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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#7051 helioseism

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 01:54

Fabcar-Porsche. Found on the web, produced with Solidworks.

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#7052 TWest

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 06:04

It is stunning to see the kind of thing that can be produced with Solidworks or Mastercam or one of those, but it still isn't artwork. It looks artificial, and when you compare to some of those things that Tony or Allington, or Inomoto, or Kimball, or Max Millar, or a variety of others have done, there is a personal presence that you can feel in those illustrations, where there is no personality in this sort of thing. Yeah, you can see inside, but it just isn't the same feeling.
I know that I have people ask me how I do the things that I do, and people look at you like you are some kind of a sorcerer when you say that you do it by hand .. they don't seem to believe that anything like this can be done without a computer actually doing the drawing process. Funny, but pretty pathetic when this whole thing isn't a talent but a programming process.
Not quite the same when all you are doing is selecting an image form and an angle from a pull-down menu, is it?
Tom West

#7053 Tony Matthews

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:06

Certainly the digital process has no appeal to me whatsoever, but I believe that using software with illustrating or artisic training produces better digital images. The difference, however, is diminishing with faster computers and better software - but it can't be much fun.

#7054 onelung

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:57

Certainly the digital process has no appeal to me whatsoever, but I believe that using software with illustrating or artisic training produces better digital images. The difference, however, is diminishing with faster computers and better software - but it can't be much fun.


If I can put in me two bob's worth ( Au 20cents) - I see here an analogy in "art" works (so-called "paintings"...) produced by means of having a photographic image projected on a screen/wall and the "painting" produced from that: there's a difficult-to-describe difference: a flatness, an artificial appearance, or lack of vitality, in the works done via the photographic projection, and the so-called "genuine" work of art.

Maybe you guys out there can enlighten me as to the process you go through; as I a guess you must be employing drawings (at the very least) and even photographs as well...?

#7055 Allan Lupton

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 11:21

If I can put in me two bob's worth ( Au 20cents) - I see here an analogy in "art" works (so-called "paintings"...) produced by means of having a photographic image projected on a screen/wall and the "painting" produced from that: there's a difficult-to-describe difference: a flatness, an artificial appearance, or lack of vitality, in the works done via the photographic projection, and the so-called "genuine" work of art.

Mind what you say!
In much earlier times (15th-17th century)the camera obscura was invented, a room [camera] from which light was excluded [obscura] and pinhole in the wall (later a lens in the ceiling) produced an image of the outside world on a wall or a table which the artist could use as the basis for his painting. Plenty of controversy about who did or did not use this technique. Well-known names like Vermeer may have . . .

Of course that's why the thing we use to take photographs is named "camera" although not many are as big as a room! I understand that the Italians call 'em machina photografica which avoids confusion.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 27 November 2010 - 11:23.


#7056 helioseism

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:14

Well, my main interest is in how the cars and engines are constructed, so Solidworks images are OK with me. It does seem that the computer-generated cutaways do not show as much hidden detail as the hand-drawn ones, probably because the engineers creating the Solidworks images do not have the same goals as the cutaway artists. There are also schedule pressures that preclude the engineers "wasting" time on making a cutaway beyond what is needed for the fabrication of the parts. Sadly, I think that we will only get Solidworks-style cutaways for modern race cars in any event.

#7057 TWest

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 20:16

Well, my main interest is in how the cars and engines are constructed, so Solidworks images are OK with me. It does seem that the computer-generated cutaways do not show as much hidden detail as the hand-drawn ones, probably because the engineers creating the Solidworks images do not have the same goals as the cutaway artists. There are also schedule pressures that preclude the engineers "wasting" time on making a cutaway beyond what is needed for the fabrication of the parts. Sadly, I think that we will only get Solidworks-style cutaways for modern race cars in any event.


Helio,
The reason that not many cars can be done that way is that you have to have detail drawings of every piece in the car in order to assemble them and assemble them into a complete car. I have the "assembled" drawings from some of our diecast projects that are pretty cool. In hot rodding or drag racing, for example, the car is not completely drawn, so engines, transmissions, drivetrains, wheels, tires, steering, seating, and many other parts are not actually created as a part drawing, and certainly not on a computer. You just can't get there from here on a practical basis to assemble the parts into the rotatable image. When you are talking about F1 or prototypes, every part is new so a complete 3-d file exists for each component. Note that the tires are always very vague compared to the other components. When you do CAD design on an engine on our, it isn't that big a deal to get the cutaway. There really isn't a lot of extra effort to get the "cutaway" when you have everything else in those files.
Tom West

#7058 ibsenop

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 01:15

Alfa Romeo 182T by Sergio Baratto

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#7059 simplebrother

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 04:16

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Junkers-Jumo aircraft engine - 6 cylinder diesel with 12 pistons and 2 crankshafts - illustration by Lyndon Jones

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#7060 tbolt

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 10:20

When I started looking at cutaway drawings, at about age 6-7 I thought they did this to all the subjects of the drawings.

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This is one of the exhibits at the National Railway Museum, York

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#7061 Tony Matthews

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 11:17

My biggest expence was hacksaw blades.

#7062 Tony Matthews

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 12:54

Maybe you guys out there can enlighten me as to the process you go through; as I a guess you must be employing drawings (at the very least) and even photographs as well...?

With respect, I've written a lot, probably too much, about my modus operandi, from page 5, post #182 on, others (Alan Raine, Andrew Kitson, Toms Johnson and West to name but four) have written about theirs, I can't go through it all again! If it is a smallish item, all you need is the bit - a carburettor for example - and a screwdriver, you don't need photographs or drawings (I assume you mean engineering drawings).

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Using engineering drawings and photographs of bits you end up with something like this, before it is finished in B&W or colour.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 28 November 2010 - 17:21.


#7063 werks prototype

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 14:40

My feeling regarding the debate on art is, that I think we are dealing with two very different things. I have always understood art to be about an idea, whereas illustration, is about a thing. That is the fundamental difference.

And regarding the digital side of things, I do also like a good 3d model, that is, an accurate, sometimes working (simulation) of the geometry of a thing. It definitely brings something new to the table.

I think as long as art, illustration and 3d modelling all remain distinct, that is, do their own distinct job, I'm happy. It is only when they start to attempt to blur the distinctions between each other that I think the old alarm bells start to ring.

That is my 5-pence worth!

Edited by werks prototype, 28 November 2010 - 15:34.


#7064 werks prototype

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 14:43

Alfa Romeo 182T by Sergio Baratto

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Looking forward to seeing more of these Ibsen! :up:

#7065 werks prototype

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:15

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Rolls-Royce Phantom 3. By Max Millar.


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Rolls-Royce 'Royal' Phantom IV Interior details. 1950. By Max Millar. Not a cutaway.


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Rolls-Royce 'Royal' Phantom IV Interior. By Max Millar. Not a cutaway.


#7066 werks prototype

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:15

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The NIMSLO 3D Camera. By Graham White.

#7067 werks prototype

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 15:18

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Bedford six-cylinder commercial. By R.J.Way.

#7068 ibsenop

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 15:39

Toleman TG183 by Sergio Baratto

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Missing a slice at the top bodywork!

#7069 chezqui

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 13:58

From Inside 100 Great Cars as well as issue 43 of The Car magazine
De Tomaso Pantera
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Creditted to Paul Shakespeare.

I wonder why it looks as if the spare hasn't been inflated


It was a space saver wheel :D

Edited by chezqui, 30 November 2010 - 13:58.


#7070 werks prototype

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 17:12

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'An engine to raise water by the force of fire'. Designed and drawn by Thomas Savery in 1699.

#7071 werks prototype

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 17:13

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Audi 50. Artist unknown. Schlenzig?

#7072 werks prototype

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 17:13

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BMW Z3 Engine. 1.9 Litre, 4 cylinder. BMW By Technical Art.


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BMW Z4. BMW Technical Art.

#7073 werks prototype

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 17:14

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Bristol Theseus Turboprop. Artist unknown.

#7074 werks prototype

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 17:17

Toleman TG183 by Sergio Baratto

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Missing a slice at the top bodywork!


Great stuff!

(I reckon someone could paint that missing bit back in, using the edge of the lower piece)

Edited by werks prototype, 30 November 2010 - 17:18.


#7075 tbolt

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 20:18

Looking through an old copy of Aerospace Professional I came across this piece about Frank Munger who died earlier this year.

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#7076 bradbury west

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 20:33

Something different. Autosport May 1 1959. Artist G.Gedo. Copyright recognised.

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Roger Lund




#7077 onelung

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:49

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#7078 Duc-Man

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 15:29

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I wish they would make something like that in digital. Shutter time, aperture and focus and just as much electronic as necessary. What else do you need?
I hate this new rubbish where you get the picture the camera makes instead of the photo you wanna take.

#7079 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 16:45

I wish they would make something like that in digital. Shutter time, aperture and focus and just as much electronic as necessary. What else do you need?
I hate this new rubbish where you get the picture the camera makes instead of the photo you wanna take.

I totally agree! My favourite camera is the Nikon FM/FE, of which I have several (!), if they made one with a digital sensor and nothing else but a choice of RAW, jpeg or both I'd be as happy as Larry. I had great hopes a few years ago for a device that was promised endlessly, but failed to appear - a device that had a sensor where the film gate is, attached to a cassette-sized electronic bit. The idea was that it just slotted into a film body. I believe it was a hoax.

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#7080 Duc-Man

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 17:26

Leica has something that comes close to what I wish for. It's just way too far from what I can afford. :cry:

#7081 ibsenop

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 00:35

Asahi Pentax KX by unknown artist

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Bronica TL by unknown artist

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Leitz Wetzlar by unknown artist

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Mamiya C330 by unknown artist

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#7082 TWest

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:05

Interesting to see the camera stuff. Wish someone had a cutaway of the Canon EOS1D, as I just had the shutter in mine blow up for the second time. Rather frustrating when the shutter leafs start to fall out of the thing. Relatively expensive, too, and not at all entertaining.
Hope all are well, as the tide is running low of late.
Rest can be a good thing.
Thanks to everyone who has been pushing all of this stuff through, Helio, Marc and Ibsen. Everyone has been amazing with all of this stuff.
By the way, there has been a recent rejuvenation of the cutaway in review articles. The one in Rodders Journal on Rex Burnett is detailed, as are most of the Rodders Journal articles. Not sure how many of you get a chance to see this publication, but, if you are into American Hot Rods, this might be the best around. My favorite part is seeing his roughs, that are much more detailed than the finished pieces, in my opinion. The preliminary drawings impress me much more than the finished pieces.
There is also a special Motor Trend edition, currently out at retail, featuring some of the work of David Kimble. Whether you like the specific style, it is still pretty impressive, if a bit overly confusing to really try to interpret. More of the fire for effect but quite a work.
Check them out if you get a chance.
Tom West

#7083 fnqvmuch

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 05:11

Interesting to see the camera stuff. Wish someone had a cutaway of the Canon EOS1D...Hope all are well, as the tide is running low of late....Thanks to everyone who has been pushing all of this stuff through, Helio, Marc and Ibsen.... Rex Burnett ... favorite part ... his roughs, that are much more detailed than the finished pieces, in my opinion. The preliminary drawings impress me much more than the finished pieces.



have to agree, ( with an additional recommendation of the motorcycles ) - brilliant stuff but a strange finish
IMHO Rex Burnett has been neglected here ...
steven
(just wondering what Mr West would do if he was to get a cutaway of his camera ...)

#7084 TWest

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 05:56

have to agree, ( with an additional recommendation of the motorcycles ) - brilliant stuff but a strange finish
IMHO Rex Burnett has been neglected here ...
steven
(just wondering what Mr West would do if he was to get a cutaway of his camera ...)



Steven,
An insightful question you pose there ...
And, it was just curiosity to see what is blowing up on me here. This is not a normal situation for that level of camera, so I was just curious to see what is happening in there. To think that this is spitting those blades out is rather strange for something like this top of the line camera.
But, on a practical level, I will end up taking it in and they will probably throw a new shutter mechanism in.
Like repairing a computer now ... just throw in a new processor or hard drive or whatever and go down the road.
Your comment regarding Rex Burnett is probably correct. I have most of his Hot Rod work scanned for a project that I want to do, but will have to go back and see if I can get permission as his son has now started to work with it ... even doing T-shirts. Those have to be among the best cutaways out there for that purpose, as they are relatively lacking in fine line details compared to many of the other work.
Tom West

#7085 TWest

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 05:57

have to agree, ( with an additional recommendation of the motorcycles ) - brilliant stuff but a strange finish
IMHO Rex Burnett has been neglected here ...
steven
(just wondering what Mr West would do if he was to get a cutaway of his camera ...)



Steven,
An insightful question you pose there ...
And, it was just curiosity to see what is blowing up on me here. This is not a normal situation for that level of camera, so I was just curious to see what is happening in there. To think that this is spitting those blades out is rather strange for something like this top of the line camera.
But, on a practical level, I will end up taking it in and they will probably throw a new shutter mechanism in.
Like repairing a computer now ... just throw in a new processor or hard drive or whatever and go down the road.
Your comment regarding Rex Burnett is probably correct. I have most of his Hot Rod work scanned for a project that I want to do, but will have to go back and see if I can get permission as his son has now started to work with it ... even doing T-shirts. Those have to be among the best cutaways out there for that purpose, as they are relatively lacking in fine line details compared to many of the other work.
Tom West

#7086 Cardenas

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:19

I was deleting pics from my computer when I found those cutaways from the W-154.


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:wave:

#7087 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 14:56

What is with all this camera stuff! Brilliant material it is! :up: Something about delicate optics etc etc, that particularly suits this form of illustration. Looking forward to seeing more of these!

This material has reminded me of something, I recently found out that Clarence LaTourette was prone to (or dependent upon, depends upon the way you want to look at it) using photographs taken by others inorder to construct his work. Which I think makes his achievements even more impressive considering the varied nature of his back-catalogue and the limits/restrictions this must potentially have placed. I have forgotten the name of the photographer whose work he used the most, but I think it was his mate at the magazine he worked for, quite a famous 1950's automotive photographer. Just a bit of trivia there. I have the name written down somewhere. Off on holiday for a few weeks, but shall leave you with the following.

Edited by werks prototype, 03 December 2010 - 15:19.


#7088 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 14:56

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Rolls-Royce RB211 Turbofan. Illustration. Rolls-Royce.

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#7089 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:00

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Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow. By Vic Berris.


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Rolls-Royce. Silver Shadow. Disc brake and suspension details. By John Ferguson.


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Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow engine. By Vic Berris.


#7090 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:08

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The Flying Schoolroom. By Wilf Hardy. (A cutaway-lite, but nevertheless, a nice painting.)


#7091 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:08

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SPAD, French Airforce fighter plane (Double machine gun) from 'L'Illustration', 1918 (litho) By Henri Lumiltot.

#7092 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:08

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V1. By Max Millar.


#7093 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:09

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Villiers 4T two-stroke with dual additional transfer ports and ported pistons. By S.E.Porter.

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1961 250cc Honda four, 16 valves, revs to 14000 rpm. Artist unknown.


#7094 werks prototype

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 15:09

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Triumph Dolomite.

#7095 Tony Matthews

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 16:31

This material has reminded me of something, I recently found out that Clarence LaTourette was prone to (or dependent upon, depends upon the way you want to look at it) using photographs taken by others inorder to construct his work. Which I think makes his achievements even more impressive considering the varied nature of his back-catalogue and the limits/restrictions this must potentially have placed. I have forgotten the name of the photographer whose work he used the most, but I think it was his mate at the magazine he worked for, quite a famous 1950's automotive photographer.



Several of Jim Allington's cutaways were done from photographs taken by David Phipps. I can't say for sure how many, as the relationship started some time before I met him, but I am fairly sure that the Vanwall was one, and that the photographs were taken over a wall, as access had been denied!

#7096 TWest

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 18:06

What is with all this camera stuff! Brilliant material it is! :up: Something about delicate optics etc etc, that particularly suits this form of illustration. Looking forward to seeing more of these!

This material has reminded me of something, I recently found out that Clarence LaTourette was prone to (or dependent upon, depends upon the way you want to look at it) using photographs taken by others inorder to construct his work. Which I think makes his achievements even more impressive considering the varied nature of his back-catalogue and the limits/restrictions this must potentially have placed. I have forgotten the name of the photographer whose work he used the most, but I think it was his mate at the magazine he worked for, quite a famous 1950's automotive photographer. Just a bit of trivia there. I have the name written down somewhere. Off on holiday for a few weeks, but shall leave you with the following.


Werks,
I think that the name you are trying to come up with was Eric Rickman, head photograher for Hot Rod magazine and Petersen Publishing during that time. He was certainly one of the pioneers who helped introduce early drag racing, lakes and Bonneville and various other things to the American public.
It can be a problem doing a drawing from other's photos. I have done it on a few pieces, and nobody will see it the way you have to when doing a cutaway. The ones that I have done like that have come out OK, but it will usually be done when you are contacted to do a piece after the car is assembled, and I am doing one-offs generally, so they aren't inclined to take apart the car for me to draw, although it has happened.
Tom West

#7097 ibsenop

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:37

NSU Prinz II engine and gearbox by Schlenzig

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TNF Cutaway Index - updated - page 170 - post 6776 => part A - post 6777 => part B

Edited by ibsenop, 05 December 2010 - 12:30.


#7098 Mistron

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:05

this thread prompted a request from my son (he's 4).

Google came up with this:
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can anyone offer any better?

he was fascinated by the cutaway train in NRM in York mentioned previously and many of these cutaways, so I feel I must encourage his interest in all things mechanical (wee hands may be very usefull for holding spanners in engine bays!!)

yo-ho-ho!

#7099 Tony Matthews

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:11

The Mistron returns! Yes, get him interested, tiny goffers are very useful, no toolbox is complete without one. Are you sure about the 'Yo-ho-ho'? I think that is followed by 'and a bottle of rum!' - no bad thing, but I think Father Christmas is better known for 'Ho-ho-ho'!

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#7100 Mistron

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:18

you know, you might just have a point there!
:drunk: