# The cutaway drawing and its artists

13746 replies to this topic

### #8701 CVA

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 20:18

Well done CVA! You too deserve a cigar! When do we get the champagne?

Thank you for the cigar,the champagne follows by mail

### #8702 Robbie693

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:20

Hi All, sorry if I'm going back a bit but I'm playing catch up and wanted to pick up on a few things..

Ralph,

This how I've always done it (and still do even on the computer) in 2 point perspective (and at a bit of an acute angle).

Put in my vanishing points and draw my sphere where axis A, B & C dissect. Draw an ellipse, inside the sphere on Axis A. You can check the ellipse is correct by drawing 2 vertical lines. The points where they touch the outside of the ellipse should align with Axis C.

Draw an ellipse on Axis B. The ellipse should dissect the first ellipse on Axis C.

Draw an ellipse on Axis C. The ellipse should dissect the others as shown.

All other ellipses and dimensions can be projected from this.

Cheers,

Alan

Thanks very much from me too Alan - I've heard mention of this sphere method but never knew what it was. My college course, I'm increasingly becoming aware, was crap. I learnt more teaching myself afterwards than whilst there. I've tried this sphere thing out and can tell it's going to be very useful. Well it will be if I find some more work! Cheers.

### #8703 Robbie693

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:21

Both were manufactured by The Lietz Company:

#1958 Lietz Ellipse Wheel (sort of a slide rule for ellipse selection)

#3911-46 Lietz Isometric Ellipse Protractor

Do I need these, no, I just covet them.

Ralph Stevens

Ralph, I have never heard of these things, could I trouble you to put up a picture of them as they sound very interesting and I have found nothing on the web?

### #8704 Robbie693

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:21

a Bubble car is the best cure for the blues yet invented.

This should make you laugh then, if you've bot seen it already:
Isetta on the move

### #8705 Robbie693

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:22

Big Boss: Agreed. Can we have it by the end of the week!

Me:

sounds all too familiar!

### #8706 alansart

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 16:42

Hi All, sorry if I'm going back a bit but I'm playing catch up and wanted to pick up on a few things..

Thanks very much from me too Alan - I've heard mention of this sphere method but never knew what it was. My college course, I'm increasingly becoming aware, was crap. I learnt more teaching myself afterwards than whilst there. I've tried this sphere thing out and can tell it's going to be very useful. Well it will be if I find some more work! Cheers.

I was lucky. My college course was very good, but it's only a start. You never stop learning

### #8707 rwstevens59

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 17:23

Ralph, I have never heard of these things, could I trouble you to put up a picture of them as they sound very interesting and I have found nothing on the web?

Robbie693,

I have just received the isometric protractor this week in like new condition. I am still waiting for the ellipse wheel from Australia.

I will post photos of both when the ellipse wheel arrives.

Ralph

### #8708 rwstevens59

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 18:23

Robbie693,

I decided to scan what I have and not wait for the Ellipse Wheel to arrive. Could be a while.

Edited by rwstevens59, 16 April 2011 - 18:24.

### #8709 smarjoram

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 20:20

Hi All, sorry if I'm going back a bit but I'm playing catch up and wanted to pick up on a few things..

Thanks very much from me too Alan - I've heard mention of this sphere method but never knew what it was. My college course, I'm increasingly becoming aware, was crap. I learnt more teaching myself afterwards than whilst there. I've tried this sphere thing out and can tell it's going to be very useful. Well it will be if I find some more work! Cheers.

This might be a silly question but, how do you know which degree of elipse to use for the first one? Do you just eyeball it so it looks right?

### #8710 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 21:05

This might be a silly question but, how do you know which degree of elipse to use for the first one? Do you just eyeball it so it looks right?

That is not a silly question, smarj, and I'm waiting to see what the respons is!

### #8711 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 21:08

I decided to scan what I have and not wait for the Ellipse Wheel to arrive. Could be a while.

I have absolutely no use for these - but I WANT them!

### #8712 rwstevens59

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 21:18

I have absolutely no use for these - but I WANT them!

Always a pleasure to know another tool and instrument 'addict'. To my knowledge it is incurable!

### #8713 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 21:21

To my knowledge it is incurable!

Do we care? No!

### #8714 macoran

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 23:34

Quiz question

Who is the artist ?

I find it'is a bit different to his usual style, so I have mucked up his signature
Who do you think ?

Edited by macoran, 17 April 2011 - 13:19.

### #8715 Cam2InfoNeeded

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 02:28

Quiz question

Who is the artist ?

I find it'is a bit different to his usual style, so I have mucked up his signature
Who do you think ?

Any chance of seeing this one in a higher resolution?

### #8716 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 06:34

Any chance of seeing it without the blacked-out sig?

### #8717 Robbie693

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:30

Lotus cutaways

Fortunately most are credited (pet hate when they aren't), lots of Jim Allington and a few Tony Matthews although one or two are poor reproductions. Not sure if they are all already posted here but it's nice to see that there is another audience for this stuff outside of here.

Robbie

### #8718 Robbie693

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:32

Robbie693,

I decided to scan what I have and not wait for the Ellipse Wheel to arrive. Could be a while.

That's genius! Thanks very much Ralph - I think I want one too! Not sure if I fully understand how it works, I'll have to read the instructions again.

Cheers

Robbie

### #8719 Robbie693

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:34

I was lucky. My college course was very good, but it's only a start. You never stop learning

Indeed - I've learnt quite a lot this week in fact!

Cheers

Robbie

### #8720 macoran

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 11:12

Lotus cutaways

Robbie

Hmmm wonder where they got them from, I recognize at least 10 which I reworked and posted here

### #8721 macoran

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 11:15

Any chance of seeing it without the blacked-out sig?

Oh ! but of course Tony, but I want you to have a go guessing first.
By that I mean your guess will not be just that, but a knowlegeable answer based on study of style
and the keen-eye of an expert.

or is it really knowledgeable ?

Edited by macoran, 17 April 2011 - 11:20.

### #8722 macoran

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 12:05

Any chance of seeing this one in a higher resolution?

I've replaced it with a better copy

### #8723 fnqvmuch

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 12:22

I've replaced it with a better copy

game over, then ... who won - 'imself?

Edited by fnqvmuch, 17 April 2011 - 12:23.

### #8724 macoran

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 13:19

game over, then ... who won - 'imself?

Oeff!

### #8725 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 13:29

Oh ! but of course Tony, but I want you to have a go guessing first.

I was hoping you'd let me cheat!

By that I mean your guess will not be just that, but a knowlegeable answer based on study of style
and the keen-eye of an expert.

or is it really knowledgeable ?

You're asking me how to spell?

### #8726 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 17:10

That's genius! Thanks very much Ralph - I think I want one too! Not sure if I fully understand how it works, I'll have to read the instructions again.

Cheers

Robbie

Robbie,

What I have shown is only the cover sheet of a five page instruction sheet for the isometric protractor. Bear in mind it is strictly for use with isometric drawing but it sure does speed up selecting and drawing compound angels and ellipses on compound planes in isometric. I've had an isometric protractor for years made by Timely Templates. But it is just that a protractor, and does not indicate the proper ellipses to use. Timely puts out a book 'Illustrators Ellipse Tips' which explains in detail how to choose the correct compound angle ellipses in an isometric drawing. Also the protractor was only for 180 deg. not the full 360 deg. isometric circle. That is why I have always coveted the Leitz version. Mind you this is more for draftsman like me and not the true illustrators on this forum.

The second device I have never used and am impatiently waiting for it to arrive by post. The Ellipse Wheel is a circular slide rule device to help in selecting ellipses for all three planes based on the angle of your baselines to the respective vanishing points. Anything that has a finite scale for perspective drawing is going to, in my mind, limit the number of views you can create, whereas if you work as our fine group of illustrators on this forum do, you are more free to select a view by eye and than fit your correct ellipse to that view. As Tom West has pointed out this is where the 'real talent' of say a Tony Matthews, Alan and Tim comes into play (I include Tom West as well but he will probably protest :-)).

Ralph

Edited by rwstevens59, 17 April 2011 - 17:16.

### #8727 alansart

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 17:27

This might be a silly question but, how do you know which degree of elipse to use for the first one? Do you just eyeball it so it looks right?

Good question. It's easy if working from a photograph as you can take it from that. If working from drawings or a model I often did a quick sketch to get a rough idea of how it would look like and use that as a guide for the ellipses and vanishing points. It was best to get the rough outline of the main parts in asap to be sure they could all be seen. Nothing worse than having to start again when halfway through it!

### #8728 macoran

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 17:28

John Hostler's Panther 6

Compare to Laurie Watt's rendering on page 142

### #8729 ibsenop

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 19:10

Web find.

BMW Isetta 1959 by unknown artist.

### #8730 NPP

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 20:13

... compound angels ...

now that is something I's like to hear more about ...

### #8731 rwstevens59

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 20:47

now that is something I's like to hear more about ...

Ha Ha Ha Oops...so much for proofreading!

Edited by rwstevens59, 17 April 2011 - 20:48.

### #8732 TWest

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:45

Tom,
This is a new scan of the old magazine. The old scanner was crap. The new (not so new today) is far better with sharp scanned images.
I put, like Macoran does, a sheet of black plastic behind the magazine page to avoid the shadow of the letters in the background.
Ibsen

Ibsen, whatever you did, it is working well now. Like the change.
Tom West

### #8733 TWest

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:52

That's a screenshot of a CATIA V5 assembly. CATIA is becoming the de-facto CAD software for large enterprises (think Boeing, Airbus, etc).
As an aside, CATIA was blamed for one of the Airbus A380's initial delays as different partner countries (Germany, France and UK) were using 3 different systems (CATIA V4, V5 and CADDS5) and some engineering intent was lost as a result.

It is a cracking picture, so thanks for posting it, Simplebrother. A very poignant posting, I think, as it illustrates perfectly how an image of the structure of a vehicle can be obtained easily these days from CAD. In the 2D days....a cutaway would be needed.

I certainly did not intend to imply that this V5 illustration was not pertinent to what we have going here. I enjoy seeing some of this New World stuff coming out, and enjoy hearing that someone is familiar with the later programs. I think that all of this split-build stuff, as significant as it can be, is more problem than anyone credits in causing potential faults/delays/problems in a program as complex as building an A380.
It is of interest that I am still able to get my stat negs done from a group that has a contract with Boeing, previously the McD-D group here in Southern California. I guess that they have a lot of companies that have not transitioned completely for QC purposes and keeps the negs going on a regular basis. I might be one of their few customers other than that, and, were it not for the SoCal Boeing group, they would not be supporting the stat room as part of the business.
Tom West

### #8734 TWest

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:57

Robbie693,

I decided to scan what I have and not wait for the Ellipse Wheel to arrive. Could be a while.

Wow, I have those in the drawer here somewhere and have never used the things. Thanks for bringing me up to date on the technology ...
Tom West

### #8735 TWest

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:00

Do we care? No!

Remember that we are all sufferers from CDA in some form or other. If you don't have about 200 curves or guides, but only use about five on a regular basis .. you probably have CDA. If you have to pick up everything that looks like it would be a drawing instrument, you probably have CDA.
Welcome to the group ...
Tom West

### #8736 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:38

Thanks for bringing me up to date on the technology ...

Occupants of that grey, tedious world outside Cutawayland have no idea of the rapid change in high-tech materials and processes that we enjoy in this sun-lit meadow. Coming soon, a comprehensive review of the eraser/rubber, from the fist-full of natural latex, via the kneadable eraser, the plastic, abrasive (medium and hard), the electric eraser, the idiosyncratic 'Cow bogie', the Paasche Air Eraser, the Eraser Shield and scalpel to anti-bleed paint and Tipex! Don't fail to miss this 96-part series, accompanied by a leather-bound coffee-table tome and box set of Bluray discs...

### #8737 tbolt

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 07:21

Is there a free eraser with issue 1 ?

### #8738 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:46

What do you want, t, blood?

### #8739 Robbie693

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 13:08

Robbie,

What I have shown is only the cover sheet of a five page instruction sheet for the isometric protractor. Bear in mind it is strictly for use with isometric drawing but it sure does speed up selecting and drawing compound angels and ellipses on compound planes in isometric. I've had an isometric protractor for years made by Timely Templates. But it is just that a protractor, and does not indicate the proper ellipses to use. Timely puts out a book 'Illustrators Ellipse Tips' which explains in detail how to choose the correct compound angle ellipses in an isometric drawing. Also the protractor was only for 180 deg. not the full 360 deg. isometric circle. That is why I have always coveted the Leitz version. Mind you this is more for draftsman like me and not the true illustrators on this forum.

The second device I have never used and am impatiently waiting for it to arrive by post. The Ellipse Wheel is a circular slide rule device to help in selecting ellipses for all three planes based on the angle of your baselines to the respective vanishing points. Anything that has a finite scale for perspective drawing is going to, in my mind, limit the number of views you can create, whereas if you work as our fine group of illustrators on this forum do, you are more free to select a view by eye and than fit your correct ellipse to that view. As Tom West has pointed out this is where the 'real talent' of say a Tony Matthews, Alan and Tim comes into play (I include Tom West as well but he will probably protest :-)).

Ralph

Thanks Ralph, I didn't realise it was only for Isometric but I can see now how it works. I've never done any isometric work, never been asked to either, and this was something else that was not covered on my TI course . The ellipse wheel sounds like it could be useful though and I'd be interested to see it when you get it. I am often asked to trace products from photographs and then construct other products from the same angle so an ellipse calculator may help there a bit.

One is restricted to a certain extent anyway by using ellipse templates as they come in 5 degree increments, unless you start constructing your own, which I do occasionally but anything that slows me down (such as constructing ellipses) is restricting in it's own right! I find the ellipse templates pretty much cover all the angles I need and with a bit of jiggling (technical term!) I can achieve angles outside of their range. I must get a set that go up to 80deg though as mine stop at 60..

Cheers

Robbie

Edited by Robbie693, 18 April 2011 - 13:16.

### #8740 Robbie693

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 13:12

Occupants of that grey, tedious world outside Cutawayland have no idea of the rapid change in high-tech materials and processes that we enjoy in this sun-lit meadow. Coming soon, a comprehensive review of the eraser/rubber, from the fist-full of natural latex, via the kneadable eraser, the plastic, abrasive (medium and hard), the electric eraser, the idiosyncratic 'Cow bogie', the Paasche Air Eraser, the Eraser Shield and scalpel to anti-bleed paint and Tipex! Don't fail to miss this 96-part series, accompanied by a leather-bound coffee-table tome and box set of Bluray discs...

Hopefully there will be a troubleshooting supplement explaining why Rotring T20's never work!

### #8741 rwstevens59

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 14:03

Wow, I have those in the drawer here somewhere and have never used the things. Thanks for bringing me up to date on the technology ...
Tom West

When the world ends in 2012 I will be clutching my pencil in the belief that if I should somehow survive my pencil and I will rule the earth while any other survivors will be searching for a working iPhone. Outside of my working life I am very happy living here under my rock with my pencil, drawing board and drafting vellum playing with all of my antiques. It may be of no practical use whatsoever, but I am happy!

Anyone know the number of the asylum.

Is it any wonder I keep being ordered to return to step one in the 12 step CDA program. They keep discovering pencil lead on my fingers at every meeting.

Edited by rwstevens59, 18 April 2011 - 14:05.

### #8742 smarjoram

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 17:30

Occupants of that grey, tedious world outside Cutawayland have no idea of the rapid change in high-tech materials and processes that we enjoy in this sun-lit meadow. Coming soon, a comprehensive review of the eraser/rubber, from the fist-full of natural latex, via the kneadable eraser, the plastic, abrasive (medium and hard), the electric eraser, the idiosyncratic 'Cow bogie', the Paasche Air Eraser, the Eraser Shield and scalpel to anti-bleed paint and Tipex! Don't fail to miss this 96-part series, accompanied by a leather-bound coffee-table tome and box set of Bluray discs...

Will there be a double page pull out in the centre pages - perhaps of a Mars Plastic with its wrapper off?

### #8743 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 17:50

Will there be a double page pull out in the centre pages - perhaps of a Mars Plastic with its wrapper off?

You disappoint me, smarge... Actually, it's not such a bad idea. Perhaps we can get Tom West to do the photography! A half-unwrapped Mars leaning provocatively against a stack of ellipse guides, one eyebrow slightly raised, a Mona Lisa-esq half-smile. "You never know when you'll want a rubber!"

### #8744 alansart

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 17:52

Will there be a double page pull out in the centre pages - perhaps of a Mars Plastic with its wrapper off?

A Mars a day helps you work rest and play

### #8745 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 19:39

Didn't do Marianne Faithfull any harm!

### #8746 macoran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 20:05

Tipex!

It is actually Tipp-ex Tony, but what the hell !
More interesting is the story of the voluptuous blonde, posing as a secretary, smearing the monitor
full of Tipp-ex streaks because she didn't know what the backspace button was for !!

### #8747 macoran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 20:09

Don't fail to miss this 96-part series, accompanied by a leather-bound coffee-table tome and box set of Bluray discs...

I wouldn't expect anything less! in Holland publishers d'Agostini also gave a 10% discount if you took out a full term subscription !!

### #8748 Motocar

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 20:10

The Rex Burnnelt Artist of cutaway of magazine Hot Rod, drawing the Davis Dtree wheels car

### #8749 macoran

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 20:11

Hopefully there will be a troubleshooting supplement explaining why Rotring T20's never work!

Will Ibsen be taken on to index the 96 issues ?

### #8750 Tony Matthews

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 20:21

It is actually Tipp-ex Tony, but what the hell !
More interesting is the story of the voluptuous blonde, posing as a secretary, smearing the monitor
full of Tipp-ex streaks because she didn't know what the backspace button was for !!

See, I can't even spell trade names! I wish I had a voluptuous blonde smearing my monitor at this very moment, my back-space button would be a blurr...