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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#8301 TWest

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 19:41

by Takashi Jufuku


Marc,
I knew that you would know who this was. I had it in my unknown file, and in my Jufuku file, so it was sort of all over the place.
Was this used for a Tamiya modelkit cover. I know that they had done this Acura, so I would think this is one of theirs. Unfortunately, my Tamiya stuff is locked in a storage unit that I cannot enter at the moment ...
I really like those kits of that type of car that Tamiya was doing. Too bad the modelkit business is down so much.
And, I guess you could say that about the whole main island over there. Most of the modelkit companies were in the Tokyo area, but it did not strike me that many were near the water. I think that Shizuoko is far enough south that they were probably OK with the earthquake and tsunami situation.
Sorry, a bit of a diversion there ...
Good to see some of your stuff up here, Marc.
Tom

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#8302 macoran

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 22:57

Sergie Baratto replay..
this time his 465GT
Posted Image
A metallic blue one pleeeez !!

#8303 Duc-Man

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 10:35

Another webfind. It seems to be a variation of the 500 in post #6159.

Posted Image

Marc,
is there any drawing you couldn't identify its artist?

#8304 madmad64

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 11:22


hi friends visit
http://lemansprototypes.over-blog.it/


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#8305 onelung

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 11:39

Wrinkly leather... Bring it on!

Mornings, I'm no longer game to look in the bathroom mirror - too much wrinkly leather!
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#8306 werks prototype

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:46

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Re-post of the Porsche Type 718-RSK. 1958. Different context. Alongside Porsche D.I.Y Disc brake. By Charles Hurford.


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Drum brake (left). Disc brake (right). Vacuum-servo system (below). By R.J.Way.


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Triumph T.R.3 front Girling disc brake. Artist unknown.

#8307 werks prototype

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:47

Posted Image
3.5 litre, Lorraine-Dietrich Le Mans winner 1925-26. By G. Gedo.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:16.


#8308 werks prototype

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:49

hi friends visit
http://lemansprototypes.over-blog.it/


Really nice work. :up: (Particularly the Lola)


#8309 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 17:00

Posted Image

Amelia Earhart found alive and well, living in Argentina!

#8310 madmad64

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 18:43

Really nice work. :up: (Particularly the Lola)


oh thanks werks
what lola
i send you it
in high resolution

mad@netfly.it


#8311 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 19:14

Marc,
is there any drawing you couldn't identify its artist?


Plenty !!and I often get it wrong as well.
It just happens I had this NSX racer in my "to post" file, you just beat me to it.

Here you can see more of his Takashi Jufuku's work
http://www.nigensha....aa/jufuku2.html

#8312 werks prototype

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 19:31

Plenty !!and I often get it wrong as well.It just happens I had this NSX racer in my "to post" file, you just beat me to it.

Here you can see more of his Takashi Jufuku's work
http://www.nigensha....aa/jufuku2.html


No you don't. You are pretty damn consistent. You have identified Jufuku for me before.

#8313 simplebrother

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 00:27

Found this 3/31/1948 article on F3 Cooper 500s from Motor on the web...
Posted Image
Illustrations of the Cooper 500 include the cutaway in the article (signed, but too small for me to read - someone may recognize the signature by the right rear wheel) is of the '48 Mk1
Posted Image
a Max Millar '47 Mk1
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a Vic Berris '51 Mk5
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a Theo Page '54 Mk8 (found on page 58, post 2319)
and others, but the quality of scans that I have of other 500s (anonymous '51 Mk5, Max Millar '55 Mk9) is insufficient to share. Sorry that the resolution is so poor - I don't have larger versions of these images.

Peter

#8314 rwstevens59

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:12

Requesting information about technique:

Hello to all. I am new to this forum and have reviewed up to about page 70 of the 200 plus pages of this thread. I located this thread while researching cutaway drawings accredited to C.O. La Tourette. What a find! Fantastic illustrations and best of all participation by those who created them. I am simply amazed at the amount of material posted to date.

I am 51 years old and was trained at the board in mechanical drawing and machine design starting in my high school days, through technical school and continuing with my first full time job with Texaco Research and Development here in the United States. I am currently employed as a tool designer and model maker (yes, I wear an apron and make the chips) for the IBM corporation. I am in no way shape or form an artist.

In my training as a draftsman and subsequent career of course I have mainly worked in the world of orthographic projection. Any illustration has been left to isometric, trimetric and dimetric line drawing with minimal rendering. I have a base understanding of perspective drawing in one, two and three point. I have always had a desire to pursue manual perspective techniques further but have been stopped either by time constraints or lack of good reference material (or a good instructor). As you most likely already know almost all manual drafting texts of old cover orthographic machine drawing extensively followed by a fairly thorough treatment of isometric projection or isometric drawing finishing with a very short chapter on perspective which invariably includes one point receding telephone poles with the accompanying railroad tracks and then maybe a two point version of a simple architectural structure. No treatment of machine parts and the selection of proper ellipse sizes and degree. Very frustrating. I have several texts in my library strictly on the subject of technical illustration but they are all simply a more in depth treatment isometric, and other axonometric drawing techniques.

So, I would humbly ask the experts on this forum if there exist any good reference material on the techniques used in producing the wonderful perspective layout roughs I have seen so far. I would like to learn for no other reason than personal satisfaction. The computer now dominates industry and I use them daily in my work as a model maker. However, I still 'create' at the drawing board and then enter the data into the computer. I can't seem to think about creating a design and work with the computer at the same time. I don't have to think about using my pencil.

Thank you for reading this long introductory ramble and thank all of you with being so free with posting your works.

I would really like to give it a 'go' just to see if I can do some small assemblies in cutaway with proper perspective.

Ralph

Edited by rwstevens59, 16 March 2011 - 01:14.


#8315 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:18

Thank you for reading this long introductory ramble and thank all of you with being so free with posting your works.


Ralph

Hi Ralph - an interesting post, worthy of a proper answer, but it's well past my bedtime... I'll be back!

#8316 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:35

Found this 3/31/1948 article on F3 Cooper 500s from Motor on the web...
Posted Image
Illustrations of the Cooper 500 include the cutaway in the article (signed, but too small for me to read - someone may recognize the signature by the right rear wheel) is of the '48 Mk1
Posted Image
a Max Millar '47 Mk1
Posted Image
a Vic Berris '51 Mk5
Posted Image
a Theo Page '54 Mk8 (found on page 58, post 2319)
and others, but the quality of scans that I have of other 500s (anonymous '51 Mk5, Max Millar '55 Mk9) is insufficient to share. Sorry that the resolution is so poor - I don't have larger versions of these images.

Peter



I think that first Cooper was Bill Bennett, unless there was another Bennett doing this stuff. Not like there are that many Bettis around ... not exactly a family business generally.
Tom West

#8317 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 04:52

I think that first Cooper was Bill Bennett, unless there was another Bennett doing this stuff. Not like there are that many Bettis around ... not exactly a family business generally.
Tom West


I think I can also confirm the first Cooper.

Posted Image
Mark 1.500cc Cooper. Cooper '500'. 1948. By Bill Bennett.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:17.


#8318 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 04:55

Posted Image
Back again, the 1952 Kieft '500'. Artist unknown.


Posted Image
The Kieft rear axle. Artist unknown.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:18.


#8319 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:55

Posted Image
Back again, the 1952 Kieft '500'. Artist unknown.


Posted Image
The Kieft rear axle. Artist unknown.



That Kieft CK512 is by Vic Berris, according to what I have done with it in the files.
Theo Page did an illustration of the fearsome Kieft GP car ... just to bring you up to date on your Kieft cutaway reference ...

Tom West

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#8320 simplebrother

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:47

That Kieft CK512 is by Vic Berris, according to what I have done with it in the files.
Theo Page did an illustration of the fearsome Kieft GP car ... just to bring you up to date on your Kieft cutaway reference ...

Tom West


Thanks for filling in the blanks, all... the Kieft CK51 is in an on-line article (http://www.500race.o...rques/Kieft.htm) but it does not identify the illustrator - Page's illustration of the '52 Kieft front-engined Coventry Climax unit is great.

Perhaps someone knows the illustrator of the other Cooper 500 ('51 MK5)
Posted Image

or has a better version of Max Millar's '55 Mk9?
Posted Image

the JAP engine that powered the 500s
Posted Image

Peter

Edited by simplebrother, 16 March 2011 - 07:32.


#8321 Motocar

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 13:03

Obama armour Cadillac Limousine, artist unknow........


Posted Image

And Ford electric concept Comuta Micro Car, Artist dont to read'

Posted Image



#8322 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 13:15

And Ford electric concept Comuta Micro Car, Artist dont to read'

Posted Image

Theo Page

#8323 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:08

oh thanks werks
what lola
i send you it
in high resolution

mad@netfly.it


Drayson Lola B10/60 LMP1, details and exhaust received! :up:

Thanks once again, Antonio.

Edited by werks prototype, 16 March 2011 - 16:23.


#8324 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:10

That Kieft CK512 is by Vic Berris, according to what I have done with it in the files.
Theo Page did an illustration of the fearsome Kieft GP car ... just to bring you up to date on your Kieft cutaway reference ...

Tom West


Thanks, Tom. I don't know why I typed artist unknown. I have been obsessing over that Kieft rear-axle too much, I think.

Edited by werks prototype, 16 March 2011 - 16:34.


#8325 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:33

Thanks for filling in the blanks, all... the Kieft CK51 is in an on-line article (http://www.500race.o...rques/Kieft.htm) but it does not identify the illustrator - Page's illustration of the '52 Kieft front-engined Coventry Climax unit is great.

Peter



Something else, Cooper related.

Posted Image
Coventry Climax, 2.5-litre FPF unit. By S.E.Porter.

Edited by werks prototype, 01 June 2012 - 14:18.


#8326 Motocar

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:35

Thanks Tony Matthews..........


Posted Image

Now more clarity drawing


#8327 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:52

Thanks Tony Matthews..........


Posted Image

Now more clarity drawing

Ooh! It's like putting my new glasses on!

#8328 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 16:52

Gordon Murray! :)

http://www.gordonmur...n.com/press.php

#8329 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:07

Going to put up few things bit different from my normal material, a few aircraft. I had started pulling these things back at the beginning of Air Enthusiast magazine and have the complete collection in my storage unit at the moment. These are all coming from relatively current issues of Air International and Aeroplane, as will be noted.
The first, mainly by file name, is the Armstrong-Whitworth Albemarle I. Drawn by James Clark, it would have been published originally in 1944. This is out of Aeroplane and their wonderful DataBase section.
Tom West

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#8330 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:09

This is another piece out of the Aeroplane DataBase feature, the DeHavilland DH-106 Comet 4. Original publication was 1958, and drawn by James H. Clark.
Tom West

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#8331 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:11

Another classic aircraft being detailed in the Database series in Aeroplane, this is the Fairey Barracuda Mk. II. This was drawn by Max Millar and first published in 1944.
Tom West

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#8332 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:14

A bit more contemporary, this is the now-classic Hawker-Siddeley Harrier GR Mk. I by Frank Munger, first published in 1967. Out of the latest issue of Aeroplane.
Tom West

Posted Image

#8333 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:16

The Short Sunderland Mk. I is also out of Aeroplane. This was by James H. Clark and first published in 1939.
Tom West

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#8334 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:18

James Clark's illustration of the Supermarine Scimitar F.1 was published in 1959, recently rerun in Aeroplane.
Tom West

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#8335 TWest

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 21:20

A bit unusual was the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl Mk. V, as illustrated by Mike Badrocke, and recently published in Aeroplane.
Tom West


Posted Image

#8336 werks prototype

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 22:32

A bit unusual was the Westland-Hill Pterodactyl Mk. V, as illustrated by Mike Badrocke, and recently published in Aeroplane.
Tom West


Posted Image


Never seen that before, Tom.

:up:

#8337 macoran

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 00:21

No, I am not trying to start a big,bigger,largest competition,
just want to share this one.
Posted Image

edit: Tom, I see you've just got your pilot's licence ....... :p

Edited by macoran, 17 March 2011 - 00:23.


#8338 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 13:49

Hi Ralph - an interesting post, worthy of a proper answer, but it's well past my bedtime... I'll be back!


Mr. Matthews,

Thank you for your reply and your great contributions to this thread.

I have been continuing to read through all of the posts on this thread and I am closing in on getting through the first one hundred pages.

And I have happily come upon the back and forth between yourself and other illustrators discussing the different techniques developed by each of you to produce these fantastic illustrations.

This has caused me to sit back and think about why as an accomplished draftsman do I have so much trouble with the prospect of drawing in perspective. I have the basic tool set and the ability to locate almost anything in an orthographic drawing using the principles of descriptive geometry. My freehand sketching is decent as I use it more than anything else in my daily work to explain machine parts and assemblies to others. My isometrics are good even when using an old technique developed to project objects with a rotated plan while maintaining a constant angle of tilt to provide a better view in a quasi-isometric drawing. I taught myself this technique from a text published by a draftsman (draughtsman) from the U.K. whose name escapes me at the moment. So what have I identified as my problems?

1. I may just be intimidated into not stepping off the ledge. You can convince yourself not to do anything if you work at it enough.

2. In all parallel projections you have a definite means of measuring which stays constant. Measured perspective is part of the problem.

3. I am a lousy photographer. I am much more content to work on the race cars then photograph them.

4. I guess I may not be as knowledgeable about the use of the ellipse in space as I might think.

5. I may look but I don't 'see'. At least in 3D.

To not waste your time being a nurse maid to an amateur. I guess my question boils down to reference material you might know about to help me over my mental block with measured prospective and the proper use of the ellipse in perspective drawing.

Why do I pursue this? I have identified a gap in my knowledge of a subject and when that happens it 'must' be filled in. My wife is now calling my psychoanalyst so this will all go away soon with the proper medication, or so she thinks. :)

Thank you for all you have already posted regarding your own techniques. Very, very educational.

Ralph




#8339 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 14:37

I have been continuing to read through all of the posts on this thread and I am closing in on getting through the first one hundred pages.

Thank you for all you have already posted regarding your own techniques. Very, very educational.

Ralph

Quite some read!

Sorry not to have replied yet, but I've been busy, you will get a response soon, but I didn't necessarily work in exactly the same way as some others, so I hope you'll get more answers than just mine!

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#8340 Tom Johnson

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 15:25

Mr. Matthews,

Thank you for your reply and your great contributions to this thread.

I have been continuing to read through all of the posts on this thread and I am closing in on getting through the first one hundred pages.

And I have happily come upon the back and forth between yourself and other illustrators discussing the different techniques developed by each of you to produce these fantastic illustrations.

This has caused me to sit back and think about why as an accomplished draftsman do I have so much trouble with the prospect of drawing in perspective. I have the basic tool set and the ability to locate almost anything in an orthographic drawing using the principles of descriptive geometry. My freehand sketching is decent as I use it more than anything else in my daily work to explain machine parts and assemblies to others. My isometrics are good even when using an old technique developed to project objects with a rotated plan while maintaining a constant angle of tilt to provide a better view in a quasi-isometric drawing. I taught myself this technique from a text published by a draftsman (draughtsman) from the U.K. whose name escapes me at the moment. So what have I identified as my problems?

1. I may just be intimidated into not stepping off the ledge. You can convince yourself not to do anything if you work at it enough.

2. In all parallel projections you have a definite means of measuring which stays constant. Measured perspective is part of the problem.

3. I am a lousy photographer. I am much more content to work on the race cars then photograph them.

4. I guess I may not be as knowledgeable about the use of the ellipse in space as I might think.

5. I may look but I don't 'see'. At least in 3D.

To not waste your time being a nurse maid to an amateur. I guess my question boils down to reference material you might know about to help me over my mental block with measured prospective and the proper use of the ellipse in perspective drawing.

Why do I pursue this? I have identified a gap in my knowledge of a subject and when that happens it 'must' be filled in. My wife is now calling my psychoanalyst so this will all go away soon with the proper medication, or so she thinks. :)

Thank you for all you have already posted regarding your own techniques. Very, very educational.

Ralph


Hi Ralph,

Might I suggest this as a start:http://www.khulsey.com/perspective_basics.html. I also was confused when trying to get a grasp of perspective early in my career. When I draw a technical subject, everything is based on the fact that when a circle is placed within a square, it will contact the square at the mid-points of each side of that square. As I build and plot complicated parts, I use that principle to figure out where stuff is.

A mistake I made early on was that I tended to get too deep in the mechanical aspect of techical drawing. David Kimble set me free when he told me "Just trust your eyes....If it LOOKS right - it IS right. 'Trust the force, Luke.'


#8341 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 17:25

Hi Ralph,

Might I suggest this as a start:http://www.khulsey.com/perspective_basics.html. I also was confused when trying to get a grasp of perspective early in my career. When I draw a technical subject, everything is based on the fact that when a circle is placed within a square, it will contact the square at the mid-points of each side of that square. As I build and plot complicated parts, I use that principle to figure out where stuff is.

A mistake I made early on was that I tended to get too deep in the mechanical aspect of techical drawing. David Kimble set me free when he told me "Just trust your eyes....If it LOOKS right - it IS right. 'Trust the force, Luke.'


Tom,

Thank you for your input and I will check out the site you mentioned. There is no doubt that with my life's work as a mechanic, tool & model maker and draftsman, that I am hung up on the mechanical aspect. If I can't measure it how am I supposed to build it, is definitely part of the problem.

As I look at the layouts on this thread I just can't help thinking about the system or method of first setting up the view and then being able to locate the components, bore spacing, valve angles, crank to cam centerline relationship, etc lets say for an engine cutaway. And also how each of those components change in size and ellipse degree as they recede along the perspective lines established for the view chosen. And that method has to adjust for every view chosen for each different illustration. That's a lot of stuff to keep track of! I guess I will need to put in a call to Yoda to help get my head around this. :drunk:

Thanks Again,

Ralph

#8342 TWest

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 17:59

Tom,

Thank you for your input and I will check out the site you mentioned. There is no doubt that with my life's work as a mechanic, tool & model maker and draftsman, that I am hung up on the mechanical aspect. If I can't measure it how am I supposed to build it, is definitely part of the problem.

As I look at the layouts on this thread I just can't help thinking about the system or method of first setting up the view and then being able to locate the components, bore spacing, valve angles, crank to cam centerline relationship, etc lets say for an engine cutaway. And also how each of those components change in size and ellipse degree as they recede along the perspective lines established for the view chosen. And that method has to adjust for every view chosen for each different illustration. That's a lot of stuff to keep track of! I guess I will need to put in a call to Yoda to help get my head around this. :drunk:

Thanks Again,

Ralph



Ralph,
I am going to throw a viewpoint in there that is very different from some of these folks, like Mr. Matthews, who would be a wonderful artist, no matter what his chosen subject. I also got my training in drafting in school, and after a couple of years doing it in Denver, came to California and really knew more than the teacher. He allowed me to experiment and to "learn" on my own the cutway styles by just copying them. I did this when I was 17, with a couple of LaTourette, Allington, Moore and Swaja pieces. I taught myself photography so I had reference that I could take with me, and started doing these things myself.

As a completely no-discernible-drawing-skill guy, I found that if I could get a photo of a car, only the exterior, could pick a couple of vanishing points, figure out a couple of the other odd axes in a car (engine sit or steering column, for example), with photos I could fill in the rest. Not sure where that is from, but it might work for you with your background.

Try picking a couple of drawings and reproduce them just to get a feel.

Think in blocks, like the body lines, or a complete wheel assembly, but taking into account what is around it ... don't just fill in area as you see it, but think in complete subsections to get things to look correct and not choppy and lumpy ... or is that lumpy and choppy???

Get a reasonable, not necessarily a hugely expensive, camera system and figure out how to shoot photos. As a basis, you can always use them to just copy and build an illustration.

Easy, and one can be taught .. I am proof that you don't have to be that skilled to pull this stuff off.

Since you seem to have some drawing ability, it will only shorten your learning curve.

I think everyone has to come from their own place, but just figure out something and draw something, even a copy. It will let you know how this stuff feels, you will see what is actually involved, and you can start creating your own style.

I may not be the best at this stuff .. there are many others here in the group who lay claim to that honor, but I started with no training or ability and taught myself, so it is something that is possible, just do it .. to steal a Nike line.

Tom West

#8343 TWest

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 18:06

I knew that something was missing when I sent out the aircraft stuff ... I had this in pieces, so put it together last night and ... am sending it now. Was that trite, or what? You obviously can see that ...
This is from the February Air International, and has been printed previously. This is the Martin-built and General Dynamics modified high-altitude research version of the B-57/Canberra, the WB-57F, as used by NASA. Interesting piece.
Tom West


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#8344 Tom Johnson

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 18:14

Hey Ralph,

Another thing that is crucial for finding out where all the different parts are, say, within an engine for example is to understand how to build squares in perspective and how they recede toward the vanishing points in 2D. Check out Kevin Hulsey's
Ellipse drawing tutorial, in particular, Figures 7 through 11. When I did engine cutaways for GM, usually all I had was a photo of the engine assy plus a bunch of PAD drawings - all produced in isometric. Without understanding how to costruct a series of squares in perspective, I would have been hopelessly lost trying to figure out where all those internal parts were which I couldn't see.

Tom

#8345 TWest

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 18:52

Hey Ralph,

Another thing that is crucial for finding out where all the different parts are, say, within an engine for example is to understand how to build squares in perspective and how they recede toward the vanishing points in 2D. Check out Kevin Hulsey's
Ellipse drawing tutorial, in particular, Figures 7 through 11. When I did engine cutaways for GM, usually all I had was a photo of the engine assy plus a bunch of PAD drawings - all produced in isometric. Without understanding how to costruct a series of squares in perspective, I would have been hopelessly lost trying to figure out where all those internal parts were which I couldn't see.

Tom



I have never really had the chance to do an engine cutaway, but have drawn a couple of them for modelkit and diecast projects. I have found that, if you do a subject that gives you access, you can photograph parts and figure out what they look like. Setting up those ellipse axes really becomes the major consideration for this sort of thing, as Tom has indicated. From an illustration standpoint you will have vanishing points running all over the place, but take this stuff a step at a time and walk through it. They take a hell of a long time so you have time to think about it.
Also, in my particular style, begin with the outside, or most forward part and move backward away from your viewpoint, sort of like mentally using a carving technique. If a car has open wheels, do it first, then the parts behind it, then the parts behind that ... etc. Break your process into small steps, but think in complete pieces, not just individual lines; it makes it much more understandable as you draw it for yourself, and for your end viewer.
Also ... what Tom said ... :)
Tom West

#8346 Karabas

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 20:15

Going to put up few things bit different from my normal material, a few aircraft. I had started pulling these things back at the beginning of Air Enthusiast magazine and have the complete collection in my storage unit at the moment. These are all coming from relatively current issues of Air International and Aeroplane, as will be noted.
The first, mainly by file name, is the Armstrong-Whitworth Albemarle I. Drawn by James Clark, it would have been published originally in 1944. This is out of Aeroplane and their wonderful DataBase section.
Tom West

Posted Image


Tom, thank you very much for these excellent examples. Very, very interesting! :up:
I hope for your continuation of this impressive series, dedicated to Aviation.

Some old artworks from the Singer set (1977). Artist - Borst
Of course, today they look a bit naive, but in their own way they are very artistic.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#8347 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 21:01

Quite some read!

Sorry not to have replied yet, but I've been busy, you will get a response soon, but I didn't necessarily work in exactly the same way as some others, so I hope you'll get more answers than just mine!


Mr. Matthews,

There is no urgency in my query at all. At your convenience, whenever time permits. I was just trying to clarify where my head was at.

Ralph


#8348 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 21:11

Ralph,
I am going to throw a viewpoint in there that is very different from some of these folks, like Mr. Matthews, who would be a wonderful artist, no matter what his chosen subject. I also got my training in drafting in school, and after a couple of years doing it in Denver, came to California and really knew more than the teacher. He allowed me to experiment and to "learn" on my own the cutway styles by just copying them. I did this when I was 17, with a couple of LaTourette, Allington, Moore and Swaja pieces. I taught myself photography so I had reference that I could take with me, and started doing these things myself.

As a completely no-discernible-drawing-skill guy, I found that if I could get a photo of a car, only the exterior, could pick a couple of vanishing points, figure out a couple of the other odd axes in a car (engine sit or steering column, for example), with photos I could fill in the rest. Not sure where that is from, but it might work for you with your background.

Try picking a couple of drawings and reproduce them just to get a feel.

Think in blocks, like the body lines, or a complete wheel assembly, but taking into account what is around it ... don't just fill in area as you see it, but think in complete subsections to get things to look correct and not choppy and lumpy ... or is that lumpy and choppy???

Get a reasonable, not necessarily a hugely expensive, camera system and figure out how to shoot photos. As a basis, you can always use them to just copy and build an illustration.

Easy, and one can be taught .. I am proof that you don't have to be that skilled to pull this stuff off.

Since you seem to have some drawing ability, it will only shorten your learning curve.

I think everyone has to come from their own place, but just figure out something and draw something, even a copy. It will let you know how this stuff feels, you will see what is actually involved, and you can start creating your own style.

I may not be the best at this stuff .. there are many others here in the group who lay claim to that honor, but I started with no training or ability and taught myself, so it is something that is possible, just do it .. to steal a Nike line.

Tom West


Tom West,

Thanks for your view point and I appreciate and will try your suggestions.

In the photography department I am in luck as I poisoned my son at the age of four by taking him to the race track. Now, I come from a family of a long line of mechanics, machinists and toolmakers. So naturally I are one :drunk: . My son however has found his place as a budding photographer in the racing world. At seventeen he has been fortunate to have several photos published in the eastern racing papers and is working for a local track photographer. He of course is all digital and has never seen a roll of film in his life. Dad has found out quickly the price of this endeavor. Now if I can just get him to take a few shots for the 'old man' :| .


#8349 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 21:23

Hey Ralph,

Another thing that is crucial for finding out where all the different parts are, say, within an engine for example is to understand how to build squares in perspective and how they recede toward the vanishing points in 2D. Check out Kevin Hulsey's
Ellipse drawing tutorial, in particular, Figures 7 through 11. When I did engine cutaways for GM, usually all I had was a photo of the engine assy plus a bunch of PAD drawings - all produced in isometric. Without understanding how to costruct a series of squares in perspective, I would have been hopelessly lost trying to figure out where all those internal parts were which I couldn't see.

Tom


Tom Johnson,

Thanks for your input. I have several odd references on perspective. One is for the comic artist and naturally is not mechanical but is quite good at describing what Tom West pointed out, that as you rotate objects in a two point perspective you have just created two new vanishing points. The other are two DVD's by Robertson an industrial designer who used to work, I believe, designing the 'Hot Wheels' cars. His work is totally freehand and is done on a perspective grid laid down roughly and then he builds the car up using a method very similar to how aluminum race car bodies are/were made by creating a series of station bucks and then skinning over them. Great stuff, fairly accurate but of much more of a artistic type of car exterior rendering.

Time to just jump in the pond and start swimming (or drowning) I guess. :lol:


#8350 TWest

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:38

Tom West,

Thanks for your view point and I appreciate and will try your suggestions.

In the photography department I am in luck as I poisoned my son at the age of four by taking him to the race track. Now, I come from a family of a long line of mechanics, machinists and toolmakers. So naturally I are one :drunk: . My son however has found his place as a budding photographer in the racing world. At seventeen he has been fortunate to have several photos published in the eastern racing papers and is working for a local track photographer. He of course is all digital and has never seen a roll of film in his life. Dad has found out quickly the price of this endeavor. Now if I can just get him to take a few shots for the 'old man' :| .



My advice .. get way more than a few. I used to do these things with 20 shots or so. Now, I just shoot the hell out of the thing as much as possible. Unless you are taking the car home with you to draw in your office, you probably will be using those pics for you information base. There are ways to do this stuff that will give you the information to allow all of this to be done more mechanically than from artistic skill, believe me. Shoot way more than you think you will ever need. Never enough, no matter what you shoot.
Tom West