21 replies to this topic

[MPea3]

I'm off to bike week in March and was wondering about the old Daytona track, the one that used a combination of the beach and the road next to it. Thinking I might go take a look, I have a few questions.

1) Does anyone know the exact location of the track?

2) Were any sort of existing roads used for the turns or were these cut specifically for the track?

3) Was the same location used for both the bikes and the cars?

4) Did the location stay the same or did it move because of development or other necessary reasons?

Thanks in advance guys.

[MoMurray]

I'm off to Bike week too...how about that. As far as I know, the old track was located quite a ways south of the city and ran south on A1A and back up the beach. It would be interesting to find the exact location.

Mo.

[maxpapis]

You can contact these guys... Living legends of Auto Racing. The web page is kinda ho-hum but see if you can meet up and talk with some of the guys. They will tell you everything you need to know (car related) about where the track was. I am sure they will know about the bike track too.

If you need help finding anything when you are down here let me know.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by maxpapis


If you need help finding anything when you are down here let me know.

How about an oceanfront condo at a cheap price?

[maxpapis]

Originally posted by MPea3
How about an oceanfront condo at a cheap price?

That requires a miracle

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by MPea3
I'm off to bike week in March and was wondering about the old Daytona track, the one that used a combination of the beach and the road next to it. Thinking I might go take a look, I have a

This may help: http://www.racingcir...ates/index.html .

Then follow the link at bottom for modern day map.

This viewing is also on my schedule for a March trip to Florida.

Another suggestion while in the area.............visit Glenn "Fireball" Roberts grave-site just behind the modern day Speedway.

Happy Motoring!

Henry

[HDonaldCapps]

I first checked this out in the 1970s and took another look at it the last time I was there a few years ago.

Take Atlantic Avenue south out of Daytona Beach. It will take you thru Wilbur-by-the-Sea and then to Ponce Inlet where the old road/beach course is actually located.

It will become Atlantic Avenue South.

The North Turn was roughly in the area where Seahaven Drive is. The South or First Turn was at about where Ocean Way Drive is, which is where the entrance to Lighthouse Point Park is located.

They apparently used existing beach access points, but bulldozed them larger and put bleachers there.

I found that not many people realized that there used to be racing there, assuming that it was always held at the speedway....

[MPea3]

Thanks guys, I'll check it out and get photographs if there's anything to see.

Digging around a little more, I found this on the Daytona Beach Camber's page for bike week. Assuming that their information is accurate, I'm struck by 3 things...

First, that the Port Inlet course was not the first beach-road course to be used. The site says that the original course was also south of Daytona, 3.2 miles in length, and had a banked sand corner on each end. The Port Inlet course was first used in 1948.

Second, that the winner's average speed of the inaugural race in 1937 was 73.34 mph. I never cease to be amazed at what the early car and bike racers did. I ride about 10,000 miles a year and am comfortable on bikes, but there is no way in hell I'd ride one of the bikes from that era at 80 mph, even with modern protective gear. Those guys had some major league spheres.

Third, that the first race after WW2 (1947) was promoted by Bill France!

[HDonaldCapps]

That is correct, the Ponce Inlet course was the one used before the move to the Speedway. The earlier course used in the 1930s was probably closer to the Wilbur-by-the-Sea area, I think just north of there. I just never got a chance to really scope it out and establish its exact location.

Big Bill was promoting races before WW2, including some of the early beach races as well as races elsewhere around the Southeast. He was quick out of of the starting block when the War ended.

I took some photos when I visited in the 70s, but they are long gone. It would be interesting to have some for a Ghost Tracks feature.

[maxpapis]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Another suggestion while in the area.............visit Glenn "Fireball" Roberts grave-site just behind the modern day Speedway.

I don't know if I would say the grave-site is just behind the track, it's at least 4 miles to the east.

[MoMurray]

We may get our answers here (at least those of us in the US with Speedtv).

http://www.speedtv.com/programs/435/

Mo.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by maxpapis


I don't know if I would say the grave-site is just behind the track, it's at least 4 miles to the east.

Actually, according to Mapquest, it is less that 1.5 miles. The only thing between the Speedway and the Memorial Park is the Daytona Beach Airport.

Henry

[maxpapis]

No map necessary I drive by it almost every day.
Maybe 1.5 miles as the crow flies but a car has to go around the airport, ERAU and a industrial park. *shrug*

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by maxpapis
No map necessary I drive by it almost every day.
Maybe 1.5 miles as the crow flies but a car has to go around the airport, ERAU and a industrial park. *shrug*

Daytona Memorial Park (Bellevue Memorial Gardens) appears to be rather large. Can you give some general directions to the gravesite once the property is entered?

Thanks!

Henry

[MPea3]

I wish I had some good photographs of the remains of the old road-beach course, but it seems no longer possible. The south turn is Beach Street, on the edge of a fairly affluent residential area. When I attempted to stop and take a pic, the cop restricting beach access was having none of that. Another year perhaps.

The north turn area is now occupied by condos and a bar called Racing's North Turn Beach Bar and Grill. If you follow the links through their website, you can see a photograph of the north turn area, so I took a pic from the deck looking south for comparison. Condos abound, and the paved half of the course has been moved westward to allow more building room as well. Oh well... progress.

One note though, as one follows the paved road south where the road is original, it is kind of spooky how narrow it is, probably 16 feet or so (about 5 meters for you sensible people). It's the not the sort of road I'd want to go fast on, certainly not trying to pass someone.

[SEdward]

"the cop restricting beach access"

Why? Isn't it anyone's beach?

Edward

[MPea3]

I'm not sure why, and didn't stop to ask. Daytona Beach is known for being driven on, but the track is south of Daytona, and even Daytona has restrictions (time of day, tides) as to when one can drive on it.

For that matter, there are plenty of beaches now where one is not allowed to even walk on it, for fear of disturbing some sort of sea grass or turtle nesting grounds. I better stop here before it turns too political and I show myself to be the unfeeling hardass that I am.

[HDonaldCapps]

Originally posted by SEdward
"the cop restricting beach access"

Why? Isn't it anyone's beach?

One of the truly ugly issues that dominates American coastal communities is beach access and the basic problem over just who exactly "owns" the beach. The usual accepted standard is that up to the mean high tide mark the beach is owned by the public. However, those who have jammed their condos onto land that was never meant to support such structures tend to take a different view of things. They are, of course, idiots and it is difficult to work up much sympathy for them when hurricanes or storms whack their condos. All this has pretty much ruined the beach for me. Whether it is Daytona Beach or Myrtle Beach or wherever, it is not unusual to find beach access greatly restricted or even completely denied except for those public areas set aside years ago -- which are shrinking fast. Nor is all this helping reduce coastal estuary or salt marsh issues since they keep right on building....

I could go on and on. The destruction of the coastal areas is going to bite the US squarely in its dumb ass and we should have more places where the beaches are allowed to be left undisturbed, but also allow public use of areas. There are reasonable compromises that can be made, but few seem interested in hammering them out these days.

One of the great adventures in my academic life was helping to craft the historical studies that were used during the debate before the Tidelands bill that finally eeked through the South Carolina was being discussed back in the 1970s. Even then it was too late for such legislation, but at least it slowed the bastards down and made them at least work at it versus getting a free ride....

[philippe charuest]

in some country like france theres law to forbide any new construction on the sea side and the coast is a public property , cause of hurricane and for ecologic reason but mostly for democratic reason so the average joe could still have access to the sea . i thinq that its an exemple that we should follow in canada before its too late . but in the USA the sea is like anything else including healthcare and education ,its a luxury for people who could afford it

[Tmeranda]

Originally posted by maxpapis

That requires a miracle

Not in Daytona, the whole place is rather low rent.

[MPea3]

Originally posted by Tmeranda


Not in Daytona, the whole place is rather low rent.

First, not during bike week! Some real dumps were going for over $250 a night.

Second, Daytona Beach seems to be gong through it's "mid-life crisis". Many of the old hotels are worth buying, tearing down, and buildingnew hotels and condos. That is happening all up and down the beach.

If by low rent you mean that it's generally a dump, no argument here.

[Graham Clayton]

One note though, as one follows the paved road south where the road is original, it is kind of spooky how narrow it is, probably 16 feet or so (about 5 meters for you sensible people). It's the not the sort of road I'd want to go fast on, certainly not trying to pass someone.

Mpea3,

Here is a great description of the old Daytona course by NASCAR driver Frank Mundy, in which he mentions how narrow the old road was:

The race on the beach was real wild. The main thing was to stay out of a wreck on the first turn, where most of the wrecks happened, and to save the brakes for the south turn by getting close to the ocean going north and broadsliding into turn one where it got really rough and a Sherman tank coudn't go through the sand dunes.

After you came north on the beach, you'd come off turn number three, which was at the south end of the backstretch-onto Highway A1A, which is real narrow and you are bouncing. The car is stiff from the shocks being stiff. Your eyeballs are going up and down, and you couldn't see out because the spray from the ocean and all that sandblasting on the windshield. On every lap when I got to the back straightaway on A1A, I'd put my left arm out the window with a rag trying to wipe the windshield, and I'd rub up and down along the left side of the front windshield. You could only reach about four inches. My arm would be black and blue where the muscles would rub as I tried to make a spot on the windshield to look through to see, and all that did was smear it.

On A1A I had to use the telephone poles on each side of the highway as a guide. It was all you could do to keep the car on the pavement. It was a real hassle. You were going over a hundred miles an hour, bouncing up and down, and my arm would be black and blue for a month.

To go into the south turn, you had to hit the brakes. You couldn't broadside because it was so narrow. They banked the track, and if you ran out of room, you'd go over the berm and wreck the car. What you wanted to do was to use the bank to keep your speed up and the rpms up so you could head north on the beach, and once you got out there, you had to be careful, because the tide would come in, and you couldn't get too far out. You would broadside into the north turn to save your brakes for the south turn.

Peter Golenbock "NASCAR confidential: stories of the men and women who made stock car racing great", MotorBooks International, 2004, page 30.