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#6001 yasmin

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 22:00

I don't know if Volke had illustrators. They were loaded down with up to 150 Brits at any time in modelling, design, engineering and the inevitable tinnies. They were some of the most miserable devils I ever encountered. They earned almost as much as us yet their accommodation and flights were paid for and they were even lent cars. They always seemed to come from Nuneaton, or Treacle Town as we always were told to call it, just to upset them!
I had a great Scottish designer to work with called Scott Ferrier, who could design, illustrate and was a fair engineer too. Designers are not supposed to know how things work.
My speciality turned out to be mechanisms and he would always come and chat clever mechs. with me, often bringing his favourite cutaways to illustrate (sorry!) points.

I wonder where he ended up.

alansart, not sure what you meant by the go away for a few weeks comment. Am I being thick or missing something?

Maybe it's just late!
Cheers,
Martin


Scott Ferrier has now settled in Melbourne Australia and doing great work down here.

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#6002 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 22:17

alansart, not sure what you meant by the go away for a few weeks comment. Am I being thick or missing something?

At the risk of speaking for Alan, he's either been on his hols or working away from home.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 07 September 2010 - 22:17.


#6003 macoran

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 22:52

The first car I actually bought and paid for with my own money
A Fiat 850
Vic Berris' cutaway
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Franco Rosso's cutaway
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Alloisi's cutaway of the 850 powertrain
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#6004 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 22:58

Alloisi's cutaway of the 850 powertrain
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A really sweet little illustration - nice colour too, red ochre on creamy yellow...

#6005 macoran

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 23:22

but I will have to rely on others to stich the bits together...

There's some nasty stitchers on line here Tony!

#6006 harerton

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 00:12

My first contribution...

2 cutaways of my favorite car, the Ford Maverick. These are from the second phase (1977-1979) of the Brazilian model, with the 4 cyl. engine. These illustrations were probably done by Walter Britto.

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Harerton

Edited by harerton, 08 September 2010 - 13:38.


#6007 alansart

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 06:29

alansart, not sure what you meant by the go away for a few weeks comment. Am I being thick or missing something?


I've been on holiday in France for nearly 3 weeks. It always seems to happen that when I go away another interesting person starts posting here :)


#6008 Henri Greuter

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:05

Sorry Henri,

I undestand nothing about the Novis and I put in the Index this way => Novi Ferguson by Robert Thatcher - page 148
so I tried to correct this way => Novi Ferguson 1960 (Kurtis-Novi 500F) by Robert Thatcher - page 148

Please, tell me the right way.



Hi Ibsen,

No need to apologize, you're doing an absolute fantastic job.

Thing is a bit complicated.
What are called generally being Novi's are basicly chassis built by primarilly Frank Kurtis, fitted with engines that in 1941 were named Winfield V8, had this name on the entry blanks up into the 50's but the general public called the engines Novi and the cars fitted with them are alos most often called Novi.
I think it depends on what line you follow but you could catalogue all cars as being Novis since they are best known under that name.
Thus they you have the 1960 Novi (which used a Kurtis 500F type chassis) and the 1964 Novi-Ferguson (which had the Ferguson P104 4WD chassis)

Perhaps the best, to avoid all confusion is list them in both manners?

Thus like this

1960 Novi (Kurtis 500F)
1964 Novi-Ferguson P104

And if you rank them for chassis then you get

1960 Kurtis 500F- Novi
1964 Ferguson P104 - Novi

Ranking them by chassis offers the opportunity to rank the car with all other Ferguson chassis like the P99 F1 car too

So whatever an Indycar enthusiast uses as what he believes to be the right name for any Novi powered car, he can find them


I hope this is of help for you?


greetings

Henri



#6009 sixlover

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 09:58

Alansart,
sorry, should have realised that. I guess it must have been late in the evening after all!

Cheers,
Martin



#6010 sixlover

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:28

yasmin, PM sent, thanks.
Martin

Scott Ferrier has now settled in Melbourne Australia and doing great work down here.



#6011 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 21:04

This is turning into Illustrators Reunited! Great - I wonder if any romance will result from this reminiscing and name-dropping. Probably not...

#6012 sixlover

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:49

Astonishing how a chance comment can be taken up and bear fruit, Tony.
I've now made contact with my old mate, who is indeed doing well. He appears to have remained unchanged despite his new elevated position.
Thanks "yasmin".

Martin

This is turning into Illustrators Reunited! Great - I wonder if any romance will result from this reminiscing and name-dropping. Probably not...



#6013 Duc-Man

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 15:24

Gents I'm really sorry to inform you that the cutaway of the Chevy V8 engine on page 21 passed away.
Is anybody able to make it available again?

In return: here is a webfind.
David Kimbles Chevy LS7 engine
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Edited by Duc-Man, 09 September 2010 - 15:31.


#6014 sixlover

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 15:41

I'm sure I'm being dim, but could someone explain to a Limey what the valve depressions in the piston crowns are all about?
It looks like a choice of inlet and exhaust, but not both, OR, the pistons are shallow conical concaves.

Martin

#6015 CVA

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 16:09

This day a few cutaway of Glas car
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#6016 Duc-Man

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 16:18

I'm sure I'm being dim, but could someone explain to a Limey what the valve depressions in the piston crowns are all about?
It looks like a choice of inlet and exhaust, but not both, OR, the pistons are shallow conical concaves.

Martin


I didn't see it when I found the drawing.
I would say it is a attempt to make the assembly of the engine more idiotproof.
The valve shafts and the cylinder ar not in one line which is the reason why there are valve depressions in the piston.
With the way it is done here it is impossible to mount the piston the wrong way. You turn it 180° in the cylinder and it is still the same.

#6017 CVA

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 16:22

and 3 nsu cutaway by Schlenzig
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#6018 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 16:38

I'm sure I'm being dim, but could someone explain to a Limey what the valve depressions in the piston crowns are all about?
It looks like a choice of inlet and exhaust, but not both, OR, the pistons are shallow conical concaves.

Martin

Compression ratio has been maximised, so the valve-piston clearance is actually at the absolute minimum.
Without the cutouts, there could be a risk of valve-piston contact if the engine is over-revved as in a missed gearshift.
The fact that there are four cutouts (actually we might call them let-ins), is to allow use of the same piston, in
both banks of the vee, rather than handing them.

Edited by macoran, 09 September 2010 - 16:48.


#6019 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 16:52

I didn't see it when I found the drawing.
I would say it is a attempt to make the assembly of the engine more idiotproof.
The valve shafts and the cylinder ar not in one line which is the reason why there are valve depressions in the piston.
With the way it is done here it is impossible to mount the piston the wrong way. You turn it 180° in the cylinder and it is still the same.



Compression ratio has been maximised, so the valve-piston clearance is actually at the absolute minimum.
Without the cutouts, there could be a risk of valve-piston contact if the engine is over-revved as in a missed gearshift.


Very odd. I've spent several minutes looking at it, and I think Duc-Man's line is probably the one. I know what you are saying, Marc, but why have Inlet opposite Exhust and Exhaust opposite Inlet? - and it's only two valves per cylinder! However, if you do put the pistons in at /180 degrees, that little circular depression is not matched - we may need help from the Technical thread, certainly someone who knows their LS7s from their elbows.

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#6020 sixlover

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 18:52

That's what mystified me, Tony, the difference between inlet and exhaust. Obviously there's a misalignment (by design, I mean) which needs the slightly angled depressions, but it seems an unfamiliar method to me.
Probably being dim, as I said!

Martin

Very odd. I've spent several minutes looking at it, and I think Duc-Man's line is probably the one. I know what you are saying, Marc, but why have Inlet opposite Exhust and Exhaust opposite Inlet? - and it's only two valves per cylinder! However, if you do put the pistons in at /180 degrees, that little circular depression is not matched - we may need help from the Technical thread, certainly someone who knows their LS7s from their elbows.



#6021 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 19:01

That's what mystified me, Tony, the difference between inlet and exhaust.

Martin

You mean the size difference? nothing mystifying about that. There are loads of engines around where the inlet is larger than the exhaust.
It's called allowing an engine to breathe. The exhaust stroke after all is under pressure from the upward moving piston. The inlet is trying to
suck in as much air as it can under 1 ato. Quite logical to make the inlet as large as possible



#6022 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 19:24

I know what you are saying, Marc, but why have Inlet opposite Exhust and Exhaust opposite Inlet? - and it's only two valves per cylinder! However, if you do put the pistons in at /180 degrees,

Single camshaft with 15mm ( 0.591 ") lift on both inlet and exhaust cam lobes, and non handed cylinder heads I would guess.


#6023 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 19:25

You mean the size difference? nothing mystifying about that. There are loads of engines around where the inlet is larger than the exhaust.
It's called allowing an engine to breathe. The exhaust stroke after all is under pressure from the upward moving piston. The inlet is trying to
suck in as much air as it can under 1 ato. Quite logical to make the inlet as large as possible

Yes, but there are only two valves, and four valve pockets, and there is an exhaust and an inlet pocket on each side of ther piston...

#6024 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 19:55

two valves, and four valve pockets

yes rotate the piston 180*, and you'll need the other valve cutouts.

Shit! I forgot to mention the gudgeon pins are offset !!!

#6025 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:06

yes rotate the piston 180*, and you'll need the other valve cutouts.

Shit! I forgot to mention the gudgeon pins are offset !!!

I don't know if they are or not, but it still doesn't explain to me why the valve pockets are that shape and layout! Just have to wait and see..

#6026 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:16

but it still doesn't explain to me why the valve pockets are that shape and layout!

If the gudgeon pins are offset, and the heads are not handed, they'd have to be!

#6027 ovfi

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:20

I don't know if they are or not, but it still doesn't explain to me why the valve pockets are that shape and layout! Just have to wait and see..


It's a simple case of cost... forged pistons patterns are expensive, so they made only one pattern for both cylinder banks to maintain the gudgeon pin offsets in the same rotation direction.

#6028 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:28

It's a simple case of cost... forged pistons patterns are expensive, so they made only one pattern for both cylinder banks to maintain the gudgeon pin offsets in the same rotation direction.

We have the answer! Thanks ovfi.

#6029 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:33

It's a simple case of cost... forged pistons patterns are expensive, so they made only one pattern for both cylinder banks to maintain the gudgeon pin offsets in the same rotation direction.

My info says the pistons are cast !

#6030 ovfi

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:40

My info says the pistons are cast !


Marc... casting patterns aren't so expensive as forging, so maybe they made only one pattern for laziness, if not for cost...

#6031 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:41

Marc... casting patterns aren't so expensive as forging, so maybe they made only one pattern for laziness, if not for cost...

Yes,...which means ? one casting costs what ?
Ten forging stamps costs doodles more.
These guys are going for performance, so they cast the damn things.forging is for horseshoes!

Edited by macoran, 09 September 2010 - 20:43.


#6032 ovfi

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:43

Yes,...which means ?


To make only one pattern is half the work and half the cost, and doesn't affect performance.

Edited by ovfi, 09 September 2010 - 20:45.


#6033 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:44

To make only one pattern is half the work and half the cost.

Wow
No wonder the world is going to hell, quality doesn't count any more

Edited by macoran, 09 September 2010 - 20:45.


#6034 ovfi

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 20:51

Wow
No wonder the world is going to hell, quality doesn't count any more


Marc, I'm only trying to explain what they did, not what they should have done.

#6035 macoran

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 21:08

Marc, I'm only trying to explain what they did, not what they should have done.

I know only too well.
Yonkers (for want of a better word now) of words ago, "die cast" was discussed here, and I think I managed
to get it across as probably the most expensive way of forming metal.




I am probably mistaken.

#6036 ibsenop

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 23:32

Shelby Cobra 427 SC by David Kimble, from the "Motor Trend's 1991 David Kimble Cutaway Calendar"

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TNF Cutaway Index - updated - page 150 - post 5998 => part A - post 5999 => part B

Edited by ibsenop, 09 September 2010 - 23:42.


#6037 sixlover

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:23

That's what i meant, macoran, but didn't put it across well.
However, if they're used for non-handed heads that makes sense. I like non-handed heads as a modelmaker!

Having ported and rebuilt umpteen engines in my "yoof," I'm well aware of bigger inlets!

Thanks,
Martin

Yes, but there are only two valves, and four valve pockets, and there is an exhaust and an inlet pocket on each side of ther piston...



#6038 sixlover

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:32

Question for the illustrators still working on here...
I was looking for illustrating supplies last night on the net and not holding my breath considering all the doom and gloom being spouted.
Imagine my surprise when I found endless suppliers and supplies still being made and marketed of all the stuff I used to take for granted years ago, but had assumed had disappeared.
About the only sad loss is CS2 and CS10 board which was being flogged by Frisk who apparently went belly up back in around 2006.
So I looked up Schoellershammer and it's there! £70 for ten boards. And good old Lawrence Matthews are still flogging Daler board, now from Southend instead of Brentwood.

So, the question has to be...If it's all being done by the dreaded pootah now, who's buying and using all this stuff! Enough to warrant continued manufacture (though none of it's cheap)

The price being asked for CS10 remainders is MAD! One guy wants £45 for ONE SHEET 20 years old on ebay!!

I'd be interested in your views.

Cheers,
Martin

Edited by sixlover, 10 September 2010 - 08:34.


#6039 alansart

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 09:44

Question for the illustrators still working on here...
I was looking for illustrating supplies last night on the net and not holding my breath considering all the doom and gloom being spouted.
Imagine my surprise when I found endless suppliers and supplies still being made and marketed of all the stuff I used to take for granted years ago, but had assumed had disappeared.
About the only sad loss is CS2 and CS10 board which was being flogged by Frisk who apparently went belly up back in around 2006.
So I looked up Schoellershammer and it's there! £70 for ten boards. And good old Lawrence Matthews are still flogging Daler board, now from Southend instead of Brentwood.

So, the question has to be...If it's all being done by the dreaded pootah now, who's buying and using all this stuff! Enough to warrant continued manufacture (though none of it's cheap)

The price being asked for CS10 remainders is MAD! One guy wants £45 for ONE SHEET 20 years old on ebay!!

I'd be interested in your views.

Cheers,
Martin



Good to see Schoellershammer is still around. We used that in Wolfsburg and it was available in huge sheets. I didn't think it was as good as CS10 but still pretty good. I'm not sure what line board would be used for these days, but I can see a use for something similar to CS2 as there are a lot of budding artists using watercolour etc.

I've not really used watercolour boards that much on the few things I've done over the last few years as I've found heavyweight watercolour paper easier to get hold of.

I'd imagine 20 year old sheet of CS10 is a bit faded by now!



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#6040 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 12:50

One guy wants £45 for ONE SHEET 20 years old on ebay!!


Must have an illustration on it...

#6041 alansart

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 13:16

Must have an illustration on it...


Polar Bear in the snow?

#6042 marlondylan

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 16:16

Polar Bear in the snow?

Alfa Romeo Freccia d'Oro from Fusi's Alfa Romeo bible.Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by marlondylan, 10 September 2010 - 16:18.


#6043 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 16:29

I think that is a first - a full-size cutaway! It certainly has impact, but when I look at the front I can't remember what the back looks like!

#6044 TWest

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 16:52

I think that is a first - a full-size cutaway! It certainly has impact, but when I look at the front I can't remember what the back looks like!


Yeah, and I got crap for loading my "small" files on here ...
OK, what year is this car, and who was the artist. Inquiring minds have to know.
Thanks for an unusual piece for the group. Keep them coming, but you might want to look into Imageshack, as it makes this stuff retrievable, but doesn't load up the incoming board.
Thanks again.
Tom West

#6045 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 16:56

Yeah, and I got crap for loading my "small" files on here ...

It makes yours look like a stamp collection, Tom...

#6046 MEI

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 19:01

Shelby Cobra 427 SC by David Kimble, from the "Motor Trend's 1991 David Kimble Cutaway Calendar"

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Gentlemen, advice please.

For my own collection, I am in the process of completely removing the black background - which to my mind makes this splendid cutaway even more striking. Is it legitimate to post the result on the forum, or should the background be regarded as a fundamental part of David Kimble's interpretation and therefore not to be changed? Malcolm

Edited by MEI, 10 September 2010 - 21:12.


#6047 marlondylan

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 21:37

Yeah, and I got crap for loading my "small" files on here ...
OK, what year is this car, and who was the artist. Inquiring minds have to know.
Thanks for an unusual piece for the group. Keep them coming, but you might want to look into Imageshack, as it makes this stuff retrievable, but doesn't load up the incoming board.
Thanks again.
Tom West


Sorry for the unintentional loading of this large version in this place. The 5-seater Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 Freccia d'Oro was built from 1947 through 1952. The cutaway drawing by Cavarra was first published in the carmagazine Auto Italiana of 15 February 1950 and shows the first production version that was produced from 1947-1950.
Boudewijn

Edited by marlondylan, 10 September 2010 - 21:38.


#6048 marlondylan

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 22:17

This is the 166 Inter Touring Coupe #005S by Bruno Betti.
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Edited by marlondylan, 10 September 2010 - 22:18.


#6049 macoran

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 22:33

by Bruno Betti.
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Are you sure Boudewijn ?

#6050 TWest

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 00:38

Sorry for the unintentional loading of this large version in this place. The 5-seater Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 Freccia d'Oro was built from 1947 through 1952. The cutaway drawing by Cavarra was first published in the carmagazine Auto Italiana of 15 February 1950 and shows the first production version that was produced from 1947-1950.
Boudewijn


I guess that did come off a little heavy-handed as a comment. I just found it funny that I had taken some crap for putting up my downsized files (2000 pixel length), then seeing some huge image like this. No big deal, but you should take a look at lmageshack or something, which lets you store things and makes for an easy thumbnail here. You can put up the biggest files that you have, if that is what you wish to do, and it doesn't bog down uploading the Bulletin Board. Glad to see this unusual material in detail, so please don't stop with the interesting material.
Thanks.
Tom West