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#101 capture_the_flag

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 08:49

I hope the new R26 will help Fisi to win many races this season, and a possible fight for the World Championship. :smoking: :clap:

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#102 Sir Frank

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 10:21

Originally posted by bpl
re: Sir Frank,

1) The track used is not revealed for competitive reasons. But the principle, as you suggested, is to have an 'average' F1 duty cycle in order measure engine and aero performance.


Most of the tracks nowdays are very similar, spare a few. I would expect sg like Bahrain to be an average track.

2) A new spec engine's lap-time gain depends on the spec! They all vary, so there isn't a standard value. For example, we use a new spec 'letter' when a new family of developments comes in. So a third iteration of an F spec, for example (the terms are fictitious), might be equivalent in every way to the first iteration of a G spec. But the G spec will give further development potential that the F spec didn't have. The lettering system is a convention rather than a firm indicator of specific changes or even immediate performance advantage.


Could you perhaps give an approximate figure of how much an average engine develops in terms of lap times during a season?

we think it's important to have some direct contact with fans when we can. Response to the info on our website (positive or negative, as long as it's constructive) is always appreciated too.



Thank you for your answers :up:

I have always liked how Renault gave more to the fans than other teams. The online telemetry and several interesting interviews on Renaultf1.com were very impressive, especially the ones in 2003, where Pat Symonds gave some inside knowledge about tyre energies, fuel sensitivity, tyre degredation and how changes to the wings infuence sector times.
I still have those previews from him saved on my harddrive and read them before the GPs. Excellent stuff :up: I would like to read more of that if possible.

I always wondered what happened with the wide angle engine. AFAIK it had some reliability problems for much of 2003 and it gave lots of vibrations so revs had to be lowered. Is it true that a breakthrough was achieved during late 2003 and solutions found for the problems, which made the engine reliable and also very powerful, especially in low rev range? If I remeber well the reports suggested that the engine was only abandoned because of the new engine rules for 2004. (1 engine/weekend)

#103 Wouter

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 21:46

Bpl, thanks for the info, good initiative from your team! :up:

Can you say what the feeling in the team is about the return to tyre changes and the imminent withdrawal of Michelin - is this a serious problem relative to Bridgestone teams?

#104 sainsburypeter

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 14:55

Many thanks for all your efforts bpl. Just a quick question what does the online telemetry involve and will it still be provided in 2006?

[/B][/QUOTE]I have always liked how Renault gave more to the fans than other teams. The online telemetry and several interesting interviews on Renaultf1.com were very impressive, especially the ones in 2003, where Pat Symonds gave some inside knowledge about tyre energies, fuel sensitivity, tyre degredation and how changes to the wings infuence sector times.
I still have those previews from him saved on my harddrive and read them before the GPs. Excellent stuff :up: I would like to read more of that if possible.

I always wondered what happened with the wide angle engine. AFAIK it had some reliability problems for much of 2003 and it gave lots of vibrations so revs had to be lowered. Is it true that a breakthrough was achieved during late 2003 and solutions found for the problems, which made the engine reliable and also very powerful, especially in low rev range? If I remeber well the reports suggested that the engine was only abandoned because of the new engine rules for 2004. (1 engine/weekend) [/B][/QUOTE]

#105 bpl

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 16:22

re: sainsburypeter, we broadcast live telemetry from the cars during the Grand Prix weekends. You can either see an 'engineer' view or a 'driver' view of what's going on in the car - in real time. I remember watching the first weekend we launched it, during Monaco 04, when the drivers were warming tyres during the safety car periods and you could see it happening on screen. It was pretty cool.

re: wouter, you can find plenty of quotes about this on our website, check out the interviews with Bob Bell over the past couple of months. We are confident in Michelin's ability to adapt just as well as they did from 04 to 05.

re: SirFrank on previews, they will become a bit more like that again this year, so look out for them from Bahrain onwards...! re: wide-angle, it was felt that yes, the project would be difficult to make work under the longer life rules, which is why the decision was taken to revert. Certainly it was a project that bore a lot of fruit in subsequent engines - the stats I posted show that in 03, they did 8 different specs...

re: roadie's question on aero, I have seen Geoff Willis' comments about this and I don't know. Again, I will see if, after the launch and if it doesn't crop up, we can include an answer in one of our Q&A's.

Thanks all, have a good weekend. First test has concluded very well for R26, thanks for your interest! We are back in action on Jan 25-27 in Barcelona with Fernando and Fisi.

#106 Timstr11

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 16:42

I think Willis's comment about drag was related to V8 cars running less wing = lower drag

Willis: - Despite having to run at lower drag levels to maintain top speeds, cornering speeds, though, will be very similar to before.



#107 Sir Frank

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 16:45

Thank you again bpl, Im looking forward to those previews :up:

May I suggest 1 or 2 more things. I would love to read an article
- on how the team prepares the cars for the GP weekends. What kind of simulations are used in establishing a base setup (what models, how sophisticated they are) and what can be done overnight to improve handling and balance.
A pit/car coversation between driver and engineer while adjusting setup would be very welcomed. It doesnt matter if its from an old GP or not.

- How teams decide the race strategy. Do you use computer programs? Tools of game theory? How can you guess other peoples strategies or can you asses their expected race performance from their practice stints?

I know both of these might not be revealed, but some basic info would be very much appreciated. I have long been waiting for an article on either one.

I hope you will continue coming here, its fantastic to get answers directly. :up:

#108 bpl

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 17:03

re: SirFrank, the nearest we have is a conversation from the race - practice is off limits for obvious reasons. However, everybody works to the assumption the other teams are listening, so the reality is that the real set-up work is done away from the radio - in the truck. All you really hear is minor adjustments like front wing changes. But a number of media last year watched the race from our 'garage grandstand' with the team radio, and enjoyed the experience, you might have seen some of the articles?

re: race strategy, did you see Pat Symonds' Journal article on autosport.com over the winter? That was a pretty good insight into 2005 style work with lots of different case studies.

Thanks for the ideas though, we will note them down and see what we can do!

#109 ssilviu

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 17:05

bpl, is this the last year in f1 for Renault?

#110 Platipus

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 17:25

ask to Ron, he knows everything, he read speculations from british tabloids!

#111 Sir Frank

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 17:37

Originally posted by bpl
re: SirFrank, the nearest we have is a conversation from the race - practice is off limits for obvious reasons. However, everybody works to the assumption the other teams are listening, so the reality is that the real set-up work is done away from the radio - in the truck. All you really hear is minor adjustments like front wing changes. But a number of media last year watched the race from our 'garage grandstand' with the team radio, and enjoyed the experience, you might have seen some of the articles?

re: race strategy, did you see Pat Symonds' Journal article on autosport.com over the winter? That was a pretty good insight into 2005 style work with lots of different case studies.

Thanks for the ideas though, we will note them down and see what we can do!


I didnt know that about radio conversations. Very interesting.

Yes, I read Symonds words in the journal. An excellent piece, still I hoped more can be revealed. Not in terms of race case studies (that was greatly covered) but more general infos. What teams know about others strategies and pace (like Mr. Symonds told* they knew about BARs competitive pace at Turkey before the race, thats why the short first stint strategy was employed - how did he know?) and how that influences their own decisions. And what they know others know about them. What is common knowledge and what is not. Thinking a bit further it would be also interesting to know how teams examine others' pace in winter testing. Do they look at eachother at all? As you might have read (in the winter testing thread) a lot of us forumers are spending time trying to guess the relative pace of teams.

* Jenson had looked quick enough to beat us on pure pace at stages of the weekend

Thank you again, hope to read about these topics. If only 1 materializes, Ill already be a happy camper.

#112 Jodum5

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 23:28

Originally posted by ssilviu
bpl, is this the last year in f1 for Renault?


fat chance getting a satisfying answer

#113 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 23:39

Great to have someone like bpl on this forum, welcome! :up:

#114 Pumpkin

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 10:15

Originally posted by ssilviu
bpl, is this the last year in f1 for Renault?


I was to scared to ask that one :lol:
I see a 'no comment' coming on

BTW Bpl welcome to the forum it is great to have you here :up:

#115 carbonfibre

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 10:19

bpl who do you think is looking strong for next season after the tests so far?

#116 bpl

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 17:00

re: carbonfibre, it's too early to say I think. Only three 06 cars were running, lots of mixed aero set-ups + people running V10 and V8 engines at different points, so it's hard to make a judgement at this stage. Reliability of the Toyota and Honda was generally impressive, I think it's fair to say.

re: pumpkin and others, we are not coming onto the forum to respond to gossip, or reveal 'secrets', rather to add value and hopefully bring some insight. So nothing to say on that one.

re: SirFrank, I think you will need to get a job as a race engineer to find out how most of these things work... :) This is unlikely, unfortunately, to be something that Pat or others would want to talk about in too much detail - if, indeed, at all! But again, it's a strong idea, I will see how we could work it in...

#117 carbonfibre

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 17:17

bpl thanks for the anwser. :)

A lot of people seem to think Ferrari is looking very strong do you agree or is that just to hard to say since they are using the F2004 with V8?

#118 Platipus

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 16:43

Bell added that although neither Giancarlo Fisichella or world champion Fernando Alonso was allowed to push the limits of the car in its first week, both left the test confident of its potential.

"Both drivers were very happy with the car, and complimentary about its capabilities during the initial running," he said.

"[Performance] was not our priority. The drivers were both cautious because the number of spare parts for the car is currently limited, so we couldn’t afford any ‘offs’. Even so, the initial signs seemed very positive in terms of the car’s performance."


:p :p :p :clap:

#119 Melbourne Park

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 22:51

Originally posted by bpl
... we are not coming onto the forum to respond to gossip, or reveal 'secrets', rather to add value and hopefully bring some insight.
...


You certainly are adding value. Having such "insider" comments has given me huge empathy with the Renault team and a growing respect for the Renault name.

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#120 Platipus

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:17

let's come the package work, and Renault will not be far from the top tmes

#121 chak

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 12:15

I'm surprised by how promising the package looks off the bat. Hopefully Michelin copes well.

I somehow get the feeling that Renault will be fantastic this year, although it'll probably be their effective swan song, and Michelin's too.

That's the sad part.

#122 sainsburypeter

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 14:02

Originally posted by bpl
re: sainsburypeter, we broadcast live telemetry from the cars during the Grand Prix weekends. You can either see an 'engineer' view or a 'driver' view of what's going on in the car - in real time. I remember watching the first weekend we launched it, during Monaco 04, when the drivers were warming tyres during the safety car periods and you could see it happening on screen. It was pretty cool.


bpl, do the pages on renaultf1.com showing lap times, pit times and time gap between drivers etc get updated in real time through the race or are they there purely as post-race analysis?

#123 kos

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 14:31

Originally posted by sainsburypeter


bpl, do the pages on renaultf1.com showing lap times, pit times and time gap between drivers etc get updated in real time through the race or are they there purely as post-race analysis?


It is in real time

#124 sainsburypeter

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 14:37

Originally posted by kos


It is in real time


Thanks ;)

#125 bpl

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 16:09

re: timing, they are not in real time, no. That is the sole preserve of FOM, we simply update after each session.

Thanks

#126 kos

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 08:20

Oops, sorry then...
I was sure that I followed it live during Monaco 2004 weekend

#127 Platipus

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Posted 20 January 2006 - 22:31

At the recent Ferrari press meeting in the Italian alps, an intrepid reporter for the 'Bild' newspaper asked the 36-year-old driver if he had decided to rename the German circuit 'Schumi-Ring'.

''I think 'Bild-Ring' sounds pretty good too,'' Schumacher giggled.

With that part-denial out of the way, Michael - fresh from the Jerez tests - was then asked who he thought might be a major F1 player in 2006.

He said: ''Renault are making a strong impression. They are getting on with their development very steadily and reliably, while the same cannot be said of all top teams.''


:eek: :eek: :eek:

#128 wawawa

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 02:23

Originally posted by Platipus
''Renault are making a strong impression. They are getting on with their development very steadily and reliably, while the same cannot be said of all top teams.''

I'd say that was more a barb aimed at McLaren rather than praise aimed at Renault. Having said that, Renault's reliability and performance has been astonishing.

#129 Platipus

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 23:59

why do you think mclaren was pointed in his words?

the team to beat is renault after all, not mclaren!

#130 wawawa

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 00:30

Originally posted by Platipus
why do you think mclaren was pointed in his words?

Just a guess, based on past history between Schumacher and McLaren :)

the team to beat is renault after all, not mclaren!

True. But with all due respect to Renault, I think McLaren will be the most serious Michelin contender this year.

#131 Bravo

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 03:10

Bpl, how long does it take to set the (new) car at full potential? I mean, we have heard from RenaultF1 crew that they haven't set the car at full capability because the purpose was to check systems and basic reliability. But is it foreseeable to see R26 at full potential this week?

Regards.

Edit to specify 'this week'.

#132 bpl

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 12:01

re: Bravo, thanks for the question. The statements that have been published were that the team has not worked on performance development yet with the new car, which means working on set-ups and optimising the car; this was because the number of spare parts for the first test was very limited so we could not afford any 'offs' - see Bob Bell's comments from last week.

In Barcelona this week, we will have two new cars running, but the priority for all the winter sessions will be to get the car reliable, while understanding how it responds to set-up changes and how to extract maximum performance. Logically, to make sure the level of reliability is representative, you have to also be pushing the car hard - otherwise you have not simulated the conditions that will be encountered at the race, so the reliability level you might achieve is not representative.

However, what is certain is that no team will say when they have run the car at 'full potential' ahead of the season, for competitive reasons. So you will have to wait for Saturday afternoon in Bahrain for that one!

#133 prty

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 09:38

Maybe a little offtopic but with all the preseason reliability talks I realised this has to be asked: Can a driving style be more stressful to the car than other?

#134 Sir Frank

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 11:40

Originally posted by bpl
re: SirFrank, I think you will need to get a job as a race engineer to find out how most of these things work... :)


What are the requirements? ;)

Originally posted by bpl
In Barcelona this week, we will have two new cars running, but the priority for all the winter sessions will be to get the car reliable, while understanding how it responds to set-up changes and how to extract maximum performance. Logically, to make sure the level of reliability is representative, you have to also be pushing the car hard - otherwise you have not simulated the conditions that will be encountered at the race, so the reliability level you might achieve is not representative.

However, what is certain is that no team will say when they have run the car at 'full potential' ahead of the season, for competitive reasons. So you will have to wait for Saturday afternoon in Bahrain for that one!


If you run the car at Barcelona, will you go away from the ideal setup as far as reverting to lets say a Suzuka setup? Or you just go through a number of changes and see how the car reacts to these changes at specific parts of the track?

If another team gets to know your cars 'full potential' , how is that an advantage for them? Only strategy wise at the first race?

I have seen some footage from the Jerez test. Under turn in the R26 looks exceptional, exiting the corners there was some nervousness.
Listening to the new engines, the Renault sounds to be changing gears more frequently than others coming out of the last corner at Jerez. Im guessing you were not revving it as high as possible yet compared to others who have track tested their engines a lot earlier.

#135 Platipus

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 17:49

michelin didnt purpose 2006 tyres, everyone test on 2005 evolutions!

R26 front wing and somes others things will change for barehin, the winter condition give just somes hints about overall performances and reliability, last tests before season start will be closer to real potential of the R26!


so renault didn't use the valves pneumatic system, but a new one, ;)

#136 SkorbiF1

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:19

Originally posted by prty
Maybe a little offtopic but with all the preseason reliability talks I realised this has to be asked: Can a driving style be more stressful to the car than other?

A small difference might occur, but not much.
Ofcourse driving 200 laps on the limit, and driving 200 laps nursing a car, have a bigger difference.

#137 Paco

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:19

Originally posted by prty
Maybe a little offtopic but with all the preseason reliability talks I realised this has to be asked: Can a driving style be more stressful to the car than other?


In my opinion, the quick answer is yes. However, it depends on whether you mean a driving style can be a car breaker. There, I'd be more inclinded to say no.

With the current level of electronic and safe guards built there-in, its quite difficult for a driver to stress an engine very much. However, depending on the setup prefererences and turn in angle, they can still put a whack of pressure on suspension, tires and the breaking system.

So, IMO, yes and no. :smoking:

#138 SkorbiF1

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:20

Originally posted by Paco


In my opinion, the quick answer is yes. However, it depends on whether you mean a driving style can be a car breaker. There, I'd be more inclinded to say no.

With the current level of electronic and safe guards built there-in, its quite difficult for a driver to stress an engine very much. However, depending on the setup prefererences and turn in angle, they can still put a whack of pressure on suspension, tires and the breaking system.

So, IMO, yes and no. :smoking:

I agree.

#139 prty

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:28

Originally posted by Paco


In my opinion, the quick answer is yes. However, it depends on whether you mean a driving style can be a car breaker. There, I'd be more inclinded to say no.

With the current level of electronic and safe guards built there-in, its quite difficult for a driver to stress an engine very much. However, depending on the setup prefererences and turn in angle, they can still put a whack of pressure on suspension, tires and the breaking system.

So, IMO, yes and no. :smoking:


Yeah more or less I agree with that, but I want bpl to answer so we can have Renault views on the subject.

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#140 bpl

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:39

I think I will leave this job to Platipus - he seems to know more than me!

re: Paco, that's a good question. Certainly, a style can have different effects - for example, we saw last year that Giancarlo's rear tyre wear was relatively higher, while for Fernando the higher relative wear was at the front. In terms of the engine, mapping is developed in conjunction with the driver's style and around their individual characteristics, so again the team works to adapt the "tool" to the driver's style - and the same is true in reverse, the drivers adapt to be in harmony with the car and engine.

In terms of it being more stressful, I think one answer is to say that the team has the responsibility to make a car that can cope with the driver's style. The drivers will work with the engineers to optimise how they drive, iron things out or adapt the set-up. In fact, in some senses the concept of 'driving style' is a wild goose chase - Fernando says it best when he says that the only real driving style is constant adaptation, because the car changes every lap. For example, he says that he drove differently at Minardi, compared to the very aggressive steering movements he makes with Renault.

The way in which it can be stressful is, of course, when things are taken out of their 'normal' operating parameters. So if a driver shifts up too late and continually hits the rev limiter, that can have an impact on engine reliability. Equally, look at last year in Imola when RAI was reportedly told to avoid being so aggressive over the kerbs to look after the driveshafts, didn't and it broke early in the race because it was beyond what had been specced as 'normal' for that part. But I think it is fair to say that it is rare for a driver's style to have such a major impact as to really be a 'car-breaker'. Fernando, for example, is very aggressive but the engineers always cite his control as a major quality.

re: Sir Frank, set-up work during the winter is not circuit-specific. You need to understand how the car reacts if you change the roll-bar, change ride heights etc... The engineers work to build up their knowledge base, in order that they know what to do when situations arise at the races; circuit-specific work would come later on, in tests focused specifically on individual races.

As for the performance potential, you are absolutely right. Every team is pushing flat out, so knowing the potential won't change how they work - if it did, that would simply suggest they could have been working harder anyway! However, you only need to see today's comments from Honda to see that more than ever this season, nobody can be 100% sure where the performance base-line is situated and that Bahrain will be the real test. Every team is always cagey, on the basis that any info revealed gives competitors more information than they would otherwise have had. So especially in this run-up to the first race, until we know the playing field is level, every team plays its cards very close to its chest. Which also gives all the fans plenty to debate and speculate about!

#141 DEVO

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 19:52

I have to admit this is one of the rare threads that I actually read every post. Thanks bpl. I wish more threads where like this.

question for bpl,

Regarding the new rules changes for this year (tire changing allowed during pits, new qualifying format, etc), are there any rules that Fernando or Fisi like or dislike? And why? Thanks!

#142 armonico

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 20:13

Is Renault seriously thinking to go to the Barhein test? Thanks.

#143 prty

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 21:15

Thanks for the answers :up:

#144 ssilviu

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 22:50

http://video.google....03&q=renault f1

#145 Jhope

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 22:54

Originally posted by ssilviu
http://video.google....03&q=renault f1


That's the 2004 V10. Notice at the end, it says RS24.

#146 ssilviu

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 23:02

you're right...my mistake....

"Video from test bench about the new 800 hp V8 Renault F1 Engine. "


yeah right :lol:

#147 armonico

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 23:30

Fernando Alonso
"I did 94 laps today, which is very good for a new car. The important thing for this early stage is that we had no mechanical problems, so I am quite happy with our results so far. I was still experimenting a bit today because this is the first time I have driven at Barcelona with the V8, so you need some time to get used to the different driving style. The car is easy to drive here as well, and my feeling so far is very good."



#148 rfus

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 00:36

Originally posted by bpl
I think I will leave this job to Platipus - he seems to know more than me!


:rotfl:

Platipus is Renault

#149 bpl

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 06:18

re: jhope, that's spot on. There is no dyno footage of the V8 yet!

re: Devo, talking to both drivers, they do not have a strong opinion either way. They both have said they are glad to be going back to tyre changes, and like the idea of the qualifying format going back to multiple laps. Having said that, as Fernando pointed out, qualifying comes down to three sessions with one flying lap now, rather than just one - so the basic task is not that different, even if the format changes. In general though, they will race and run flat out whatever the rules are; they don't express strong opinions either way on this topic.

re: Armonico on testing outside Europe, not to my knowledge. We have six weeks of testing planned in Spain from now until the week before Bahrain.

#150 bpl

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  • Joined: January 06

Posted 27 January 2006 - 17:52

Dear All, Nothing new to add following Friday testing after we didn't do a single lap! Next week is launch time, we look forward to hearing from you afterwards. Testing starts again on 1 February, look forward to seeing you there.