accuracy above all, and would never knowingly 'make the engine bigger'.

Edited to say - Or make things up, if I don't know what something looks like I don't show it, but there have been a few occasions when I have been asked to leave things out or show an earlier, supersceded item, like a piston crown. I wouldn't say design engineers working in such competetive fields are paranoid, but they are understandably nervous of giving away their secrets. I almost lost a very important client once when a rival taunted them that all their secrets were obvious because of my work. About the closest I ever came to thumping someone. Only problem was - they were a client too!;)

#507 DavidH

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 19:10

Hello Tony

Thanks for making this a great thread!

I recall you doing this illustration (and there are probably others like it).

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I worked at Michael Jordan and Partners (a graphic design studio) in Hitchin in the late 1970s. As a long time Motoring News reader I was amazed when you walked into the studio, (I didn’t know who you were but quickly put 2 and 2 together), spread out all your b/w reference shots for your latest project and proceeded to enlarge and trace off your initial draft on the studio Grant enlarger. This become a fairly regular occurance, which of course was extremely distracting for me. Occassionally I would recieve a polite cold shoulder if you were working on something secret - I particularly remember the March 75S (?) 2 litre sports car (the one with the twin flower-pot windscreen) - perhaps Mr Mosley had had a word with you?

By the way, your drawings are the only bits of Motoring News I still have - the rest was ‘recycled’. Unfortunately the paper is now severely yellowed and starting to self-destruct. Please can we have a book before they turn to dust?

How about another exhibition like the one you held in Stevenage a few years ago - from the amount of enthusiasm displayed here I’m sure people would travel from miles around! (':clap:')

#508 jayban

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 22:23

Fabulous

Are you still illustrating?



Hi Alan

Yes I am still working as an illustrator, although nowadays I am using a computer and 3D software!

For many years I was an airbrush artist in the West End - but things (technology!) force us to change don't they!

I know some people might see computers as soul-less but I actually find the change quite refreshing and rather fascinating.

(years of mixing paint and breathing in clouds of airbrush dust have their downsides!)

Jeremy

#509 jayban

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 22:52

Hi Tony

Yes - the tyres do look rather brown don't they - I think I might have toned them down a bit if I was undertaking the job nowadays - and 'yes' I did use an airbrush for the larger areas. (the airbrush was my 'weapon of choice' for several years)

A few years back I did do some race car paintings as prints but soon found out that the returns are not worth it!

I have very few of my 'handful' of cutaway cars available these days - most disappeared after they were delivered to the clients. Over the years I have drawn cutaways of everything from oil rigs to hovercraft but sadly apart from some of the pencilwork I don't have much record of most of them.

Jeremy

Here is one of the few that I can lay my hands on (the colours are not that well printed)

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#510 Jones Foyer

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 23:30

There's an Inomoto article on Jalopnik today. Interesting his style is very distinctive- very isometric looking and has a very dense feeling (I think from lots of detail, but more from heavy contrast to his application of value and shading.)


Inomoto article with lots of pics.

#511 Tony Matthews

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 23:36

Hi JF, I refered to the jalopnic site earlier, jpf posted the link. His work (Inomoto's) is very distinctive, but that is what we aim for, unless working in a studio, a trade-mark look that we are reasonably happy doing.

#512 werks prototype

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 01:11

It really is great stuff, and they are all obviously so unique, I really can’t help thinking something is being lost here, drives me mad. I don’t think I am overreacting here, it’s a specific aesthetic and when it’s applied to a thing as emotive as motor sport, well there’s nothing quite like it.

From a commercial point of view I wonder what exactly the problem is, is it a question of the time the drawings take? That doesn’t really cut it because we hear all the time how a single model from say the Gran Turismo series, with all the computer rendering power in the world available, still takes about two months to produce, infact this gestation period is even used as a selling point, implying time = quality.

I understand the significance and importance of the use of CAD in engineering design. But the hand drawn technique applied for illustrative purposes to objects that are often loved and revered can’t have been superseded because that implies that drawing itself is out dated, which is absurd.

Would anybody care to share any insider information as to precisely how and why the hand drawn cutaway has become a less common visual device?

Interesting that the FW 07 was such a popular subject, was that because of its technical or Williams significance?

Jeremy Banks, is there a date for your wonderful Boxer? It has a real character and warmth to it.

Could I ask both Tony Matthews and Jeremy Banks if you still ever get the desire to produce the hand drawn material. For example, one of your own personal favourite cars, in your own time, just because you can?

Does anybody know if anybody ever had a go at a cutaway of the Lancia Beta Monte Carlo?

Any thoughts on the work of Giorgio Piola? Is he actually combining old and new techniques?

Mark.


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#513 IrishMariner

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 05:55

Originally posted by werks prototype
...Any thoughts on the work of Giorgio Piola? Is he actually combining old and new techniques?

Mark.


Oh Dear - I reckon this question will add pages to the thread. I'd be surprised if it's all positive.

Personally, I like Piloa's stuff and always buy his F1 reviews (I even got his Marlboro ones), but I'd say the work he does and the work Tony is responsible for are intended for two different purposes. Piola's sketches are snapshots in a car's development and reflect the speed at which they are prepared. Tony's work, is a definitive representation of a car done to a much higher standard. Much higher. From scratch.

Is it a draw? In my opinion, It's not even close.

#514 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:29

Originally posted by IrishMariner
...but I'd say the work he does and the work Tony is responsible for are intended for two different
purposes.


Correct, IM, Giorgio has said exactly that to Peter Wright when he saw a facsimile of the Ferrari F2000 book, and I would agree, and although I'm sure his average income over the last 25 years has been greater than mine I have no interest in doing what he does, and neither have I ever been asked to do it, apart from a few small drawings for Racecar Engineering and Racetech. The drawings for PW's book F1 Technology were different in that they were explanetory schematics, in fact the purest form of technical illustration. They show how something works.

#515 IrishMariner

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:50

Originally posted by jpf
http://jalopnik.com/...ng-car-cutaways


I look at Inomoto's finished drawings and my thoughts echo those of the old school-teacher that saw some of Tony's first works: "That's a photograph". In this case, they look like computer-renderings. Only when the working drawings are shown does it sink in that they are hand-drawn. Technically, they may be perfect, but they lack....'something'. It's intangible. I'd have Inomoto's working drawings on my wall ahead of the finished article.

Inomoto:Matthews = Wright:Nye

Speaking of working drawings, I opened the Matthews Lancia D-50 working drawing in Paintshop-Pro and applied a 'Sepia' effect. Damned if it doesn't look like something you'd expect to have fallen out of Jano's notebook! Looks well.

#516 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:53

Originally posted by jayban
.. and breathing in clouds of airbrush dust have their downsides!)


I would agree with that, Jeremy, it's reminded me that earlier, when I was describing my working practice, I forgot to mention the mask! A soft aluminium face-plate with disposeable thick cotton pads - probably manufactured by the same company that produces a winged version often advertised on television.

In the early days I just breathed it all in and ruined many handkerchiefs. A big surprise was tipping up at Penske Cars in 1983 to check some detail on a cutaway. Roger Penske happened to be there and took me to one side and asked how much I would charge for some renderings, not cutaways, that he wanted to give to various business associates. Caught on the hop I tried to gain more time to think by asking, amongst other things, how many he wanted. Ten. He must have seen the mild panic on my face because he said "You probably want a little time to consider. Let me know."

Ten large airbrush paintings, all yellow, and no face-mask! I felt sufficiently odd after that for my doctor to arrange a blood test as he thought I might have cadmium poisoning! RP was a wonderful client, and I have much to thank him for.

#517 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:56

Originally posted by IrishMariner
Speaking of working drawings, I opened the Matthews Lancia D-50 working drawing in Paintshop-Pro and applied a 'Sepia' effect. Damned if it doesn't look like something you'd expect to have fallen out of Jano's notebook! Looks well.


Well done IM. However, if you market it I will reluctantly have your guts for garters!;) Actually that was just an opportunity to use a phrase that I haven't heard for years and find amusing!

#518 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 08:59

[QUOTE]Originally posted by werks prototype
[B]... if you still ever get the desire to produce the hand drawn material. For example, one of your own personal favourite cars, in your own time, just because you can?

No.

#519 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 10:28

Originally posted by werks prototype
Would anybody care to share any insider information as to precisely how and why the hand drawn cutaway has become a less common visual device?

Interesting that the FW 07 was such a popular subject, was that because of its technical or Williams significance?

Mark.



Fashions change, Mark, how much illustration of any sort do you see nowadays, apart from photography? I think one reason for the lack of interest/demand is that illustrations - particularly technical illustrations - demand a bit of effort from the viewer. I don't want to start a rant about 'short attention span', but we view things differently today, people want different 'eye candy', and definitely not a complex illustration that demands fairly lengthy srutiny. Three words ending in 'y' - what are the chances of that happening?

I am not offended by disinterest or criticism, I've had a fair amount of both, including a woman proclaiming at high volume "Eugh! I don't like THEM" as she passed my stand in the Artists Gallery at Silverstone some years ago, but when the demand disappears, that's another matter, I needed, still need, to earn money. Illustrating was a job.

There are at least three reasons why the FW07 was so popular, it was a terrific car with green paint on it, it was driven hard by a popular driver, and it was British! Made by a team that was to take over the Lotus mantle as far as I am concerned. I wish Lotus could have carried on at their peak but it wasn't to be. I did cutaways of the 07, 09, 10, 14, 14B (unfinished), 15, 18 and 22. I photographed, intending to draw, the 08, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21. I hoped for many years to do 'Big Book of...' but it didn't work out. I've just remembered that I was asked to do a quick revision of the 18 to make it look like a 19, but it's not a legitimate cutaway in my view.

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#520 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:55

Originally posted by DavidH
How about another exhibition like the one you held in Stevenage a few years ago - from the amount of enthusiasm displayed here I’m sure people would travel from miles around!


Hello David, what a pleasure! I have many memories of MJL, as I was involved socialy as well as through work, in fact I first met MJ in the Highlander, when he had his orange Marcos, Maurice had a ?brown Lotus Europa and there was one othert 'interesting' car - can't recall. I still ocasionally bump into John Heaps. Happy days.

I don't think it could have been the March 75S as I was still working for MN then, and had a Grant in my studio. I found it embarassing useing the MJL machine, long after it had any value for the design team at Walsworth Road and it was moved to the basement garage, only accessable with the use of three seperate keys, and decided I had to be self-sufficient at home, and built my darkroom.

I thought the exhibition in Stevenage was well laid out and lit, but I don't think it was well attended, I get the impression that it was not as well advertised as it could have been, it is unlikely that it will happen again. However, if I can find a photograph I may just post it!

I did a couple of RAF flying helmets for Cromwell, very interesting.

#521 RTH

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 12:26

This is a March 75S


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#522 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 12:46

A shot of part of the exhibition taken from the glazed walkway, hence the odd reflection!

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Edited to say, so it is Richard, and I never did a cutaway, unfortunately! I'm blowed if I can remember the model no. of March 2 litre sports car that I DID do, I'll have to check.

Re-edited to say March BMW 72S, so David, I know not of which you speak.

#523 jayban

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 13:13

Hi Werks Protoype

The Boxer illustration was drawn around 1986 (give or take a year). - not one of my better illustrations - Publishing work,(as opposed to Advertising) which didn't pay a great deal so I had to make a few detail compromises!

There has been a Montecarlo cutaway by Bruno Betti for the Italian magazine Quattroroute. In fact Bruno and his brother Giorgio were great cutaway artists back in the eighties (I say 'were' - they might even still be around) - the quality of their work is similar to Tony Matthews and ranges from Bentley Blowers to F1 Coopers to 917, 962 to even Formula 2 cars.

Quattroroute used to produce a thick paperback 'Yearbook' every year full of cutaways - I have a couple in front of me at the moment. when I get a quiet moment I will try and scan a few of them.

Jeremy

#524 P. Dron

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 13:34

Originally posted by jayban
Hi Werks Protoype

The Boxer illustration was drawn around 1986 (give or take a year). - not one of my better illustrations - Publishing work,(as opposed to Advertising) which didn't pay a great deal so I had to make a few detail compromises!

There has been a Montecarlo cutaway by Bruno Betti for the Italian magazine Quattroruote. In fact Bruno and his brother Giorgio were great cutaway artists back in the eighties (I say 'were' - they might even still be around) - the quality of their work is similar to Tony Matthews and ranges from Bentley Blowers to F1 Coopers to 917, 962 to even Formula 2 cars.

Quattroruote used to produce a thick paperback 'Yearbook' every year full of cutaways - I have a couple in front of me at the moment. when I get a quiet moment I will try and scan a few of them.

Jeremy


Since post 385, showing the splendid Concorde cutaway by Theo Page, something has been bugging me: is my sieve-like memory playing tricks, or did I once see a Betti cutaway of Concorde? If so, it would be interesting to compare the two. And indeed, where are they now, the Bettis?

#525 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 13:35

I remember a Betti cutaway of the Shuttle - very impressive.

#526 werks prototype

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 15:12

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Fashions change, Mark, how much illustration of any sort do you see nowadays, apart from photography? I think one reason for the lack of interest/demand is that illustrations - particularly technical illustrations - demand a bit of effort from the viewer. I don't want to start a rant about 'short attention span', but we view things differently today, people want different 'eye candy', and definitely not a complex illustration that demands fairly lengthy srutiny. Three words ending in 'y' - what are the chances of that happening?



Well, that makes perfect sense to me; I suppose the only other question then is whether or not this has resulted in an evolution or just an over saturation that has ultimately led to a form of visual ‘dumbing down’. And I suppose that question kind of answers itself.

I do think that the way that we look at these hand drawn cutaways, in many ways is similar to the way in which we would read a book; we know we can’t get ‘it’ all at once, the information and the technique, so it requires a period of time, we return to it and ‘read’ through the drawing. This is a phenomenon that is also often attributed to great painting. So there is something particularly relevant Tony about seeing your work in this gallery context.

I hope you are able to post something of the unfinished FW 14B at some point.

Mark.

#527 werks prototype

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 15:15

Originally posted by jayban
The Boxer illustration was drawn around 1986 (give or take a year).

There has been a Montecarlo cutaway by Bruno Betti for the Italian magazine Quattroroute. In fact Bruno and his brother Giorgio were great cutaway artists back in the eighties (I say 'were' - they might even still be around) - the quality of their work is similar to Tony Matthews and ranges from Bentley Blowers to F1 Coopers to 917, 962 to even Formula 2 cars.

Quattroroute used to produce a thick paperback 'Yearbook' every year full of cutaways - I have a couple in front of me at the moment. when I get a quiet moment I will try and scan a few of them. Jeremy




Thanks very much Jeremy, if that is at all possible, then it would be greatly appreciated. I will also look further into Bruno and Giorgio Betti.

Around 1986 you say for the Ferrari, that makes your wonderful illustration of the Boxer a contemporary one then (if production ceased at around 1984). It does have that great feel to it.

#528 macoran

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 17:49

Originally posted by Tony Matthews

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IF....I had been there.......you would've had to drag me out !!! at closing time.

#529 Stephen Miller

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 18:24

I have looked at this thread in the past, but each time I come back there is new material and discussion which just furthers my enthusiasm for this type of artwork.

Mr. Tony Matthews, your cutaways were how I began to learn about the technicalities of motor racing! Your drawings showed us how stuff works. As a modeler they have been invaluable in pursuing my passion for technical detail.

I concur with WP, the view that "....Do you think that in part, the spirit and the craft of the hand drawn cutaway rather than having being truly absorbed by the computer workstation has in part survived, through a change of medium and is alive and well in certain contemporary model making specialisms?..."
But I also have to agree, as you say, you cannot print 1000 copies of highly detailed model. Modeling is just another medium for communication!

Tony, I think you are as much a part of automotive history as the history you record. I hope you continue to make entries to supplement your illustrious archives.

cheers

Stephen Miller
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#530 Stephen Miller

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 19:16

While not to diminish the art of the cutaway, there is another automotive art form that shaped my enthusiasm for motor sport art - the four view illustrations by such artists as Roger Taylor, Etienne Becker, Walter Wright, Gordon Davies etc.

In combination with cutaways, 4 view illustrations were equally capable of firing the imagination.

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Stephen
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#531 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 20:19

I agree Stephen, and at one stage I did four-views while Jim Allington was doing his cutaways and this was offered as a package to the magazines that were interested. I remember doing Cooper and Lola GP cars, but not the Type numbers - no records. I've also done side views for Williams GPE and to accompany some of my cutaways. I have several volumes about fighters and bombers of WWII, and the four-views and collections of side-views showing the small changes that were made from Mark to Mark are fascinating. I suppose what I'm saying is that I find all types of illustration interesting - I did several exploded drawings of Indy Cars, and of course the exploded drawing is the mainstay of all instruction manuals.

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#532 Stephen Miller

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 20:23

Yes, I forgot that you mentioned these in one of your previous posts.

Excellent work.

#533 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 20:31

I've just added Speed Details to my favourites list!

#534 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 04:29

I have been looking at the cut away by Tony Matthews of the 1958 Ferrari Dino F 1 car, and noticed that it was drawn with six twin choke carburettors. The 2.5 litre Dino had a V 6 engine and the photos that I can find show it with three twin choke carburettors. Was this car a special with a V 12 or am I confused? The visible exhaust system is three pipes into one, which would suggest a V 6.

#535 eldougo

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 07:51

Using your web site i came across the Dan Gurney model did he ever us that tailpipe metal plate wing at all?In the official Indy pic for that year it was not showing.
1986 it might have give some people a good idea because next year cars stated to have little winglets ,tail wing and body tailwings this could be the answer we looked at on another TNF Threadwe had regarding who had the first wing on a f1 or Indy car.

Thanks Stephen.



http://members.shaw....m/indycars.html

#536 macoran

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 12:26

Originally posted by Robin Fairservice
I have been looking at the cut away by Tony Matthews of the 1958 Ferrari Dino F 1 car, and noticed that it was drawn with six twin choke carburettors. The 2.5 litre Dino had a V 6 engine and the photos that I can find show it with three twin choke carburettors. Was this car a special with a V 12 or am I confused? The visible exhaust system is three pipes into one, which would suggest a V 6.


Check out these pics
http://images.google...ttp...l=nl&sa=N

#537 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 14:42

Posted Image
Hi Robin, this particular Dino has a V12, I may have made a few minor errors in my time, but shoe-horning the wrong engine into a chassis isn't one of them - but I am delighted that you looked closely at the cutaway, they are meant to be studied! :)

#538 bradbury west

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 14:49

Check out Tony Smith's ex Neil Corner, et al, 6 carb, 3 ltr V12 Dino at the next relevant event. Nothing wrong with the artwork.
Roger Lund

#539 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 16:51

Thanks for confirming that Tony is right, and thatthere was a V12 Dino. I always understood that the factory number type number "246" should mean 2.4 litre six cylinder. I wonder what the factory called a V12 engined car? I have a copy of Alan Henry's book, "Ferrari the Grand Prix Cars", but can't find a reference in there to a V12 Dino car. It would be nice to check out this car in real life, but I doubt that they would bring it out to western Canada to show me!

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#540 bradbury west

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:40

Robin, I grant you that the car was not a 1958 car, but if you BB Search "Pat Hoare" there are loads of threads from which you can glean information., esp post 11 here;
http://forums.autosp...light=Pat Hoare
I suppose there are links under Nigel or Neil Corner, probably with pictures
Roger Lund

#541 GIGLEUX

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:43

It seems that nobody remembers that late in 1960 Pat Hoare, New-Zeland, ordered a "Tasman Special" for he 1960-61 summer season. The car was ex-F1 Dino 246 (#0007) fitted with a 250 TR 3.0 liter V12. It received customer number F 0788.
The car,received in 1965 a bodyshell which make it looking like a GTO.
In 1978 it was acquired by Neil Corner who gave it its Dino single seater trim.

#542 Stephen Miller

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by eldougo
Using your web site i came across the Dan Gurney model did he ever us that tailpipe metal plate wing at all?In the official Indy pic for that year it was not showing.
1986 it might have give some people a good idea because next year cars stated to have little winglets ,tail wing and body tailwings this could be the answer we looked at on another TNF Threadwe had regarding who had the first wing on a f1 or Indy car.

Thanks Stephen.



http://members.shaw....m/indycars.html


The model in question represents the car Gurney drove to victory at Mosport in 1968 a few weeks after his 2nd place at Indy. Yes it did indeed have what was described in that era as an "exhaust pipe brace"(nudge, nudge, wink, wink!) At Indy in '68 he had a small single plate attached to the left exhaust pipe only( left side weight bias, more load on the left exhaust pipe!?!) By the time of Mosport it grew to span both pipes with a small bent up section across the rear( for added strength no doubt!).

"Exhaust pipe braces" at Indy which may have been a contributing factor to downforce, actually date back to Gurney's #31 in 1966. Official qualifying photos clearly show his #31 as the only Ford Quad cam with that kind of exhaust pipe bracing. All Gurney Eagles including Hulme, Gurney& Grant as well as the Yarborough Vollstedt in 1967 included similar exhaust pipe bracing(weak pipes?). In 1968 there were 3 other Eagles with exhaust pipe braces at Indy in addition to Gurney's. By 1969, as you so correctly observe, wedges and winglets were the rage!

Stephen

#543 fines

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 18:08

But the first wing on an Indy Car was Smokey Yunick's in 1962, of course - and it was a bit more substantial than those "exhaust braces", too...;)

#544 alansart

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 19:07

Originally posted by jayban


Hi Alan

Yes I am still working as an illustrator, although nowadays I am using a computer and 3D software!

For many years I was an airbrush artist in the West End - but things (technology!) force us to change don't they!

I know some people might see computers as soul-less but I actually find the change quite refreshing and rather fascinating.

(years of mixing paint and breathing in clouds of airbrush dust have their downsides!)

Jeremy



We seem to have run a similar path, although I've not got too much involved in the 3D stuff yet.

Computer art is only soul-less when used in computer clip art mode. Treat it as an extension of your art and the possibilities are endless (if you can find someone to pay for it). No matter what is used to produce any artwork the artist still needs to understand perspective, colour, light & dark and in our case at least a basic level of engineering.

I don't miss the clouds of airbrush dust! I had a small office built onto my last house (around 1989) and had an huge industrial extractor fan built into the wall, next to my drawing board. It was pretty damn good but I had to be careful if someone opened an outside door - paper and bit's would start to fly across the room! I do have a problem with erratic nose bleeds and it has been suggested, in consultation with my doctor, that part of the problem maybe from my days of inhaling watercolour, gouache and dyes from the airbush.

Mind you my eyes are being knackered by the computer screen :cool:

#545 weisler

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 20:24

Not sure if this artist has been discussed in the tread, but his work is pretty incredible, like everything in this thread!


http://jalopnik.com/...ng-car-cutaways

#546 Kpy

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 21:18

Originally posted by weisler
Not sure if this artist has been discussed in the tread, but his work is pretty incredible, like everything in this thread!


He has. Try putting Inomoto in a BB search if you don't want to read the whole thread.

#547 vadim

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 21:36

Originally posted by weisler
Not sure if this artist has been discussed in the tread, but his work is pretty incredible, like everything in this thread!



Are you sure in your able to reading? Not everything in this thread but previous page at least. Sorry if it sounded rough but it start to seems as the jalopnik spam.

On the Page 13 (prewious page BTW) we have:
direct links on jalopnik.com:
- post 505 by "jpf"
- post 511 by Jones Foyer
- post 516 "IrishMariner" quoted "jpf's" post

posts about Yoshihiro Inomoto:
- post 505 by "jpf"
- post 507 by Tony Matthews
- post 511 by Jones Foyer
- post 512 by Tony Matthews


And please, can anybody explain me why Yoshihiro Inomoto's works is so "pretty incredible"? Sorry, but I don't think so.

#548 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 21:51

Many thanks for the information about the V 12 Dino. Like other people I am amazed at how much information there is out there if you know where to look. I think that the Dino looks much better with a V 12 engine, how a Ferrari should look. The V 6 Dinos seem to have a lot of spare space under the engine cover, as if there was an intention to put a bigger engine in one day.
Like others I am also fascinated with the cut away drawings. As a junior enginneer I used to draw, and had to produce sectioned drawings, but the section lines were alaways straight, and I was drawing reinforced concrete structures. At school I had an Art teacher who said in my report one year that I would never get any where if I continued to rely on a ruler and compass for drawing!

#549 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 21:57

Originally posted by Robin Fairservice
At school I had an Art teacher who said in my report one year that I would never get any where if I continued to rely on a ruler and compass for drawing!


Hi Robin, glad we sorted the engine query. The cutaway was a private commision, and a great pleasure to do. I'm not sure I did it full justice, possibly because the rear end is so attractive - I was tempted to do two illustrations, one from each end!

#550 jayban

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 22:39

Mind you my eyes are being knackered by the computer screen




Hi Alan

I can relate to this - I never wore glasses until I started working on the computer

Jeremy