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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#8251 TWest

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:34

There has been a hint of nasal congestion about your post recently, Tom.



Not sure if you have noticed, but I have been trying to breathe to the side of the screen ... seems like everyone I know here has a cold going. Of course, it is winter in SoCal, although it was probably 80 today. I actually had to turn on the AC in the car and scared the hell out of myself because it was putting out hot air (figures, eh?), until I realized that I had hit the recirculate rather than the AC. All is now well and comfy, and I am ready for a preparty and then the big traditional Bakersfield March Meet. Known back many years ago, this was the US Fuel and Gas Championships, and was really an impressive race to attend as my second drag race in California. If you could picture almost 120 Top Fuel Dragsters qualifying, and a 64-car eliminator plus a second 16-car field for Saturday, then a full 32-car eliminator on Sunday with a final runoff between the Saturday and Sunday winner for the overall ... it made quite an impression on me.
But, I digress ... sniff, sniff.
Tom West

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#8252 Paglesham

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:59

Gentlemen,
a friend needs to know what size the exhaust stubs were on the V16 BRM engine (the lightweight) and I suggested a cutaway to give him a good idea.
Can anyone tell me which page of this monster thread I might find one? I'm sure it has appeared at some point.

Unless, of course, you knowledgeable fellows just happen to know how big the stubs were.

Cheers,
Martin

#8253 jayban

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:27

Gentlemen,
a friend needs to know what size the exhaust stubs were on the V16 BRM engine (the lightweight) and I suggested a cutaway to give him a good idea.
Can anyone tell me which page of this monster thread I might find one? I'm sure it has appeared at some point.

Unless, of course, you knowledgeable fellows just happen to know how big the stubs were.

Cheers,
Martin



Hi Martin

You should look on page 190 for a full list of everything here

Jeremy

#8254 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:29

Check out the latest version of the wonderful Ibsen index here on page 200. There are a number of cutaways of both car and engine listed, but I suspect the only one likely to be of any use is the fine cutaway by Mr Matthews here on page 9.

#8255 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:52

Gentlemen,
a friend needs to know what size the exhaust stubs were on the V16 BRM engine (the lightweight) and I suggested a cutaway to give him a good idea.

Posted Image

Martin, I see you've been pointed towards the index, but here's a detail. Quite how it will help I'm not sure, if you know the distance over all eight stubs and/or relative port positions it could be worked out to a reasonable degree of accuracy, and the pipes were probably a standard size, which should narrow it down. I have no measurements, however.

Edited to say - this is not the lightweight, but were the engines significantly different? I thought they were the same.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 10 March 2011 - 10:53.


#8256 werks prototype

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 15:19

Posted Image
Mercedes-Benz W196 low-pivot rear suspension. Inboard drum brakes. Section.
Not a cutaway, but I thought it might be of interest. I think it is a beautiful technical drawing.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:20.


#8257 werks prototype

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 15:50

Posted Image
British Union proposed 3-litre Grand Prix car. Laurence Pomeroy design. Artist unknown.

Posted Image
British Union inboard front brakes. Proposed 3-litre Grand Prix car. Laurence Pomeroy design. Artist unknown.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:20.


#8258 bradbury west

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 16:07

Posted Image
British Union proposed 3-litre Grand Prix car. Laurence Pomeroy design. Artist unknown.



Covered in some detail, as part of another account, by Karl Ludvigsen in his excellent, IMHO, new Chapman book, which I recommend highly. usual disclaimer
Roger Lund

#8259 MEI

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 18:17

Posted Image

Martin, I see you've been pointed towards the index, but here's a detail. Quite how it will help I'm not sure, if you know the distance over all eight stubs and/or relative port positions it could be worked out to a reasonable degree of accuracy, and the pipes were probably a standard size, which should narrow it down. I have no measurements, however.

Edited to say - this is not the lightweight, but were the engines significantly different? I thought they were the same.

Tony - superb. If we all pleaded very nicely, might we possibly see the whole car at that level of resolution? Malcolm

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#8260 Paglesham

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 19:21

Thanks, Tony. That could help.
He reckons they were 1 7/8th"-2" diameter. just because it was supercharged. I say they wouldn't have much more than 1", since every cylinder was so small, even allowing for supercharging, the ports could only be a physically very small diameter.

Cheers,
Martin

#8261 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 20:18

Tony - superb. If we all pleaded very nicely, might we possibly see the whole car at that level of resolution? Malcolm

Bloody Nora!

#8262 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 22:22

Posted Image

Here's a better scan than the early one - unfinished in the cleaning department, I lost the will to live, but I will finish it and re-post it termorrer. Doing in between the spokes is trying, especially with a mouse. There is no way I can post it to the same resolution as that scrap , this is 5MB, the original scan was 13.5MB - and that is just off a 10"x8" trannie. As I said about the Ferrari F2000, that was 290MB, reduced to 90MB, then jpeg'd down further. I don't see how you can post anything with the sort of resolution you want. If anyone knows better, lemme know.

When I say 5MB, that was before Imageshack worked its magic and squeeeezed it down to 630KB.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 10 March 2011 - 22:24.


#8263 werks prototype

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 22:51

if anyone knows better, lemme know.

When I say 5MB, that was before Imageshack worked its magic and squeeeezed it down to 630KB.


It is sufficient enough to see the 'juicy' bits. :up:

#8264 MEI

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 22:58

Posted Image

Here's a better scan than the early one - unfinished in the cleaning department, I lost the will to live, but I will finish it and re-post it termorrer. Doing in between the spokes is trying, especially with a mouse. There is no way I can post it to the same resolution as that scrap , this is 5MB, the original scan was 13.5MB - and that is just off a 10"x8" trannie. As I said about the Ferrari F2000, that was 290MB, reduced to 90MB, then jpeg'd down further. I don't see how you can post anything with the sort of resolution you want. If anyone knows better, lemme know.

When I say 5MB, that was before Imageshack worked its magic and squeeeezed it down to 630KB.

Many thanks, Tony - that's absolutely tremendous already! I suppose the only other option is to tell Imageshack not to scale it down - although I recognize that the result is then a very big image on this site. Malcolm

#8265 Paglesham

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 00:12

Thanks Tony, I think that shows very clearly that those exhausts are tiny.

Cheers,
Martin

#8266 TWest

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 01:00

Many thanks, Tony - that's absolutely tremendous already! I suppose the only other option is to tell Imageshack not to scale it down - although I recognize that the result is then a very big image on this site. Malcolm


I think that the same thing must apply as when I was putting out those 800pixel wide files .. fitted to something, well, small. There are options at the bottom of that menu to scale to the screen, or Do Not Scale ... Think that might be the one you want.
Would love to see that stuff a bit larger.
Also, what program are you using to retouch these? I have been able to clear some of the yellowed backgrounds using the Color Balance under Image in Photoshop. You just go to the highlights, and you get the color shift sliders ... slide away from yellow, and away from red a touch. That usually leaves you with a while, or near white background, and does not effect the midtones, which would be a separate adjustment. You can also use the Dodge tool for highlights. That clears those background fades, too.
Tom West

#8267 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 13:07

I think that the same thing must apply as when I was putting out those 800pixel wide files .. fitted to something, well, small. There are options at the bottom of that menu to scale to the screen, or Do Not Scale ... Think that might be the one you want.
Would love to see that stuff a bit larger.
Also, what program are you using to retouch these? I have been able to clear some of the yellowed backgrounds using the Color Balance under Image in Photoshop. You just go to the highlights, and you get the color shift sliders ... slide away from yellow, and away from red a touch. That usually leaves you with a while, or near white background, and does not effect the midtones, which would be a separate adjustment. You can also use the Dodge tool for highlights. That clears those background fades, too.
Tom West

Posted Image

Done it! Well, done a cut-out, but not lost the slight yellow caste. I don't have Photoshop, I cleaned it up in Paint and reduced the file size in Nikon NX2. I don't mind the caste, it is not offensive, and gives a touch of warmth that a strictly accurate scan of the original artwork would probably lack. In Paint I use the line tool to draw round areas of background that I want to lose and fill them with white. I know, I know - amateur! Then I use the erasor for detail cleaning, although I have to admit that I didn't do a perfect job on the signature/date, as I am supposed to be working and was overcome with guilt. "Oops, hello darling - didn't hear you come in!"

#8268 MEI

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 13:44

Done it! Well, done a cut-out, but not lost the slight yellow caste. I don't have Photoshop, I cleaned it up in Paint and reduced the file size in Nikon NX2. I don't mind the caste, it is not offensive, and gives a touch of warmth that a strictly accurate scan of the original artwork would probably lack. In Paint I use the line tool to draw round areas of background that I want to lose and fill them with white. I know, I know - amateur! Then I use the erasor for detail cleaning, although I have to admit that I didn't do a perfect job on the signature/date, as I am supposed to be working and was overcome with guilt. "Oops, hello darling - didn't hear you come in!"

Thanks Tony - that's absolutely brilliant. The level of detail that you include is phenomenal. I hope you didn't get into too much trouble with the "management". Malcolm

#8269 DHFiallo

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 14:37

Thanks Tony - that's absolutely brilliant. The level of detail that you include is phenomenal. I hope you didn't get into too much trouble with the "management". Malcolm

I must add "WTF"! You even drew the wrinkles in the leather seat! That is fantastic or just showing off? lol

#8270 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 15:48

I must add "WTF"! You even drew the wrinkles in the leather seat! That is fantastic or just showing off? lol

Dunno about showing off, DH, if a leather seat has wrinkles in it I'm going to show them. Where's the pleasure in painting smooth, wrinkle-free leather?

#8271 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 16:14

Posted Image Posted Image
Wrinkly leather... Bring it on!

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 March 2011 - 16:16.


#8272 simplebrother

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 16:30

"Done it! Well, done a cut-out, but not lost the slight yellow caste. I don't have Photoshop, I cleaned it up in Paint..."

If you want a program very similar to PhotoShop without paying the high cost you can use one called GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program). It is free, part of the Open Office group of programs (includes spreadsheet, word processor, image manipulator, etc.) - home page is http://www.openoffice.org/. It does take a bit of practice to get used to it, but it is an extremely powerful program and it costs nothing to use. The spreadsheet and word processor are very similar to Microsoft's (I actually prefer them to the Microsoft products).
Peter

#8273 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 17:36

http://www.openoffice.org/.


Thanks Peter, I'll check it out.

#8274 beighes

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 22:00

Tony...............I've been using GIMP for a couple of years, albeit on a Linux machine. As simplebrother wrote, it does take some practice. After that, the imagination is the limit. I 'm not sure about it being part of OpenOffice, it's not owned by Oracle. Here's the direct link: http://www.gimp.org . Now, back under my rock from whence I came.
Steve

#8275 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 23:02

Thanks Steve, and hi! It does look very interesting - between you and Peter I should be able to sort something out.

#8276 werks prototype

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 12:37

Posted Image
1952 Formula II. H.W.M. By Riche. 4-cylinder Alta engine connected to a Wilson pre-selector gearbox driving the wheels through exposed halfshafts with a de Dion-type rear axle located by trailing arms.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:12.


#8277 werks prototype

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 12:38

Posted Image
1954-55 Mercedes-Benz W196 front end. By S Werner.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:13.


#8278 bradbury west

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 13:16

Posted Image
1954-55 Mercedes-Benz W196 front end. By S Werner.


As it invariably becomes apparent, I am not an engineer, but Pomeroy's design in post 8262, dating according to Ludvigsen from 1938, suggests a degree of prescience by Pomeroy if we examine the above. Inboard drums, torsion bar springing, only the damper mounting being higher rather than from the lower wishbone. A fascinating study, but then I have been wrong before.
Roger Lund

#8279 werks prototype

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 13:42

As it invariably becomes apparent, I am not an engineer, but Pomeroy's design in post 8262, dating according to Ludvigsen from 1938, suggests a degree of prescience by Pomeroy if we examine the above. Inboard drums, torsion bar springing, only the damper mounting being higher rather than from the lower wishbone. A fascinating study, but then I have been wrong before.
Roger Lund


The following excerpt perhaps confirms your hypothesis.

Prediction:

In 1938 Pomeroy suggested via The Motor that the ideal 3-litre G.P. car would have a 135 degree Vee-16 engine with central drive and 45 pounds boost; inboard front brakes connected to the front wheels by shafts and all the mechanical organs mounted in a monocoque stressed aluminium hull with side tanks.

These features were realised on the 1949 B.R.M in respect of the engine; the 1954-55 Mercedes-Benz in regard to the brakes and all-enclosed body; and on the 1962 Type '25' Lotus in respect of the hull form and location of the fuel tanks.

There were of course, considerable variations in the technical realisation of each example.


'Design and behaviour of the racing car' 1963.

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#8280 tbolt

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:05

With only about 45 LSR cutaways (that I know of) I have put together a top 8 rather than a top twenty.
I used the free version of http://www.getpaint.net/ I think it can be done with most image software.

1 Theo Page Bluebird CN7 1964, from the BP book of land speed records

2 Max Millar MG EX135 Max drew several of the MG record cars, but I think this is the best

3 Max Millar Silver Bullet without tail fins

4 William A Moore? Sonic 1

5 William A Moore Spirit of America

6 Max Millar Thunderbolt

7 Theo Page MG EX181

8 Thrust 2 Lawrence Watts

Posted Image

Edited by tbolt, 13 March 2011 - 11:08.


#8281 Karabas

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:13

Three excellent examples of the "Old" Cutaway Art (old posters, acquired by the occasion on eBay):

Max Millar Hawker Hurricane
Posted Image

James Clark Supermarine Spitfire MkII
Posted Image

Theo Page Concorde
Posted Image


#8282 macoran

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:57

High time I did some posting again,
Posted Image
Posted as a coloured-in version by Ibsen on page 145


#8283 macoran

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:57

Posted Image
Theo Page Lotus “Europa” type 47


#8284 macoran

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:58

Negative print …..
Posted Image
Lola T70 MkI posted as B&W line drawing on page 45 by Ibsen


#8285 macoran

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:59

Posted Image
Theo Page Porsche Carrera 6


#8286 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:18

High time I did some posting again,
Posted as a coloured-in version by Ibsen on page 145


:cat: dazzling 'Technicolor'!

Seriously, unique stuff as usual, Marc!


#8287 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:36

With only about 45 LSR cutaways (that I know of) I have put together a top 8 rather than a top twenty.
I used the free version of http://www.getpaint.net/ I think it can be done with most image software.


I do like that particular version of the CN7. I think it was helioseism who originally dug that one up. :up:

I don't suppose we will ever see the 'Djelmo' in cutaway form.

Here is an interesting link. http://www.sandspeed...co.uk/5907.html

And this member of the BB has recently documented the cars in profile. http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=4759114

Edited by werks prototype, 13 March 2011 - 13:05.


#8288 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:38

Three excellent examples of the "Old" Cutaway Art (old posters, acquired by the occasion on eBay):


I wonder who coloured those after the fact? It is certainly a very flat and uniform treatment.

Edited by werks prototype, 13 March 2011 - 13:00.


#8289 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:55

Posted Image
A rather ruddy 1953 Alta-Cooper. Artist unknown.

Posted Image
The Alta-Cooper rear suspension. Artist unknown.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:14.


#8290 Karabas

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 18:56

I wonder who coloured those after the fact? It is certainly a very flat and uniform treatment.


I did not do that. My son does not like to share with me his crayons! :lol:

#8291 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 19:13

I did not do that. My son does not like to share with me his crayons! :lol:


:) I reckon they have been 'computerated' or something though. The flatness is in real contrast to the underlying drawing, especially on the top two.

Nice though! :up:

Makes me think that those that go by the pen name, Bob de Moor or Edgar P. Jacobs, have gone to work on both the Spitfire and the Hurricane. There is something of Hergé's Tintin about them. :)

Edited by werks prototype, 13 March 2011 - 19:25.


#8292 Karabas

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 19:39

:) I reckon they have been 'computerated' or something though. The flatness is in real contrast to the underlying drawing, especially on the top two.

Nice though! :up:

Makes me think that those that go by the pen name, Bob de Moor or Edgar P. Jacobs, have gone to work on both the Spitfire and the Hurricane. There is something of Hergé's Tintin about them. :)



That's why I bought these posters: have never seen a "color" Clark or Miller!
Thought to have discovered a unique rarity, something completely unusual... But it turned out just a fantasy of publisher :)

#8293 ibsenop

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 21:28

Here is a replacement for the Matra 620 by Robert Roux posted by CVA earlier on page 109.

Posted Image

TNF Cutaway Index - updated - page 200 - post 7976 => part A - post 7977 => part B


#8294 werks prototype

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 21:52

Thanks, Ibsen. :up:

It is great also that you have given Pomeroy's proposed British Union its own unique entry.


Loti replacements: 1963 Lotus-Ford 29's as originally posted by Ibsen on page 80. In slightly higher resolution.


Posted Image
Indy stack-pipe. 1963 Lotus-Ford 29. Artist unknown.

Posted Image
1963 Lotus-Ford 29. By Brian Hatton.

Posted Image
1963 Lotus-Ford 29. By Brian Hatton.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:15.


#8295 macoran

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 23:24

presenting Sergio Baratto's Ferrari F50
Posted Image



#8296 TWest

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 00:17

With only about 45 LSR cutaways (that I know of) I have put together a top 8 rather than a top twenty.
I used the free version of http://www.getpaint.net/ I think it can be done with most image software.

1 Theo Page Bluebird CN7 1964, from the BP book of land speed records

2 Max Millar MG EX135 Max drew several of the MG record cars, but I think this is the best

3 Max Millar Silver Bullet without tail fins

4 William A Moore? Sonic 1

5 William A Moore Spirit of America

6 Max Millar Thunderbolt

7 Theo Page MG EX181



Interesting list of Flats cars. Good mix you have going.
Tom West
8 Thrust 2 Lawrence Watts

Posted Image



#8297 simplebrother

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 07:39

I just ran across this - it isn't a car, but it was so unusual that I had to share it.
Chance Vought's XF5U - Flying Flapjack (US fighter prototype abandoned in 1947) by John Weal
Posted Image
Peter

#8298 Duc-Man

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 10:17

Webfind.
Something I haven't seen here before. Honda NSX in race trim. No signature.

Posted Image

#8299 IrishMariner

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 18:47

Webfind.
Something I haven't seen here before. Honda NSX in race trim. No signature.


Thanks.... I like that.

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#8300 macoran

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 19:08

Webfind.
Something I haven't seen here before. Honda NSX in race trim. No signature.

by Takashi Jufuku