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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#1901 Manel Baró

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:16

Nissan R381 by...............

Can anyone identify the artist. Could it be Inomoto ?
I see most Inomoto cutaways signed with his name fully written, but do you know if he every only intialed his artwork with just the
curvaceous I ...or is it a J ?
Ibsen has a Porsche 906 with the same I, and neither one of us is sure who the artist is.

Curious the apparently erroneous position of the steering wheel.


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#1902 alansart

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:28

Curious the apparently erroneous position of the steering wheel.


Well spotted - how odd.


#1903 Henri Greuter

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 14:10

Let's combine the subjects Alfa Romeo and Indy. Did anybody do the March Alfa Romeo 89?

Posted Image



Doing a search on the internet for further 89CE info I found out that the 89CE press kit contained a cutaway drawing.
But the approval I found can't be copied properly in this thread.
besides that, I hate it to copy pictures and drawings from somebody else without his/her approval.

But if anyone posting here regularly has a 89CE press kit, check it out, it might be in yours as well.


henri

#1904 macoran

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 19:27

Doing a search on the internet for further 89CE info I found out that the 89CE press kit contained a cutaway drawing.
But the approval I found can't be copied properly in this thread.
besides that, I hate it to copy pictures and drawings from somebody else without his/her approval.

But if anyone posting here regularly has a 89CE press kit, check it out, it might be in yours as well.


henri


henri.....at least tell me where on the internet you found the press kit........hints like your post give me ulcers
either tell me something or tell me nothing

#1905 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 19:49

henri.....at least tell me where on the internet you found the press kit........hints like your post give me ulcers
either tell me something or tell me nothing


I feel sure that I have seen - and I'm sure I've said this before, but it might have been on another thread - a Betti cutaway of the March-Alfa, possibly in Alan Henry's potboiler about March Engineering.

#1906 Henri Greuter

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 08:08

henri.....at least tell me where on the internet you found the press kit........hints like your post give me ulcers
either tell me something or tell me nothing



Sorry for the ulcer....


http://www.arteauto....-press-kit.HTML

marchives has a press kit on their website but the cutaway is not posted.

Henri

#1907 macoran

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 00:07

Tony, can you confirm this to be an Allington ?
Posted Image

I don't think I have posted it here before...........I think I did on a Lola thread


Henri,.......don't worry my ulcers and other problems here are what I call "online reality"

Edited by macoran, 08 July 2009 - 00:08.


#1908 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 08:32

Tony, can you confirm this to be an Allington ?
Posted Image


Yep, Marc, definitely one of Jim's! I have no idea why the tyres were un-shaded apart from a very tight deadline. One of my favourite cars, I wanted to do a series of big sports cars...

#1909 Bonde

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:47

Tony,

The Betti March-Alfa 89CE cutaway is actually in (occasional) TNF'er Mike Lawrence's excellent 'Four Guys and a Telephone'.

('bout time I contributed anything to this thread, too!)

((I'm only sniffing due to hayfever, no glue or other organic solvents involved...))

#1910 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 14:44

The Betti March-Alfa 89CE cutaway is actually in (occasional) TNF'er Mike Lawrence's excellent 'Four Guys and a Telephone'.



Ta, Anders. Now that is a good book... Still can't find half my books.

#1911 macoran

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 21:41

Tony, in my exchanges with Ibsen he has sent me a cutaway of a Ferrari GTO saying it is one of two he has by you.
I already have a GTO by your hand and it has your signature and date 86. It is a left 3/4 view.
Ibsen sent me one which is a right 3/4 view, and looking at the detailing it would appear to be a straight mirrored copy,
but then with the components relocated to the correct side. The cut-lines through the bodywork are also spitting identical.
Did you do two GTOs ?


#1912 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 23:37

Tony, in my exchanges with Ibsen he has sent me a cutaway of a Ferrari GTO saying it is one of two he has by you.
I already have a GTO by your hand and it has your signature and date 86. It is a left 3/4 view.
Ibsen sent me one which is a right 3/4 view, and looking at the detailing it would appear to be a straight mirrored copy,
but then with the components relocated to the correct side. The cut-lines through the bodywork are also spitting identical.
Did you do two GTOs ?



Marc, Ray Kilhan of KK Jigsaws asked me to do a cutaway of the GTO, as he, and I, realised that the series, although moderately succesful, needed a Ferrari to really get off the ground. He contacted Nick Mason to see if we could do his car, reg. no. 250GTO, and would he buy the original? He agreed, I did the illustration based on all sorts of bits, but not NM's car, and the jigsaw was put into production. Shortly afterwards a magazine contacted me, asking for permission to use the cutaway. I said OK, but you must clear it with NM.

I cannot remember exactly what happened, but the magazine assumed they would be able to use it and went ahead with production, only to be told, at the last minute that they couldn't use it! I was phoned by a staff member in a panic, as they had a hole to fill over two pages, and not much time. I said that I would try to sort something for them, and the result was another 250GTO drawn from the opposite side, not as easy as it sounds, as so much is handed - steering, instruments, pedals, wipers, various castings, fuel and brake lines.... - it goes on, but it was obviously quicker to base it on 250GTO than start from scratch! So there you have it, two cutaways of the same car, from different sides, NM's being slightly neater due to more time being lavished on it.

#1913 Duc-Man

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 08:38

I just bumped into this:

Posted Image
The famous Porsche 917 engine by Vic Berris.

#1914 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:50

Lucky Vic Berris! I would have jumped at the chance of doing a cutaway of that engine!

#1915 Duc-Man

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 10:40

Porsche has an 'exploded' 917 turbo engine on display at their new museum. Looks quiet impressing:

Posted Image

#1916 B Squared

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 13:33

Duc-Man - Your photo of the 917 engine reminded me that on page 112, the July 2009 issue of Architectural Digest has a write up on the Porsche Museum - if any are interested in their view.

Brian

#1917 David M. Kane

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 14:11

Way cool! :up:

#1918 macoran

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 19:06

I just bumped into this:

No bruises I hope ?
I recall a cutaway series on engines in Autocar, ..... in colour.....which included this 917 job, the Coventry Climax flat 16 ,
Ferrari 512 and others, where is it ?

Edited by macoran, 09 July 2009 - 19:26.


#1919 macoran

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 21:52

Like I said...show something or.
Here are some top notch engineering brmm brmm (whiner) jobs
Posted Image
Posted Image


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#1920 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 02:56

Jim Allington did the CC flat 16 and the .. it's no good, I'm beyond typing, I'l respond termorrer...

#1921 Duc-Man

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 07:27

Those engines: Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

That Coventry-Climax engine had 1.5 litre? That's just as insane as the 500cc Moto Guzzi V8...

BTW: Posted Image

Okay, it's not a cutaway...but I guess it's still a good one.

#1922 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 10:57

Jim Allington did the CC flat 16 and the .. it's no good, I'm beyond typing, I'l respond termorrer...

I've just found the above, but I don't remember typing it...

As you were. He did the CC flat 16, yep, DM, 1.5 litre, and the BRM H16 3 litre, and the one illustration I would have bid for if I'd known about the auction, the CC 2.5 litre - FPF? Blowed if I can remember it's designation - complete with transaxle. That is the cutaway he was doing when I first met him, and made me realise that there was something that I really, really wanted to do in life! I wish I had done more engines, they are very satisfying. I sometimes toy with the idea of finishing the Ilmor Chevrolet 265B, as it is so near to completion, but then I think - nah.

#1923 Macca

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:43

That BRM cutaway shows the 64-valve version of the H16, surely the most complicated racing engine built.


Paul M

#1924 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 16:24

That BRM cutaway shows the 64-valve version of the H16, surely the most complicated racing engine built.


Paul M

I certainly remember it as a complicated illustration! I haven't seen it since it was finished by Jim, and I think we went to the launch of the car at Bourne. Any chance you could post it Paul, or point me in its direction?

Posted Image

Here is my ink version of the Ilmor Chevrolet 265A, later done in colour, and both versions updated to fully electronic injection. Thank goodness I was commisioned to do it in B&W first, as I had not done any airbrushing to speak of at this time.

#1925 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 16:31

And here is the ink version of the first Ilmor V10 - this time the colour version was done first, then some time later a B&W version was asked for. Even as late as 1991, it seems, it was useful to have a line version of the artwork, although I never saw it used.

Posted Image

#1926 David M. Kane

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 17:32

Tony:

From a technical statepoint, how different was the Ilmor Indy motor from the DFX? Was it a clever rethink or a really different motor?

#1927 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 18:13

Tony:

From a technical statepoint, how different was the Ilmor Indy motor from the DFX? Was it a clever rethink or a really different motor?

Different motor, David, a clean-sheet approach, and although the DFX was a succesful engine, as it was based on the DFV the architecture was a bit long in the tooth. Although, to neatly contradict myself, in some respects I suppose you could say that it was a clever re-think, but only within the constraints of capacity, number of cylinders and fuel used. I'm not sure that makes perfect sense!

#1928 ibsenop

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:52

Jim Allington did the CC flat 16 and the .. it's no good, I'm beyond typing, I'l respond termorrer...


Coventry Climax Flat 16 cutaway by Allington

Posted Image

and Coventry Climax FWMV.
Cutaway artist ?

Posted Image

Ibsen

#1929 macoran

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 13:34

No idea who did that FWMV Ibsen, a bit odd looking from that angle looking into the V.
Here is Porter's rendering of the Cov Climax H16.
My hardcopy is heavily damaged by fire, water and other wear and tear, the discoloration being mainly the penetration through the paper
of the glue of old Scotch tape.
Thinking back, this image has survived so much through the years, including 12000 kms of global travels.
Posted Image

#1930 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 13:51

and Coventry Climax FWMV.
Cutaway artist ?

Posted Image

Ibsen


Jim Allington - I guarantee it, Ibsen, even though I have never knowingly seen it before. Coincidentaly, Marc, I used a similar viewpoint for my cutaway of the DFX, as I wanted to feature the centrally-mounted timing-gear vibration damper and all its little quill-shafts. However, I realised that I could have used a more normal angle and still shown the damper, or even done a small suplementary illustration of the unit alonside the main cutaway. It's a time-consuming way of learning!

Interesting that your copy of Mr Porter's cutaway has done so many more miles than the engine!

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 July 2009 - 21:57.


#1931 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 14:57

Posted Image

DFX, or most of...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 July 2009 - 14:58.


#1932 alansart

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 15:12

I'm sure this has been asked before but where have all the original artworks gone of Jim Allington, Theo Page, Collins etc. Have they been filed, destroyed or just been lost in the mists of time. Tony obviously has access to a lot of his stuff which has been great for us on here :)

They are part of history and it would be good to think they are somewhere, although I have a feeling that many have disappeared.

I have virtually nothing of the work I've produced over the years apart from a few printed samples. Tony was very wise to keep his.

#1933 macoran

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 18:53

Two BRM V16 renderings.
Vic Berris’
Posted Image
Cresswell’s
Posted Image
The car to go with it. This cutaway by Theo Page. Tony Matthews already posted his V16 BRM some time ago. Anyone have a good Inomoto ?
Posted Image


#1934 macoran

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 19:46

and Coventry Climax FWMV.
Cutaway artist ?

Posted Image

Ibsen


Vic Berris Coventry Climax FWMV on carbs
Posted Image


#1935 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 20:18

Vic Berris Coventry Climax FWMV on carbs
Posted Image

What does 'semi-dry-cast piston' mean? Die-cast?

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 July 2009 - 20:18.


#1936 alansart

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 21:10

What does 'semi-dry-cast piston' mean? Die-cast?


Half cast?

#1937 macoran

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 21:14

What does 'semi-dry-cast piston' mean? Die-cast?


Probably something like it ain't half wet :) stop being silly Marc

I don't know when the term die-cast was first used, but the term semi-dry casting was used in the brick industry for
fast repetitive casting.Today it is used in describing the casting of pre-fab construction elements
For high tolerance ferro casting, I would presume die-casting to be the ideal terminology, mainly because the "mould" has to be
used repeatedly, hence "die".
The main feature of die-casting as we know it today involves pressured injection of the molten metal into the die, whereas I think the
semi-dry-casting referred to still hints back to the pouring of liquefied metal, but, into a (re-recuperable) mould.

I have just re-read this, does anyone know what in tarnation I am talking about ?

Edited by macoran, 11 July 2009 - 21:27.


#1938 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 21:41

Probably something like it ain't half wet :) stop being silly Marc

I don't know when the term die-cast was first used, but the term semi-dry casting was used in the brick industry for
fast repetitive casting.Today it is used in describing the casting of pre-fab construction elements
For high tolerance ferro casting, I would presume die-casting to be the ideal terminology, mainly because the "mould" has to be
used repeatedly, hence "die".
The main feature of die-casting as we know it today involves pressured injection of the molten metal into the die, whereas I think the
semi-dry-casting referred to still hints back to the pouring of liquefied metal, but, into a (re-recuperable) mould.

I have just re-read this, does anyone know what in tarnation I am talking about ?

No.

#1939 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 21:48

Half cast?

Outcast? Typecast? Overcast? Castaway? Open cast? Broadcast? Halfcast? Forecast? Glucose? Hovercraft?...Nurse!

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#1940 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 22:16

I'm sure this has been asked before but where have all the original artworks gone of Jim Allington, Theo Page, Collins etc. Have they been filed, destroyed or just been lost in the mists of time. Tony obviously has access to a lot of his stuff which has been great for us on here :)

They are part of history and it would be good to think they are somewhere, although I have a feeling that many have disappeared.

I have virtually nothing of the work I've produced over the years apart from a few printed samples. Tony was very wise to keep his.


I don't think I have been particularly wise , Alan, if I had been I'd be better off! I just felt strongly attached to (most) of my illustrations, and having discovered the common fate of artwork, and hearing the chorus of anger and dismay from other, non-technical, illustrators I decided to see what the reaction would be if I stuck out for posession unless an extra fee was paid. To my surprise there was no argument, and I carried on, and as a result have most of my original artwork.

Jim Allington auctioned his collection, I don't know if any pieces were held back, or if they all sold, rancethebus seems to know a lot about this - where is he when you need him? As to the others, I really don't know, I have a small stack of Bill Bennet's originals in safe-keeping, a friend who worked for IPC some years ago told me that, once published, artwork was treated with distain, sometimes used as backing-board and generally uncared for. There are probably small collections of original cutaways about the country, mostly, I suspect, forgotten or not appreciated. We rely on enthusiasts like macoran, ibsenop and others to keep the flame burning!

I imagine - but could well be wrong - that computer-generated artwork arouses a different emotion, I feel that there is probably a greater tie to a sheet of line- or watercolour board with real marks on it... but the pride or dismay at the outcome is probably the same!

Edited by Tony Matthews, 11 July 2009 - 22:17.


#1941 ibsenop

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 00:19

A better copy of the Allington Coventry Climax Flat 16

Posted Image

Coventry Climax FPF four-cylinder Twin-cam by Allington

Posted Image

and a Brooke-Weston V8 by Theo Page

Bevel gears distribution, dual spark plugs per cylinder, four overhead camshafts, three valves per cylinder, four dual-choke Solex carbs, two magnetos, two water pumps and four gear-type oil pumps.

Posted Image

Ibsen

#1942 macoran

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:24

Are those pics all from the same book Ibsen ? What's it's title and ISBN ?

and a Brooke-Weston V8 by Theo Page

Bevel gears distribution, dual spark plugs per cylinder, four overhead camshafts, three valves per cylinder, four dual-choke Solex carbs, two magnetos, two water pumps and four gear-type oil pumps.

Posted Image

Ibsen


Here is some background info on the Brooke Weston engine.
http://forums.autosp...showtopic=45835

Edited by macoran, 12 July 2009 - 10:26.


#1943 Rancethebus

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:44

I don't think I have been particularly wise , Alan, if I had been I'd be better off! I just felt strongly attached to (most) of my illustrations, and having discovered the common fate of artwork, and hearing the chorus of anger and dismay from other, non-technical, illustrators I decided to see what the reaction would be if I stuck out for posession unless an extra fee was paid. To my surprise there was no argument, and I carried on, and as a result have most of my original artwork.

Jim Allington auctioned his collection, I don't know if any pieces were held back, or if they all sold, rancethebus seems to know a lot about this - where is he when you need him? As to the others, I really don't know, I have a small stack of Bill Bennet's originals in safe-keeping, a friend who worked for IPC some years ago told me that, once published, artwork was treated with distain, sometimes used as backing-board and generally uncared for. There are probably small collections of original cutaways about the country, mostly, I suspect, forgotten or not appreciated. We rely on enthusiasts like macoran, ibsenop and others to keep the flame burning!

I imagine - but could well be wrong - that computer-generated artwork arouses a different emotion, I feel that there is probably a greater tie to a sheet of line- or watercolour board with real marks on it... but the pride or dismay at the outcome is probably the same!


Rancethebus really is here when you need him. The Autocar and Motor Archive illustrations were sold over 3 years from 1999 - 2001. They were first sold by Christies auction house and then by Bonhams. One was a complete on-line auction that Bonhams did. As you can imagine there were various illustrations from flat side-view to full colour cutaway.
They ranged from Millar, Ferguson, Cresswell, Gordon-Crosby to Theo Page et al.
I went to the last one which was held at Bonhams sale room in Chelsea. as I live in the West Country this was quite a day out for me. I bought about a dozen illustrations and was aware that I was being outbid on many illustrations by one man who I later found out was a dealer called Motoring Art based in Kent. He must have bought over £10000 worth. He usually has a stall at the Festival of Speed and the Goodwood Revival.
I noticed in the auction that there were many unsold lots and put in an offer to Mr Verdon-Roe, the Managing Director of Haymarket Publishing that were selling the items. He accepted and I ended up with over 500 illustrations of one sort or another. I have to stress that some of these were in a shocking state. I did however acquire two Gordon-Crosby's, about 20 Max Millar and the same number by John Ferguson. However very few of these were motor-sport related so we are looking at the majority of them being 1930's to 1950's run of the mill British family saloons. The quality of the ones by John Ferguson however were my favourite. Over the years I sold most of them as I am only a lowly-paid technical illustrator with a penchant for buying rubbish cars, a large mortgage and two children to support. I have one or two left including a Millar and two by Hatton, both in colour. Cest la vie. I was however disgusted to see the way that these "works of art" were treated. As Tony says they were just used as pin-boards or for mounting. Most were filthy, damp had got into many of them and the layers of the board were separating. They nearly all had loss to the corners.
Oh the joys of being a technical illustrator. 36 years now man and boy.

#1944 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 17:30

Rancethebus really is here when you need him. I was however disgusted to see the way that these "works of art" were treated. As Tony says they were just used as pin-boards or for mounting. Most were filthy, damp had got into many of them and the layers of the board were separating. They nearly all had loss to the corners.

Thanks, R, I don't like to be right when it involves damage and destruction to original artwork, but you tell it as I was told, or knew first hand. Even if the illustrations are well-documented, existing original artwork has value, not necessarily monetary, but some poor bugger put blood, sweat and possibly tears into it - it means something.

#1945 macoran

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 22:29

existing original artwork has value, ......................................... it means something.


Sounds shameful, how somethings of value are manhandled.
I only wish I had had the foresight years ago to start spending money on automotive art rather than on racing and cars themselves.
You can bet your bottom dollar the work would have been in good hands, if I had been caretaking of them.
I would have thought most work would have been with LAT nowadays.
No wonder all the letters I have sent to editors of various magazines to start a series of cutaways fell on deaf men's ears !

Tony I congratulate you for hanging in and keeping your work,...........and above all for sharing it with us today.
:up: a big hand !

Edited by macoran, 12 July 2009 - 22:41.


#1946 Tony Matthews

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 23:08

I only wish I had had the foresight years ago to start spending money on automotive art rather than on racing and cars themselves.
You can bet your bottom dollar the work would have been in good hands, if I had been caretaking of them.

Yes, Marc, I know you would have been an exemplary custodian, but don't have regrets, regrets are a waste of emotion.

#1947 Rancethebus

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 10:11

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the British boys' paper, Eagle, had lots of good cutaways of road and race cars in the late 50's. "Fisher" was the artist on the race cars, eg, Auto Union, Cooper Monaco, and others that I still have, while Roy Cross did some road cars. I just had a quick glance, so don't know if there were other artists involved too.

Vince H.

A book has been launched now covering "The Eagle" cutaways. If anyone is interested, it is called the "Eagle Annual of the Cutaways".

#1948 Rancethebus

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:20

Thanks, R, I don't like to be right when it involves damage and destruction to original artwork, but you tell it as I was told, or knew first hand. Even if the illustrations are well-documented, existing original artwork has value, not necessarily monetary, but some poor bugger put blood, sweat and possibly tears into it - it means something.


Tony I was wondering have you passed on your vast array of illustrating skills to someone in the same way that Jim Allington did to you? I know illustrations are "constructed" in a completely different electronic format nowadays. In fact a simple yet complex illustration can be constructed in minutes from CAD drawings. The skills that you have acquired will not be passed on by "natural" progression due to the modern "nature of the beast." I know that in years to come, somebody will be able to buy an old book that shows you how to illustrate in the "old" way but it will not be the same as learning from a master.
Are you aware that for about the last ten years, there is has not been one establishment in the UK where you can train to become a technical illustrator? It is just assumed now that a graphic artist will be able to pick up the skills in a very short time, which, with respect they can. However, in almost 100% of cases they cannot read engineering drawings.
Having been an illustrator for 36 years, nearly entirely in the aerospace industry, it has also been very frustrating to be thought less highly than a technical author. I was always taught that a picture painted a thousand words. That may be a simple statement but I think that the problem over years has been that some illustrators in my field at least have made the job seem easy to others. The backdraught of this from an illustrators point of view is that compared to technical authors, we have been lower paid. In the Aerospace field, these authors have nearly all been ex-military personnel who have MOD pensions on top of their salaries. In a technical publications environment that makes you feel even more under valued.
I have recently learned through applying for an Aerospace vacancy that there are now very few technical illustrators left out there. It is a dying profession. They have moved to other fields of graphics or just gone and done something completely different with less hastle. Of the sixteen people that qualified from the Technical Graphics course that I attended in Cornwall, I think I am the only one (idiot) still illustrating.

#1949 Tony Matthews

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:49

I will have to reply later, R, it's wierd, I've just come back from a marathon session at the dentist's, and somehow not being able to talk properly seems to have affected my thought processes and my typing ability! I now have a piratical glint of gold when I smile, don't know if it will make me more or less popular with the ladies - only one way to find out...

#1950 Rancethebus

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 12:51

I will have to reply later, R, it's wierd, I've just come back from a marathon session at the dentist's, and somehow not being able to talk properly seems to have affected my thought processes and my typing ability! I now have a piratical glint of gold when I smile, don't know if it will make me more or less popular with the ladies - only one way to find out...


Good luck Tony.