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The cutaway drawing and its artists


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#3351 TWest

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 22:21

[quote name='B Squared' date='Jan 5 2010, 06:12' post='4065229']
From Sports Car Illustrated August, 1960. Griff Borgeson article Project Time Machine-The Magic of a Name - a Miller powered "Lakester". Brian

Interesting, as the original car was shown in Hot Rod, August, 1950. It ran a Pontiac 6, never a first choice for any hot rod project that I ever heard of, bar this one. Eddie Miller, Junior, son of the Indy driver built the car to do Bonneville and the Pike's Peak Rally.
The car was built over a three year period, and was built around that Pontiac powerplant.
Not sure if that adds anything here, but that article seems to have changed the idea of the car a little.
Tom West

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#3352 ABG

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:06

Tony
Please excuse me if you find this annoying but I find myself playing with another of your postings. On page 13 of the thread you posted a damaged slide of an unfinished PC11 drawing. This is a composite before and after of the posting after my fumbling with the image.

http://img706.images...nskeunfin2.jpg/

My only excuse is that it's cold, snowing and I've quit smoking. My search for a life remains futile.

Al

#3353 B Squared

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:26

From Sports Car Illustrated August, 1960. Griff Borgeson article Project Time Machine-The Magic of a Name - a Miller powered "Lakester". Brian

Interesting, as the original car was shown in Hot Rod, August, 1950. It ran a Pontiac 6, never a first choice for any hot rod project that I ever heard of, bar this one. Eddie Miller, Junior, son of the Indy driver built the car to do Bonneville and the Pike's Peak Rally.
The car was built over a three year period, and was built around that Pontiac powerplant.
Not sure if that adds anything here, but that article seems to have changed the idea of the car a little.
Tom West



Tom, the following text is an excerpt from what Griff Borgeson had to write in the article mentioned above. Borgeson is describing Mark Dees' acquisition of his Miller engines. B²

Given a brace of Miller engines, what do you do with them other than polish and admire them? While awaiting the arrival of his engines Mark Dees had been sleuthing on his own. He tracked down the whereabouts and availability of the Eddie Miller lakester. This machine powered, oddly enough by a 248-cubic-inch Pontiac flathead six engine, clocked 162 mph at Bonneville in 1953. The remarkable workmanship on this somewhat -vintage straight-away car betrays its thoroughbred lineage. It was designed and built by Eddie Miller Jr. (Harry's nephew), with the important assistance of Eddie Sr. (Harry's brother) . Eddie Sr. was a prominent mecanicien ("mechanic" simply isn't the word for these practical engineers) with Duesenberg, later with Miller, Lockhart and others. He is remembered particularly in Southern California for his key part in the dry lakes duel between Gary Cooper's Duesenberg SJ and Zeppo Marx's Mercedes-Benz SS. Both Eddies worked with Hilborn on the early development of his fuel injection system. Considerable work on the lakester was done by Jim Nairn, the master experimental machinist who has played a vital part in the Scarab Formula 1 program. Dees now has added the Miller lakester to his stable and has plans to power it with various engines, including, hopefully, at least one of Gwenda's Millers. Will the circle be unbroken? We'll see -GB

#3354 Jones Foyer

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 03:16

Lots of great Honda material there Jones Foyer !!
Any chance you have a better RA301 ?
Posted Image


That's an interesting drawing. The exhaust is routed under and over the rear wishbones- the car didn't race like that- must be drawn after the prototype.

Here's Ken's great drawing:

Posted Image

http://www.flickr.co...287581/sizes/l/




#3355 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:49

... I find myself playing with another of your postings. This is a composite before and after of the posting after my fumbling with the image.

http://img706.images...nskeunfin2.jpg/


Al

Not annoying at all, Al, thank you for lavishing all this effort on my grubby little posts! That has worked really well, the background looks completely clean and the painting looks accurate as far as colour caste, so I would say it is spot on.

I stopped smoking for the last and final time about four years ago, I hardly miss it now - there is the occasional fleeting moment, with a beer at hand and with friends who smoke, when I think it would be nice - but I know it would taste disgusting now, and I don't want to get into all that again! Life isn't futile, it just seems that way at times, and sometimes the harder you look, the more difficult it is to see.

#3356 Duc-Man

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 11:31

Talking 'bout old honda f-1s: how about Inomoto's RA271?

http://www.khulsey.c...rmula_1_lg.jpeg

#3357 Jones Foyer

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 16:18

Talking 'bout old honda f-1s: how about Inomoto's RA271?

http://www.khulsey.c...rmula_1_lg.jpeg


That's the RA272. Very cool. Strange that Phil Hill signed it!

Edited by Jones Foyer, 06 January 2010 - 16:20.


#3358 Kuprecht

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 16:24

Coming back to my earlier post nr. 2613, looking for Lola T140 or T142 cutaways, I found out that Brian Hatton must have done a T140. In 2005 Bonhams auctioned a "Lola 140 Formula A" drawing by Hatton for £115...but I haven't seen it yet.

Or does someone remember a T140 or T142 drawing in one of the magazines he worked for, perhaps 67, 68 or 69?

#3359 TWest

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 18:50

From Sports Car Illustrated August, 1960. Griff Borgeson article Project Time Machine-The Magic of a Name - a Miller powered "Lakester". Brian

Interesting, as the original car was shown in Hot Rod, August, 1950. It ran a Pontiac 6, never a first choice for any hot rod project that I ever heard of, bar this one. Eddie Miller, Junior, son of the Indy driver built the car to do Bonneville and the Pike's Peak Rally.
The car was built over a three year period, and was built around that Pontiac powerplant.
Not sure if that adds anything here, but that article seems to have changed the idea of the car a little.
Tom West



Tom, the following text is an excerpt from what Griff Borgeson had to write in the article mentioned above. Borgeson is describing Mark Dees' acquisition of his Miller engines. B²

Given a brace of Miller engines, what do you do with them other than polish and admire them? While awaiting the arrival of his engines Mark Dees had been sleuthing on his own. He tracked down the whereabouts and availability of the Eddie Miller lakester. This machine powered, oddly enough by a 248-cubic-inch Pontiac flathead six engine, clocked 162 mph at Bonneville in 1953. The remarkable workmanship on this somewhat -vintage straight-away car betrays its thoroughbred lineage. It was designed and built by Eddie Miller Jr. (Harry's nephew), with the important assistance of Eddie Sr. (Harry's brother) . Eddie Sr. was a prominent mecanicien ("mechanic" simply isn't the word for these practical engineers) with Duesenberg, later with Miller, Lockhart and others. He is remembered particularly in Southern California for his key part in the dry lakes duel between Gary Cooper's Duesenberg SJ and Zeppo Marx's Mercedes-Benz SS. Both Eddies worked with Hilborn on the early development of his fuel injection system. Considerable work on the lakester was done by Jim Nairn, the master experimental machinist who has played a vital part in the Scarab Formula 1 program. Dees now has added the Miller lakester to his stable and has plans to power it with various engines, including, hopefully, at least one of Gwenda's Millers. Will the circle be unbroken? We'll see -GB


Wonder if it was ever completed. I haven't seen anything on it at all, but I wasn't really looking for anything but cutaways so it went right by me. Of course, I was about 12 at the time this would have been written. The original Hot Rod article talked about how the car was getting more obsolete as they were building it, and that would have been in the late 40s. I suppose that it wold have still worked for the Salt Flats ten years later. It did look to be pretty well built.
Of course, I suppose that the writing was probably not overly investigative in those old Hot Rods, so talking about Eddie Mille (Sr.,) as a driver, but not really mentioning the mechanical part is not a real surprise.
Tom West

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#3360 macoran

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 19:17

- there is the occasional fleeting moment, with a beer at hand and with friends who smoke, when I think it would be nice -


I probably have too many fleeting moments with beer at hand !

#3361 Jones Foyer

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 19:21

I probably have too many fleeting moments with beer at hand !


If you manage to keep the beer in your hand, that's OK. It's when you lose track of the beer as well as the moment that the trouble starts.


#3362 TWest

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 21:01

I probably have too many fleeting moments with beer at hand !


I envy the process. Used to drink my share of beer, but realized that I had a tough time with any of the design and illustration stuff. I had a tough enough time without the extra enhancement, so with it I was pretty much useless ... at least that was the excuse ...
Always envied the rock-star lifestyle ... I tried playing piano (which I was fairly reasonable at) and couldn't do that while "enhanced" either ...
Tom West

#3363 GTO

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 21:35

Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
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#3364 GTO

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 21:37

then the Renault 5 Turbo

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I don't know who's the author

#3365 GTO

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 21:39

Lancia 037 Rally

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Copyright ?

#3366 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 22:39

I probably have too many fleeting moments with beer at hand !

I've noticed, Marc!

#3367 Tony Matthews

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 22:50

I envy the process. Used to drink my share of beer, but realized that I had a tough time with any of the design and illustration stuff. I had a tough enough time without the extra enhancement, so with it I was pretty much useless ... at least that was the excuse ...
Always envied the rock-star lifestyle ... I tried playing piano (which I was fairly reasonable at) and couldn't do that while "enhanced" either ...
Tom West

I have always, or until very recently, been what some people would call a heavy drinker. However, like you Tom I realised very early in my illustrating career that I could not mix the two. As my ability to bounce back from a session slowed, so I cut back on the booze, and during my busiest years I was virtually tee-total for the four months that I was doing new Indycar cutaways, just an evening in the pub after finishing each painting, then back on the wagon. Strangely, the reason was not so much that the drink impaired my ability, but it reduced the fear of missing a deadline, the main motivator in my life!

#3368 TWest

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:33

I have always, or until very recently, been what some people would call a heavy drinker. However, like you Tom I realised very early in my illustrating career that I could not mix the two. As my ability to bounce back from a session slowed, so I cut back on the booze, and during my busiest years I was virtually tee-total for the four months that I was doing new Indycar cutaways, just an evening in the pub after finishing each painting, then back on the wagon. Strangely, the reason was not so much that the drink impaired my ability, but it reduced the fear of missing a deadline, the main motivator in my life!


Well expressed motivations there. It could probably also be a bit of growing up, although I really don't want to do that completely.
Will, however, buy a round if we are ever in the same region of the world ... let's not get too serious here ...
Tom West

#3369 B Squared

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:09

From Sports Car Illustrated , June, 1960. This is Alec Issigonis' Lightweight Special. B²

Posted Image

#3370 Tony Matthews

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 22:44

Posted Image

Williams FW19. I don't think I've posted this before, in fact I'm sure, it was the FW18 that I posted a little while ago. I must print out Ibsen's Index! Anyway, this was a quick modification of the 18 - cutaway, not car - but the differences are not sufficient to merit another 'Spot The Changes' poser, and I'm not quite sure why I posted it! I must check whether I photographed the FW19 in detail, I feel sure I was asked to do some quick, inexpensive changes rather than what I would have liked to do, a new illustration from a different angle.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 07 January 2010 - 22:56.


#3371 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:22

From Sports Car Illustrated , June, 1960. This is Alec Issigonis' Lightweight Special. B²

Posted Image

That is a lovely little car, very nicely illustrated. It is a pleasure when an innovative vehicle is also really pretty, as in this case, or at least good-looking. I don't think you could choose a better viewpoint, much higher and you'd start to lose the profile. Thanks BB

#3372 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:42

Ibsen...thanks for the summary.

I have some more Hondas to add. Two different versions of the R1300 race car, powered by the air-cooled motor from the Honda 1300 sedan/coupe.

The first (by M. Ouchi) cutaway is representative of the actual race car, but the second one is a mystery to me because the body is quite different from anything I've seen pictured- perhaps a concept image before the body was completed?

Posted Image


I haven't seen any of these Honda cutaways before, JF, many thanks. The first one made me - almost - do a classic double-take. The style is so like Jim Allington's, from the 'nibbled' cuts to the cross-hatched shading. If I didn't know I would have guessed that it came from his studio, at the very least. It can be a little frustrating when your style is copied so faithfully, but 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' springs to mind - assuming I've got that right!

Posted Image


The shading on this is just so neat, and probably very fine work, rather than a big reduction from the original. Once or twice I toyed with the idea of shading an ink line cutaway as fine as I could, like a steel engraving (and were those artists talented!), but then lost interest. There is a natural scale at which one feels comfortable, and which will reproduce cleanly. When linework was the order of the day we used to allow for a fairly large reduction, printed on newsprint. The illustration had to still look clean and clear even then. A larger print on quality paper was a bonus.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 08 January 2010 - 09:49.


#3373 TheMpeople

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 22:28

Posted Image

Williams FW19. I don't think I've posted this before, in fact I'm sure, it was the FW18 that I posted a little while ago. I must print out Ibsen's Index! Anyway, this was a quick modification of the 18 - cutaway, not car - but the differences are not sufficient to merit another 'Spot The Changes' poser, and I'm not quite sure why I posted it! I must check whether I photographed the FW19 in detail, I feel sure I was asked to do some quick, inexpensive changes rather than what I would have liked to do, a new illustration from a different angle.

Hi Tony
You posted a black and white pencil sketch of the FW14B in page 20. Is there any chance to see the coloured hi resolution finish FW14B? I am about to start building a 1/12 scale FW14B and looking for reference to super detail it especially how all those hose and electric wire goes.

#3374 Tony Matthews

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 23:28

Hi Tony
You posted a black and white pencil sketch of the FW14B in page 20. Is there any chance to see the coloured hi resolution finish FW14B? I am about to start building a 1/12 scale FW14B and looking for reference to super detail it especially how all those hose and electric wire goes.

Unfortunately, M, I never finished the colour version, nearly all the Williams' that I did were speculative, they were not commissioned, and if something else turned up that was going to pay me, well, the spec. job got put aside! In the case of the 14B more than one job arrived, and by the time I had finished them I had more or less forgotten about the Williams, and it lies in my plan-chest, unfinished, un-loved - but not completely forgotten. Is that the Tamiya kit? If so, I have one too, still in it's box. Someone, somewhere, at one time, was selling a kit of parts to up-grade the active suspension detail, try Googling - in the meantime, I will try to remember who it was that I spoke to about it! Good luck.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 08 January 2010 - 23:34.


#3375 Jones Foyer

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 23:50

I haven't seen any of these Honda cutaways before, JF, many thanks. The first one made me - almost - do a classic double-take. The style is so like Jim Allington's, from the 'nibbled' cuts to the cross-hatched shading. If I didn't know I would have guessed that it came from his studio, at the very least. It can be a little frustrating when your style is copied so faithfully, but 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' springs to mind - assuming I've got that right!



The shading on this is just so neat, and probably very fine work, rather than a big reduction from the original. Once or twice I toyed with the idea of shading an ink line cutaway as fine as I could, like a steel engraving (and were those artists talented!), but then lost interest. There is a natural scale at which one feels comfortable, and which will reproduce cleanly. When linework was the order of the day we used to allow for a fairly large reduction, printed on newsprint. The illustration had to still look clean and clear even then. A larger print on quality paper was a bonus.


I'm not sure if Ouchi (Ouch!) was employed by Honda or not, but I've seen his name attached to many Honda related cutaways. Interesting that he was heavily influenced by Jim Allington.

#3376 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 00:00

I'm not sure if Ouchi (Ouch!) was employed by Honda or not, but I've seen his name attached to many Honda related cutaways. Interesting that he was heavily influenced by Jim Allington.

Well he wasn't the only one, JF! I can't help seeing Ouichi as Ouch! sometimes! Who is 'Ken'? Do you know, or has it been revealed in this thread and I've missed it?

#3377 Jones Foyer

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:15

Well he wasn't the only one, JF! I can't help seeing Ouichi as Ouch! sometimes! Who is 'Ken'? Do you know, or has it been revealed in this thread and I've missed it?


I haven't seen who Ken is yet.

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#3378 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:21

Posted Image

How many of those things are there? I thought I'd killed and eaten the last one, after copulating with it of course, can't turn down the chance of a trick...

#3379 Jones Foyer

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 09:00

How many of those things are there? I thought I'd killed and eaten the last one, after copulating with it of course, can't turn down the chance of a trick...


These things been running around in your vegetable garden?


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#3380 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 10:01

These things been running around in your vegetable garden?

Back in the old days, JF, we had herds of these things that reached the horizon, a stampede would take a week to pass by. Of course, it didn't do the garden much good, which is why I paved it. Having single-handedly thinned 'em out, I thought I'd seen the last of them. We used to call them 'Things', after the Latin 'Thingus thingus'.

#3381 ibsenop

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 16:04

Does I include the Godzilla(?) , 'Things' or "Thingus thingus"(?) cutaway in the TNF cutaway Index?
Who is the artist?

Brazilian 1974 Ford Maverick Super cutaway by unknown artist - In line six cylinders.

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Brazilian 1978 Ford Maverick Four Door chassis cutaway by unknown artist.

Posted Image

Brazilian 1978 Ford Maverick cutaway by unknown artist.

Posted Image

Ibsen

Edited by ibsenop, 09 January 2010 - 16:44.


#3382 Tony Matthews

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 16:21

Brazillian 1974 Ford Maverick Super cutaway by unknown artist - In line six cylinders.

Posted Image

Brazillian 1978 Ford Maverick cutaway by unknown artist.

Posted Image

Ibsen

We will track the artist of the Godzilla Thing, Ibsen, hunt him down like a dog, and add his name to the list.

The Ford Maverick's are nice, neat little jobs, they have a good graphic feel. However I'm a bit suspicious of the angle of the prop. shaft in the last one, it looks strangely steep, especially compared with the first illustration.

#3383 ibsenop

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 16:43

The brazilian 1978 Ford Maverick cutaway seems to me a Walter Brito work.

Ibsen

#3384 TheMpeople

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 22:09

Unfortunately, M, I never finished the colour version, nearly all the Williams' that I did were speculative, they were not commissioned, and if something else turned up that was going to pay me, well, the spec. job got put aside! In the case of the 14B more than one job arrived, and by the time I had finished them I had more or less forgotten about the Williams, and it lies in my plan-chest, unfinished, un-loved - but not completely forgotten. Is that the Tamiya kit? If so, I have one too, still in it's box. Someone, somewhere, at one time, was selling a kit of parts to up-grade the active suspension detail, try Googling - in the meantime, I will try to remember who it was that I spoke to about it! Good luck.



Hi Tony
Yes, it's the Tamiya 1/12 FW14B.
Is the up-grade kit you mentioned made by RB motion or Thunder Valley? Or is it something call Cody Garyland ?

#3385 DOHC

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 10:49

Once or twice I toyed with the idea of shading an ink line cutaway as fine as I could, like a steel engraving (and were those artists talented!), but then lost interest.


Perhaps a different kind of steel engraving than the one you had in mind, but certainly worth admiration...

Left lock plate from side-by-side rifle

Right lock plate

Elephant on left lock, close-up

Elephant on right lock, close-up (would you believe that!)

If it takes us too far away from the cars, I apologize, but I do think it connects to your new elephant-lookalike rear end, and the talk of stampedes...

Edited by DOHC, 10 January 2010 - 10:51.


#3386 macoran

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:23

Elephant on right lock, close-up (would you believe that!)

I was expecting to see it oversteer !


#3387 macoran

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:08

Jean Jacques Francois Tyrrell DG016
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Edited by macoran, 10 January 2010 - 12:09.


#3388 macoran

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:24

And his 1996 7th place (Le Mans) Courage C36 Porsche
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#3389 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:48

Perhaps a different kind of steel engraving than the one you had in mind, but certainly worth admiration...


I think the technique is the same, DOHC, but in negative, rather than the positive seen here, and then inked and transfered to paper. I have a niggling feeling, however, that some of this work is not hand-engraving. I may be wrong, but it would not surprise me to learn that photgraphy has played a part. It seems to lack the sharpness that you get with traditional engraving.



If it takes us too far away from the cars, I apologize, but I do think it connects to your new elephant-lookalike rear end, and the talk of stampedes...

We always drift back to cutaways of cars, but I enjoy the occasional drift into other regions of Cutawayland. The backside belongs to a rhinoceros that prevented a stampede at Whipsnade Zoological Gardens by selflessly blocking the only exit.

#3390 DOHC

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 13:17

I was expecting to see it oversteer !


It is the opposite lock, though...  ;)

#3391 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 13:57

Ooh! Quick repartee! Both barrels, too!

#3392 goro

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 14:28

Jean Jacques Francois Tyrrell DG016
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Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#3393 Tom Johnson

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 16:47

Posted Image

Williams FW19. I don't think I've posted this before, in fact I'm sure, it was the FW18 that I posted a little while ago. I must print out Ibsen's Index! Anyway, this was a quick modification of the 18 - cutaway, not car - but the differences are not sufficient to merit another 'Spot The Changes' poser, and I'm not quite sure why I posted it! I must check whether I photographed the FW19 in detail, I feel sure I was asked to do some quick, inexpensive changes rather than what I would have liked to do, a new illustration from a different angle.


Yo Tony. I'm curious - On a job like this FW19, how much time is involved from the moment you have all of your reference in hand and the last brush stroke is applied? And what is a typical work day like?

Thanks, Tom


#3394 DHFiallo

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:04

And his 1996 7th place (Le Mans) Courage C36 Porsche
Posted Image

I love this car, but seem to be having problems viewing it. I only can see about a quarter of the car. Is it just me?

#3395 macoran

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:08

4 Ibsen,
I forgot to mention artist Akira Fujimoto in my post 3348

He always signs with Fuji

#3396 macoran

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:11

Is it just me?

Probably your Image Shack

It's in your e-mail by now

#3397 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:15

I love this car, but seem to be having problems viewing it. I only can see about a quarter of the car. Is it just me?

Looks OK for me...

#3398 Tony Matthews

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:21

Yo Tony. I'm curious - On a job like this FW19, how much time is involved from the moment you have all of your reference in hand and the last brush stroke is applied? And what is a typical work day like?

Thanks, Tom

Hi Tom, belated New Year's wishes. I've found my '96 and '97 work diaries, it'll take a little while to count the days - the FW18 seems to have been started without a specific deadline, so it was not a straight push to the finish, untill I had a phone call... I'll post the details soon. I asume you mean was like, you don't want to hear about installing a new bathroom, or digging fencepost holes!

#3399 alansart

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:21

I love this car, but seem to be having problems viewing it. I only can see about a quarter of the car. Is it just me?


It did the same for me but it was OK after hitting the refresh button a few times.




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#3400 DOHC

DOHC
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 18:25

I may be wrong, but it would not surprise me to learn that photgraphy has played a part. It seems to lack the sharpness that you get with traditional engraving.


I don't know how this is made, Tony, but the last elephant pic represents an area that is smaller than one square inch. Do you think that some kind of photo-etching technique is used? I think this also takes us closer to how stamps are done, no? Nevertheless, there is some fantastic artwork on steel in bespoke rifles and shotguns, of many different styles and techniques. It's a craft that sadly is becoming less common, if it ever were. :cool: