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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#601 Tony Matthews

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 23:53

Hello, Johnny, Wow, you've still got them - and with Rick Mears' scribble on them too! Those Cibachromes do last so well. I met Rick a couple of times, once in Reading and again at Brands Hatch, very nice, unassuming guy.

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#602 Tony Matthews

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:41

Posted Image

Here's the missing link, the PC18. The first time I cut-away the nearside wheels, I'd been wondering why I was slightly unhappy with the way the tyres were cut to show the hub/brake/suspension and realized I was doing it the same way as a line illustration but without ghosting, so added the wheel detail and sectioned the tyre.

#603 macoran

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 19:57

IIRC Tony didn't you do a Galmer ?
I have been looking through my files, was it 92 or 93. or I am I way wrong ?

#604 Tony Matthews

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 20:27

Posted Image

Here we are Marc, 1992. If a smaller outfit produced an Indy 500 winner in recent times I'll be surprised - and I frequently am - and I was really pleased for Alan Mertens and his team in Biscester when they pulled it off.

#605 macoran

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 21:36

Bingo Tony!!
IIRC the Galmer chaps only made it through one year....and how !!
Thanks for posting............


Now Anders, I have been studying your fabulous 1957 Ikantiki and am going to take you to task on a few points..*tss listen to who is talking....."
I still haven't even started my first cutaway......
I do have one planned....
I won"t say what or which....
It will be a BB first....there are so few photos of it that even if I bugger it I won't fall on my face.....
but it may take me a year or two...three to do.

#606 Bonde

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 22:41

Connew?

#607 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 22:44

Oh, yes please!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

#608 IrishMariner

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 07:45

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Here we are Marc, 1992. If a smaller outfit produced an Indy 500 winner in recent times I'll be surprised - and I frequently am - and I was really pleased for Alan Mertens and his team in Biscester when they pulled it off.


**Cough** Galmer Working drawing? *cough*

The Valvoline cars were always my favourite. Speaking of which, Tony, you drew Valvoline cutaways of the Galmer, the Lola and the Reynard in fairly quick succession. In doing the 3 seperate chassis, what was your impressions of the 3 manufacturer's designs?
Also, was there a difference in how each of the 3 manufacturers treated you?

I ask because I remember reading the Flight Int'l Cutaway thingy and a couple of the artists had particularly fond memories of different projects because of the the guys they worked with/around.

Oh, and if this prompts you to post more on-the-job photos then that's fine.

#609 Mistron

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 14:09

I'm looking for a cutaway drawing of and ideally body sections through either a Porsche 910 or 908K

anyone got any suggestions?

#610 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 13:27

Originally posted by IrishMariner
... a couple of the artists had particularly fond memories of different projects because of the the guys they worked with/around.


Hi IM, Galmer was a one-off really, as they only, to my knowledge, built the one design, but I paid many visits to Penske Cars, plus a couple of trips to the raceshop in Reading PA., and got to know most of the personel, and one year was invited to the Penske Christmas bash in Bournemouth - an honour. March was probably the outfit that I visited second most, followed by Lola and then Reynard.

One thing that can be a great help is the occasional movement of staff from one constructor to another, as, assuming they haven't had a completely negative experience, they can act as an envoy of sorts, just confirming that yes, you can be trusted and no, you don't get in the way. I met Alan Mertens when I did the March 83C, a speculative job as I was trying to increase my exposure in the Indy market, and it was he who prompted the commission of the Galmer, and I met Paul Morgan at Cosworth, which obviously helped when he and Mario Ilien set up Ilmor Engineering. The fact that Roger Penske was involved was not exactly a hindrence, either, so you see, it's not what you know, it's who knows you!

Reynard were a little suspiscious initially and I was told in no uncertain language that if anything deemed sensitive escaped via my work I would never be allowed back. Fair enough, if a little agressive! However, once my working practice was explained - I processed my own film and made my own prints, I worked alone, the working drawing could be checked by the design staff and the final artwork was available for scrutiny - they relaxed a little. The second year, no problem.

It is good to be able to walk into a restricted area, be greeted by people you've met previously and to know who to ask what, where to put your camera bag, how to gain access to high vantage points and where the coffee machine is!

As to differences in design or manufacture, I think Penske looked the neatest, closest to F1, but they had the luxury of building a few chassis for their own use, whereas the others had to turn out 30 - 40 or more complete cars - as I was told by one engineer when I commented on what seemed to me to be a slightly massive design philosophy - the service and maintenance of which was out of their hands.

What I found fascinating was that there was an ebb and flow of superiority from make to make over the seasons, and while I was always a Penske fan the most important thing, to me, was that for many years it provided the best racing series in the World.

As for the Galmer working drawing, as usual size is a problem but I will try to get a small scannable print.

#611 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 13:43

For those who haven't seen it yet visit marchives.com to see the fabulous TM cutaway of the
March 711-Alfa Romeo

#612 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 13:44

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


As for the Galmer working drawing, as usual size is a problem but I will try to get a small scannable print.


Bits and pieces will do me fine Tony, I need all the study material I can lay my hands on. :D

#613 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 14:15

Posted Image

Lola T93-00. I have to admit that I can't remember whether 01 denotes Road Course/Short Oval, or Super Speedway! So this may be T93-01. Ho hum.

#614 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 14:19

Posted Image

Which makes this the...T93-01 then! Thanks Marc

#615 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 14:22

01 according to the article published in RACECAR MAGAZINE Vol 3 Nr 2

#616 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 14:30

No, Tony, maybe an inclarity on my part, that is 01...so they say


And I just love the detailing differences between the two. Not just the wings which are obvious,....

but....leaving away the brake cooling scoops
........ the carbon-carbon discs versus the ventilated ones on -00

#617 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 14:49

Posted Image

Well it's no good saying that it's -00 and not saying which one you are refering to Marc!;) Anyway, we will sort it. In the mean time...

#618 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 15:15

Originally posted by macoran
And I just love the detailing differences between the two. Not just the wings which are obvious,....


I'm delighted that you noticed the smaller differences Marc. I started to offer the two versions as a way of 'adding value' to my quotations, it meant the client had two illustrations for the price of one, you didn't have fans sitting in the bleachers watching one type of car on track, looking at a very different car in the race program, and I had a challenge as to how to produce the two versions as simply but as accurately as possible.

Apart from the obvious difference in wings it also involved - as you noticed - brake ducts/back plates and disc material and form but sometimes screens, mirrors, radiator exhaust ducting and wheels too.

#619 IrishMariner

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 17:14

I could look at this stuff all day! Brilliant as always.

Thanks for all the effort in scanning & posting these, Tony.

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#620 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 19:10

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Well it's no good saying that it's -00 and not saying which one you are refering to Marc!;) Anyway, we will sort it. In the mean time...


Lola T93-00 is the one with the larger surface wings
Lola T93-01 is the slim wing SuperSpeedway version

#621 macoran

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 19:33

Originally posted by Mistron
I'm looking for a cutaway drawing of and ideally body sections through either a Porsche 910 or 908K

anyone got any suggestions?


I have a cutaway of a 90...I believe a 90(8).... longtail version I could mail you.
Mind you it is a scan of a cutaway spread over two pages, with a bit in the centre-divide missing,
and I haven't started redrawing the missing bits.

#622 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 20:56

Posted Image

That's just about what is practical to scan from the full-size drawing, and most of the construction work was done in the front of the tub anyway!

#623 Bonde

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 23:16

As ever: Thanks for your absolutely brilliant contributions, Tony!

The Galmer and the Lola(s) are depicted from a somewhat uncommonly low and forward vantage point - was this in order to conceal something, wasn't it possible to get up high or was it simply for the sake of a nice change? It certainly enables a very detailed study of those wonderfully sculptured late 1980s/early 1990s integrally machined bulkheads in the front portion of the tubs. I'm glad that you got so much Indycar work in that period - not only did it allow you to continue to practise your skills to the full, I also consider the US Indy/USAC/CART cars up to and including the early 1990s to be some of the nicest and meanest looking single seaters ever...

For Marc's appetite for cutaways from Never Ever Land, here's a (rather poor) scan of a piece of unfinished 1988 speculation...

Posted Image

#624 Tony Matthews

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:38

Hi Anders - the change in viewpoint was just a whim, really, I wanted a change, and Valvoline seemed happy with the finished result. The tub, and particularly the area from the front rearwards to the instrument panel bulkhead was the most interesting part of the car, by this time the rear end was a bit standard, except with the Penskes, as Ilmor seemed to produce new engines quite frequently and they often looked quite different one from another. I agree completely with your comment about the cars, I really liked them.

I liked the machined bulkheads, so much nicer than the honeycomb-cored carbon fibre ones, though the earlier aluminium sandwich ones were OK, at least there was the opportunity to get some reflections and sparkle into the tub!

Your unfinished cutaway looks very interesting - I'm not sure how I would have got on if I'd had to design them as well! I'm impressed by the way your very loose sketch tightens up with the addition of colour - what you could achieve with a set of ellipse guides I can't imagine...

#625 aaron

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 09:49

Tony, great to see you involved, in fact the centre piece, of this thread. Like many others I would like a book of your work on my shelf to join motoring art books by Turner watts et al. You mention the pitfalls of such an undertaking and selling individual prints also has its down side, even though you would be selling directly to enthusiasts like me who simply admire your work. DCN has about 213 books to his name (212 reside on my shelves) and must surely be able to give useful advice and assistance. Perhaps something good will come of this thread in that direction.

Many readers must be wondering what a commission of their favourite car costs. Is there a list of all of your works or would even that be a book in itself? Anyway I am enjoying your posts regardless. I have an A3 scanner. Perhaps you could send me the originals and I can post them for you in high resolution, at no charge of course. Just joking. A1

#626 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:55

Originally posted by aaron
I have an A3 scanner. Perhaps you could send me the originals and I can post them for you in high resolution, at no charge of course. Just joking. A1


Thanks aaron, glad you like what I've posted, though I hope I'm not the 'centre piece' of the thread. I still have an interest in illustration, but only as an an observer, and if I can answer questions about my technique I'm happy to do so. Tom Johnson once said that he was surprised that I was willing to tell him so much about how I worked, as other illustrators were secretive - and certainly I came up against this attitude when I was struggling with my first large airbrush painting - but I said that a) I was not necessarily telling him everything and b) he would still have to do it! As it happens he is happier using his own technique, and to a much higher standard than I ever could.

You'll need an A1 scanner, by the way! I've had a few working drawings reduced to A4, they scan best if they are Zerox or similar prints, if I have A4 digital scans done from A3 reductions the quality suffers enormously when I re-scan them for posting - a sort of moire-pattern problem I think.

As I have said before, I have only once tried to market a print, and to a 'captive' audience, i.e. the staff of the Team that produced the car in question, however, despite expectations from some personnel, I lost money. Others who have tried have not had much success. I know that there is a small, select group of people, gentlemen and scholars all, who appreciate my work, but that is not a sufficient market to warrent the risk - I cannot afford to lose money - and it is most unlikely that a publisher would take a gamble. I hope this doesn't sound bitter, I have no regrets!;)

#627 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:20

Posted Image

A bit bigger than A4, so not a full scan. The elegant PC17 - the extra complication of the tub, mainly, as far as I know, because of the necessity of coping with high-speed impacts with unyielding concrete walls, made the construction work much more interesting. Plain carbon tubes, uncluttered by bulkheads, may be the engineering pinnacle, but they're not much fun to illustrate!

#628 bradbury west

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:54

O/T a bit; Neil Corner with the v12 3 litre Tasman Dino cutaway-ed by Tony, at the Christies Silverstone meeting in '92. Brooks demonstrated it in later years at the Coys event 95ish
Posted Image
Roger Lund

#629 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:03

Hi Roger, nice photo. This is also the car that Nigel Corner crashed so spectacularly at Goodwood. I have never been so sure that I had witnessed a fatality - I saw it from some distance behind the tail of the grid, outside the track, mostly from the giant TV screen - and it was a huge relief to get some good news later in the day.

#630 Stephen Miller

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 16:31

I am wondering if anyone ever produced a cutaway of the Trojan t101 F5000?

Stephen

#631 Tony Matthews

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 17:11

Originally posted by Stephen Miller
I am wondering if anyone ever produced a cutaway of the Trojan t101 F5000?


I did the T102 in October 1973 for Motoring News.

#632 Stephen Miller

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 17:54

Thanks Tony, not sure if I have that issue. I am trying to locate some info on the monocoque details.

cheers

Stephen

#633 macoran

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 22:41

Originally posted by macoran
Now Anders, I have been studying your fabulous 1957 Ikantiki and am going to take you to task on a few points..*tss listen to who is talking....."
I still haven't even started my first cutaway......
I do have one planned....
I won"t say what or which....
It will be a BB first....there are so few photos of it that even if I bugger it I won't fall on my face.....
but it may take me a year or two...three to do.



Well Anders, here is what I have been wondering about, I said I was going to
take you to task,….duh..it’s me again … and could have done by a PM. But, I think
your answers will be interesting enough for other posters to enjoy as well.
Did you have a sort of dream or “ingiving”..(for want of a better English word)..
when you started the IKANTIKI cutaway… what inspired you to undertake such
a task, where other lads your age would have been happy with a few scribbles.
In Holland we call it an “ingeving”.
Did you make all kinds of preliminary sketches, and then do a full layout which
you detailed as you went along ?
Really amazing that you already had such in depth technical knowledge and insight to
produce the features which highlight IKANTIKI as a state of the art racer from Matlos.
Were there many other race car designers on the island ?
How many tracks were there ?... and was there a National Championship ?
I presume as well that a certain Matleese driver named Bonde… Anders Bonde always
raced with number ..7 ?
How did team IKANTIKI travel to the Continental races in that 1957 Championship year ?
Did team IKANTIKI have a transporter ? I am sure your fellow countryman Bjorn Kjer would
like to see what it looked like for his transporter thread

As for some of the design features, I recognise a form of de Dion rear suspension with
a high mounted de Dion link. Does it have a central fulcrum or is the double jointed
connexion straight below the 5 of the *1957* one of two carrying it ? You have also
managed to design a lot of stiffness into the rear suspension to run it without radius rods.
I don’t think your modern day Aquila even manages that ?
As a quick sideline….did you ever consider naming your modern day race designs IKANTIKI ?

Was the engine for the IKANTIKI a bespoke unit ? The extension to the right side of the
cambox seems to house a drive to an aggregated distributor/coil unit. It also seems that
the oil pump drive has been taken off the front of the right hand camshaft ?
Am I mistaken to think that the IKANTIKI engine has its timing distribution drive (by chain ?)
on the rear of the engine ?
I see a “pannier” tank strapped to the right side of the chassis, was this for the longer
distance races ?, or was the tail tank too small anyway because of the transmission ?
Your Matleese engineering background (I presume you are a graduate of M.I.T ? ...Matlos
Institute of Technology? ) also seems to have helped you overcome the problem which
“threw” other designer gurus of the day, as you have managed a very low slung prop shaft
to the rear mounted gearbox. And…….do I see a form of disc brake on the end of the gearbox ?
Is this cutaway of the IKANTIKI of the original or modified car ? It looks like the wing mirror
bracing has been stiffened quite a bit due to too much vibration….possibly after the
Matleese GP….one of the toughest races on the 1957 calender.

Well, once again I applaud your great teenage masterpiece, and I even dare say I find it better
(pro rata) than your 1981 Gr5 Comprex Escort.
I have also noted some of your other interests…….I’ll toast you with a shot of Auchantoshan now.

as to any cutaway I try doing having anything to do with a Connew ?? when I wrote BB I meant
Bulletin Board not Barry Boor.

#634 macoran

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 23:34

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Posted Image

A bit bigger than A4, so not a full scan. The elegant PC17 - the extra complication of the tub, mainly, as far as I know, because of the necessity of coping with high-speed impacts with unyielding concrete walls, made the construction work much more interesting. Plain carbon tubes, uncluttered by bulkheads, may be the engineering pinnacle, but they're not much fun to illustrate!


Lovely stuff Tony....this really gives me the feeling to get going, the clutter and the scribbles of a real working drawing helps get the itch to start.

#635 macoran

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 23:35

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


I did the T102 in October 1973 for Motoring News.


hmmm, did you now ?

#636 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 00:48

Well, Marc, if you are implying that I didn't you will have me worried! I can't find the original artwork but my LAT job book has a job number, 33985, Trojan T102, started with a trip to the factory 12 Oct 1973, drawing finished 21 N0v 1973, 185 hours, mixed in with some general illustrating work for various Tee & Whiten companies! I'm only telling you this because I can, with my new-found job book!

First time I met Patrick Head, in the Trojan drawing office, little did I know then how many of his designs I would come to draw...

#637 Cirrus

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:09

.

Thanks Tony, not sure if I have that issue. I am trying to locate some info on the monocoque details



The T102 was quite different to the T101. A cutaway of the McLaren M21 would probably be of more use for tub details - I vaguely recall TM doing one for Motoring News.

#638 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:58

Originally posted by Cirrus
.

The T102 was quite different to the T101. A cutaway of the McLaren M21 would probably be of more use for tub details - I vaguely recall TM doing one for Motoring News.


I don't remember the 101, the 102 was very angular, interesting in a Ron Tauranac sort of way, but I only did the McLaren M19 for MN, not the 21. I then did a VERY simple drawing of the M23, a more detailed drawing of the M26 and that's all, no more McLarens, although I tried.

#639 fines

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:45

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
no more McLarens, although I tried.

:(

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#640 Stephen Miller

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 15:53

Originally posted by Cirrus
.

The T102 was quite different to the T101. A cutaway of the McLaren M21 would probably be of more use for tub details - I vaguely recall TM doing one for Motoring News.



Yes, thanks for this reminder. I now recall having heard of the similarities between the T101 and the M21. There is some reference on the net, on both cars, however I am interested in primarily the front lower suspension connection area, monocoque internals and the area behind the rear seat, and engine mounting. I have not found any details on these areas as of yet.

Will have to keep looking!

Stephen

#641 Bonde

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 16:53

Marc,

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! :eek:

I'll try to respond to your cross-examination when I find a vacant moment over the weekend - gotta attend some TV-filming work at the Aquila premises down south tomorrow, so it'll have to wait until Sunday...

(in the interim I can begin to dream up my defence...)

#642 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 17:51

Marc, I think ingiving is similar to inkling in English.

#643 macoran

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 20:27

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Well, Marc, if you are implying that I didn't you will have me worried! I can't find the original artwork but my LAT job book has a job number, 33985, Trojan T102, started with a trip to the factory 12 Oct 1973, drawing finished 21 N0v 1973, 185 hours, mixed in with some general illustrating work for various Tee & Whiten companies! I'm only telling you this because I can, with my new-found job book!

First time I met Patrick Head, in the Trojan drawing office, little did I know then how many of his designs I would come to draw...


No implications at all, just pathetic little me trying to scrounge another scan .
Job number 33985 ? so many drawings ? wow !!! what a book that would make:
Encyclopedia Matthewica !!

#644 macoran

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 20:30

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
but I only did the McLaren M19 for MN,


Downloaded a bad scan of it from internet, but I should have a Sports Car Graphic centrespread
up in the attic somewher, just have to dig it down.

#645 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 21:06

Originally posted by macoran
Job number 33985 ? so many drawings ? wow !!! what a book that would make:Encyclopedia Matthewica !!


#33984 - M/Sport 1/4 page ad. Viceroy Carriage Co. #3399(?)6 - Tee & Whiten - Catholic Truth Society - Reverse Block

Marc - you don't want to know...;)

#646 PeterElleray

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 21:37

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


I don't remember the 101, the 102 was very angular, interesting in a Ron Tauranac sort of way, but I only did the McLaren M19 for MN, not the 21. I then did a VERY simple drawing of the M23, a more detailed drawing of the M26 and that's all, no more McLarens, although I tried.


Tony - ive been looking back through my reasonably comprehensive collection of cutaways - the m23 and m26 cutaways that you mention seems to be just about the only one of yours that i dont have or remember seeing - you couldnt give the original publication that one appeared in could you? i have one m26 cutaway, from 'Motor' i believe, circa 1977, signed by 'Graham Cooke', not a name i recognised - any clues ?! i have seensome Piola cutaways of the m23, but nothing more detailed than that. Shame - perhaps then Anders and I could work out how the tub went together!

many thanks in advance,

Peter

#647 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 22:07

Posted Image

M19. Once again, it's a struggle scanning line artwork, best I can do.

#648 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 22:42

Posted Image

Here is the M26 Peter, my first freelance cutaway, as I left MN in Feb 1976. Done in the same way as the MS colour cutaways, poster paint on CS2 line board, before I learnt the error of my ways and started using proper materials. The artwork was given to Marlboro GB and I know it was used once, very small, in at least one publication, but only the Americans used artwork properly, getting some mileage out of the commission.

I may be able to find an M23, as I said, a very simplistic cutaway, but - I do have all the photographs!

#649 aaron

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 05:47

Tony, did you do any of the M16 series? A1

#650 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 06:50

Originally posted by PeterElleray


Tony - ive been looking back through my reasonably comprehensive collection of cutaways - the m23 and m26 cutaways that you mention seems to be just about the only one of yours that i dont have or remember seeing - you couldnt give the original publication that one appeared in could you? i have one m26 cutaway, from 'Motor' i believe, circa 1977, signed by 'Graham Cooke', not a name i recognised - any clues ?! i have seensome Piola cutaways of the m23, but nothing more detailed than that. Shame - perhaps then Anders and I could work out how the tub went together!

many thanks in advance,

Peter


Peter,

my dad oversaw the assembly of the tubs, and I watched them going together several times. What did you want to know?

Thanks, Nigel