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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#1301 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 19:53

Hi, macoran!
My masters degree work is on the evolution of the design and forms of construction of the competition cars, the very important healthy cutaways for us to see that evolution well!
rgds

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#1302 Tony Matthews

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 21:11

Originally posted by macoran
quote: Maybe Ibsen and I are allowed to post the fully logo’d versions we have for your interest.


I'm happy, Marc, I may have some old magazines tucked away somewhere with the finished cutaways in, but I am not certain, so I'd be interested to see them too!

#1303 Tony Matthews

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 21:38

Originally posted by Tim Murray
This bit about signature removal I just do not understand. In my view it would be like their patrons asking the Old Masters not to sign their great works. Plain daft! (and extremely discourteous to you, Tony).


Thank you Tim, I appreciate your indignation on my behalf, but commercial illustration is not an area in which individual illustrators are prized or lauded, very few are given a bye-line, even now I struggle to find names to put to drawings that interests me. I think I was fortunate in that laterly my monica usually remained - some illustrators were, probably still are, quite badly treated.

#1304 macoran

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 21:46

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


I'm happy, Marc, I may have some old magazines tucked away somewhere with the finished cutaways in, but I am not certain, so I'd be interested to see them too!


Here goes then,


Because of the educational tint for Paulo I am sure Ibsen won’t mind me posting the Norton car
on his behalf.
Ibsen helped me splicing together the scans of the Gould car.
Posted Image Posted Image

#1305 Tony Matthews

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 22:06

The amazing macoran and ibsenop show continues! Well done, I am really pleased to see them again, they look quite colourful - a bit 'early' in style, but they don't embarrass me! Still think it's a shame not to have done 'em all...

#1306 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 23:34

Hi, Tony!
Do you have idea of how many works you already did until today?
I had promised to post the cutaways that I have at my library, but I didn't still get to use ImageShack, I am always making a lot of things at the same time and I don't get a time to understand as that works. Works, researches, my third university, my graduation,... madness! Marriage, hobbyes,....
rgds

#1307 IrishMariner

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 02:29

Originally posted by macoran


Here goes then,


Because of the educational tint for Paulo I am sure Ibsen won’t mind me posting the Norton car
on his behalf.
Ibsen helped me splicing together the scans of the Gould car.
Posted Image Posted Image


I've said it before, and I want to say it again, but there's something special about your cutaways, Tony. There's 'something' in the drawings that the others do not share.

#1308 Duc-Man

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:01

A few posts earlier stated Tony that he regrets that he never made a book of Penskes. This leads me to a question.
Maybe it's been mentioned and answered here before but in all honesty: I don't really fancy reading 1300 posts in this thread. And the sticky one about copyright doesn't answer the question either.
What is the copyright situation here? Does the copyright belong to the artist or (in this case) to the magazine that ordered and published the artwork?

#1309 smarjoram

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:01

Posted Image

I took the liberty of removing the blue cast (auto levels) - and also some of the vignetting (burn tool set to highlights).

#1310 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:30

Originally posted by smarjoram
I took the liberty of removing the blue cast (auto levels) - and also some of the vignetting (burn tool set to highlights).


Blimey, that looks a lot better! I used to have photoshop and could do the same, but I refuse to run expensive software with Vista because I hate it so, and am considering changing to a Mac. Actually, I realise that this version, now you have doctored it, is much nrearer the original colour, better than the final versions posted by macoran, the Gould car in particular having a brownish caste. But, as you know, you missed a bit...!

#1311 smarjoram

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 09:47

I don't think macs and pc's are all that different these days - apart from the price. Still, I don't want to start that debate. I fixed the bit I missed and did the Gould too...

Posted Image

#1312 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 12:15

Originally posted by smarjoram
I fixed the bit I missed ...


Not quite, smarjoram matey! Right front wheel...

It's not the pc I am really bothered about, it's the operating system, if that is technically correct, I didn't realise I had an option when I purchased my current machine last year.

#1313 B Squared

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 12:35

Tony - Did you by chance ever do a cutaway of the Penske PC-7?

I know I've never seen an example, but that means little as we are being exposed to many beautiful pieces that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for your help.

Brian Brown

#1314 alansart

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 12:36

Originally posted by Tony Matthews


It's not the pc I am really bothered about, it's the operating system, if that is technically correct, I didn't realise I had an option when I purchased my current machine last year.


I've using Mac's for about 15 years, so perhaps I'm a little biased. I need a PC as well so have a laptop on XP which is ok. My daughter has hers on Vista and hates it. Every time she comes home I have to fix something in the system. I'm tempted to put it on XP.

#1315 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 13:05

Originally posted by B Squared
Tony - Did you by chance ever do a cutaway of the Penske PC-7?

I know I've never seen an example, but that means little as we are being exposed to many beautiful pieces that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for your help.

Brian Brown

Hi Brian
The chassis PC-7 it was a third evolution of a chassis of F-1 the PC-4(PC-4>F-1/PC-6>Indy/PC-7>Indy) of ' 76 that it won GP of Austria. Simple and efficient...
rgds
Paulo Coimbra

#1316 B Squared

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 13:10

Paulo - I appreciate your info, I'm well aware of what the Penske PC-7 is, I'm looking for a cutaway of same for my archives on this example of Penske chassis. Thanks for your help.

Brian Brown

#1317 Tony Matthews

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 18:03

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A kaliedascope of colour castes here! I'll have to add a comment or two later, as I have been called down for my medicinal vin rouge, I regret to say...

Right, here we go....The PC6/6B paintings, shown in intriguing reverse order, I posted just out of interest, a very pretty car, and the first Indy car I was commissioned to cut away. RP also asked for the renderings, the info for the 6B obtained at Silverstone when the Indy 'circus' came over for the double-header at Brands and Silverstone. Unfortunately the 'phone remained silent until I was asked to do a rendering of the PC8, the aborted sports-racer, and in those days I did not have the self-confidence to call and ask if I could have access to a car and do a cutaway on spec. So, no PC7 unfortunately, Brian!

However, Essex Petroleum, or more correctly, David Thieme's interest in cutaways meant a commission for the PC9, and this, I think, kick-started RP's commissioning of the PC9B, PC10 and PC11. I went to Upton to see the PC12, or was it 13?, but wasn't asked to do a cutaway, and all went quiet untill the PC16, then PC17, but I was then told that Pennzoil wanted to use another illustrator for the PC18. By this time I was more forceful, and asked if I could do it anyway, just for my own pleasure. I was given the OK, worked like crazy to get it finished in a very short time - only to be told that the other illustrator had let them down! I thought - 'That's a bloody shame!'

Nick Goozee told me that RP was visiting the factory on a certain date, and he felt it would be appropriate for me to be present when he was shown the artwork, so it was mounted and framed, I put on my one suit, and waited for the big moment. The cutaway was hung in NG's office, and after a while RP walked in, said Hi and turned to the cutaway. He looked, moved forward, peered, moved back, and turned to me. "And to think they wanted to use another artist!" he snorted. A moment that I wish had been video'd so I could replay it when I felt low and useless!

The only slight fly in the ointment, apart from a rather bizzare grey 'brocade' suit that I had chosen, was that I had been persuaded by a girl friend that I would look really cool with an ear-ring, so I'd had one ear pierced. I was aware that RP's gaze shifted once or twice to my left ear-lobe, and after he'd left NG's office he passed the office door a couple of times, each time looking in and again, fixing my ear-ring with a steely glance. I said to NG "Does RP not approve of ear-rings?" and was told "No, he's not keen!" So that was the end of the ear-ring - I may be swayed occasionally, but I'm not stupid.

#1318 Bonde

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 19:29

Enjoy your fermented grape juice, Tony!

This plethora of elderly and lovely Penske's makes me wonder: Which was Geoff Ferris' last Penske design?

#1319 Tim C 27

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 19:35

The unraced PC14 was Geoff Ferris' last design I believe - they ran March 85C's instead. He did gearbox design work on the Alan Jenkins PC15 &16 as far as know but there are others on here with more info, I'm sure.

His cars were always beautiful looking and generally very effective. Thanks Tony for all of the wonderful cutaways.

Tim

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#1320 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 23:36

Hi Tony,
What always impresses me when I see those " monsters " of Indy, it is the robustness of the chassis and also the front suspensions, everything superdimensionado! Look at the chassis of Foyt..., impressive like him it got to lower the center of gravity placing the point of anchorage of the superior arm of the front suspension in the same line of the axis of the wheel..., very similar to the of Penske PC-6
Fantastic!
rgds

#1321 PeterElleray

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 23:57

Originally posted by Paulo Coimbra
Hi Tony,
What always impresses me when I see those " monsters " of Indy, it is the robustness of the chassis and also the front suspensions, everything superdimensionado! Look at the chassis of Foyt..., impressive like him it got to lower the center of gravity placing the point of anchorage of the superior arm of the front suspension in the same line of the axis of the wheel..., very similar to the of Penske PC-6
Fantastic!
rgds


didnt the coyote come first - 1973 ? first appeared on the pc4, which the pc6 was derived from, in 1976, same time as on the kojima?

peter

#1322 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 08:55

The unraced PC14 was Geoff Ferris' last design I believe - they ran March 85C's instead. He did gearbox design work on the Alan Jenkins PC15 &16 as far as know but there are others on here with more info, I'm sure.

His cars were always beautiful looking and generally very effective. Thanks Tony for all of the wonderful cutaways.

Tim


Geoff stayed at Penske Cars until he retired. He was principally responsible for gearbox design on all cars up to and including the last Penske, the PC28, but he worked on a variety of other design projects which complemented hiis skills and abilities. He retired (if I recall correctly) in 2001.

A super nice, ultra capable but very modest man.

#1323 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 10:56

didnt the coyote come first - 1973 ? first appeared on the pc4, which the pc6 was derived from, in 1976, same time as on the kojima?

peter


Hi, Peter!
I referred to Coyote-Foyt 1973! That were the first chassis low-line of Foyt. I don't know who was your designer, but there, everything always had the finger of Foyt. Those chassis, later (1978/79) they served as inspiration for Wildcat. For me, Coyote forms one of the more beautiful chassis of the whole history. Kojima KE007 reminded the lines of Coyote,não vaguely I see a lot of infuence among the designs...
rgds friends

#1324 PeterElleray

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 11:49

Hi, Peter!
I referred to Coyote-Foyt 1973! That were the first chassis low-line of Foyt. I don't know who was your designer,



Design credit to Bob Riley - no doubt with considerable input from AJ...

Peter

#1325 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:13

Design credit to Bob Riley - no doubt with considerable input from AJ...

Peter


Ah...yes..., great Bob Riley...
I remembered here, that only in 1986, Gordon Murray " began " the fashion of the chassis Low-line in F-1 with Brabham BT-55...


#1326 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:26

Ah...yes..., great Bob Riley...
I remembered here, that only in 1986, Gordon Murray " began " the fashion of the chassis Low-line in F-1 with Brabham BT-55...

Peter, sorry!
Did I forget that in ' 76 there was Hesketh 308C and soon after, the chassis Lola / Hill HG 4 (?), I think the designer was Andy Smalman, correct? :drunk: :drunk:


#1327 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 17:22

I have been asked to stick this on the screen, I will have to do it in two parts as I do not have an A4 print or a trannie, sorry. I will also hae to use 'edit' too' so who knows what the outcome will be!


Posted Image

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Edited by Tony Matthews, 30 April 2009 - 17:25.


#1328 gablet

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 17:28

Thanks Tony!
Gab

#1329 alansart

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 17:49

Joined :)

Posted Image



#1330 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 18:01

Thanks Alan, that was pretty nifty! At least I managed to make the scanner produce two scans to the same scale - or did I? Perhaps there was more to it!


#1331 alansart

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 18:28

Thanks Alan, that was pretty nifty! At least I managed to make the scanner produce two scans to the same scale - or did I? Perhaps there was more to it!


Almost the same.

I've got a dull job on at the moment and I was bored :)


#1332 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 19:03

Thanks Alan, that was pretty nifty! At least I managed to make the scanner produce two scans to the same scale - or did I? Perhaps there was more to it!

Tony,
Is your drawing?
rgds
http://img240.images.../tyrrell007.jpg

#1333 Tim C 27

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 20:32

Regarding the PC14, I actually have a print out which one of the draftsmen did for me. It is unfortunately way too big to scan though. Also, it doesn't show the nose cone, so you can't really get a true idea of how it would have looked. It is an Isometric view showing the monocoque and (if I remember correctly) the engine cover detail. I can't recall whether the suspension is shown.

I met Geoff Ferris then too - he was just as Nigel said - really nice (as were all the staff in Poole) and seemed almost embarrassed that I wanted to meet him. As far as I was concerned - he was the man who designed the great PC10 - one of the best looking race cars in my opinion. Sorry - I'm getting a bit off topic.

Tim

#1334 macoran

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 20:37

Tony,
Is your drawing?
rgds
http://img240.images.../tyrrell007.jpg


I say no

#1335 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 21:50

I say no


Marc, I don't know why but that really amused me! I suppose you are saying 'No, that's not by TM', but I say yes, and so does the man from Del Monte! My first colour cutaway for Motor Sport, in fact my second colour cutaway ever, done with poster paint on line-board, hence some rather odd effects, especially on the tyre treads and sidewalls - it was almost impossible to get a good blend, it's all a bit 'scratchy'. Still, you have to start somewhere! I don't suppose the original still exists, but if it does, some of the colours will have changed, possibly even disappeared. Funny stuff, poster paint.

Tim, absolutely right about the Penske staff, my only slight problem was that being shy myself conversation with Geoff Ferris would sometimes bog down completely, but a very nice man.

Gablet, hope that is OK.


#1336 macoran

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 21:57

Marc, I don't know why but that really amused me! I suppose you are saying 'No, that's not by TM', but I say yes,


I wasn't on about the 007 cutaway Tony, but the 007 drawing Paolo linked us to in his post.



#1337 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 22:12

I wasn't on about the 007 cutaway Tony, but the 007 drawing Paolo linked us to in his post.

Sorry Marc, silly me! The link didn't look like part of his post, for some reason. What a strange little drawing.


#1338 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 22:14

Posted Image
I am placing the image again...

#1339 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 22:27

Hi, Tony!
In the book " Anatomy of Speed " of Terry Jackson, did find two cutaways, of a Tyrrell(022...?) and of a Lola Indy(Valvoline/Craftsman), both of 1994 (?)
Are yours?
rgds

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#1340 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 22:39

Posted Image

Homage to Great Ayrton Senna da Silva! " Simple the BEST " For the 15 years of your death.

Paulo Coimbra

#1341 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 22:44

Hi, Tony!
In the book " Anatomy of Speed " of Terry Jackson, did find two cutaways, of a Tyrrell(022...?) and of a Lola Indy(Valvoline/Craftsman), both of 1994 (?)
Are yours?
rgds


Paulo, I don't know Terry Jackson and I have not seen 'The Anatomy of Speed', but I did cutaways of both those cars.


#1342 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 23:00

Posted Image
Tony,

hummm, think he used your drawings without " copyrights "...


#1343 Tony Matthews

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 23:10

hummm, think he used your drawings without " copyrights "...


Paulo, the copyright belongs to Valvoline - I'm not sure about the Tyrrell - and it's a Reynard, not a Lola! I imagine it's an American publication - I've certainly not seen it.


#1344 Paulo Coimbra

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 23:18

Yes, Reynard! Sorry!!
The book:
The Publisher:
New Burlington Books
6 Blundell Street
LONDON N7 9BH
1996 - QUINTET PUBLISHING LIMITED - ISBN 1-86155-035-9

#1345 DHFiallo

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 23:55

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Homage to Great Ayrton Senna da Silva! " Simple the BEST " For the 15 years of your death.

Paulo Coimbra

:cry:

#1346 sidny

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 14:54

just a little jot to say how much i've enjoyey this thread. pure genius. Mr Tony Matthews , thankyou for your posts ! and eveyone else ! Tony, your pics would have me away for hours, still can't believe your talent. thankyou. sid. :wave:

Edited by sidny, 01 May 2009 - 14:55.


#1347 PeterElleray

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 15:47

Ah...yes..., great Bob Riley...
I remembered here, that only in 1986, Gordon Murray " began " the fashion of the chassis Low-line in F-1 with Brabham BT-55...



actually there were quite a few more shallow tubs around that era - but the coyote may have been one of the first.. the lay down aspect of the bt55 refered to the inclined driving position (similar to a lotus 25), not the tub itself - which was full depth, to the cockpit opening.

peter

#1348 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 08:16

actually there were quite a few more shallow tubs around that era - but the coyote may have been one of the first.. the lay down aspect of the bt55 refered to the inclined driving position (similar to a lotus 25), not the tub itself - which was full depth, to the cockpit opening.

peter


Yes, we had a Tyrrell 008 in the factory at Ockham for a time in 1995, and from a modern perspective the tub was shockingly shallow.

#1349 Rancethebus

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 09:57

wonder if any of you experts out there can advise me. I n amongst a load of artwork that I purchased from Hazleton publishing many years ago was the attached diagram. I think it is a grand prix car from the sixties but I could e very wrong. Please could someone advise meas to what it is? My own guess is a Mclaren M4A.

Posted Image


#1350 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 10:50

wonder if any of you experts out there can advise me. I n amongst a load of artwork that I purchased from Hazleton publishing many years ago was the attached diagram. I think it is a grand prix car from the sixties but I could e very wrong. Please could someone advise meas to what it is? My own guess is a Mclaren M4A.

Posted Image


I don't think it's an M4A - that didn't have rocker front suspension (ref pic on p93 of Doug Nye's "McLaren, The Grand Prix, Can-Am and Indy Cars").

More likely to be M2B, if it's a McLaren.

Nigel