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#451 ASD

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 23:18

Originally posted by race addicted
Of course he did. Ferrari have topped the speed traps in almost every session on every track.

Btw, all teams have an aero-package especially for the North American races.


I meant: did he really he think Ferrari's straight line speed makes them favourites above Renault for the race? It's important of course, especially at tracks with long straights and high top speed, but it's not necessarily enough to swing things to Ferrari.
The implication that he doesn't think the ruling on rear wings will make much difference is interesting.

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#452 F1Champion

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 10:08

The Renault has been by far the most consistent car on the grid. Alonso's kidding himself if he thinks that Renault will be behind the Ferraris. The braking and traction of the Renault's out of the corners will more than make up for any straight line speed disadvantage. Plus they haven't looked too shabby in the speed traps recently.

#453 rhm

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 09:57

If anyone thought Renault were going to take it easy for the rest of the season and just pull in the 2nd places, know that Ferrari are their only real competition this season, they're wrong. There's a whole load of different bits on Alonso's car this weekend. Renault have Toyota/Honda/Williams style shoulder winglets for the first time. They've also taken the 'ears' on the nose to their full extent by making it a two-tier arrangement rather like a wing and flap. These devices are thought to effectively swap front downforce for rear downforce, which is odd because the cascade winglets on the front-wing are missing for this weekend (low downforce config) so they have even less front DF available to transfer to the rear. Renault have flip-flopped between their anhedral rear wing and a straight version of it for high DF circuits this season. It's interesting that now they're at a lower DF circuit (some cars look like they're in Monza trim) they've gone for the straight wing, although a less agressive one. The end-plates of the wing are differenent as well, looking more like other team's instead of having the wedge cut out under the flap.

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#454 HBoss

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 16:07

30hp upgrade for the Renault? When has anyone in the past decade or more gained so much with a single upgrade at once?

#455 prty

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 17:17

Originally posted by HBoss
30hp upgrade for the Renault? When has anyone in the past decade or more gained so much with a single upgrade at once?


That was from Carlos Miquel (AS journo). As I said in other thread, Chevrier said Alonso was on average 3 km/h slower than Fisichella on the straight, and in the Renault blog bpl said generally 1 more km/h means 10 more bhp. So Miquel arrived to that conclusion which of course doesn't have to be true.

#456 Melbourne Park

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 23:41

Originally posted by prty


That was from Carlos Miquel (AS journo). As I said in other thread, Chevrier said Alonso was on average 3 km/h slower than Fisichella on the straight, and in the Renault blog bpl said generally 1 more km/h means 10 more bhp. So Miquel arrived to that conclusion which of course doesn't have to be true.


Not to mention the aero setups.

#457 Timstr11

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 07:24

Originally posted by HBoss
30hp upgrade for the Renault? When has anyone in the past decade or more gained so much with a single upgrade at once?

The V8s are relatively still early in their development, so big gains can still be achieved here and there.

#458 armonico

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 10:36

Originally posted by HBoss
30hp upgrade for the Renault? When has anyone in the past decade or more gained so much with a single upgrade at once?


Just to add something to prty reply. Those 30 hp also came from the way Calos Miquel counted the HP gain for France (for Alonso) :

20 hp new C spec + 10 hp less due to second race engine cicle = 30 hp for Alonso in France to revenge his 5th position at Indy. I have only translated the first paragraph since it is the relevant for the 30 HP news.

30 CV for Alonso's France revenge

"For Alonso is time for revenge. To win in Magny-Cours in great style, to sweep Ferrari and to destroy once again the glory hopes of disobedient Fisichella. If in Indianapolis the Asturian was the one that suffered to race with a very punished powerplant, this time is the turn to his team mate. The difference in a track like Indianapolis with 22 seconds at full throttle was reckoned by the Spanish driver in four or five tenths of second. Denis Chevrier differs (head of engines at the races), who speaks of only two tenths. But the case is that spec C of engine RS26 is twenty horses more of power (two tenths in a conventional track). Together with the ten (horses less) that he had because the second race of the engine, Fernando will enjoy 30 more horses in France."

#459 Lontano

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 10:44

Originally posted by armonico


"For Alonso is time for revenge. To win in Magny-Cours in great style, to sweep Ferrari and to destroy once again the glory hopes of disobedient Fisichella. If in Indianapolis the Asturian was the one that suffered to race with a very punished powerplant, this time is the turn to his team mate. The difference in a track like Indianapolis with 22 seconds at full throttle was based by the Spanish driver in four or five tenths of second. Denis Chevrier differs (head of engines at the races), who speaks of only two tenths. But the case is that spec C of engine RS26 is twenty horses more of power (two tenths in a conventional track). Together with the ten (horses less) that he had because the second race of the engine, Fernando will enjoy 30 more horses in France."


:eek: what is that guy talking about??

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#460 armonico

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 11:02

Originally posted by Lontano


:eek: what is that guy talking about??


I don't know. The word he used was díscolo :

y aniquilar una vez más las ansias de gloria del díscolo Fisichella .



Synonyms: desobediente ,indócil ,indisciplinado ,rebelde ,reacio ,avieso ,perturbador ,revoltoso ,desmandado

Perhaps the best world would be reluntant? or rebellious? or undisciplined? If you think of a better workd to express Carlos idea, please tell me. I will happily edit the translation.

#461 F1Champion

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 11:27

Wasn't the gap between Fisi and Alonso larger than 0.3 sec? Or 0.2 sec if you count what was been said about Fisi's engine update being a partial update and not the full update Alonso will receive in France? Why is the author acting as if Alonso was only slower due to the engine upgrade? He was more than 0.3 sec slower than Fisi.

#462 Lontano

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 11:31

Originally posted by armonico

Perhaps the best world would be reluntant? or rebellious? or undisciplined? If you think of a better workd to express Carlos idea, please tell me. I will happily edit the translation.


The problem is not the translation, but what he is actually saying!

#463 Lontano

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 11:32

Originally posted by F1Champion
Wasn't the gap between Fisi and Alonso larger than 0.3 sec? Or 0.2 sec if you count what was been said about Fisi's engine update being a partial update and not the full update Alonso will receive in France? Why is the author acting as if Alonso was only slower due to the engine upgrade? He was more than 0.3 sec slower than Fisi.


AS=Spanish sports newspaper=Alonso can do no wrong

#464 Cojayar

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 14:05

Originally posted by F1Champion
Wasn't the gap between Fisi and Alonso larger than 0.3 sec? Or 0.2 sec if you count what was been said about Fisi's engine update being a partial update and not the full update Alonso will receive in France? Why is the author acting as if Alonso was only slower due to the engine upgrade? He was more than 0.3 sec slower than Fisi.

The autor is not used to FA being slower than GF and therefore finds excuses for it.

#465 Nathan

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 22:49

What are the chances Renault annouce Kimi Raikkonen for 2007 this weekend?

#466 armonico

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:52

Originally posted by Nathan
What are the chances Renault annouce Kimi Raikkonen for 2007 this weekend?


Renault blog

RF1 paddock pass, aka bpl, is the host of the Renault blog, in fact one of the RenaultPR personnel.

191. On Thursday 6 July 2006 at 09:30, by RF1 Paddock Pass

re: posts 188/189/190 I refer you all back to the original post on this blog, where we explained its purpose. It is not for gossip and rumours, and certainly not for giving credit to the numerous internet rumours that surface every week: things like Renault pulling out of Formula 1 (January to April), or making driver announcements in Magny Cours (currently doing the rounds), or sabotaging Alonso's Indy race (on this blog after last week's GP). And that also goes for stories about Michelin tyres at Indy etc...as well.



#467 giddyup409

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 19:18

is it panic time?
how does renault team react?
how does flavor brie manage crises? hire more women!;)
this crises would be a tough one for any manager to deal with.

#468 LostProphet

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 10:30

Originally posted by giddyup409
how does flavor brie manage crises? hire more women!;)


Who?! :confused:

I don't see why a professional team should 'panic' in any way. It remains to be seen whether or not the lack of mass dampers hurt them, or the experimental Michellin tyre, or a bit of both.
Hungary should prove a better measuring stick - on 'normal' tyres if they're still dreadfully slow then obviously there is a big problem.

#469 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 20:12

Were Renault the only ones who used the new michelin compound at hockenheim?

If they werent and McLaren or Honda were using them then it seems pretty obvious Renault cant be competitive without the MDS. One would have to assume the removal of MDS from the R26 after it was developed with it would create at least some unexpected tyre behaviour to contirbute to the tyre compund issue.

At least it sounds like the R26'll get it back now for hungary but once again the FIA have interfered in Ferraris favour late in a season (barge board 99, tyres 03 being the previous two). Really yanks my crank!

#470 Melbourne Park

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 00:04

Originally posted by Tenmantaylor
Were Renault the only ones who used the new michelin compound at hockenheim?

I read that Renault were using a unique tyre construction, which is very different to a compound.

Q. Is it fair to say not having the mass dampers cost you?

Pat Symonds: We've lost a bit from the mass damper as well. It's a combination of things.

Q. Was that a unique construction for you?

PS: Yes, it was.

Q. So was that part of the problem?

PS: I don't actually think it was part of the problem exactly. I wouldn't like to say more than that. I think we know where the problem is.

Q. And it is something rectifiable quite easily?

PS: Oh yes.

Q. So you expect to have it rectified by Hungary?

PS: I think so, yes. I wouldn't say completely everything by Hungary, but we've learnt so much today we can get back a long way in, in just a couple of days.

Autosport Interview with Pat Symonds, by by Damien SmithSunday, July 30th

However in another article, McLaren's Whitmarsh says that McLaren went to the new front tyre construction earlier, and that Renault had gone to it for the German GP race. So according to McLaren, the front tyre construction was not unique to Renault, but it certainly was the first time they had raced it.



#471 KeyserSoze27

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:57

The latest Pat Symonds interview is quite infomative:



Renault’s Executive Director of Engineering has explained that the championship leaders will maintain their aggressive approach after a difficult outing in Germany.

Pat, Renault experienced their toughest race of the season so far in Germany last weekend. What is the mood like in the team at the moment?
PS: Honest and self-critical. After a performance like we experienced in Hockenheim, we make a critical analysis of each decision made before the event, and how it has affected car performance. A result like this only goes to show the quality of the people we have in this organisation. They have worked calmly, redoubled their efforts and implemented solutions for Budapest.

Last weekend was the first race where you did not run the mass damper, and this coincided with the team’s worst performance of the year. Is it fair to draw a causal link between the two?
PS: This was not the only factor that contributed to our unsatisfactory result but it goes without saying that removing the mass damper degraded our performance, otherwise the component would not have been on the car throughout the season. After using the device for the first time in the final races of 2005, the design and development of this year’s car was optimised with it in place. The ride and the behaviour over kerbs of the R26 at the last race was certainly not as good as we have been accustomed to this year. But there were other factors at work as well.

What were they?
PS: We were aware before the event that tyre management at Hockenheim could be particularly difficult. It is a circuit that puts a lot of energy into the rear tyres, which can lead to blistering problems. As a result, we took compounds with the lowest chance of blistering, but in spite of this we had severe problems with rear blistering during the race – worse than any other Michelin runner. Equally, when using tyres designed to limit blistering, other compromises must be accepted: one is a reduction in grip, the other that the car balance can vary between new and used tyres. This proved to be the case, with the drivers suffering too much understeer in qualifying and oversteer in the race.

You have said that the team has worked calmly to implement solutions. What are they?
PS: Firstly, we received notification on Monday that the FIA will recommend to the Court of Appeal that teams who have used the mass damper in Hungary should not have retrospective penalties applied when the hearing takes place between before Turkey. In light of this, we will use the device again in Hungary. We have also re-analyzed the other updates added to the car in Germany. A new rear suspension geometry was introduced for this race and in light of the fact that our problems were focused on rear tyre degradation, we will probably revert to the previous specification until we can track test the evolution further. However, our substantial new aero package performed in line with our predictions and will be maintained for Hungary, where we hope to demonstrate its true effectiveness.

Have you also worked with Michelin to respond to the blistering problems?
PS: Michelin have responded quickly to the performance in Hockenheim. All of the partner teams suffered from blistering to a greater or lesser extent in Germany, and Michelin are therefore offering their partner teams the chance to change one of the tyres that had been selected for Budapest. It has been a fantastic response.

In terms of the championship, you have seen Ferrari eating into your lead in recent races…
PS: That’s true, and it hasn’t been a comfortable sight, but don’t forget we are still leading both championships. It seems that the Ferrari-Bridgestone combination has had an upper hand at the hot circuits we have visited recently, but having recognised this is the first step to reversing it. We certainly do not consider the recent swing towards our competitors to be a permanent one.

So are you confident you can rebound in Hungary?
PS: This season has been a dangerous one for making predictions, but I am optimistic of a much-improved showing in Hungary. We have not made any knee-jerk reactions to the race in Germany, and this would be the wrong time to be timid and conservative. Our approach to the problems has been honest and pragmatic, and it is now up to us to turn things around. Last year, we showed that we can come back and fight a competitor who appeared to be faster than us. Hearing people write us off this year has only strengthened our resolve. We will be doing everything in our power to turn the tables on Sunday in Budapest.



RenaultF1.com

#472 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 23:20

From itv-f1.com

On the mass damper system and renaults new rear susp:

Ex-Renault people confirmed that it was worth two-tenths of a second per lap in itself, and probably as much again in terms of what it allowed the team to do with ride heights, springs and anti roll bars.

But their speed loss wasn’t all down to the damper. The rest was due to Renault’s new rear suspension that wrecked the rear tyres.


As Pat Symonds says, “A new rear suspension geometry was introduced for this race and in light of the fact that our problems were focused on rear tyre degradation, we will probably revert to the previous specification until we can track test the evolution further.”

So while they’re going back to the old rear suspension, Renault is sticking with the new aero package, which is delivering the expected downforce increase.