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#1201 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 15:41

Fascinating Alan - I wish we'd had that sort of help on every commission! And yes, for those who haven't had the chance of a close look at individual components, they are very small, some ludicrously so, especially when you take into account their function. The clutch is one of the biggest surprises, last time I checked they were down to 100mm diameter, that one looks as if it might be even smaller. The ever-diminishing scale of the bits made it harder to draw and paint them in a whole-car cutaway, and one of the reasons I started to lose interest in F1 as a subject - the technology was either electronic or aero, and what you could see was tidly, and tended to be bland.

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#1202 macoran

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by ibsenop
Sergio Baratto

AutoSprint and various italian magazines.
I think he is italian.

AutoSprint Anno 1979 - Six posters aprox 600x420mm
Ferrari 312 T4 by Sergio Baratto
Lotus 80 by Sergio Baratto
Tyrrell 009 by Sergio Baratto
Ligier JS11 by Sergio Baratto
Williams FW07 by Sergio Baratto
Renault RS10 by E.T.A.I France

AutoSprint Anno 1980 - Six posters aprox 600x420mm
Williams FW07 by Sergio Baratto
Arrows A3 by Sergio Baratto
Alfa Romeo 179 by Sergio Baratto
Lotus 81 by Sergio Baratto
Renault RE20 by Sergio Baratto
Brabham BT49 by Sergio Baratto


Thanks Ibsen :up: I am going to be busy finding his work, so .....see you in a while !

#1203 Ivan

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 23:13

alansart
Honda did an exploded car a year or so ago.

#1204 macoran

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 08:30

Looks like Sergio Baratto is still quite active.
http://www.sergiobaratto.com/

#1205 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 09:06

He's been busy!

#1206 Duc-Man

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 10:42

to DHFiallo: the 956 hangs on, off, at(?) the ceilling to demonstrate groundefect. At 321.4 km/h (200 mph) created the car so much downforce that it could (theoretically) drive downside up.

They are still looking for a road to try it...

#1207 macoran

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 21:07

Sharknose by Serge Bellu
Photgraphed from a two page spread in L'Automobile magazine , so there is some distortion
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#1208 macoran

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Posted 11 April 2009 - 22:33

Michael Stirm rendering of the Auto, Motor und Sport MiG 194
Posted Image
Stirm's drawings frequently appear in AMuS accompanying articles announcing new engines
from German Manufacturers.
He also did a semi-automatic F1 paddle operated gearbox, which should be lying around here
...........somewhere.

#1209 ibsenop

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 00:48

Some Serge Bellu cutaways from L'Automobile - two page size

L'Automobile 374 - August 1977 - Ligier JS7
L'Automobile 390 - December 1978 - Lotus 25
L'Automobile 391 - January 1979 - Matra MS80
L'Automobile 393 - March 1979 - BRM P57
L'Automobile 413 - Novembre 1980 - Williams FW07B
L'Automobile 414 - December 1980 - Renault RE25
L'Automobile 422 - August 1981 - Rondeau M 379 C

Ibsen
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#1210 GIGLEUX

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 09:29

Originally posted by Rancethebus
I remembered last night that I have in my posession, an excelent book entitled The Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-1985 by Doug Nye published by Hazleton. It is full of cutaway drawings of F1 related illustrations. The main reason I puchased it other than covering my favourite era of F1, was because many of Tony's illustrations are within. I have scanned some, unfortunately on an A4 scanner and over the next few days I will upload them to share with you. The first is with this post. It is the Renault V6 1.5 Turbo engine. It is listed as being illustrated by E.T.A.I. France which I believe (I am sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) was the technical offices of Renault. I hope you enjoy them as I upload them.


E.T.A.I.= Etudes Techniques pour l'Automobile et l'Industrie: no direct link with Renault. Independant group specialized in communication. They are also publishers of books.

#1211 macoran

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 14:29

Posted Image
Lawrence Watts Alfa 158/159

Published in the X-RAY SPEC series in Motor Sport July 2003.

#1212 Manel Barů

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:12

Originally posted by macoran
Posted Image
Lawrence Watts Alfa 158/159

Published in the X-RAY SPEC series in Motor Sport July 2003.

Love the fresh, aquarelesque looks yet clear and precisely solved cutaway of one of real motor sport icons.

#1213 DHFiallo

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 19:46

Earlier in this thread Tony posted a drawing of a Nissan R89C; I believe you (Tony)remarked, else where, that you preferred to draw sportscars as they filled the page, so to speak. My question is from what I've seen that you mainly drew open wheeled cars. Is this because there was more sponsor interest in these cars? Is this Nissan the odd drawing of the group c era that you were asked to do, and if so, what others would you wish you had done?
I've always been a much bigger fan of sportscars than of open wheeled cars. I grew up just a few hours from Sebring and have been to those 12 hours since '76. To me a car that can go fast AND do that for hours is a great technical achievement. I'm curious as to you viewpoint.

#1214 Tony Matthews

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 20:48

DHF - invariably I drew cars that I was commissioned to draw, it's as simple as that. There were a few that I did 'on spec', i.e. hoping that they would a) sell or b) create a demand. In a couple of instances I forged a relationship with a team that meant I could ask to 'do' a car and the chances were that, towards the end of the season, I would have permission. Otherwise, without the pressure from a sponsor there was not much chance to get access. When you see the fuss about the Brawn/Toyota/Williams diffusor it is not hard to understand that there has, for a long time, been a degree of paranoia in the engineering staff!

If I had had the chance I would have drawn practically everything! Any competition vehicle interests me, it's just that some have more charisma or 'beauty' or technical intrigue than others. I find it heartening that several people have said how much they liked the Ibec cutaway - it was very interesting to do, not that easy, and was an engrossing little car.

I cannot think of a big sports car that I would not have loved to draw - there, that saves writing a list!

#1215 PeterElleray

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 21:40

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
DHF - When you see the fuss about the Brawn/Toyota/Williams diffusor it is not hard to understand that there has, for a long time, been a degree of paranoia in the engineering staff!


You're quite right. Some years ago i adopted the stance of telling any journo that asked the absolute facts, and offering free access for photgraphy, on the basis that everyone else would think it a bluff and go off in the opposite direction....

#1216 DHFiallo

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 17:32

Thank you for the answer Tony. One of the things that I have found interesting is when a racecar is "retired" and finds its way to the historical races. You can see what all the fuss is about. I remember growing up and being enamored with the 917K and then I got to see one closeup. It wasn't as shocking high tech as I anticipated. I think that much of the secrecy around a current car is a bit extreme. It seems that the amount of secrecy is directly proportional to how fast everyone copies it!

#1217 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 17:50

Originally posted by DHFiallo
It wasn't as shocking high tech as I anticipated.


Yeah, I know what you mean! There is nothing more exciting in my view than a brand new racer, of any type, there is the immediacy of it, the hopes and aspirations riding on it, and your own expectations and the season ahead - stop me, stop me! The historic, or not-quite-historic but no-longer cutting edge vehicles have a different appeal, it may be that it was a personal favourite, or was a championship winner, or a trend setter - but still fascinating to draw and paint. If you've done nothing but slick tyres for a year or two it's great to have some tread to construct, likewise spoked wheels, and so-on. If you like racing cars, you like racing cars, it's that simple to me.

#1218 PeterElleray

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 17:56

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


If you like racing cars, you like racing cars, it's that simple to me.

:up:

#1219 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 18:50

Tony and Peter,

Hi!!
Racing Cars: Ahh..., if you were able to you see them with my eyes...!!!
rgds :clap:

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#1220 Bonde

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 18:57

Originally posted by Tony Matthews:

If you like racing cars, you like racing cars, it's that simple to me.




...agreed, but still some cars and some periods in history make the blood flow faster more than others for most people here, I think. The last time I recall a new F1 car occassioned a "wow!" feeling for me was at the launch of the Ferrari 412T in 1994, since then F1 aesthetics have been on an ever more reclining slope downwards, IMO. The big revolutions are no longer visually appealing, and when they (rarely) happen, it's more due to regulation changes than to bold new innovative strides. Sports prototypes can still give me the "wow!" feeling, though, with at least two of Peter's fairly recent cars in there, more recently the Epsilon Euscadi. Maybe it's just Olde Farteism setting in - when younger the brand new racing cars were the ones that got my juices flowing - now it's mostly revisits of those very same cars! With notable exceptions, of course.



(edtied bceause i sllit carnt' psell)

#1221 Tony Matthews

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 21:01

Originally posted by Bonde
...agreed, but still some cars and some periods in history make the blood flow faster more than others for most people here, I think.



Anders, I didn't mean to give the impression that ALL racing cars are of EQUAL interest to me, obviously some stand out as particular exciting, but believe me, as an illustrator, any racing car is more interesting than a Vauxhall Astra - and yes, I did a cutaway...

#1222 Bonde

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 22:23

Tony,

I do share your sentiment - both with respect to the special appeal of cars built specifically for racing, and with the associated pleasure or otherwise as objects for illustration. I do enjoy your vintage road car cutaways greatly though, for instance your Auburn Speedster and SS 90/100 - okay, they're sports cars of sorts...

I've got a brilliant cutaway of yours a ca. 1981 Dealer Team Vauxhall Chevette rally car from Autosport - did you actually do a later Astra as well?

BTW 1: I've never seen your March-BMW 792 F2 in colour - can you post it?

BTW 2: I noticed on the Sergio Baratto site that his Jaguar D-Type, March-Alfa 711 and Ferrari 312T are viewed from angles remarkably similar to your great cutaways of the same cars. Coincidence? Hardly likely... :

#1223 markpde

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 23:01

I posted Michael Badrocke's Porsche 917K cutaway on page 26, but since DHFiallo mentioned the 917K (any excuse...) :)

Posted Image

Attractive, elegant cutaway, but a curiosity - it's ostensibly 917 053, the magnesium-framed 1971 Le Mans winner, except it isn't. The body is correct, but the innards are wrong. For one thing, there's no roll-over bar behind the cockpit, mandatory on all 1971 917s; for another, to quote Paul Frère in 'The Racing Porsches': 'It will be noted that in addition to its magnesium frame and to its being the only car [of the 1971 Le Mans 917s] using perforated disc brakes front and rear, 917 053 was fitted with many experimental parts including a 55-litre (12 gal) oil tank. The only reason for the latter was that, despite its special Le Mans equipment comprising two generators, two batteries and headlights totalling 310 watts, the car was still underweight [because of its magnesium frame] and the difference up to the regulation 800 kg (1,770 lb) had to be supplied by filling up with oil.' So no perforated (aka 'Gruyère') disc brakes and no 55-litre oil tank - the rear section of 053 can be seen exposed during preparation for the race in this photo.

It's as if the cutaway was copied from an earlier, 'generic' 917 cutaway, then 'clothed' with 053's body - either that or the 917 in the Porsche museum, if that's what the cutaway is taken from, purporting to be 053, isn't... I don't believe that - it could just be that the special features have been stripped from 053, although that wouldn't really explain the absence of the roll-over bar - however the other 'Le Mans winner' (1970) in the Porsche museum is actually 001, previously thought to have been 009, but not the 'real' 023, which exists elsewhere.

I like mysteries! :D

#1224 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 23:47

Originally posted by Bonde
I've got a brilliant cutaway of yours a ca. 1981 Dealer Team Vauxhall Chevette rally car from Autosport - did you actually do a later Astra as well?


Have you not seen my posts above; don't mention the war!!

Tony, you might be in be intersteed to know that Gerry J's headed paper features a minature Chevette cutaway.

#1225 ibsenop

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 00:03

Markpde

Another thing about the 917 cutaway.
Porsche 917-053 didn't have fuel caps at the rear of the front fenders.
If the car have them, the mechanics have to remove the entire nose to access those caps and the nose is non-removable part on "plastic Porsches" in a unit with the chassis. Only 917-010 - Piper car - have the nose in one piece and removable.

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#1226 markpde

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 01:26

Originally posted by ibsenop
Markpde

Another thing about the 917 cutaway.
Porsche 917-053 didn't have fuel caps at the rear of the front fenders.
If the car have them, the mechanics have to remove the entire nose to access those caps and the nose is non-removable part on "plastic Porsches" in a unit with the chassis. Only 917-010 - Piper car - have the nose in one piece and removable.

Ibsenop
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

:up: Well spotted Ibsen - you're right! I noticed them and I knew that the fuel caps sprouted out of the front fenders on the early 917s, but it makes no sense for them to be there when they don't - just proves that the artist has draped 053's body over a 'naked' 1969 or early '70 917. Also scuppers my conspiracy theory about '053' in the Porsche museum being a fake - that made no sense either!

It's a shame, in a way, because it's a nice drawing, but it's wonky, right enough. One thing it does highlight, though, is the absurdity of the 917's layout - all the 'plastic Porsches' had the same wheelbase: 2,300 mm, up until the 917/10, where it was slightly lengthened, then the 917/30 where it was properly lengthened, to 2,500 mm. Helmut Flegl said that when they tested the 'adjustable chassis' 917/10/30, they settled for the middle wheelbase length - 2,500 mm - because it took one working day to construct each one, but he's sure the longest one - 2,600 mm - would have been even better.

#1227 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 08:22

Originally posted by Bonde
Tony,

I do share your sentiment - both with respect to the special appeal of cars built specifically for racing, and with the associated pleasure or otherwise as objects for illustration. I do enjoy your vintage road car cutaways greatly though, for instance your Auburn Speedster and SS 90/100 - okay, they're sports cars of sorts...


The Auburn and SS 100 were commissions - not necessarily a choice - you do what you have to to earn money, and I have never been in the position where I could afford to be too choosey! However, there were aspects of the SS that were interesting from an illustrators viewpoint! Not so much the Auburn...

I've got a brilliant cutaway of yours a ca. 1981 Dealer Team Vauxhall Chevette rally car from Autosport - did you actually do a later Astra as well?

I did the 1980 HSR Chevette, a much better cutaway than the earlier one of the preceding car. Better car, better cutaway...? The Astra was a standard production car, not very interesting, to say the least. All I can remember of that job was having to go to a large, Central London photographic studio to see this exciting new family run-about, with lots of security. The car was set up for a 'moving' shot, involving a recently-developed laser-guided camera tracking system, which meant you could have a speed-blured background and spinning wheels while the car remained pin-sharp from front to back, even though it had only moved about three metres at walking pace.

Unfortunately the model they had hired to be the 'driver' didn't show, and we were all, photographer, assistants and moi, kicking our heels as the hours passed. I was getting twitchy as I couldn't touch the car until the main shot had been taken. Eventually someone said "Sod it, why don't we use the artist?" So I, the said 'artist', had to 'drive' the Astra, and somewhere I have a 10"x8" Polaroid of myself whizzing along at 2 mph, but not even my mother would know it was me as I'm hidden by the 'A' pillar!


BTW 1: I've never seen your March-BMW 792 F2 in colour - can you post it?

I'm trying to locate a 35mm slide of that cutaway - I quite liked it, it was a sharp looking car and the ICI colour-scheme was fair. As soon as, Anders...

BTW 2: I noticed on the Sergio Baratto site that his Jaguar D-Type, March-Alfa 711 and Ferrari 312T are viewed from angles remarkably similar to your great cutaways of the same cars. Coincidence? Hardly likely... :

I haven't seen these yet, but it wouldn't surprise me, a certain Italian illustrator was very happy to use my work as a basis for his, sometimes flopping it over, as if that would fool me! I'm not as green as I'm cabbage-looking, as they say, probably in the Fenlands.



#1228 AVV1

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 14:08

Hello,
has anyone come across some good cutaway drawings of the Ligier JS11 from 1979 and the JS11/15 from 1980.

Thanks
AVV1

#1229 DHFiallo

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 14:28

All this talk about 917's really get me going. Last year Rennsport was held at Daytona and the featured car was the 917. They had at least 30 of them; notably the hippie car and Porsche brought the Pink Pig from their museum. It was amazing. On a side note, I just received a video detailing the early Can Am years. Wow, they were a bit early for me, but I think I would have loved them, and the caliber of drivers!!!

#1230 Duc-Man

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 14:28

About the 917s in the Porsche Museum: I just checked the pictures I took there a couple days ago. None of the 5 917 coupes nor the 917 16 cylinder can-am prototype they have on display has fuel caps in the front fenders.
All of them have one fuel cap behind the drivers door.

#1231 macoran

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 14:39

Betti showing his take on the filler location on Porsche's "Porker"
Posted Image

#1232 Duc-Man

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 15:01

...and he put it at the exactly right spot. That's where the cars in the museum have the filler.

#1233 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 15:39

Originally posted by Duc-Man
About the 917s in the Porsche Museum: I just checked the pictures I took there a couple days ago. None of the 5 917 coupes nor the 917 16 cylinder can-am prototype they have on display has fuel caps in the front fenders.
All of them have one fuel cap behind the drivers door.

Sorry, I was being silly about 053 - the cutaway is evidently a mongrel, although it still looks nice - it's just that I've learned from some of the lads on this forum that 917 chassis are not always what they appear to be, for whatever reason (the 'hippie car' being a prime example!). The position of the fuel caps in the cutaway would have been correct for a 1969 or early '70 917, until Daytona, but not Sebring and not thereafter, although as Ibsen pointed out they would have sprouted out of the front fenders and not been covered over! Marc's posting of the Betti cutaway (the 917/20 is contemporary with 053 - Le Mans 1971) shows there are no fillers behind the front wheels on later 917 configurations, exposed or otherwise. Unfortunately I didn't save the source of the drawing (found it a long while ago), so I don't know where it's from. Maybe just as well, actually. Hope it hasn't lowered the tone of this excellent thread.

#1234 ibsenop

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 17:00

I was looking at my archives and I can't find traces of the fuel caps on front fenders on:
917K
917-016, 917-019, 917-020, 917-023, 917-024, 917-030
917LH
917-040, 917-041, 917-042, 917-043, 917-045, 917-052 and 917-053.
All the others have fuel caps on front fenders in a period of their lives.
Does anyone have more information?

Ibsenop
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

#1235 Duc-Man

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 17:11

I just noticed something funny: the car on the drawing has 3 fuel caps. The two caps that are where they can't be and a third one at the propper place...
Either the artist did alter an older drawing or he screwed up pretty bad...

#1236 macoran

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 17:29

Originally posted by markpde
I posted Michael Badrocke's Porsche 917K cutaway on page 26,


which page 26 ?

#1237 macoran

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 17:47

Let the mystery continue...............
I am sure this is a Betti as well.
Posted Image
Now then the little tanks under the front fillers seem mighty small........don't tell me screenwash ?
Seems to be a tube coming out of the bottom going ....

#1238 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 22:35

Originally posted by macoran


which page 26 ?

This page 26 - page 26 of this thread! :)

#1239 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 22:38

Originally posted by macoran
Let the mystery continue...............
I am sure this is a Betti as well.
Posted Image
Now then the little tanks under the front fillers seem mighty small........don't tell me screenwash ?
Seems to be a tube coming out of the bottom going ....

Aaargh! I've seen that one before (I have it in My Pictures), but where are 917Historian and mfd when you need them?!

Well, the only time a 917 carried the number 9 in 1970 was at Brands Hatch (Rodriguez/Kinnunen famously carried number 10) - after the front fillers were deleted - they disappeared after Daytona and before Sebring (which was the race before Brands Hatch). It could well be that the T-car at Brands Hatch was still fitted with the earlier fuel fillers/caps, in which case it was chassis 015, used as the JWA spare throughout 1970 - after it had won the Daytona 24 Hours driven by Rodriguez, Kinnunen and Brian Redman.

This might amuse you - the belt... :D - watch the video!

The chassis in Kevin's blog/video was 012, but after a convoluted history, 015 (the cutaway 917 you've evidently posted (?)) was recreated and is now on display at the Gunnar Racing museum.

AFAIK...  ;)

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#1240 macoran

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 23:11

Originally posted by markpde

This page 26 - page 26 of this thread! :)


Ok, funny we must be on different settings my log shows we're only on page 13 now :lol:

#1241 Tony Matthews

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 23:18

Originally posted by macoran


Ok, funny we must be on different settings my log shows we're only on page 13 now :lol:


Keep up, Marc, keep up!

#1242 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 23:23

Originally posted by ibsenop
I was looking at my archives and I can't find traces of the fuel caps on front fenders on:
917K
917-016, 917-019, 917-020, 917-023, 917-024, 917-030
917LH
917-040, 917-041, 917-042, 917-043, 917-045, 917-052 and 917-053.
All the others have fuel caps on front fenders in a period of their lives.
Does anyone have more information?

Ibsenop
http://public.fotki.com/ibsenop/

The explanation, I believe, is that those which never had the front fillers were pressed into service after Daytona (February) 1970 - even though the first 25 were 'constructed' by April 1969, most were subsequently stripped down and used when necessary. Some of the privateer 917s weren't converted, though, but as far as I can tell, the 'works' JWA (and Salzburg) 917s all raced (or were built up) with the single filler behind the driver's door after that, the exceptions being the likes of 015, as above, at least at Brands Hatch '70, and 011, the Salzburg 917 at Daytona, which still had the front fillers when it was used for practice (and written off after a crash) at the Targa Florio in 1970. Not sure about the rest, though.

#1243 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 23:25

Originally posted by macoran


Ok, funny we must be on different settings my log shows we're only on page 13 now :lol:

Maybe it's because we use different browsers, Marc? I still use IE, although everybody tells me I shouldn't.

#1244 markpde

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 23:26

Originally posted by Duc-Man
I just noticed something funny: the car on the drawing has 3 fuel caps. The two caps that are where they can't be and a third one at the proper place...
Either the artist did alter an older drawing or he screwed up pretty bad...

It took me a lot longer than you to spot that! :lol:

#1245 AndyT

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 13:27

This thread falls deep into 917 discussion not for the first time :) This is definitely the car which deserve special attitude. And Nostalgia shows it as well - just type "917" in BB search and be ready to dive into 30+(!) threads to enjoy its design and history discussions. A magnificent Porsche creation really...

I've got a stupid question to Tony Matthews if appropriate. Your cutaways are very accurate in keeping original proportions and details. So the question is regarding transfer of input data of the car or workpiece parameters to paper. In case of technical drawings or actual car parts available everything is clear. But how did you deal with challenge of accurate proportions reflection and missing (hidden) details illustration in case of only photographic reference information available?

Andy

#1246 macoran

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 20:33

Not intended as quizzy, nor 917 sidetrack, but who he ?
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#1247 Tony Matthews

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 20:35

Originally posted by AndyT
I've got a stupid question to Tony Matthews if appropriate. Your cutaways are very accurate in keeping original proportions and details. So the question is regarding transfer of input data of the car or workpiece parameters to paper. In case of technical drawings or actual car parts available everything is clear. But how did you deal with challenge of accurate proportions reflection and missing (hidden) details illustration in case of only photographic reference information available? Andy


That is the difficult bit! As you say, if you have technical drawings or actual parts it is not too hard, assuming you have some experience and can read engineering drawings, to construct either a cutaway or exploded illustration, or make a rendering of an object that has not yet been manufactured. However, without this information you have to rely on drawing skills and to be able to read a photograph or set of photographs and determine the shape, size and relative position of parts. I always tried to take multiple photographs of complex or inaccessible areas, views from the top, front, back and both sides if at all possible. Sometimes you only have very limited views, such as the pedal area in a modern F1 tub. It is a very confined space, sometimes only just big enough to get a camera in without flash, so the flash has to 'look in' through another access hole...you have to be imaginative and sometimes double-jointed!

Once you have the photographs you have to make a mental engineering drawing, sketching in 3D to accurately - as far as possible - place things. You sketch, check, move, erase and sketch again until you think it's right! I will see if I can find some detail examples to post.

Posted Image

Ferrari F300 front end, the pedals and internal suspension bits sketched in place.

Posted Image

Because I was having problems sorting it out I did an overlay to help place things, so this is the same size drawing as above, may not be the same scale on screen!

#1248 macoran

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 20:36

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


Keep up, Marc, keep up!


You mean I am not ahead at 13 when the rest is panting around at 26 ?

#1249 Tony Matthews

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 20:37

Originally posted by macoran
You mean I am not ahead at 13 when the rest is panting around at 26 ?


:lol: No, I think you've been lapped!

#1250 Tony Matthews

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 20:39

Originally posted by macoran
Not intended as quizzy, nor 917 sidetrack, but who he ?
Posted Image


It has an E.T.A.I feel about it.