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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#801 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 14:17

Originally posted by macoran
I haven't been reading much these past few days as I broke my specs, picked up my new ones and am catching up. Hope you are well now Tony.


Thank you Pat and Marc, yup, on the mend. My right hand is still swollen and other bits hurt, but I'll be OK for light duty on Monday - fortunately we had broken the back (ha ha) of the job, chopping out cast in situ reinforced concrete lintels, but I will be more careful in future. It's my second fall, but the first was nasty, and Pat, you are right, as you age you don't bounce!

As to your specs Marc, I peered into my morning coffee mug just now and thought - that's odd, there's a tiny mushroom growing in there - on closer inspection it was one of the nose-pads from my glasses! The wierd thing is they fit better without it. It's a strange world....

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#802 David M. Kane

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 14:36

I donated the remaining stock of my Bill Bennett cutaways to the Research Center in Watkins Glen a few years ago. There was TS-7, BT33, 701, 711 and P153 examples in the lot. If any of you are interested in them you should contact Mark Steigerwald (607/535-9044) or mark@racingarchives.org.

They might have auction off some of them at their annual fundraiser; but I'm sure they kept at least sample of each in their archives.

#803 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 14:45

Originally posted by David M. Kane
I donated the remaining stock of my Bill Bennett cutaways to the Research Center in Watkins Glen a few years ago. There was TS-7, BT33, 701, 711 and P153 examples in the lot.


David, I take it you are talking about original artwork, I am interested to know where it came from, taking into account the fifth ammendment! I am going to catalogue what I have, and hoping that this evening will get me on his trail...

#804 David M. Kane

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 15:10

Tony:

They are production prints, I had a deal with Bill in the '70s to sell his prints here in the States. Bill, if he is still around has the originals.

Boy I wish I had his originals! I think that would be awesome!

#805 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 15:42

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Boy I wish I had his originals! I think that would be awesome!



At a guess I have 15 - 20 original cutaways, and a load of small illustrations showing suspension detail etc.

#806 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 19:29

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Aston Martin DBR1, what a beautiful car! Right, I'm off for a Chinese! Meal, that is...

#807 Pils1989

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 19:49

What a beautiful drawing! :up: :up:

#808 Bonde

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 21:52

Tony,

The mere thought of your gifted hands being injured makes me wince! Get well soon!

And what a fabulous working drawing of the Aston Martin!

I'm curious: Wasn't your colour version of the FW14B 'turned around', i.e. nose to the right? Or am I confusing my memory with something else?

#809 macoran

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 22:05

Originally posted by Bonde
I'm curious: Wasn't your colour version of the FW14B 'turned around', i.e. nose to the right? Or am I confusing my memory with something else?


I think that was FW14(A) , anyway we'll have to wait till Tony finishes his Foo Yong Hai

#810 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:26

Originally posted by macoran


I think that was FW14(A) , anyway we'll have to wait till Tony finishes his Foo Yong Hai


BUUUUUUUURGH! Pardon me! Just finished! Absolutely spot on, Marc, FW14. My attempt to make each illustration different to it's neighbour. I can never remember whether it's different to or different from - I rely on friends who's first language is not English to correct me.

Anders, thank you for your concern, the various swellings are lessening, a lot of brandy has helped the pain, I'm nearly OK.

And thank you too Pils.

#811 IrishMariner

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 03:52

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Thank you Pat and Marc, yup, on the mend. My right hand is still swollen and other bits hurt, but I'll be OK for light duty on Monday - fortunately we had broken the back (ha ha) of the job, chopping out cast in situ reinforced concrete lintels, but I will be more careful in future. It's my second fall, but the first was nasty, and Pat, you are right, as you age you don't bounce!

As to your specs Marc, I peered into my morning coffee mug just now and thought - that's odd, there's a tiny mushroom growing in there - on closer inspection it was one of the nose-pads from my glasses! The wierd thing is they fit better without it. It's a strange world....


Hope you are felling better and are back to normal, soon, Tony.

#812 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:49

Originally posted by IrishMariner


Hope you are felling better and are back to normal, soon, Tony.


Thanks IM, nearly there, it wasn't too bad, more a painful reminder about 'Elf 'n' Safety.

#813 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:28

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One of Bill Bennet's lovely little detail sketches - only slightly bigger than A4, and on paper rather than board. As we used to chant in swimming periods at school, 'Stiff board bored stiff, stiff board is!'. I think I may regret writing that...

I am surprised how titchy some of Bill's cutaways are, but the smallest is far too big to scan, I'll have to find a solution.

#814 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:03

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Absolutely spot on, Marc, FW14. My attempt to make each illustration different to it's neighbour. I can never remember whether it's different to or different from - I rely on friends who's first language is not English to correct me.

That'll be me, then, for today? :D My dictionary says both are correct, so no need for worry - err, or is it 'need to worry' :confused: : :| :lol:

Last not least, let me also be included in the list of well-wishers! :up:

#815 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:39

Originally posted by fines
My dictionary says both are correct, so no need for worry - err, or is it 'need to worry' :confused: : :| :lol:


Thank you Michael. And worry I shall not, or shall I not, won't, neither either.

#816 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:11

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I have no idea what this is from, a fairly hefty bit of iron-work, is that a Jag diff.?

#817 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:31

Williams FW14B rear end... :rotfl:

#818 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 13:09

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
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I have no idea what this is from, a fairly hefty bit of iron-work, is that a Jag diff.?


Drawing done for the announcement that Triumph TR4A would be on IRS ? just a guess...

but pretty sure now, check out the chassis frame here: http://www.willowtriumph.com/page5.htm

#819 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 13:26

Originally posted by fines
Williams FW14B rear end... :rotfl:


You're in a jolly mood this morning, Michael. Is the sun shining on you too?

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#820 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 13:28

Originally posted by macoran
Drawing done for the announcement that Triumph TR4A would be on IRS ?


At first glance Marc I mis-read IRS as RSJ - not far off, either! I must still be in building mode.

Yep, that's correct, well done. The problem I have is that there are no written notes or clues on Bill Bennet's drawings.

#821 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 14:28

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I need some feedback here, I love these drawings but they are not cutaways - if anyone feels they don't belong let me know. I don't know what the copyright situation is either, but I don't see it as a major problem, and not all the detail drawings that I have are of great interest. For instance, illustrations of remotely-adjustable mirrors, headlamp adjusters etc. I am going to see what sort of results I get photographing the cutaways, I know exactly how to get the results I want using film but digital is not obvious, unless there's a 'litho' mode that I haven't noticed in the inch-thick manual for my camera.

#822 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 16:12

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Tony I shot this BT34 (not yours) with a 10mP pocket camera, details stay sharp even if zoomed
significantly. But since it required flash there is a huge reflex spot, so I may try it again in broad
daylight

#823 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 16:23

Originally posted by Tony Matthews

I need some feedback here, I love these drawings but they are not cutaways -


I enjoy such artwork as much as the pure cutaways...the BRM is very good, and I enjoyed puzzling over the TR4A.
I suppose that since the thread is about cutaways AND the artists, who am I to judge that the artists's other work be posted now and then.

#824 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:02

I'm relieved to read that you're on the road to recovery after that fall, Tony. Must have been quite a tumble. Get those hands insured by Lloyds! :)

As for the V-8 Chevy c/w Webers...

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...a Grand Sport Corvette installation? And yes, by all means, post more of such illustrations. They're a treat!

#825 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:14

Originally posted by macoran
Tony I shot this BT34 (not yours) with a 10mP pocket camera, details stay sharp even if zoomed
significantly. But since it required flash there is a huge reflex spot, so I may try it again in broad
daylight


It's not so much the pixel-count Marc, more that I'd like to get a good contrast, sharp black on a pure white. All my B/W stuff has been scanned as grey-scale for the forum because if I try a B/W scan I get all sorts of strange effects. I'm just trying to maximise Bill Bennet's line artwork. I've got all the equipment, it's just that digital doesn't do what I expect it to do, so a steepish learning curve. We will see...

#826 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:18

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin
I'm relieved to read that you're on the road to recovery after that fall, Tony. Must have been quite a tumble. Get those hands insured by Lloyds! :)


Thank you Manfred, Lloyds refused to insure my legs so not much chance they'd risk a heavy loss on my hands! Which reminds me, I must take these fishnet tights off, they itch after 18 hours...

#827 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:22

Originally posted by macoran
Tony I shot this BT34 (not yours) with a 10mP pocket camera, details stay sharp even if zoomed
significantly. But since it required flash there is a huge reflex spot, so I may try it again in broad
daylight


Dick Ellis, Marc? When I first looked at the small image I thought the rear tyres were far too small relative to the fronts, but then I remembered that the BT34 was before the explosion in rear tyre dimensions.

#828 David M. Kane

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:30

Tony I for one would like to see any technical drawing you find as they follow an educational line of thought for me. :up:

#829 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:36

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Tony I for one would like to see any technical drawing you find as they follow an educational line of thought for me. :up:


That is how I feel, David, I just wanted to check that it was OK with others. After all, most of Jim Allington's and my work, although technical, was not cutaways. However, the thread title is 'The cutaway drawing and its artists'...

#830 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Thank you Manfred, Lloyds refused to insure my legs so not much chance they'd risk a heavy loss on my hands! Which reminds me, I must take these fishnet tights off, they itch after 18 hours...


Be careful Tony, some of our foreign friends might not get your sense of humour!! Lloyd's wouldn't insure you anyway; you're not old enough!! :cool:

#831 alansart

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Posted Image

I need some feedback here, I love these drawings but they are not cutaways - if anyone feels they don't belong let me know. I don't know what the copyright situation is either, but I don't see it as a major problem, and not all the detail drawings that I have are of great interest. For instance, illustrations of remotely-adjustable mirrors, headlamp adjusters etc. I am going to see what sort of results I get photographing the cutaways, I know exactly how to get the results I want using film but digital is not obvious, unless there's a 'litho' mode that I haven't noticed in the inch-thick manual for my camera.


A time before Rotring pens when ruling pens and the humble paintbrush were the tools of the trade. Great to see again :)

#832 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:16

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall


Be careful Tony, some of our foreign friends might not get your sense of humour!! Lloyd's wouldn't insure you anyway; you're not old enough!! :cool:


You're right, Gregor, I must be more cautious - I often think of Oscar Wilde's comment about America - 'Two nations divided by a common language!'

#833 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:24

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


You're right, Gregor, I must be more cautious - I often think of Oscar Wilde's comment about America - 'Two nations divided by a common language!'


I was more worried about the rest of the world thinking that our best cutaway artist wore fishnet stockings all and every day!!

#834 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:30

Originally posted by alansart
A time before Rotring pens when ruling pens and the humble paintbrush were the tools of the trade. Great to see again :)


Yes Alan, isn't it nice! I was brought up on Rotring pens, though Jim Allington still occasionally used mapping pens, and I tried too, but I didn't really like them. It is all down to what you are used to, and one prerequisite is a steady hand! Although I don't have any examples, I remember finding some Bill Bennet drawings that were done on photographic prints - Laurie Morton, chief photographer at LAT when I joined, told me that he would provide Bill with under-exposed prints which Bill would ink over, then Laurie would bleach out the remaining photo image, leaving pure B/W line work. Perfect for a quick, up-against-a-deadline artwork, and nothing wrong with that.

I was told years ago that Giorgio Piola used a video or digital camera, freeze framed an image on the TV in his hotel room and traced the image onto detail paper. Most Technical Illustration is journalism - get the details, get it right, but bloody fast, we're going to press!

#835 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:30

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Dick Ellis, Marc? When I first looked at the small image I thought the rear tyres were far too small relative to the fronts, but then I remembered that the BT34 was before the explosion in rear tyre dimensions.


Yes Tony, Dick Ellis, didn't it open up full screen in Image Shack when you clicked the thumbnail?
I actually think the fronts are oversized, even having the wrong aspect ratio when compared to the photo to the right above the cutaway.

#836 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:32

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall


I was more worried about the rest of the world thinking that our best cutaway artist wore fishnet stockings all and every day!!


Damn! You've guessed my guilty secret! It's between me and you, right...? Anyway, under overalls they play havoc, brick dust tends to collect... no, I can't go on...Nurse, the Vaseline!

#837 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 18:37

Originally posted by macoran
Yes Tony, Dick Ellis, didn't it open up full screen in Image Shack when you clicked the thumbnail?


Yes, Marc, I forgot the second click! I notice that it says that 'the chassis doesn't have to do any aerodynamic work'! How things have changed!

The one thing that Jim Allington drummed into me as a callow youth was that the wheels had to be right, right aspect ratio, right track, right wheelbase. If you got that wrong the car would never look right. I've just been shouted at by the Child Bride, my supper is ready...

#838 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 20:13

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall


I was more worried about the rest of the world thinking that our best cutaway artist wore fishnet stockings all and every day!!

He does not???? :eek:

Bizarrement, ces anglaises...

#839 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 20:38

Originally posted by fines
He does not???? :eek:

Bizarrement, ces anglaises...


Michael, for generations the sign of a true Englishman was his string vest, along with the obligatory knotted-handkerchief headgear on holiday. The fishnet tights are just an extension of the vest in a Southerly direction, it just happens that they have - how can I put this - more appeal than the upper garment, almost to the point of a fetish. They have their uses, for instance any number of biros can be attached without fear of loss, small food items can be stored with immediate visual location, and they have the almost mythical ability to provide warmth in Winter and coolness in Summer. In short (and that's another subject) not to be sniffed at...

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#840 fines

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 21:30

The only way for an Englishman to shock me is by not being eccentric! :D;) :kiss:

#841 macoran

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 23:28

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


It's not so much the pixel-count Marc, more that I'd like to get a good contrast, sharp black on a pure white. All my B/W stuff has been scanned as grey-scae for the forum because if I try a B/W scan I get all sorts of strange effects. I'm just trying to maximise Bill Bennet's line artwork. I've got all the equipment, it's just that digital doesn't do what I expect it to do, so a steepish learning curve. We will see...


A lot of scanners have a built redundancy program, which, when one sets the scanner settings to B/W, the machine goes into fotocopy mode. I find this often gives strange blotches, even in areas where the original is free of any markings.
I therefore scan all my B/W drawings at full colour settings. Contrast can then be adjusted to blacken the black.

#842 macoran

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 23:48

Originally posted by Tony Matthews

I was told years ago that Giorgio Piola used a video or digital camera, freeze framed an image on the TV in his hotel room and traced the image onto detail paper. Most Technical Illustration is journalism - get the details, get it right, but bloody fast, we're going to press!


Piola would have had to use a technique like that, what with Wednesday deadlines to get Autosport through the presses. I was always surprised that his sketches published in Autosport were never all duplicated in his dutch "Race Report" coverage. So, between the GP weekend and going to press he was doing up to 15 different sketches !!

#843 macoran

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 23:50

Originally posted by fines
The only way for an Englishman to shock me is by not being eccentric! :D;) :kiss:


Hush !! at the Racing Comments place they are on their 9th poll on a(n) eccentric gentleman !!

Edit...hush yourself Marc, you are way too talkative.

#844 markpde

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:00

Originally posted by macoran


Piola would have had to use a technique like that, what with Wednesday deadlines to get Autosport through the presses. I was always surprised that his sketches published in Autosport were never all duplicated in his dutch "Race Report" coverage. So, between the GP weekend and going to press he was doing up to 15 different sketches !!

Something similar applied to Bryan de Grineau and Frederick Gordon Crosby, staff artists for 'The Motor' and 'The Autocar', respectively, in the twenties and thirties. If they'd to illustrate scenes from a race on a Sunday, the problem for de Grineau was that 'The Motor' was published on a Tuesday; 'The Autocar', on the other hand, went out on a Friday, so Crosby, although it was still a rush, had three extra days! They were both wonderful artists, but de Grineau's illustrations were often regarded as 'sketchier' than Crosby's, perhaps at least partly due to the pressure of time.

Crosby and de Grineau are featured here.

Sorry, slightly off-topic, just thought it was relevant to Marc's post.

#845 bradbury west

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:08

[i]Originally posted by macoran
Hush !! at the Racing Comments place they are on their 9th poll on a(n) eccentric gentleman !!
]

That strikes me as being something of a self-fulfilling prophesy
Roger Lund

#846 Odseybod

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:27

Something similar applied to Bryan de Grineau and Frederick Gordon Crosby, staff artists for 'The Motor' and 'The Autocar', respectively, in the twenties and thirties. If they'd to illustrate scenes from a race on a Sunday, the problem for de Grineau was that 'The Motor' was published on a Tuesday; 'The Autocar', on the other hand, went out on a Friday, so Crosby, although it was still a rush, had three extra days! They were both wonderful artists, but de Grineau's illustrations were often regarded as 'sketchier' than Crosby's, perhaps at least partly due to the pressure of time.



Just a small correction, hopefully without taking this even further OT, but The Motor was actually a Wednesday publication, though the complexities of plate-making effectrively meant a Sunday night/wee small hours of Monday morning deadline. Also tough for photographers, of course, who had to get their films back to London, developed and printed after a Sunday race. Journalists had it cushy, 'only' having to write their race report and then telephone it to a secretary in London over a crackly Continental phone line, in time for it to be typed and subbed ahead of the deadline. Wonder how today's laptop-with-WiFi snappers and scribblers would cope?! End of digression.

#847 bradbury west

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 12:57

Well posted , Tony.
Looking through 60's Autosports I have come across cutaways by Robert Roux. They tend to be saloons and more mundane vehicles. Who he?
Roger Lund

#848 macoran

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 23:15

Originally posted by bradbury west

That strikes me as being something of a self-fulfilling prophesy
Roger Lund


It has gone so quiet here I really hope I did not offend.

#849 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:17

Originally posted by macoran


It has gone so quiet here I really hope I did not offend.

Did somebody say something? Ooops, hello Marc!

Robert Roux - I know the name, I have seen a cutaway or two, but all I can visualise is a Mercedes GP car, perhaps an Auto Union - I didn't read Autosport in the '60's, or MN for that matters, so missed his later work. Has anyone a sample?

#850 ibsenop

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 10:25

Robert Roux did Matra cutaways.

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