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#8451 TWest

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:31

I think you present a really good analogy there, Tom. Especially in using that particular example, derived from the 'model making' specialism, and the accompanying notion of the 'cheat'/'cheating' and 'looking down' upon a thing.

As my dad, a draughtsman, who then went on to adopt CAD, basically, in order to feed me and my sister, is prone to suggesting :stoned:, even the process of drawing from life, is essentially one of 'copying', from reality.

As I said above, I still don't know, if it is even appropriate that there should be a hierarchy, a natural 'artistic' food chain of technique or medium as such.

But you sum it up well and with a real-world example, involving an actual process. If you are going to look down, you will occasionally be made to look up. That is the way of the world.


I think that this example, which I had defined many years ago, also applies in other areas. Music goes from those who play classical, or write or compose, then play electric or whatever .. and now people feel like they are doing something playing WIE. The technology makes levels of skill and actual talent much more fuzzy than previously thought. Most people do not know the difference if they can simulate the result with pre-canned whatever (music, art clips ...). Just the dumbing down of anything requiring talent to a certain extent, but there is also a hierarchy to all of this stuff, and we will all fall on that continuum somewhere.
As Nike says ... Just do it.
Tom West

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#8452 IrishMariner

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:42

I am sure that a lot of you in C'awayland have been into building models of some level. This discussion of technique and technology reminds me of what was seen there.
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This became fairly popular so guys started printing out the plans, and the original block and drawing guys looked down on them for "cheating."
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Then, they started producing the kits with the block sort of precut and the plans included in a single package, and the Plan and block guys looked down on them for "cheating."

Tom West


Of course, even in the Balsa-wood days, a good cutaway was helpful. This is from a 1959 issue of 'Model Aircraft' magazine:-

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#8453 IrishMariner

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:46

My earlier post from 'Model Aircraft' magazine was an accidental discovery made whilst digging thru old files for someone. The magazine is the kind of thing that would give James May the vapors :)

Here's a sampling from a few issues.:-

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#8454 IrishMariner

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:49

Here's another few pages from 'Model Aircraft':-

In this instance, it's an article about how one would consider building, from scratch, a model glider.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#8455 Tony Matthews

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 08:12

I would like to point out that this is not me... I may have to adopt Gwendolyn Syrup as a nom de plume if I ever take the plunge!

http://www.paintings...st/tonymatthews

#8456 Tony Matthews

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 08:42

Posted Image Posted Image


Edited by Tony Matthews, 23 March 2011 - 08:44.


#8457 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 13:27

I came across this on a spares site
Ford 105E.
Posted Image
Reliant Sabra
This is from Autosport, duly recognised for copyright etc.
Posted Image
Lenham healey
This is in this month’s Classic Cars, duly recognised
Posted Image
All copyrights recognised
Roger Lund


#8458 JoeKane

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 15:55

:) I do believe my cutaway folder may now be empty! :eek:

Gosh I'm sorry to hear that as I continue to enjoy the contents of said folder.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Joe

#8459 werks prototype

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 17:34

Gosh I'm sorry to hear that as I continue to enjoy the contents of said folder.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Joe


:up: It is true, it genuinely is. I shall continue to enjoy the thread though. I happen to know that Tom has some particularly tasty stuff lined up, I anticipate with great excitement the Race Car Engineer material! Ibsen will continue to pluck colourful gems from the ether as it were and Marc will pull out the rarest print variation known to man. And every now and then Roger will come up with something that no one even knew existed, to the extent that it typically results in the introduction of a completely new manufacturer/marque to the list. :)

I'll keep 'me' eye out for new material though!  ;) :up:

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#8460 TWest

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 19:29

:up: It is true, it genuinely is. I shall continue to enjoy the thread though. I happen to know that Tom has some particularly tasty stuff lined up, I anticipate with great excitement the Race Car Engineer material! Ibsen will continue to pluck colourful gems from the ether as it were and Marc will pull out the rarest print variation known to man. And every now and then Roger will come up with something that no one even knew existed, to the extent that it typically results in the introduction of a completely new manufacturer/marque to the list. :)

I'll keep 'me' eye out for new material though!  ;) :up:



Have not found those RaceCar Engineering issues, but do have a full box of the Air Internationals sitting here. Interesting material there, especially if you are into the aircraft. Have to get back to some more cars, but I do have a few of the planes scanned, just have a bit of assembly to do yet. Should be good stuff.
Look forward to everyone's new material.
Tom West

#8461 macoran

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 19:36

I came across this on a spares site
Ford 105E.
Posted Image
Roger Lund


Roger, which site was that on? I've got to see if I can pinch a larger shot

#8462 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 21:31

Not sure why it came out cropped
http://www.fordangli...o.uk/spares.htm
RL

#8463 Tony Matthews

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 21:45

I came across this on a spares site
Ford 105E.
Posted Image
Reliant Sabra
This is from Autosport, duly recognised for copyright etc.
Posted Image
Lenham healey
This is in this month’s Classic Cars, duly recognised
Posted Image
All copyrights recognised
Roger Lund

Three interesting illustrations, Roger, although I think the Reliant Sabre relied on a substantial amount of imagination.

#8464 bradbury west

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 22:24

I think this came from Autosport. The little Maserati transverse V12 1.5litre for the 1961 formula 1 regs with integral gearbox, the concept showing shades of the Bugatti T251 and anticipating the Honda 2 or 3 years later.
Posted Image
Roger Lund


#8465 10kDA

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 23:38

Perhaps there is a parallel in the attitude of classical musicians to the world of rock 'n' roll! Some years ago George Martin recorded 'proper' musicians playing Beatles numbers - when David Williams tried to play one of George Harrisons solos he was completely flummoxed, just couldn't get it, so George H was asked to help. His response was that it was simple, just re-tune the guitar like so... There was once a series of programmes featuring Stephane Grappelli and Yehudi Menuhin, YM enthusiastically fiddling gipsy-influenced jazz. Embarrassing. Willie Nelson and Julio Iglesias, anyone? I'm not a Willie Nelson fan but please! It's different, it's not better.

Most modern art leaves me cold, not because it is 'difficult', 'intellectual' or 'not what I like', but because mostly it is pretentious rubbish, part of a scam to make a lot of money by flogging the Emporor's Clothes to death. Artists, dealers and critics work hand-in-hand to milk the easily-impressed wealthy who wish, in turn, to impress. How many times do you hear that stock phrase from art critics - "I think what the artist is trying to say...". Well, try a bit harder, chum. David Hockney is one of the few current artists that I really like, his approach is invigorating, the finished work captivating and, for me, moving. Lucien Freud is more than competent, and has produced some terrific work - but he's a one-trick poney.

The point is that there are many illustrators who are better at drawing and painting than many 'artists', and who are not concerened that their work is commissioned for commercial purposes. Quite how that is different from a crude, multi-million pound/dollar sculpture commissioned by a large bank to erect on their fore-court I cannot see. I appreciate that drawing and painting skills do not have much bearing on what is art, and art, or Art, has moved on from a mix of skill and imagination to more pure intellectualising, but it doesn't prevent a lot of it being grim.

I have some sympathy with the view that grinding your own pigments may have little to do with the intended profesional career path, but surely it doesn't hurt to know, it doesn't waste years of your life, and if similar groundwork is left out of other courses there is an outcry. Like the measuring-point perspective, you'll probably never use it, but it doesn't hurt, in fact it can help, to have learned it.

I want to paint, not because I want to be known as, or think of myself as, a Fine Artist - I just want to paint, probably landscapes more than anything, because if you have an artistic, creative temperament that is not given some freedom, I don't think you can ever be truly happy. Well, happy is probably not the right word, but happier than otherwise. To my mind true artists appreciate artistic endevour in every walk of life, not just their own narrow field.


Well said, Tony. As an artist and musician as well as a former racer and still a motorsports enthusiast, I have to say my piece here too. We may be off topic, but you guys started it. :cool:

As an example, many times I have both seen and been on the receiving end of musical elitism, usually coming from a "schooled" musician who feels a compulsion to demonstrate technique and/or knowledge. Some of the finest musicians I know are also some of the poorest technicians, in that they connect directly to their own essences to relate what is inside in musical form. Right now I'm working as one-half of a duo with a wonderful young woman, entirely self-taught (as am I), who has a very basic and limited command of her instruments. Yet she writes some kick-ass songs because she knows how to consistently find the perfect melody and harmony to showcase her voice and her lyrics without worrying about what is acceptable to the musical academicians, and has not had the filter (read: limitation) of formal training applied to her creative process. Is someone like this not an artist? When moved, if we can make the movement real to others, we have succeeded in bringing a portion of our souls into perceptability. To me that is the definition of Art.

I do not perceive the soul in color field work, nor in much of the electronically produced music that is becoming more and more commonly heard. Maybe the artist will say it's there but if I can't find it, I pass.

And, yes, more than one of my own compositions has stumped more than one trained musician.

Thanks,

Chris

#8466 smarjoram

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 10:03

It's only proper art if you wear a smock and beret while making it.


#8467 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 17:17

It's only proper art if you wear a smock and beret while making it.

I wear very little else - day or night. Oh, plus the Wellingtons. Thanks to Chris 10kDa for at least one response to my rant. OTT, I admit, but I do get a little tired of other people setting out the exact parameters for an art, neatly excluding everything bar their own discipline. I was thinking of deleting the post, but I can't now...

#8468 werks prototype

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 17:23

I admit, but I do get a little tired of other people setting out the exact parameters for an art, neatly excluding everything bar their own discipline. I was thinking of deleting the post, but I can't now...


Quite! So you will embrace the CAD aesthetic from now on then, Tony?

;) :up:



#8469 werks prototype

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 17:38

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=4427048

There is some rather nifty work (I only discovered this recently) above. Particularly the FW-14B. I don't think the member has posted for a while though.

#8470 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 17:47

Quite! So you will embrace the CAD aesthetic from now on then, Tony?

;) :up:

I have never said that Illustration is art, and CAD is another form of illustration - however, I still have preferences, and aesthetic judgement. I have a CAD engineering drawing of the Ferrari F2000 gearbox, and it is fascinating. I also have many drawings done by engineers who used pencils on film. I know which ones I prefer to look at. Fine Artists do not have a monopoly in appreciation of line quality.

#8471 werks prototype

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 18:08

I have never said that Illustration is art, and CAD is another form of illustration - however, I still have preferences, and aesthetic judgement. I have a CAD engineering drawing of the Ferrari F2000 gearbox, and it is fascinating. I also have many drawings done by engineers who used pencils on film. I know which ones I prefer to look at. Fine Artists do not have a monopoly in appreciation of line quality.


I know. :up: I'm just comparing and contrasting the idea of the classical illustrator looking down on the contemporary computer illustrator with an example from my own experience of the Fine Artist, looking down on illustration in general.

I think it just comes down to the insecurity or ego of the particular individual, and whether or not they wish to suggest or perpetuate their specialism above all others.

I agree, preference does thankfully cut through any notion of there being a hierarchy. But then (you probably know what I am going to say now) we end up back at that old cliche 'I don't know about art, but I know what I like'.



#8472 werks prototype

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 18:18

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#8473 tbolt

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 19:09

Two Schneider Trophy winners.
Top 1928 Supermarine S-5 by S.W. Clatworthy

Bottom 1931 Supermarine S6B by G. H. Davis

Posted Image

Posted Image

#8474 IrishMariner

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 19:12

Two Schneider Trophy winners.
Top 1928 Supermarine S-5 by S.W. Clatworthy

Bottom 1931 Supermarine S6B by G. H. Davis


Thank you! Very nice.

Where are they from (if you don't object to my asking, of course)?

The combination of watercolouring and annotation makes it look as if Bob Freeman and SMarjoram had a baby!

Edited by IrishMariner, 24 March 2011 - 19:15.


#8475 mariner

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 19:51

Here is a surprise. It is in an article about eight speed autos so it is very much up to date.

http://www.freep.com.....ext|Auto News

What is surprising is that a real artist has his name on the drawing and ( to my unskilled eye) it looks as if a person drew it.


Anybody know of the credited person ( David Kimble) - yesIi know he was the fugitive....

#8476 tbolt

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 20:30

[quote name='IrishMariner' date='Mar 24 2011, 19:12' post='4909141']
Thank you! Very nice.

Where are they from (if you don't object to my asking, of course)?

Popular Mechanics, and if anyone is interested the is a copy of the November 1963 edition with
Spirit of America by W.A. Moore and a feature on "The Husler" jet boat, on ebay


#8477 macoran

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 20:31

David Janssen played Dr. Richard Kimble in the tv series The Fugitive in the 60's

David Kimble, the cutaway artist........ has been discussed a few times on this board

You'll find the complete drawing signed by him on page 166

5 page biography on page 160

Edited by macoran, 24 March 2011 - 20:43.


#8478 JoeKane

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 20:45

Anybody know of the credited person ( David Kimble) - yesIi know he was the fugitive....

Hi Mariner,
Thank you for posting the link.
Skip back to page 161 for a profile of David Kimble.
Ibsen's index lists quite a few pieces of his work. My own file lists 88 examples of his work.
He is one cutaway artist whose prints are still readily available.
Cheers,
Joe

Edited by JoeKane, 24 March 2011 - 20:47.


#8479 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 22:37

What is surprising is that a real artist has his name on the drawing and ( to my unskilled eye) it looks as if a person drew it.


Anybody know of the credited person ( David Kimble)

Also - http://www.khulsey.c...vid_kimble.html

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#8480 Tony Matthews

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 22:48

I think it just comes down to the insecurity or ego of the particular individual, and whether or not they wish to suggest or perpetuate their specialism above all others.

I agree, preference does thankfully cut through any notion of there being a hierarchy. But then (you probably know what I am going to say now) we end up back at that old cliche 'I don't know about art, but I know what I like'.

I wouldn't criticise anyone for basing their life choices on this simplistic outlook, but I would object to them arguing against anyone else's choice, in the same way that I object to the same attacks from those who are knowledgeable but in a narrow field and are predjudiced, for whatever reason. That doesn't make as much sense as it was supposed too, but a very hard day's physical work followed by a mistake in measuring out the gin earlier means I'm stumbling mentally, if not physically...

#8481 10kDA

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 00:03

Two Schneider Trophy winners.
Top 1928 Supermarine S-5 by S.W. Clatworthy

Bottom 1931 Supermarine S6B by G. H. Davis


Great images of great airplanes! Hollow pressed steel spars... Now I've got a pretty good idea how they hid the flying & landing wire terminals.

Chris


#8482 10kDA

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 00:09

I agree, preference does thankfully cut through any notion of there being a hierarchy. But then (you probably know what I am going to say now) we end up back at that old cliche 'I don't know about art, but I know what I like'.


"If it sounds good, it IS good."

-Duke Ellington

It follows, then, that if it looks good, it IS good. If it doesn't look good, I'm free to dislike it. Break it gently to the elitists and critics - Subjectivity rules!

Chris

#8483 werks prototype

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:00

I'll tell em, Chris!

But, in fairness, I think you might have missed the gist of the early stage of the discussion. Particularly regarding the vagaries of elitism. :up:

#8484 smarjoram

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:29

I wear very little else - day or night. Oh, plus the Wellingtons. Thanks to Chris 10kDa for at least one response to my rant. OTT, I admit, but I do get a little tired of other people setting out the exact parameters for an art, neatly excluding everything bar their own discipline. I was thinking of deleting the post, but I can't now...


I didn't see it as a rant at all - you just put it into them words better than what i could've did done.

Interestingly I went through a similar thing here at Aardman. I now do predominantly computer animation but did start my career doing traditional drawn and model animation. When I joined Aardman 11 years ago there were about 5 of us in the CGI department and it was very much a traditional crafty, hand made place with hardly a computer in sight. Some people didn't think we would fit in, some were worried we'd take their jobs. It fell to us to show that done the right way you could make computer animation with all the warmth and charm of plasticine. Also we showed that it was just another tool - some jobs are better done one way and some are better done the other.

Mostly I find we need to rough things up a bit. Computers are great at building perfect, symmetrical models but for a character to have warmth and charm you need to build in some imperfections - add some lumps and bumps, get rid of the symmetry, make one eye a tad bigger than the other perhaps. You're basically building in the little imperfections that would happen if it were made by hand rather than by a computer. Often I'll build a model directly over a thumbnail drawing - that way you get all the quirkiness of the sketch in the model. When it comes to the animation again it's important not to let the computer do too much - otherwise you get that floaty cg look. We basically apply all the same rules to cg as we do to model animation.

(I'm not sure how your work fits in though - it looks bloody perfect to me but at the same time it has a hand-done warmth and flair. I'll just file you in the 'insane genius' category along with Bob Freeman - some people are just in a class by themselves and normal rules don't apply.)

#8485 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 13:19

Interestingly I went through a similar thing here at Aardman. I now do predominantly computer animation but did start my career doing traditional drawn and model animation. When I joined Aardman 11 years ago there were about 5 of us in the CGI department and it was very much a traditional crafty, hand made place with hardly a computer in sight. Some people didn't think we would fit in, some were worried we'd take their jobs. It fell to us to show that done the right way you could make computer animation with all the warmth and charm of plasticine. Also we showed that it was just another tool - some jobs are better done one way and some are better done the other.

Mostly I find we need to rough things up a bit. Computers are great at building perfect, symmetrical models but for a character to have warmth and charm you need to build in some imperfections - add some lumps and bumps, get rid of the symmetry, make one eye a tad bigger than the other perhaps. You're basically building in the little imperfections that would happen if it were made by hand rather than by a computer. Often I'll build a model directly over a thumbnail drawing - that way you get all the quirkiness of the sketch in the model. When it comes to the animation again it's important not to let the computer do too much - otherwise you get that floaty cg look. We basically apply all the same rules to cg as we do to model animation.

Very interseting, smarj, although you are too kind re my work. I am not using Google here, so please bare with me on accuracy, but was it not "Chicken Run" that was completely computer-generated, and was it not deemed that it did not have the 'soul' of previous, Plasticene films? I hear what you say about programming in the looseness and roughness of hand-made images, and with regard to engineering drawings, I assume it would be possible to incorporate a 'hand-drawn' feel to the software. However, no drawing office manager would be interested...

I have recently been cleaning up digitized Penske trannies for a possible project, and this has meant looking at some areas in large magnifications. Quite interesting, as it no longer looks like my work at all, although I can remember doing it. I'll have a go at posting a section - you will see (I hope) that the style looks much more 'painterly' than at the usual scale, so it might possibly be more acceptable to some...

#8486 werks prototype

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 13:32

you need to build in some imperfections - add some lumps and bumps, get rid of the symmetry,


Zbrush?

#8487 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 13:44

Posted Image

That's about 3x life-size, and looks like I wanted my work to look, all those years ago when my first attempt at colour was dismissed as 'just a photograph!' Trouble is, unless it is enlarged, rather than reduced, it looses this effect...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 25 March 2011 - 13:48.


#8488 Tony Matthews

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 13:49

Euw! That smells like rabbit glue being sanded! Shut that door!

#8489 werks prototype

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 13:49

(Dont panic) My last thoughts on the notion of there being a hierarchy of technique or medium. :up:

I think, if there is a perceived hierarchy, then when the denigrater becomes the victim, said 'victim' can be compelled toward even more extreme forms of denigration.

Where typically, each 'specialism' plays the 'victim' of the one 'above', whilst denigrating the one 'below'. Or vice-versa.

Thus the perceived hierarchy can be perpetuated.

Anyway, I've got copius amounts of Rabbit-skin glue to sand! :up:  ;)

#8490 Motocar

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:16

Drawing the S6 light modification

Posted Image

Success


#8491 f1steveuk

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:36

S5, it has a Napier Broad Arrow, S6 had a Rolls-Royce R Type (V12), but still, lovely drawings

#8492 IrishMariner

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:53

That's about 3x life-size, and looks like I wanted my work to look, all those years ago when my first attempt at colour was dismissed as 'just a photograph!' Trouble is, unless it is enlarged, rather than reduced, it looses this effect...


You see, as someone who's living is made modelling aircraft parts, this kind of thing impresses the hell out of me. Having to perfectly capture a precise item - the car, its mechanicals and its livery (the GE logo especially) - but also to render it that artistically. By hand! Incredible.

We've seen work here in this thread from artist-illustrators that've used both manual and computer-aided methods. The talent is the same...yet the appeal of the result differs.

#8493 smarjoram

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 17:05

Very interseting, smarj, although you are too kind re my work. I am not using Google here, so please bare with me on accuracy, but was it not "Chicken Run" that was completely computer-generated, and was it not deemed that it did not have the 'soul' of previous, Plasticene films? I hear what you say about programming in the looseness and roughness of hand-made images, and with regard to engineering drawings, I assume it would be possible to incorporate a 'hand-drawn' feel to the software. However, no drawing office manager would be interested...

I have recently been cleaning up digitized Penske trannies for a possible project, and this has meant looking at some areas in large magnifications. Quite interesting, as it no longer looks like my work at all, although I can remember doing it. I'll have a go at posting a section - you will see (I hope) that the style looks much more 'painterly' than at the usual scale, so it might possibly be more acceptable to some...


You can definitely see the painterly strokes when it's blown up like that. Great stuff.

Actually Chicken Run was plasticine/model animation. It was Aardman's first feature and they were a bit worried that the usual standard of smoothness used on Wallace and Gromit (which was mainly for TV) wouldn't be good enough for the big screen. So they went to incredible lengths to smooth out every fingerprint and to make the animation super-smooth too. The end result was that it was a bit like CG. The first job I was given when I joined was to copy a scene from the film in CG to see if it could be done - because of the smoothness it was pretty easy. Looking back at Chicken Run they realised that it had lost some of the charm through being too polished and on Curse of the Were-Rabbit they deliberately left the fingerprints in again - and it was better for it. It's nice to be able to see what something is made of and also that someone has made it with their hands.

The CG feature was Flushed Away - it was made in America in collaboration with Dreamworks - it wasn't always a happy partnership - but I thought the end result was pretty good and still felt like an Aardman film. Personally, I think we're probably still finding our feet a bit when it comes to CG features. We haven't got a big enough department to make them here in the UK so it's always a partnership with someone else. Also, it's still quite a new technology, which is constantly changing - we haven't had as much practise as with the Plasticine.

Anyway, getting a bit off topic - so here's a cutaway...
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#8494 TWest

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 19:25

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That's about 3x life-size, and looks like I wanted my work to look, all those years ago when my first attempt at colour was dismissed as 'just a photograph!' Trouble is, unless it is enlarged, rather than reduced, it looses this effect...


Well, damn ... ya think???
This is what I was looking at on the prints, obviously downsized, of your work. I am not sure that I ever replaced you as my favorite illustrator because of exactly this kind of thing. Thanks for the upsized representation, reinforces my, and everyone else's, respect for your work.
Tom West

#8495 macoran

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 20:43

A superhot Audi 80 GTE ,German Group 2 Touring Car series, run by Harald Ertl and Hans Joachim Nowak

As run in Der Grosse Preis der Tourenwagen , Nurburgring Nordschleiffe 10/7/1977

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from the hand of Bruno Betti

Edited by macoran, 25 March 2011 - 20:50.


#8496 CVA

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 07:28

a replacement of the lola mk6 gt by Vic Berris posted earlier page 47
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#8497 CVA

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 07:42

A superhot Audi 80 GTE ,German Group 2 Touring Car series, run by Harald Ertl and Hans Joachim Nowak

As run in Der Grosse Preis der Tourenwagen , Nurburgring Nordschleiffe 10/7/1977

Posted Image

from the hand of Bruno Betti

Thank's Marc for your last sending ,but is it possible to have the audi 80 gte in a bigger size?
Same question for the porsche carrera 6 and the lotus 47 posted earlier

#8498 CVA

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 07:52

2 Lofthouse and 2 lotus
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#8499 paulhooft

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 12:10

Drawing the S6 light modification

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Success


Great drawing, but a pity that the text is only partly readable..
Paul

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#8500 macoran

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 12:27

Thank's Marc for your last sending ,but is it possible to have the audi 80 gte in a bigger size?
Same question for the porsche carrera 6 and the lotus 47 posted earlier

No problem, I have PM'd you