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#7851 simplebrother

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 15:25

ferrari 512s Takeshi Hosokawa
Posted Image


Thank you - have seen the drawing before, but did not know who was the illustrator - it is a name I have not previously encountered.
Peter

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#7852 JoeKane

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 15:48

...the 810 model out of 1980. That seems a bit late for the Datsun name, but that is what the manual used for the cover title.
Tom West

I was thinking the change took place throughout the mid 1980s. A quick Google turned up a nice Wiki page on the Datsun name here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun
It confirmed my memory (doesn't always work out that way...). Interestingly the US market was one of the last to completely change over to Nissan branding. The entire article is worth a read. Here's a quote about the name change process.

"Ultimately, the name change campaign lasted for a three year period from 1982 to 1984 (Datsun badged vehicles had been progressively fitted with small "Nissan" and "Datsun by Nissan" badges from the late 1970s onward) until the Nissan name was given prominence in 1983 - although in some export markets vehicles continued to wear both the Datsun and Nissan badges until 1986. The name change had cost Nissan a figure in the region of US$500 million. Operational costs included the changing of signs at 1,100 Datsun dealerships, and amounted to US$30 million. Another US$200 million were spent during the 1982 to 1986 advertising campaigns, where the “Datsun, We Are Driven!” campaign yielded to “The Name is Nissan” campaign. (The latter campaign was used for some years beyond 1985.) Another US$50 million was spent on Datsun advertisements that were paid for but stopped or never used.[8] Five years after the name change program was over, Datsun still remained more familiar than Nissan.[9]"



#7853 Duc-Man

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 17:02

Reading this makes me wonder how much money GM wasted to turn Deawoo into Chevrolet. Plus the couple facelifts they had to make.

#7854 alansart

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 17:08

Reading this makes me wonder how much money GM wasted to turn Deawoo into Chevrolet. Plus the couple facelifts they had to make.


And why did they bother anyway :)

Edited by alansart, 10 February 2011 - 17:08.


#7855 MEI

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 18:18

I was thinking the change took place throughout the mid 1980s. A quick Google turned up a nice Wiki page on the Datsun name here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun
It confirmed my memory (doesn't always work out that way...). Interestingly the US market was one of the last to completely change over to Nissan branding. The entire article is worth a read. Here's a quote about the name change process.

"Ultimately, the name change campaign lasted for a three year period from 1982 to 1984 (Datsun badged vehicles had been progressively fitted with small "Nissan" and "Datsun by Nissan" badges from the late 1970s onward) until the Nissan name was given prominence in 1983 - although in some export markets vehicles continued to wear both the Datsun and Nissan badges until 1986. The name change had cost Nissan a figure in the region of US$500 million. Operational costs included the changing of signs at 1,100 Datsun dealerships, and amounted to US$30 million. Another US$200 million were spent during the 1982 to 1986 advertising campaigns, where the “Datsun, We Are Driven!” campaign yielded to “The Name is Nissan” campaign. (The latter campaign was used for some years beyond 1985.) Another US$50 million was spent on Datsun advertisements that were paid for but stopped or never used.[8] Five years after the name change program was over, Datsun still remained more familiar than Nissan.[9]"

This reminds me of a report (true, I am sure) that a crate of replacement gearboxes once fell out of a cargo aircraft at some great height. Not surprisingly, the crate and its contents disintegrated on the way down, and it was apparently said to be "raining Datsun cogs". Sorry!!

Edited by MEI, 10 February 2011 - 18:22.


#7856 JoeKane

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 18:53

... and it was apparently said to be "raining Datsun cogs". Sorry!!

Owh Macolm,
Good one.
That kind of pun can actually cause physical pain! :rotfl:
Joe

#7857 Allan Lupton

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 19:35

This reminds me of a report (true, I am sure) that a crate of replacement gearboxes once fell out of a cargo aircraft at some great height. Not surprisingly, the crate and its contents disintegrated on the way down, and it was apparently said to be "raining Datsun cogs". Sorry!!

AAAHHH Nostalgia!
Haven't heard that one for about 40 years!

#7858 werks prototype

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 20:25

This reminds me of a report (true, I am sure) that a crate of replacement gearboxes once fell out of a cargo aircraft at some great height. Not surprisingly, the crate and its contents disintegrated on the way down, and it was apparently said to be "raining Datsun cogs". Sorry!!


:)

+ (I'm ashamed to admit that I actually haven't heard that one before)

#7859 JoeKane

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 20:26

Okay here is a little car from the early 1970s. Honda Civic CVCC 5-speed.
I believe this is a Honda marketing piece and I do not know the artist.
I owned one of these new back then...
Posted Image

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#7860 macoran

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 21:28

"raining Datsun cogs".

Language is beautiful !!!

#7861 macoran

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 21:32

I owned one of these new back then...

I had a bronze coloured one, it rot away in no time, must've been the paint !
My pal's blue one ran strong for over 10 years.

#7862 JoeKane

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 22:47

I had a bronze coloured one, it rot away in no time, must've been the paint !
My pal's blue one ran strong for over 10 years.

Mine was white. I remember we drove to California and went into some kind of mall. When we came out we discovered a sea of white Honda Civics in the parking lot. It was the devil to find ours amongst the dozens of them! After that I noticed lots of different antenna toppers on white Civics... and understood why...

#7863 JoeKane

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 23:12

Another running gear cutaway. This one is an electric BMW 1602. Apparently a fleet of these were actually used at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
No artist credit.
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#7864 MEI

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 23:13

AAAHHH Nostalgia!
Haven't heard that one for about 40 years!

Almost as effective as carbon dating!

#7865 werks prototype

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 23:30

Another running gear cutaway. This one is an electric BMW 1602. Apparently a fleet of these were actually used at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
No artist credit.
Posted Image


I wonder who is responsible for these. They are remarkably clean, almost digital? Could be my eyes, and a very crisp air-brushing job though. Any idea of the period in which they were produced?

#7866 JoeKane

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 00:15

I wonder who is responsible for these. They are remarkably clean, almost digital? Could be my eyes, and a very crisp air-brushing job though. Any idea of the period in which they were produced?

Nope sure don't know who or when. It might help if I had some source notes but I don't seem to.
So I'm just not much help there at all.
They are quite nice examples of the artist's craft even though they are only showing limited detail elements.

#7867 TWest

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 01:35

And why did they bother anyway :)



I can remember discussions here regarding the Datsun-Nissan change, and believe they were centered on Datsun being too stereotypic as a Japanese name. Must have been a bunch of research done on that one, but it switched to Nissan. I can remember various other flights of fancy trying to alter well-known names or brands ... like new Coke, a miserable failure to be replaced shortly with the original. I can remember the fight as Revell was going to be changed to Ceji, which nobody even really knew how to pronounce.
I am sure you can come up with many more.
Tom West

#7868 TWest

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 02:03

:)

+ (I'm ashamed to admit that I actually haven't heard that one before)


I will admit that I hadn't either, but am still chortling here over the pun ... we Americans are saps for high-humor, as you probably know.
Tom West

#7869 CVA

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 06:49

Thank you - have seen the drawing before, but did not know who was the illustrator - it is a name I have not previously encountered.
Peter

see page 146 2 mazda by Takeshi Hosokawa

#7870 simplebrother

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 07:17

see page 146 2 mazda by Takeshi Hosokawa


Yes - thanks; after my comment I discovered a couple - I had just forgotten to enter the name of the illustrator in my log.
Peter

#7871 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:12

I will admit that I hadn't either, but am still chortling here over the pun ... we Americans are saps for high-humor, as you probably know.
Tom West


I'm in good company then, Tom. :up:

#7872 TWest

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:18

I'm in good company then, Tom. :up:


Yes, I have a feeling that you are. Cutaways and puns ... works for me.
Tom West

#7873 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:31

Posted Image
A slightly different, update scan of the March 711. As originally posted by Macoran on page 94. Artist, Herbert Müdsam. How I lament, that it is only a B&W image!

#7874 Karabas

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:56

Another running gear cutaway. This one is an electric BMW 1602. Apparently a fleet of these were actually used at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
No artist credit.
Posted Image


A little more about this interesting concept:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Assumes that artist's name - Debusmann?
Posted Image



#7875 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:00

I can remember discussions here regarding the Datsun-Nissan change, and believe they were centered on Datsun being too stereotypic as a Japanese name. Must have been a bunch of research done on that one, but it switched to Nissan. I can remember various other flights of fancy trying to alter well-known names or brands ... like new Coke, a miserable failure to be replaced shortly with the original. I can remember the fight as Revell was going to be changed to Ceji, which nobody even really knew how to pronounce.
I am sure you can come up with many more.Tom West


I'm going hopelessly off-topic now, but, Marathon became Snickers!

Caused quite a furore! :stoned:

#7876 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:04

A little more about this interesting concept:

Assumes that artist's name - Debusmann?
Posted Image


Aha! :up:

Great find Karabas. I remember the 'Debusmann' signature appearing previously when we researched an auction catalogue entry on this very thread. I think it was Marc and Edit: NPP, who finally nailed him!

Edited by werks prototype, 11 February 2011 - 09:07.


#7877 MEI

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:25

I will admit that I hadn't either, but am still chortling here over the pun ... we Americans are saps for high-humor, as you probably know.
Tom West

Glad to have been of service! Malcolm

#7878 NPP

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:26

I remember the 'Debusmann' signature appearing previously when we researched an auction catalogue entry on this very thread. I think it was Marc and Edit: NPP, who finally nailed him!


my only useful contribution to life on the internet so far! So let me just say that I check this thread every day, and immensely enjoy the valuable material posted on here by so many learned and enthusiastic people.


#7879 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:39

my only useful contribution to life on the internet so far! So let me just say that I check this thread every day, and immensely enjoy the valuable material posted on here by so many learned and enthusiastic people.


Yours was one of the most celebrated pieces of detective work, ever seen in cutaway land NPP! :up:

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#7880 MEI

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:48

Posted Image
BRM 150. By Herbert Müdsam.

I don't recall ever seeing a stackpipe BRM with this shortened nosecone. Does anyone have more details of it?

#7881 werks prototype

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:51

I don't recall ever seeing a stackpipe BRM with this shortened nosecone. Does anyone have more details of it?


Monaco GP version? Someone out their will know for sure. :up:


#7882 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 09:59

Yes indeed - it's Graham Hill's #10 car as raced at Monaco 1962.

#7883 MEI

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:08

Yes indeed - it's Graham Hill's #10 car as raced at Monaco 1962.

Yes, of course. Thanks Tim. I should have remembered.
Posted Image
What a fantastic grid line-up of cars and drivers that was! Malcolm

Edited by MEI, 11 February 2011 - 11:12.


#7884 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:29

WOW! Great image, MEI! TYVM for posting. I've just saved it to my HD and swung it over to be my new desktop.

This very event marked my initiation to the world of Grand Prix Formula One racing through the pages of Road & Track magazine, September, 1962. What a great issue! The GP's of Monaco and Zandvoort, iirc, LeMans, feature on the Lotus 25 c/w cutaway of same plus the Lotus 24, full-colour centrespread cut of Jimmy in action in the 25 at Zandy. I was hooked! :)



#7885 JoeKane

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 15:58

Assumes that artist's name - Debusmann?
Posted Image

Bingo! I Believe you are correct Mr. Karabas!
I already had the line art version on file but did not cross reference them. They do appear to be a perfect fit.
Thanks for the fine detective work. :clap:
Joe

#7886 Karabas

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 20:11

Bingo!
Thanks for the fine detective work.
Joe


Gentlemen!
I propose a special prize for the solution of similar puzzle: :D :smoking:
Posted Image

#7887 TWest

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 20:14

I'm going hopelessly off-topic now, but, Marathon became Snickers!

Caused quite a furore! :stoned:


Geez, that is a good one, werks. Would have taken a while to come up with that one ...
Although that one turned out OK for the M&M folks from what I have seen.
Tom West

#7888 tbolt

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:16

A "stealth" pun by Werks, it was a full 24 hours before Topic registered.

#7889 werks prototype

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:19

A "stealth" pun by Werks, it was a full 24 hours before Topic registered.

:) :up:

#7890 werks prototype

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:54

Posted Image
Vanwall. By Herbert Müdsam.

#7891 macoran

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:33

Check out the see thru McLaren MP4-25 on the Russian site !
Where did that come from ???

#7892 werks prototype

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:37

Check out the see thru McLaren MP4-25 on the Russian site !
Where did that come from ???


How do you get to that site Marc? Got it, from the list. :rolleyes:

Edited by werks prototype, 12 February 2011 - 19:38.


#7893 macoran

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:41

How do you get to that site Marc? Got it, from the list. :rolleyes:

Jump to page 190 here and go to our friend Ibsen's fabulous index........he has the link at the bottom of the list
All you have to do is click on it.

edit to add a laugh ! :rotfl:

Edited by macoran, 12 February 2011 - 19:42.


#7894 werks prototype

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 19:51

Jump to page 190 here and go to our friend Ibsen's fabulous index........he has the link at the bottom of the list
All you have to do is click on it.

edit to add a laugh ! :rotfl:


:rotfl: I was startled by the whole thing!

I reckon it is either media from McLaren themselves (because of the floor). Or an amateur/professional render (maybe a computer game asset of some sort.) Reminds me a lot of the launch render of the MP4-26, especially the driver.



#7895 TWest

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 20:21

I have to say that I was a bit bothered by that Russian site, but it has quite an array of reference material there, both in the Cutaways and the photos. Nicely indexed, as well. Considering that we are all posting material here that essentially does the same as theirs, I am not as offended as I would like to be.
The one thing that bothers me is the removal of the signatures on most of the images. Now, if they could just do the smaller files a bit larger ...
Tom West

#7896 werks prototype

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 20:39

I have to say that I was a bit bothered by that Russian site, but it has quite an array of reference material there, both in the Cutaways and the photos. Nicely indexed, as well. Considering that we are all posting material here that essentially does the same as theirs, I am not as offended as I would like to be.
The one thing that bothers me is the removal of the signatures on most of the images. Now, if they could just do the smaller files a bit larger ...
Tom West


:up:

Forensics confirms, that you are right also, about much material being sourced from tnf, as well, Tom.

P.S. Tom, do you have the Haynes Renault 30 (the one with the rear boot extended), in your stack?

Edited by werks prototype, 12 February 2011 - 20:39.


#7897 TWest

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 23:43

:up:

Forensics confirms, that you are right also, about much material being sourced from tnf, as well, Tom.

P.S. Tom, do you have the Haynes Renault 30 (the one with the rear boot extended), in your stack?


Werks,
I have a Renualt 30 drawing of Terry Davey listed, 1980 as the year. I dug through and came up with the Renault 20 and 30, which have a lot of commonality, but the nose, wheels and tires and many details different between the two. I have them on top to be scanned the next time I do this stuff, OK?
Tom West

Out of curiosity, why the Renault 30? You must have had one at some point ... and are you sure you want to admit it here?

#7898 macoran

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 00:15

Out of curiosity, why the Renault 30? You must have had one at some point ... and are you sure you want to admit it here?

:p haha okey Tom do you have anything on the first Honda Accord ?

#7899 werks prototype

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:10

Werks,
I have a Renualt 30 drawing of Terry Davey listed, 1980 as the year. I dug through and came up with the Renault 20 and 30, which have a lot of commonality, but the nose, wheels and tires and many details different between the two. I have them on top to be scanned the next time I do this stuff, OK?
Tom West

Out of curiosity, why the Renault 30? You must have had one at some point ... and are you sure you want to admit it here?


Thanks for checking, Tom. I'm glad I asked now, I should have spoken up earlier.

It is a rather mundane request though. I was sent an article by a friend, from one of those online academic database things. It looks like a Haynes commercial hand-out type thing. Near the bottom you will see a rather shabby looking scan of the Renault 30 cutaway.

http://elibrary.bigc...120498#citation

So, you see, nothing as potentially controversial as actual ownership :stoned: . More, the following up of a lead, coupled with still not actually owning the Haynes 'compilation' cutaway book.







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#7900 TWest

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:30

:p haha okey Tom do you have anything on the first Honda Accord ?



I have covers from a few Honda Accords, I show dates of 1977 and 1986 from Terry Davey ... and some rather more racy Accords from our Mr. Matthews.
Will be sure to get both of them up here with your Renaults.
Tom West