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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#2101 elno

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 21:54

Tony, have you the final result of this work on penske shock ? Is it possible that you scan and upload it on this topic ? I am very curious to discover it.

Edited by elno, 06 August 2009 - 21:57.


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#2102 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:05

Tony, have you the final result of this work on penske shock ? Is it possible that you scan and upload it on this topic ? I am very curious to discover it.

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This is the best I can do, elno, as the only transparency I have is too big ( 25cm x 20cm) for my scanner, so this is scanned from a Polaroid print, very low resolution.

#2103 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:45

This is the best I can do, elno, as the only transparency I have is too big ( 25cm x 20cm) for my scanner,

Tony, Tony !!! you know us ! scan it in bits if you will, one of us'll do the knitting......it deserves a better rendition than the polaroid,
cause the WD is just fabulous in it's detailing.

#2104 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:53

Tony, Tony !!! you know us ! scan it in bits if you will, one of us'll do the knitting......it deserves a better rendition than the polaroid,
cause the WD is just fabulous in it's detailing.

Marc, the transparency has to be in a holder, if you lay it straight on the glass the scanner can't focus, I've tried it. The 5"X4" holder works well, but they don't supply a 10"X8" holder. I have a jpeg on DVD, a copy of one that I had done for Penske Shocks recently, as they have 'lost' the originals, but my crap software can't cope with it. If I had a copy of the big trannie I would cut it up and scan the bits!

#2105 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:55

I would cut it up and scan the bits!

don't you dare think of ever doing that !!


p.s. the jpeg on the DVD could be mailed couldn't it ?

Edited by macoran, 06 August 2009 - 22:56.


#2106 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:57

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TAA DAA! I found a version I could work with! It looks a bit odd to me, as though it's been over-sharpened in photoshop, but a lot better than the polaroid version! I cleaned the background - did a cut-out - but the cut edges should be done too, but it is incredibly tedious without photoshop and a tablet would help, too. Dear Father Christmas, I have been very good all year, just ask Gwendolyn...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 06 August 2009 - 23:09.


#2107 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:59

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You are brilliant!

or else I am for egging you on :rotfl:

Edited by macoran, 06 August 2009 - 23:50.


#2108 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 22:59

Up to a about 1-1/2 years ago, I had a brief stint with the Guild of Automotive Restorers out of Bradford, Ontario.

I discovered in a lunchtime walkabout what I believe was the shell and some of the running gear of a Maser Mistral out in the elements in the pasture used for storage behind the building. It was in a sorry state and less engine. Makes you weep. Still, if you've got the bucks...

TY for posting the cutaway of the Mistral, Marc.

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, 06 August 2009 - 23:00.


#2109 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 23:02

Up to a about 1-1/2 years ago, I had a brief stint with the Guild of Automotive Restorers out of Bradford, Ontario.

I discovered in a lunchtime walkabout what I believe was the shell and some of the running gear of a Maser Mistral out in the elements in the pasture used for storage behind the building. It was in a sorry state and less engine. Makes you weep. Still, if you've got the bucks...

TY for posting the cutaway of the Mistral, Marc.



Glad you liked it Manfred

:rotfl: we'll be hitting 3000 a lot sooner this way

Edited by macoran, 06 August 2009 - 23:04.


#2110 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 23:15

Bruno's Ferrari 500 Superfast
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#2111 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 23:23

Bruno's Ferrari 500 Superfast
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I've just noticed something Marc - apart from the use of red to indicate the cut edges on the Ferrari - but I think both these early Betti's were very much based on photographs. What indicates that to me is the tyre side-wall detail, and tone, they look very photographic, and slightly different to the rest of the illustration. Nothing wrong with that, of course, just an observation. I don't know when the Bettis started, but they, or at least Bruno, seemed to hit their stride fairly quickly!

Glad you like the damper!

#2112 macoran

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 23:39

A bit of Betti history I am working on.
Giulio was born in 1933, Bruno is ten years younger.
Giulio's first cutaway was the Fiat 124 in the mid sixties, done for Quattroruote. The brothers spent many years of
their working life drawing for Quattroruote and later the German magazine Auto Zeitung as well.

#2113 ibsenop

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 23:59

Tony, I think the Betti's cut glass because reflections on the glass could hide some details.

Here my favorite sports car.

Lamborghini Miura P400 by Giulio Betti.

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and Lamborghini Miura chassis by Vic Berris

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Ibsen

Edited by ibsenop, 07 August 2009 - 00:06.


#2114 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 04:48

Tony, I think the Betti's cut glass because reflections on the glass could hide some details.

As the illustrator, Ibsen, you can decide where the reflections are, or leave them out. It doesn't make sense to me to cut something that is transparent - but it is all down to individual taste.

#2115 elno

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 11:53

wouaah beautiful :love:

a big thanks Tony !!!

#2116 elno

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 13:48

well well well, this flash animation remind me of something (english correct term ?)... but what ? :drunk:



#2117 elno

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 14:55

i like details like porosity seen on the cut of the spring,... . (although, i suppose, it is not the most difficult to draw ...)

#2118 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 16:47

i like details like porosity seen on the cut of the spring,... . (although, i suppose, it is not the most difficult to draw ...)

It's not strictly porosity, just an attempt to make it look a bit more interesting, I may have overdone it a bit on the Penske job - sometimes artwork looks slightly different when it is scanned. When I did a cutaway of the Riccardo/Audi Le Mans gearbox I added a bit of stipple on the cut sections of the main casting - only to be asked by Riccardo to remove it and just add a bit of tint. I asked why, and didn't get a straight answer, and then it dawned on me. 'Did you have a problem with porous castings?' I asked. Guess what the slightly embarrassed answer was!

#2119 elno

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 19:06

you are frighteningly efficient, Tony.
"No more question, please" is it what had been asked to you after that ? ;)
(although in le mans racing, there are less paranoid crisis than in F1).

Edited by elno, 07 August 2009 - 19:07.


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#2120 elno

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 19:10

a drawing of the lotus 72 (signed by G. Piola)

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Edited by elno, 07 August 2009 - 19:16.


#2121 275 GTB-4

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 05:33

cooper997 wrote:

It's only in the last couple of days I've taken the time to have a read through this thread on Martyn's experience with Kieft V8's and the SEL V8. What an enjoyable read and an incredible find.

I don't think I've read any reference to it throughout the thread, but in Autosport's annual 'High-performance cars 1954-55' edition there's a 2 page feature 'A Grand Prix Project - The Kieft'. With a nice big cutaway drawing and reasonable amount of text. If anybody wants to read it or post it on this thread then drop me a message with an email address.

Stephen


#2122 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 10:15

a drawing of the lotus 72 (signed by G. Piola)

Thanks Elno, I was missing that one from my Piola collection !

Anymore good Piola drawings ?

Edited by macoran, 08 August 2009 - 12:12.


#2123 elno

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 15:27

@Macoran: Yes, i have some other Piola's drawings (but no cutaway), essentially from the middle of '90.
If you are interested by it, tell me, i will post them. (have you any car/team preference ? )

#2124 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 15:44

@Macoran: Yes, i have some other Piola's drawings (but no cutaway), essentially from the middle of '90.
If you are interested by it, tell me, i will post them. (have you any car/team preference ? )

Essentially I am interested in all and anything, no team or model preferences.

#2125 elno

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 15:48

ok :)

have you already piola's ones from 95-96 seasons ?

#2126 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 15:59

ok :)

have you already piola's ones from 95-96 seasons ?

No, because they usually appeared in Italian magazines, and I cannot get them in Holland any more.
So they would be welcome !!

#2127 ibsenop

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 17:27

Not a car but a beautiful cutaway of a fantastic motorcycle.

MV Agusta 1970 cutaway by Giulio Betti.

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Ibsen

#2128 elno

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 17:35

Here 5 piola's drawings (1995 ferrari, mc laren and williams cars)

http://img81.imagesh...=williams95.jpg

#2129 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 20:52

Thanks Ibsen and elno !!

here is Michael Stirms's Mercedes FO110E V10
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published in the 1997 AutoMotorSport F1 Annual

Edited by macoran, 08 August 2009 - 20:54.


#2130 macoran

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 21:06

Betti Alfa Romeo 33TT12 engine
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#2131 elno

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 13:33

Thanks Ibsenop and Macoran ... superb drawing of mercedes-benz v10 ; was there a explanatory caption with it ?

#2132 macoran

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 14:02

Thanks Ibsenop and Macoran ... superb drawing of mercedes-benz v10 ; was there a explanatory caption with it ?

It was part of a 3 page story on Mercedes/Ilmor/Illien.
There was a little caption I neglected to mention,................The engine is built up of 6061 parts !

#2133 elno

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 14:31

ok, thanks

#2134 ibsenop

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 15:22

Alfa Romeo P2 1924

No cutaway artist credit. Betti? Rosso?

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Ibsen

#2135 macoran

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 17:53

Alfa Romeo P2 1924

No cutaway artist credit. Betti? Rosso?

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Ibsen

I wouldn't dare say Ibsen. If a Betti, a very early one by either, the brake drums are a bit too simply drawn for my taste.
I do like, and wonder about only "Romeo" on the cam cover.

Here is a Bruno Betti though.
Martini Porsche 935 Turbo, I think also often called Moby Dick

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Edited by macoran, 09 August 2009 - 20:22.


#2136 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 20:55

Alfa Romeo P2 1924

No cutaway artist credit. Betti? Rosso?

Posted Image

Ibsen

I would guess Rosso, Ibsen, but as Marc said, it isn't straight-forward. I am intrigued that both the Betti's and Sr Rosso had such similar styles, that the Betti brothers work is similar is, I suppose, not such a surprise - on reflection, as their work tended to appear in the same publications perhaps they were asked to produce matching work. I don't know how I would have reacted if I'd had a brother who illustrated. I tried to make my work look different to others, I think I might have tried to look different to that 'brother' too!

#2137 Henri Greuter

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 07:23

Martini Porsche 935 Turbo, I think also often called Moby Dick

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Yes, this is `Moby Dick`.

I recall seeing that car on the RAI at Amasterdam in February 1979 and thinking this to be the ultimate development of the 911.
Little did we know it would go even more extreme with 959/961 and the 911GT1 yet to come....

Henri

#2138 DHFiallo

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 16:02

Not exactly a cut away, but I took this picture at Mid -Ohio this past weekend and I thought of you guys and how nice it would be to see what a cutaway would look like. This is the Lola Mazda MZR as raced by Dyson racing in the ALMS.
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I sort of felt like I was Tony. Trying to take picture, yet not be in the way. Atleast they let me take pictures unlike the "Diesel" camp and their paranoid secrecy.

Edited by DHFiallo, 10 August 2009 - 16:10.


#2139 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 17:18

I sort of felt like I was Tony.

I wish sometimes that I could feel like I was someone else, but I'm lumbered with me... Ah, all those blue and gold bits, the polished ali...nice photo.

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#2140 macoran

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 20:07

but I'm lumbered with me...

for someone who handles a bit of wood now and then !
ad lignum !

Edited by macoran, 10 August 2009 - 20:08.


#2141 macoran

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 22:10

Another Betti Porsche
81/82 LeMans 924 320bhp turbo
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#2142 macoran

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 22:17

Great bit of study material for space frame wannabees
Ira Epton Elva Mk VIII
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anybody ever seen more of Ira Epton's (his/her ?? work) I don't really know, but could Ira be a Welsh male name ?

#2143 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 22:29

ad lignum !

Ad lignum. ? To the wood? To the woods?

'To the woods!'

'I'll tell the vicar!'

'I am the vicar - to the woods!'

Ira Epton was/is on the staff of 'Flight' magazine Marc, and I am not sure if it is a male name or not, never seen any auto work before...I have a suspiscion that I asked a friend who used to work for the publisher, but I can't remember his answer! If no-one else knows I'll ask him again.

#2144 ibsenop

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 23:07

Porsche 956 by Bruno Betti

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Ibsen

#2145 Stephen Miller

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 02:00

" Atleast they let me take pictures unlike the "Diesel" camp and their paranoid secrecy."


The paranoid secrecy does get a bit tedious after a while doesn't it! It makes you wonder why we should be impressed with super secret black box technology? I wonder how Acura had a copy of the Audi rear wing mount before the R15 was even launched? Or perhaps it was the other way around? Acura seems to be very open about their technology. Nice to see that Mazda is too!

Edited by Stephen Miller, 11 August 2009 - 02:01.


#2146 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:39

The paranoid secrecy does get a bit tedious after a while doesn't it! It makes you wonder why we should be impressed with super secret black box technology?

I can understand a degree of secrecy, it must be very frustrating, not to say costly, to spend months refining an idea only for one photograph to hand that idea to every other team - but it does get out of hand sometimes. I never liked deliberately altering detail to hide the reality, but if the client, or the client's constructor, says that is how it must be - you do it. Everyone who saw my reference photos was always more concerened about them being seen than the cutaway, which may say a lot about my illustrations! As I am not an engineer it may well be that some small detail of chassis construction visible in a photo taken iside a footwell, that I considered more or less insignificant, was any thing but to an F1 design engineer.

A chief mechanic once got very twitchy about me photographing some Moog valves, particularly the part numbers on the label - whereas the chief designer had no problem, saying that the hydraulic seals were the vital secret ingredient, and they couldn't be seen!

It is a shame, though, that it has got to the point, or has been for some time, when an innocent photo of the rear end of a competition car with the bodywork off is cause for such paranoia. There was a time - before mine he added hastily - when a bonnet would be lifted with pride, and the gleaming machinary displayed to all and sundry.

#2147 Duc-Man

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 14:38

There was a time - before mine he added hastily - when a bonnet would be lifted with pride, and the gleaming machinary displayed to all and sundry.


I know exactly what you mean. I went to the Nürburgring last thursday for my annual OGP paddock photo session.
Some guy pulled up with a Jaguar C-type. I took a picture when he got out of the car. The next thing this guy did was walking around the front of the car to open the hood. Just like he wanted me to take a shot of the engine. And I did.

I'll post that on the 'Historic Festivals' threat.

#2148 DHFiallo

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 15:15

I just find it interesting that they would be alarmed by a fan taking a photograph. I think that if I was really up to some industrial espionage that I'd have better kit. If any manufacturers out there would like to buy me some better hardware you can PM me. I can see myself now: Hiding in a thicket for days on end without bathing just to get that elusive shot of XYZ's new development!

#2149 Tony Matthews

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 15:42

I just find it interesting that they would be alarmed by a fan taking a photograph. I think that if I was really up to some industrial espionage that I'd have better kit. If any manufacturers out there would like to buy me some better hardware you can PM me. I can see myself now: Hiding in a thicket for days on end without bathing just to get that elusive shot of XYZ's new development!

DH, if you were a team boss and wanted photo's of a rival car, would you employ a guy using a macro lens on a professional body, complete with macro- or ring-flash, who gave the impression that he knew what he was looking for? Or an 'innocent' fan with a point-and-shoot or compact?

As for hiding in a thicket, you'd probably be rubbing elbows with a wild-life photographer, smelling as iffy as you!

#2150 Esprit

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 21:28

I found this : http://audiusanews.c...amp;method=view

Problem: The Audi of America section of the Audi media site has been upgraded. You must be a working journalist or analyst to access this portion of the site. Once approved, you will receive an email with your login and password to enter here.

Can anyone download cutaway drawings from this site? No cutaheads

Edited by Esprit, 11 August 2009 - 23:57.