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#1701 David M. Kane

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 14:36

thiscocks more! :up:

Edited by David M. Kane, 10 June 2009 - 14:36.


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#1702 thiscocks

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 14:52

You're obviously not talking about me, then!


Well I meant I am just lazy by comparison! I wish I had the construction techniques of yourself! Much better to have it exact ideally but as I have little time and patience I tend to just copy from photos by eye or trace. I have never attempted airbrushing but I guess you need alot of patience for that.. I couldn't do without the undo key on the keboard!

Ill try and find some more, but I have little on the computer...

Edited by thiscocks, 10 June 2009 - 14:53.


#1703 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 14:53

Looking on wat Alfa achieved with their engines, Pat should have saved him the problems. I don't know what the italians did with that engine but the opportunity was wasted on them


Henri


I didn't want to name names, but it was he. As far as the Alfa engine, I think it was probably the old story of knowing what has been done without fully understanding why...

This is turning into the Technical Forum!


#1704 Henri Greuter

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 15:03

I didn't want to name names, but it was he. As far as the Alfa engine, I think it was probably the old story of knowing what has been done without fully understanding why...

This is turning into the Technical Forum!


Tony,

It is indeed more for the technical forum.
And I do dare to mention the name of patrick this time because it has been told on a number of occasions already, in print too. it is no news.
Having said this. I have a lot of admiratiuon and respect for pat Patrick Racing and his achievements in 1990 because they started virtually with nothing but their team of men and had to start up all over again when the Alfa deal came along.
That they got stuck with the March 90CA and the Alfa engine, more correct, the quailties of these components, that wasn't their fault.

Before the moderatosr interfere, this is the last what I will say about the (Off topic) subjest in this thread

Henri

#1705 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 15:06

I have never attempted airbrushing but I guess you need alot of patience for that.. I couldn't do without the undo key on the keboard!


I haven't done that much airbrushing - four engines, three (I think) gearboxes - but I'd still rather do the real thing than use software, it doesn't interest me. As for being patient, I am not, I am very impatient, but the analogy I always use is the Innuit (is Eskimo politically incorrect still?) waiting for hours by a hole in the ice waiting for a seal to stick his head up for air and get a harpoon in the ear'ole instead. It's no good saying "I'm thick, thick, thick of all thith thnow and ithe!" and stomping back to the igloo empty handed, you do what you have to do.

PS. Not all Innuit have a lisp, just that one.


#1706 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 19:39

Posted Image

Part of a cutaway of the Ferrari F2000 gearbox, coloured by blowing gouache onto cardboard, tedious and time-consuming, but ultimately quite satisfying.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 10 June 2009 - 19:39.


#1707 DHFiallo

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Posted 10 June 2009 - 23:56

Here is another brilliant work from our own Tony Matthews.

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#1708 thiscocks

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:19

Posted Image

Part of a cutaway of the Ferrari F2000 gearbox, coloured by blowing gouache onto cardboard, tedious and time-consuming, but ultimately quite satisfying.


I would say that is the proverbial leapoard seal catch for the eskimo. Lovely lighting as usual. I like the oil(?) on the shaft in the bottom right. How do you do the carbon effect?


#1709 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 07:48

I would say that is the proverbial leapoard seal catch for the eskimo. Lovely lighting as usual. I like the oil(?) on the shaft in the bottom right. How do you do the carbon effect?


The carbon is paint brush, and/or ruling pen loaded with paint, bit of a mixture. It depends on scale, on car cutaways the weave is so small you can do it all with the pen, on larger-scale subjects where you have to show the carbon in more detail you have to choose different means. On the airbox of the Ilmor V10 I made a saw-toothed slot in some acetate and moved it step-by-step over the artwork spraying each line of weave, then adding the actual fibres with a brush. It helps to be slightly mad, if you're not you soon will be!

Carbon is obviously mainly black, but you get slight variations due to other fibres and, I think, different resins, and to me the Ferrari gearbox 'shroud' had a brownish tinge which I exaggerated slightly, and the damper cooling duct, for that is what it is, was pure carbon-black.

This detail is from the F2000 book, as the only file I have is 56MB, and I don't have the software to cope with it. It looks a bit flat to me, as all the areas that should be pure white have a tint.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 June 2009 - 15:42.


#1710 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:05

Posted Image

Not very sharp, low res. scan. I'm not sure it was worth all the effort making the special mask, but it made sense at the time - there is probably a quicker, easier method that gives the same or better result. Ho hum, yer live 'n' learn.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 June 2009 - 09:07.


#1711 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:09

Lovely lighting as usual. I like the oil(?) on the shaft in the bottom right.


It's Elbow Grease.


#1712 thiscocks

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:27

Posted Image

Not very sharp, low res. scan. I'm not sure it was worth all the effort making the special mask, but it made sense at the time - there is probably a quicker, easier method that gives the same or better result. Ho hum, yer live 'n' learn.


Yes that worked well I think. Amazing how totally different things that look the same at a glance (carbon) actually are upon inspection.(if you understood that..!? - I didn't). Not that I could think of a better way, but would you still do the air filter the same way?- hard to make them look unlike plastic.. I suppose other than putting 'ITG' or 'K&N' written in big letters on them it's tricky!

#1713 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 09:48

Yes that worked well I think. Amazing how totally different things that look the same at a glance (carbon) actually are upon inspection.(if you understood that..!? - I didn't). Not that I could think of a better way, but would you still do the air filter the same way?- hard to make them look unlike plastic.. I suppose other than putting 'ITG' or 'K&N' written in big letters on them it's tricky!


Posted Image

It's all about looking and seeing - two different actions - you can't see without looking, but you can look without seeing. That may be the most - or only - profound thing I have ever said!

This is the best I can do with the filter, too. In reality it is sharp and actually looks like black foam! The overall area was airbrushed to give some shape, then stippled with a brush using various shades of grey to give the texture. I don't think I could improve on it really, unless I worked a bit slower and added more stipple, but I always worked as fast as I could to get the damn things done and out of the way. It is unusual in that I gave the cut some colour and texture too, instead of leaving it white. It didn't look right somehow, so I filled it in.

Edited to say that I may have used a spatter tip on the old De Vilbiss, I know I bought one, I think that when I tried it I couldn't get the control I wanted, so reverted to the old sable hair.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 June 2009 - 12:02.


#1714 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 12:50



I don't know how to post them so I mention them, perhaps someone else here has the books too and a scanner.

The book Lancia Racing by Nigel Trow has a cutaway in color of the Lancia Delta S4 on the back cover.

The book Lancia Stratos "World champion rally car, also by Trow has a cutaway drawing of the Stratos on the backcaver.



Henri


#1715 Duc-Man

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 14:07

Don't know if you mean those:

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And talking 'bout Lancia: here are two more...

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Some Rallye car cutaways. I looked around, some are not exactly the best quality...

Edited by Duc-Man, 11 June 2009 - 14:09.


#1716 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 14:21

Don't know if you mean those:


Some Rallye car cutaways. I looked around, some are not exactly the best quality...



The Delta is the one I mentioned,

The Stratos on the Stratos book I mentioned is of a car in a similar position but then it is in color.

Henri

#1717 Duc-Man

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 14:24

And anotherone: Lancia ECV.

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#1718 DOHC

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 15:32

Posted Image

Part of a cutaway of the Ferrari F2000 gearbox, coloured by blowing gouache onto cardboard, tedious and time-consuming, but ultimately quite satisfying.



Well, what can one say! :clap:

I must confess to being a sucker for these things that are pure mechanical engineering. I think they are in a different category from complete cars, which I find more artistic, imaginative, and "exciting," but the sheer skill and elegance of doing something like this is just awesome. My hat is off. :up:


#1719 ibsenop

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 17:58

Lancia 037
Cutaway artist: Bruno Betti

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Lancia Stratos
Cutaway artist: Bruno Betti

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Lancia Stratos Gr4 1974
Cutaway artist: Jiro Yamada

Posted Image Posted Image

Ibsen

Edited by ibsenop, 11 June 2009 - 18:50.


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#1720 macoran

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 21:16

Are you on power-boost Ibsen ?
:up:
Here is Bruno Betti's Fulvia HF

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Now all I have to do is find pics of my 1st Asian Highway Rally Fulvia HF entry, which I still believe was the ex Pat Moss 67 Coupe des Dames Monte Carlo Rally car.

Edited by macoran, 11 June 2009 - 21:16.


#1721 macoran

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 21:21

And as we are on Stratosses / Stratox / Strati
here is the Sandro Munari Monte 75 job by Bruno Betti TOL6 5176 from another angle.
How many times would a cutaway of the same car have been made by the same artist but from a different viewpoint ?
Posted Image

Edited by macoran, 11 June 2009 - 21:24.


#1722 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 21:28

Are you on power-boost Ibsen ?


There is a hint of Red Bull about it, Marc! Well done Ibsen.


#1723 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 21:41

Well, what can one say! :clap:

I must confess to being a sucker for these things that are pure mechanical engineering. I think they are in a different category from complete cars, which I find more artistic, imaginative, and "exciting," but the sheer skill and elegance of doing something like this is just awesome. My hat is off. :up:


Many thanks DOHC. Don't tell anyone, but when you draw a car, as there is a great deal of empty space relative to mechanical bits, there is some freedom, the opportunity to move things slightly if they don't at first fit. Don't misunderstand me, I have always attempted to be completely accurate, but one is limited by lack of information or just human error, and this without incorporating 'artistic licence', which has it's place. But engines and gearboxes - that's different - every component is so closely related to its neighbours, there is very little room for error, an added pleasure as far as I am concerned. Yes, the complete cars are what grab you, but I found more satisfaction from illustrating 'solid' machinery, engines and gearboxes.

#1724 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 22:00

Posted Image

Posted Image

Two examples of airbrush painting of gearboxes - a bit messy, although the artwork itself is normally carefully masked, only the part being worked on exposed to the possibility of disaster.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 June 2009 - 22:05.


#1725 Duc-Man

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:34

And as we are on Stratosses / Stratox / Strati

I think it's the same than with Guinness: there is no plural. Or does anybody order Guinnesses or even worse: Guinnea?

Tony: thanks for that look behind the scenes.
But how do you know how a gearbox or engine looks inside? Did you get proper technical drawing to do the job?

#1726 thiscocks

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 09:32

I think it's the same than with Guinness: there is no plural. Or does anybody order Guinnesses or even worse: Guinnea?

Tony: thanks for that look behind the scenes.
But how do you know how a gearbox or engine looks inside? Did you get proper technical drawing to do the job?


...his are the proper technical drawings! You mean engineering drawings... :p

#1727 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 12:12

But how do you know how a gearbox or engine looks inside? Did you get proper technical drawing to do the job?

Posted Image

This - and there are more, about five rolls of film in total for the engine - and some works drawings. I got more or less what I wanted, eventually, from Ferrari, but Ilmor were always very helpful in that area, you have to build a trusting relationship when dealing with sensitive matters.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 12 June 2009 - 13:21.


#1728 DHFiallo

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 14:07


Wow, these gearbox cutaways are sick!! :up: I used to work in a factory where I was in charge of all sorts of machines. Machines with spinning gears, shafts and whatnot; after particularly hard days I would then dream about ways to improve the bloody things. Did you ever get like that where you would dream up a particular perspective or way to show a piece?

#1729 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 14:10

Wow, these gearbox cutaways are sick!! :up: I used to work in a factory where I was in charge of all sorts of machines. Machines with spinning gears, shafts and whatnot; after particularly hard days I would then dream about ways to improve the bloody things. Did you ever get like that where you would dream up a particular perspective or way to show a piece?



I thought of nothing else for decades, DHF. Well, almost nothing else...

#1730 macoran

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 18:08

I think it's the same than with Guinness: there is no plural. Or does anybody order Guinnesses or even worse: Guinnea?

Tony: thanks for that look behind the scenes.
But how do you know how a gearbox or engine looks inside? Did you get proper technical drawing to do the job?


You saved my day !!, I only had beer !


#1731 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 18:15

... Guinnea?


I could to with a couple of Guinnea myself at the moment...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 12 June 2009 - 18:15.


#1732 macoran

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 21:58

Posted Image

Posted Image

Two examples of airbrush painting of gearboxes - a bit messy, although the artwork itself is normally carefully masked, only the part being worked on exposed to the possibility of disaster.


Seeing that I'd just wanna get meself an airbrush an havva go, jeez that is heavy painting Tony !!... puters ain't nuthing compared to that.
edit.... I don't want to start frothing and dribbling....but by Lord it is a sin you had to stop cutting away Tony.

Edited by macoran, 12 June 2009 - 22:37.


#1733 macoran

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 22:31

A few posts ago I put up some renderings by the same artist of the same car, but from different viewpoints.
Here two renderings of the same car by different artists Bruno Betti and Technical Art
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Posted Image
Walter Rohr 1976 World Rally Champ Kadett GT/E reg GG-DU 403

Edited by macoran, 12 June 2009 - 22:33.


#1734 macoran

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 23:32

I could to with a couple of Guinnea myself at the moment...

Probably why I prefer beer
1 beer, 2 beer, 3 beer, more beer is it ?

Want to share a Dutch joke, but don't know how it'll come over.

Dutch farmer meets Dutch farmer, whut didya hav fur breckfust
hemma neckx ! (accent loaded farmer speak)
was it tasty ?
huh?
it was like nuthing!

hemma neckx (accent loaded) in Dutch means...nothing at all.
hemma neckx... sounds like... accent loaded "ham and eggs"

more or less like the chinese fish and chips fella asking if ya want sorefingah with ya chips

OOOOw this is not my standup day.....



#1735 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 23:41


I don't know whether I've got ham 'n' eggs for breakfast or hemma neckx, Marc, but I live in hope. Which is not far from Hitchin...

#1736 werks prototype

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 15:10

Posted Image

Posted Image

Two examples of airbrush painting of gearboxes - a bit messy, although the artwork itself is normally carefully masked, only the part being worked on exposed to the possibility of disaster.


The master at work!

Did you ever take those steps in the direction of painting landscapes Tony? I believe you mentioned this before.


#1737 Tony Matthews

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 18:37

...sorefingah...


Blood hell, I've only just got it! While your at it, yes please, I will have some...


#1738 macoran

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 18:40

Blood hell, I've only just got it! While your at it, yes please, I will have some...

I was wondering if/when somebody's bell would ring ! :clap:

Edited by macoran, 13 June 2009 - 18:42.


#1739 macoran

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 21:57

Technical Art Opel Ascona 400
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#1740 ibsenop

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 22:16

Opel Ascona 400 Gr4 by Franco Rosso

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Sorry, only B&W.

Ibsen

#1741 macoran

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 23:06

Opel Ascona 400 Gr4 by Franco Rosso
Sorry, only B&W.

Ibsen


You can't help that, we'll blame Franco or QuattroRuote

Anyone know who this artist is, can't make much of his signature

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#1742 Tony Matthews

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 23:20

You can't help that, we'll blame Franco or QuattroRuote


:rotfl: Nearly as funny as sorefingah!

Anyone know who this artist is, can't make much of his signature

Posted Image


JIM BAMBER! He did a few some time ago, better known for his cartoons and interesting artwork.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 13 June 2009 - 23:21.


#1743 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 08:26

Did you ever take those steps in the direction of painting landscapes Tony? I believe you mentioned this before.


No, not yet, I still want to, but I am very apprehensive about picking up a paintbrush again. It's not exactly 'writer's block', I know what I want to paint, I've always got my eyes open and my inner eye focused, but just can't take the big step to making marks on a large piece of white board. It might be fear of failure...


#1744 macoran

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:05

better known for his cartoons and interesting artwork.

Amazing !! I know Bamber's cartoons, and am really surprised of his multi-talent.
Cartoonists are usually known for their quick scribbly work, catching one or two important features to
catch the personality/ character of what they are portraying.
The cutaway artist, sitting down to a labour of detail attention to capture exactly what is to be seen.
Or should I just think an artist is an artist is an.....

Did you ever do any cartooning Tony ?



#1745 macoran

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:06

Two takes on Jaguar's D type
Tony Matthews has already posted some in British Racing Green some while ago.

Tony Matthews
Posted Image
Why Yellow?
The article in Road&Track March 1976 starts off with these words. The writer goes on to explain that Ecurie Ecosse weren't the only team to field D types at Le Mans in 1955. Briggs Cunningham entered entered one painted in the U.S. racing colours..oops! .. colors. The cutaway car is XKD 573 in the Ecurie National Belge colours.
Theo Page
Posted Image

Edited by macoran, 14 June 2009 - 12:07.


#1746 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 12:40

Did you ever do any cartooning Tony ?


Only under duress, Marc, you have to develop a style, and I never bothered as it wasn't something I wanted to do a lot. I am a great admirer of the top cartoonists, though, but it is more the quirky humour, the lateral thinking that I enjoy most.



#1747 Tony Matthews

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 13:01

Tony Matthews
Posted Image
Why Yellow?
The article in Road&Track March 1976 starts off with these words. The writer goes on to explain that Ecurie Ecosse weren't the only team to field D types at Le Mans in 1955. Briggs Cunningham entered entered one painted in the U.S. racing colours..oops! .. colors. The cutaway car is XKD 573 in the Ecurie National Belge colours.


Bloody Hell, it looks as though it's been tie-dyed! Not a great piece of artwork, very early, and it took me years to learn how to paint yellow bodywork (thank you, Pennzoil!) as the base colour has to be right, then - what colour are the shadows? Also the yellow pigmented-gouaches have varying textures and are difficult to blend, I found, on the watercolour board. It is easier to airbrush, but mistakes are really difficult to deal with. Yellow - just say no!

But I did once have a commission, which I may have mentioned before, for TEN renderings of the Penske PC11, five Pennzoil and five Hertz, all yellow... ten 20"x30" boards, and lots of yellow gouache, most of which penetrated my mask and formed a long-term relationship with my mucus membrane.

Posted Image

Not particularly good, but better than the 'D' Type. I prefered the Pennzoil scheme, I liked the Pennzoil logo and the red trim more than the blue. Also there is a colour gradient across the painting due to poor lighting for the studio shot. The best painter of yellow cars, and my all-time favourite airbrush artist, is the late Gavin McLeod, who deserves a thread all to himself.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 14 June 2009 - 13:13.


#1748 macoran

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 13:59

Bloody Hell, it looks as though it's been tie-dyed!


I have the same problem scanning red, I think it has more to do with scanning from magazine prints in high res

That PC11 is a beautiful rendering !!

Edited by macoran, 14 June 2009 - 13:59.


#1749 IrishMariner

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:58

Many thanks DOHC. Don't tell anyone, but when you draw a car, as there is a great deal of empty space relative to mechanical bits, there is some freedom, the opportunity to move things slightly if they don't at first fit. Don't misunderstand me, I have always attempted to be completely accurate, but one is limited by lack of information or just human error, and this without incorporating 'artistic licence', which has it's place. But engines and gearboxes - that's different - every component is so closely related to its neighbours, there is very little room for error, an added pleasure as far as I am concerned. Yes, the complete cars are what grab you, but I found more satisfaction from illustrating 'solid' machinery, engines and gearboxes.


Tony, them 'unfinished' gearbox drawings are amazing. In particular, the RALT one caught my attention. The detailing around the diff is top-notch. Well done. At this point of the thread, you could post a picture of the brown ring left by your coffee cup and we'd both save it and ask to see the working drawings!

#1750 IrishMariner

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 19:01

Amazing !! I know Bamber's cartoons, and am really surprised of his multi-talent.
Cartoonists are usually known for their quick scribbly work, catching one or two important features to
catch the personality/ character of what they are portraying.
The cutaway artist, sitting down to a labour of detail attention to capture exactly what is to be seen.
Or should I just think an artist is an artist is an.....

Did you ever do any cartooning Tony ?


Bamber also did cutaways of the sophisticated Celica GT-4 (1989-ish) and the Escort Cosworth. Pretty talented fella. I used to like the long-gone magazine Cars & Car Conversions because they gave plenty of ink to articles on WRC/Rallycross technology before Racecar Engineering gave Martin Sharp a proper forum.

Edited by IrishMariner, 14 June 2009 - 19:02.