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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#5801 MEI

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 19:43

From Inside 100 Great Cars 1986 Porsche 928 S
Credited to Technical Art
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I do congratulate you - that couldn't have been an easy join to hide!


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#5802 macoran

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 21:54

Guys,
It has been rather quiet for a couple of days, so thought I would throw out a scan that I just tried to clean a bit. I am not sure who the illustrator is for this one, as there is no reference of any sort for this, or for a couple of other pieces that seem to be by the same person. This is an early Ford GT-40, as shown in the May, 1964 issue of Sports Car Graphic. If anyone recognizes the artist, I would appreciate the information.
I have to tell you that I hate these color overlays, as they never held reasonable registration, so putting them together can be a real thrill. The printing was really horrid, too, as this has so many destroyed lines, messed up screen overlays, the mis-registration, and a variety of printing flaws that are a real bear to clean up.
Tom West

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I really don't have a clue Tom.
I have the article somewhere, and will have to dig it up to see if the artist is credited in the by-lines.
I think I have offered before that it could be a Vic Berris ( the detailing of the nuts on the gearbox housing),
but it may even be a Clarence LaTourette on one of his better days. I don't see a Gordon Bruce in it.
All the other GT40s (Hatton/Page/Ellis have been aired), and it doesn't look like a Hostler/Collins or Marsden.

Ibsen ? any ideas ?

#5803 macoran

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 21:57

Do tell, then, what would your ideal name be? Nothing wrong with Tony, surely? :wave:

I always had something with inventing and conjuring up names.
I think Tony would make a fabulous.......
EDWARD WORTHINGTON-MANDEVILLE

Eddie to us !!

#5804 TWest

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 22:13

I really don't have a clue Tom.
I have the article somewhere, and will have to dig it up to see if the artist is credited in the by-lines.
I think I have offered before that it could be a Vic Berris ( the detailing of the nuts on the gearbox housing),
but it may even be a Clarence LaTourette on one of his better days. I don't see a Gordon Bruce in it.
All the other GT40s (Hatton/Page/Ellis have been aired), and it doesn't look like a Hostler/Collins or Marsden.

Ibsen ? any ideas ?



This isn't the most precise thing I have ever seen in the details, but the printing quality also leaves much to be desired, so I would attribute most of the shortcomings to that rather than the illustration itself. I had sort of indexed through that stuff, and agree that it doesn't appear to be LaTourette from that time, or Gordon Bruce. Doubt it would be Vic Berris as the style if very different there, too.
Agree on your list of who it isn't, just can't figure out who it IS. Have a couple of more of those drawings from that time without ID, so will see if any of them ring any bells.
Tom West

#5805 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 22:18

Just in awe of the guys who do these drawings everytime I visit this thread. You guys should be lecturing design students on presentation techniques.

What size typically would a full car cutaway be drawn at? A2? A1? Bigger?

#5806 Jones Foyer

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 22:47

Just in awe of the guys who do these drawings everytime I visit this thread. You guys should be lecturing design students on presentation techniques.

What size typically would a full car cutaway be drawn at? A2? A1? Bigger?


While we're on the topic of technical questions, maybe Tony can answer what an illustrator does when the ellipse needed to be drawn is something like 32 degrees- very specifically not a standard template ellipse size...


#5807 ibsenop

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 23:51

Ferrari 500 F2 1953 by Giovanni Cavara.

From Revival kit instruction sheet. Higher resolution of the same cutaway posted at page 52.

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Edited by ibsenop, 10 August 2010 - 23:57.


#5808 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 23:53

EDWARD WORTHINGTON-MANDEVILLE

Eddie to us !!

Marc! Have you been reading my mail?

Best regards, Eddie.

#5809 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 00:17

What size typically would a full car cutaway be drawn at? A2? A1? Bigger?

For me - 20"x30" roughly, an old Imperial size, and used by the main supplier of illustration board in the UK. Next size up was 30"x40", and I always had, still have, a couple in stock in case I needed something slightly bigger, as inevitably an illustration would sometimes 'grow'. In 'The Old Days', using a hard-surfaced board and ink line you could splice a strip on if a front wing suddenly became determined to leap off the edge, but with softer, water-colour boards it was more important to have an un-joined surface.

You have to take into account a couple of points - one, the size of the smallest detail that you have to represent, and two, comfort, whether you can comfortably reach the top of the board if, as I did, you work flat on a desk. My cutaway of the Ilmor Mercedes 500I engine was done on a purpose-built easel, as it was a tall drawing and I found that I just couldn't work on the plenum chamber flat, and it was impossible to work on it upside down - the illustration, not me. My mother was a trapeze artist, I can work in any position. Look...

Jim Allington and I discussed the size issue once, and as a result he tried doing a cutaway of a GP Lola on half-sized board, but found it took longer to do to the same standard. It just took more time doing much finer shading. I did toy with the idea of doing one much larger, but never got beyond the layout stage. If you work to a bigger scale it means that you should show smaller detail - but where do you stop? The illustration will eventualy be reproduced quite small in a magazine, the smallest detail will disappear, possibly even lost in the screen of the print.

#5810 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 00:29

While we're on the topic of technical questions, maybe Tony can answer what an illustrator does when the ellipse needed to be drawn is something like 32 degrees- very specifically not a standard template ellipse size...

You can 'squirm' the guide as you draw inside it, or, if it's a reasonable size, use French curves. It is often the case that it just isn't that critical. For instance, along a crankshaft you might find that the point where you should use 32 degrees - my 'degree' symbol key process no longer works, apparently - is inbetween two main journals which are 30 and 35, so no need to draw it. On an illustration where it is critical, or where it would be obvious if you fudged the issue, then you just find a way, but essentially, as I started this ramble, you shift the guide slightly as you use it.

#5811 Tom Johnson

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:30

You can 'squirm' the guide as you draw inside it, or, if it's a reasonable size, use French curves. It is often the case that it just isn't that critical. For instance, along a crankshaft you might find that the point where you should use 32 degrees - my 'degree' symbol key process no longer works, apparently - is inbetween two main journals which are 30 and 35, so no need to draw it. On an illustration where it is critical, or where it would be obvious if you fudged the issue, then you just find a way, but essentially, as I started this ramble, you shift the guide slightly as you use it.


What Tony said. As I analized the shape of ellipses early on in my drawing career, I noticed the major difference between two ellipses which were 5 degrees apart from each other was for the most part along the minor axis. So, like Tony said, as you are drawing an in-between size, say 32 degrees, you simply 'squirm' or shift the ellipse template as necessary along its minor axis to achieve the desired size.

Edited by Tom Johnson, 11 August 2010 - 01:32.


#5812 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 11:39

... you simply 'squirm' or shift the ellipse template as necessary along its minor axis to achieve the desired size.


If you look closely at Tom's photo you can see him doing a bit of squirming...

#5813 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 15:40

Just to remind anyone in Cutawayland that is not sure, the minor axis is across the narrow part of the ellipse, along the centreline of a cylinder, in some respects. I say that because it took me years to realise that, to me it was counter-intuative. Intuitive intuitive intuitive.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 August 2010 - 16:19.


#5814 Jones Foyer

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 18:05

If you look closely at Tom's photo you can see him doing a bit of squirming...


I love that term! Hillarious!

#5815 Tom Johnson

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 19:06

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Here is a grubby little sketch on the working drawing of the Ferrari F2000 engine, as I was working out what angle ellipses to use for the valves. Not only are they splayed 24 degrees transversely, but 6 degrees logitudinally, so the angles had to be added or sutracted from the main angle of that cylinder, which is 50 degrees. It is not possible to use an ellipse guide to give exact ellipses for all the valves, there are going to be anomolies, but it is possible to use ellipses near enough to look OK, maybe slightly too fat, maybe slightly too slim - you draw them and see how they look. If it is not possible to get them all looking right with available guides, that's when the squirming comes in. Ignore the inked 40, that is to do with the crankshaft.

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The finished result.


Ahhhhhhh....Excellent visual aid, Tony.

Another tid-bit of info that helped me get any ellipse looking right was using basic geometry. When a circle is confined by a perfect square, the circle will always touch each mid-point of the sides of the square. So, if I had trouble getting an ellipse to look right, I would construct a square in perspective at the location of the circle, then choose the right ellipse or combination thereof to meet the mid-points of the perspective square.


#5816 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 20:38

Another tid-bit of info that helped me get any ellipse looking right was using basic geometry. When a circle is confined by a perfect square, the circle will always touch each mid-point of the sides of the square. So, if I had trouble getting an ellipse to look right, I would construct a square in perspective at the location of the circle, then choose the right ellipse or combination thereof to meet the mid-points of the perspective square.

Now that is interesting - I always worked the other way, all my squares were based on an ellipse! In fact everything was based on a sphere - ah, the beautiful sphere - as any section is a circle, every circle is an ellipse, and from any ellipse you can construct a square. The only way I could see myself using a square to define an ellipse is if I knew the square was perfect, and my method of construction didn't give me that assurance.

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I may have posted this before, or one very much like it. At the bottom is my sphere, my sphere, drawn on a chosen crank centreline. A horizontal was drawn through the centre of the sphere, and an ellipse chosen for the crankshaft. This determines all the other ellipses, in every plane, chose another ellipse for the crankshaft and all the other ellipses change too. Similarly, change the horizontal, and all ellipses bar the crankshaft change. Oh, what fun... It is very different to working from an outline, constructing the perspective to match the confines of the engine. Neither is best, but the first method is what I used when an engine didn't exist, or enough of one to photograph as a whole.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 August 2010 - 21:13.


#5817 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:04

It occurred to me that some people may not be familiar with airbrushes - and the use of the term in the 'Popular Press' with reference to models and celebrities can cause confusion. Here is my small collection of airbrushes and a couple of larger cousins.

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At the top a DeVilbiss/Aerograph Super 63 with large reservoir for larger areas, followed by a standard body, small reservoir model. Then the Paasche Turbo, looking like a medical instrument or torture device, and probably the most difficult to become proficient with. Last, not an airbrush but an air eraser, having a hardened orifice to allow the use of abrasive powder. I only used it once, and it worked well, although the cat died of silicosis. I have plans for it in model-making - only plans...

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Next, the smallest - as far as I know - 'proper' spraygun by DeVilbiss, used to paint a couple of race helmets, but not to the standard that you normally see, and I mean worse, not better.

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Lastly, my largest model, with proper fan control, unlike the littl'un, which produces a cone of medium, bought for a project that didn't reach fruition, but hey, it's lovely bit of kit...

Now, the term'airbrush' means to use software to alter images, remove blemishes and bite-marks from the inner thigh of a 'model' as she stumbles from a nightclub and falls into a limo. Actually, I've just realised those are the little things that the press thrive on, so would not be airbrushed out, but you get the idea.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 12 August 2010 - 11:56.


#5818 ibsenop

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:55

Mercedes Benz W 163 1939 by GI. TO. (?)

From Revival kit instruction sheet.

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#5819 Tom Johnson

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 18:29

I was going through some old stacks of drawings and found a bunch of Inomoto line-art cutaway prints. They are 14" X 20" prints on very nice slightly textured heavy paper. They were part of a collection that a Japanese Artist gave to me 20 years ago and I thought that I had lost them. I am keeping the BRM, but any of the others are available if anyone out there is interested. Some examples are: 1954 MB 300SL Coupe, 1958 Ferrari 250 Testa Rosa, 1935 Auto Union B Type, 1925 Ford Model T, 1948 Ferrari Tipo 166 Spider Corsa, and 1930 Aston Martin International.

Tom

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#5820 macoran

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 21:12

hmmmm nearly 3 hours and apparantly no intrest ?
crazy isn't it ?

#5821 ibsenop

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 17:44

Cutawyland moving slow this week.

Yesterday I received from Amazon a book called " Sports Racing Cars" by Anthony Pritchard containing some black & white cutaways.

page 6 - Matra 630 by Robert Roux
page 55 - Frazer Nash Le Mans 1956 chassis by F. W. Beak 9 not a cutaway)
pages 60/61 - Ferrari 166 1947 cycle-wing bodywork - no credit given to the artist
page 66/67 - Jaguar C Type by John Ferguson
pages 70/71 - Cunningham C-2R 1952 by Rex Burnett
pages 74/75 - Mercedes Benz 300 SL coupe 1952 by Siegfried Werner
page 105 Aston - Martin DB3S by John Ferguson
pages 110/111 - Porsche 718 RSK by Charles Hanford(?)
page 117 - Jaguar D Type by Vic Berris
page 124/125 - Ferrari Monza by Vic Berris
page 128/129 - Osca MT4 by Theo Page
page 133 - Mercedes Benz 300 SLR chassis by Max Millar (not a cutaway)
pages 136/137 - Maserati 450S - no credit given to the artist
page 142/143 - Lotus Eleven 1957 by John Palmer
page 146 - Aston Martin DBR1 1958 by T. D. Collins
pages 150/151 - Lister-Jaguar Knobbly 1958 by James A. Allington
pages 162/163 - Ferrari 250 TR 1958 by R. J. Way
page 168 - Lotus 23 by James A. Allington
page 172 - Lola GT 1963 by Vic Berris
page 177 - Ford GT40 1964 by Theo Page
pages 180/181 - Lola T70 Spyder by Theo Page
page 187 - Ford MkIV 1967 by James A. Allington
page 191 - Ferrari 330 P4 1967 by James A. Allington
page 194 - Chaparral 2F 1967 by James A. Allington
pages 208/209 - Porsche 917K by Bill Bennett

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ISBN 978-1844251381

Edited by ibsenop, 15 August 2010 - 13:25.


#5822 DHFiallo

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 22:00

I was going through some old stacks of drawings and found a bunch of Inomoto line-art cutaway prints. They are 14" X 20" prints on very nice slightly textured heavy paper. They were part of a collection that a Japanese Artist gave to me 20 years ago and I thought that I had lost them. I am keeping the BRM, but any of the others are available if anyone out there is interested. Some examples are: 1954 MB 300SL Coupe, 1958 Ferrari 250 Testa Rosa, 1935 Auto Union B Type, 1925 Ford Model T, 1948 Ferrari Tipo 166 Spider Corsa, and 1930 Aston Martin International.

Tom

I am interested and in particular the Auto Union. can you PM me some details?

#5823 dosco

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:40

I always had something with inventing and conjuring up names.
I think Tony would make a fabulous.......
EDWARD WORTHINGTON-MANDEVILLE

Eddie to us !!


James Wellington Prescott ...?

#5824 macoran

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:42

James Wellington Prescott ...?

That is his brother by the super-rich daddy

Eddie frequently calls himself Jim !!

Edited by macoran, 14 August 2010 - 23:44.


#5825 dosco

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:51

That is his brother by the super-rich daddy

Eddie frequently calls himself Jim !!


Excellent!!

#5826 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:53

Eddie frequently calls himself Jim !!

Jim! Dear Jim - haven't heard from him - Jim, him, bit of poetry there - for decades! Same mummy, different daddy, otherwise like peas in a pod, don'tcha know?

Nite nite - Eddie.

#5827 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:56

Actually, as the child brides is on the blower to someone in Australia I might as well have a snifter, so cancell the old nite nite!

Cheers! Yr afctnt cllgue Eddie.

#5828 macoran

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 00:08

Actually, as the child brides is on the blower to someone in Australia I might as well have a snifter, so cancell the old nite nite!

Cheers! Yr afctnt cllgue Eddie.

I am puzzling on the afctnt

#5829 macoran

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 00:09

I am puzzling on the afctnt

if it was affctnt I'd have a clue


#5830 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 08:23

if it was affctnt I'd have a clue

Yes, sorry, I meant aectonaettte.

#5831 CVA

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 10:20

ferrari 250gt california by René Bellu
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#5832 Karabas

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:25

"Cutawyland moving slow this week"

:)

Some works of the Japanese illustrators:

Hideo Hatsugai

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Takashi Jufuku

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Takeshi Hosokawa

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Yasuhide Ishizaki

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Sorry, NoName Artist :confused:

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Edited by Karabas, 16 August 2010 - 12:38.


#5833 CVA

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:50

Hi Tony,
You have posted ,on page 4, your marvellous drawing of the aston martin dbr1 in a small size, i love this car(like a lot of people),could you post it in higher size?

Thank you

Christian

#5834 CVA

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:20

another japanese illustrator:Makoto Ouchi and one of his last realisation seen in the Khulsey site
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#5835 macoran

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 19:54

Time you guys heard from me again.
My sister came over from Thailand for a few weeks, and brought along a few kilos of clippings
and stuff which I still have over at the house there.
Some of the stuff she had with her is pretty good, so I'll have some stuff to scan.
Here is a Vic Berris cutaway of the 1964 Ferrari 1512 engine, as published in Autocar.
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#5836 macoran

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 20:23

And I hope one of you can identify the artist for this Ferrari 246 Sports
It is a clipping from an issue of Sports Car Graphic
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#5837 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:13

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Interesting "Crick and Watson" LR spring...

#5838 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:27

Very strange - the RR spring looks OK. I wonder why ...

#5839 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:50

Very strange - the RR spring looks OK. I wonder why ...

Obviously Crick and Watson hadn't got that far! Springs - helixes - do seem to cause confusion. If you look at the valve springs in Vic Berris' Ferrari engine cutaway, looks like a stack of washers. I don't like to be critical, but so many times I see valve springs that are not helical...

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#5840 macoran

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:51

Interesting "Crick and Watson" LR spring...

I recall you remarking something similar about another cutaway quite some time ago, but just don't recall which.
That may give a clue to the artist.

#5841 Jones Foyer

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 22:52

Interesting "Crick and Watson" LR spring...


Had to look up the reference! :rotfl:

#5842 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 23:04

Had to look up the reference! :rotfl:

:up:

Marc, I do occasionally comment, and I probably have mentioned valves prings before, but I have never seen a road spring like that before, and I can't think that I ever will again!

#5843 CVA

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 08:39

Alfa Romeo 1750 gt veloce ,artist?
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Thank you very much,Tony for your aston."you are the best"

#5844 Duc-Man

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 09:09

:up:

Marc, I do occasionally comment, and I probably have mentioned valves prings before, but I have never seen a road spring like that before, and I can't think that I ever will again!


I've never seen someting like that at all. That one spring looks like a double helix instead of a helix.

#5845 ratkinso

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 14:39

Hello all,

Please forgive me interrupting the flow of this amazing thread, but having been a longtime lurker, I have now come across some material which may be of interest to this thread's enthusiasts. I have a number of Motor magazine inserts from 1938/9 entitled Technical Review. Each one is 4 sides with a description of the topic on the first page, and then three pages of cutaway drawings (unattributed as far as I can see) of examples illustrating the topic. I have attempted to post the code for 2 of these pages illustrating different approaches to "V-type engines". I have another dozen or so that I could post if they are of interest.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Regards,

Richard

#5846 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 17:19

Hello all,

Please forgive me interrupting the flow of this amazing thread, but having been a longtime lurker, I have now come across some material which may be of interest to this thread's enthusiasts. I have a number of Motor magazine inserts from 1938/9 entitled Technical Review. Each one is 4 sides with a description of the topic on the first page, and then three pages of cutaway drawings (unattributed as far as I can see) of examples illustrating the topic. I have attempted to post the code for 2 of these pages illustrating different approaches to "V-type engines". I have another dozen or so that I could post if they are of interest.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Regards,

Richard

Very interesting Richard, thanks. Not only reversed out of blue but proper valve springs too! More please...

#5847 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 17:30

"Well, Mr Crick, a very productive day!"
"Yes Mr Watson, the LR spring is up and running, it won't take long to do the RR too!"
"Oh, if only I could, Mr Crick, but it's darts night at 'The Old Double Helix', and they will get upset if I don't make up the team."
"'The Double Helix', Mr Watson? I thought you were a regular at the 'Twisted Cheese'! Mind you, double helix - double helix - it seems to ring a bell - let's just have another look at those X-ray crystallographs we did earlier..."

Edited by Tony Matthews, 18 August 2010 - 17:36.


#5848 macoran

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 19:53

Hello all,

Please forgive me interrupting the flow of this amazing thread, but having been a longtime lurker, I have now come across some material which may be of interest to this thread's enthusiasts. I have a number of Motor magazine inserts from 1938/9 entitled Technical Review. Each one is 4 sides with a description of the topic on the first page, and then three pages of cutaway drawings (unattributed as far as I can see) of examples illustrating the topic. I have attempted to post the code for 2 of these pages illustrating different approaches to "V-type engines". I have another dozen or so that I could post if they are of interest.
Regards,

Richard

I think we should have some RULES for this thread New posters SHOULDN"T apologize for posting anything,especially not if it is good stuff from 1938.
Carry on Richard! ..........quote Sydney James

#5849 bradbury west

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 20:55

Richard, you will find you are among kindred spirits; "leaning on an open door" springs to mind.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 18 August 2010 - 20:56.


#5850 CVA

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 06:40

peugeot 206 wrc by etai
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