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Personal photos from the hills


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#101 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 23:09

Originally posted by Stephen W
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This is George Starbuck in his Chrysler Special - 6.2 litres of V8 Sports Libre!


That is one lumpy car!

And with all that weight in the back, probably based on a (small block!) 360.

Was it built from a dead F5000 bits?

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#102 ian senior

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:50

Originally posted by Stephen W
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This is George Starbuck in his Chrysler Special - 6.2 litres of V8 Sports Libre!

Taken at Orchard Corner, Harewood in July 1975.


Nitpicking time, Steve - I think it was MAURICE Starbuck. I'll refrain from the obvious remark - "wake up and smell the coffee".

#103 Stephen W

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:20

Originally posted by ian senior


Nitpicking time, Steve - I think it was MAURICE Starbuck. I'll refrain from the obvious remark - "wake up and smell the coffee".


Another case of finger trouble! This is what happens when you don' wear your reading glasses!

#104 Stephen W

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:22

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Great pictures guys!

Do either of you have a picture of the Vebra-Chev from the mid to late 1970s?

Allen


No. However I seem to remember several shots in Motoring News over the years. 'Twas built up on aa McLaren F5000 chassis if memory serves. Very potent in the straight line sprints, Weston and Brighton in particular.

:wave:

#105 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:31

Originally posted by Stephen W


No. However I seem to remember several shots in Motoring News over the years. 'Twas built up on aa McLaren F5000 chassis if memory serves. Very potent in the straight line sprints, Weston and Brighton in particular.

:wave:


Only 'saw' this beast once...I say 'saw' as half of it was covered in a plastic sheet which was rippling furiously in the high winds that caused my one and only visit to Weston speed trials to be a washout as the event was cancelled before any competetive runs had ocurred. Bugger.

Didn't it have a dragster-style supercharger on top of the engine? And was the driver, Clive Bracey (?) a relative of Le Mans racer Ian (IBEC) Bracey?

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#106 Allen Brown

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:53

Originally posted by Stephen W


No. However I seem to remember several shots in Motoring News over the years. 'Twas built up on aa McLaren F5000 chassis if memory serves. Very potent in the straight line sprints, Weston and Brighton in particular.

:wave:

The chassis was built on M10B jigs is what I was told, so it would be very similar to a M10B but there would be detail differences that would be hard to disguise.

The car is almost certainly now in vintage racing as a M10B. Most likely the current owner has no idea.

Allen

#107 ian senior

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:58

Maurice Starbuck was an amazing guy. He was a dead ringer for my old physics teacher, Mr Priestley. Like Priestley when he rode his bike, Maurice always tucked his trousers into his socks when driving - he didn't bother with such niceties as proper racing kit. Before the car shown above, he had a front engined Chrysler Special, presumably using the same or similar engine as the later car. I'd love to see a picture of that one too - can anyone help (please!!!) here?

#108 2F-001

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 10:09

Didn't the Vebra win at the Brighton Speed Trials one year?

My mental image of it includes a mid-Seventies style March nose (751, 761??) - had never occurred to me it was based on a McLaren! I'd just assumed it was based loosely on a March or was a complete one-off. Guess I should have looked closer...

#109 Stephen W

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 10:58

Originally posted by 2F-001
Didn't the Vebra win at the Brighton Speed Trials one year?

My mental image of it includes a mid-Seventies style March nose (751, 761??) - had never occurred to me it was based on a McLaren! I'd just assumed it was based loosely on a March or was a complete one-off. Guess I should have looked closer...


Clive Bracey and the Vebra in all its guises ran for many seasons in the British Sprint Championship starting in 1974. He rarely ran for a full season however the highlights were....
a) 18/05/75 3rd Wroughton
b) 18/08/79 3rd Lydden
c) 04/10/86 1st Weston
d) 03/10/87 2nd Weston
e) 10/09/88 1st Brighton
f) 01/10/88 3rd Weston

Full details can be found on the BMSA website (http://www.britishsprint.org/)

:wave:

#110 Allen Brown

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 18:29

Steve

It raced as late as 1988?! That's interesting as it excludes one or two M10Bs that actually have a bit of history. But if it disappeared in 1988 I'd have to bring up the point that values of old McLarens peaked about 1988.

Hmm :

Allen

#111 Stephen W

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 09:49

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Steve

It raced as late as 1988?! That's interesting as it excludes one or two M10Bs that actually have a bit of history. But if it disappeared in 1988 I'd have to bring up the point that values of old McLarens peaked about 1988.

Hmm :

Allen


The Vebra went through varicose gestations! It was originally naturally aspirated. When the Supercharger was fitted it became Mk 2. Subsequent bodywork versions saw it elevated to Mk 3 etc.

It was still a very useful beastie on the straight line drags having power & torque to spare!

:wave:

#112 Allen Brown

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 10:01

Steve

Was it crashed at the end of its career. That's what I heard but I don't have any details.

Is Bracy still competing or still involved in any way? He'd be a good man to talk to.

Allen

#113 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 10:31

OF interest to all ,the Coogar of Mike McDowell passed on to TNF member Coogar , he had great fun and results with it until he passed it on , it is still in Ireland .

#114 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 11:45

Around the early 80's John McCartney was a regular at Prescott with either a BRM P267 V8, a P153 V12 or a UOP Shadow (Dn3 I think). It was always a delight to see and hear such exotic F1 machinery on the hills but what happened to him?
I got the impression the arrival of compulsory silencers might have put him off , as it must have done with several runners of historic (and loud) machinery. A tragedy if that's the case.

Where are the McCartney cars now I wonder?

Smon Lewis
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#115 Stephen W

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 11:45

Originally posted by EDWARD FITZGERALD
OF interest to all ,the Coogar of Mike McDowell passed on to TNF member Coogar , he had great fun and results with it until he passed it on , it is still in Ireland .


Is it not up for sale again?

#116 Stephen W

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 11:57

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Around the early 80's John McCartney was a regular at Prescott with either a BRM P267 V8, a P153 V12 or a UOP Shadow (Dn3 I think). It was always a delight to see and hear such exotic F1 machinery on the hills but what happened to him?
I got the impression the arrival of compulsory silencers might have put him off , as it must have done with several runners of historic (and loud) machinery. A tragedy if that's the case.

Where are the McCartney cars now I wonder?

Smon Lewis
www.simonlewis.com


John McCartney, who lived in Horwich nr Bolton, ran varicose cars in the British Sprint Championship, many of which were hillclimbed:

An Emeryson
A Jaguar E-Type
The Felday-BRM 4 4-w-d Sports Libre
The TechCraft-BRM P57 4-w-d
A BRM P153C
A BRM P180
A BRM P160
The Parnell-BRM Sports Libre
A 2.5 Cooper-Climax T79
A Chevron-Ford/Holbay B9

:wave:

#117 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 12:22

The Coogar could be on the market, it had a shunt last year , so could well be for sale.

#118 Stephen W

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 16:12

Paddock Photos

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Above: The Paddock at Doune in June, 1971.

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Above: Dave Harris' Pilbeam-Hart MP42 in the Barbon Manor Paddock - May 1980

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Above: The Waring & Gillow team cars in the Barbon Paddock - May 1980

:cool:

#119 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 18:23

Originally posted by Stephen W


John McCartney, who lived in Horwich nr Bolton, ran varicose cars in the British Sprint Championship,

Didn't that make them too wide for the tracks? :)

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#120 Stephen W

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 11:51

Originally posted by Roger Clark

Didn't that make them too wide for the tracks? :)


In some cases yes! :lol:

#121 Mistron

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 17:12

Seeing all these harewood shots made me think I might as well post a few of my car at Shelsey and Harewood in the '70s

The driver, Dennis Pegg, was a mate of Maurice Starbuck (I recon it looks like they may have shared a tin of paint......)

(and I've just realised that the Steve Wilkinson who sent me a similar photo and gave me the names of various owners which enabled me to trace its history is the same Steve W! - Thanks again Steve!!!!)

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#122 Stephen W

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:41

The Mistron

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Taken at the July 1976 British Hillclimb Championship event at Orchard Corner.

Welcome aboard Mistron!

#123 Stephen W

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:49

Pardon me!

This selection were all taken at Pardon corner at Prescott during the 1974 British Hillclimb Championship meeting in September.

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Peter Voigt in the brilliant Voigt-Renwick Special (NB spot Voigt's feet through the slot in the top of the bodywork!)

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Tommy Elton in his BT18 Brabham starts to turn into the corner

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David Franklin in his March-BMW 742 exits during the Top Twelve Run-off.

#124 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:10

Originally posted by Stephen W
. . . during the Top Twelve Run-off.

Top Ten, in those days, wasn't it Steve?

#125 Stephen W

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:44

Originally posted by Tim Murray

Top Ten, in those days, wasn't it Steve?


Correct although occasionally we had more runners when FTD was under threat by a none registered competitor. This was one such occasion as Phil Scragg in the 3 litre BMW Alpina engined Chevron B19 set FTD. However he declined his run as the conditions were still very slippery and no one got near his time.

The TOP TWELVE came into being in 1984. However prior to that they had two reserves who came in should any of the Top Ten have mechanical or off-course problems.

They then made the decision that all 12 should run but just the Top Ten get points (10 down to 1).

:wave:

#126 Ted Walker

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 17:21

Tim. Sorry to be a pain,BUT you get rid of the interference patterns by not reproducing some one elses copyright photos. See the thread at the start of the forum.

#127 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 17:28

OK Ted, sincere apologies. Post deleted.

#128 Toby Moody

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 19:32

It has been that some have had a chance to defend their BTD in the run offs of the late 90s early 00s. Mineef in the SPA had a chance to defend it at a Championship Loton some years ago, I remember.

Top 12 Run at lunch, Run at end of day, came into being in the 90s. Indeed, the more I think about it, the more I think about it, the more I remember it was introduced in '96 or 7.

Gracie is actually the only one to win under both systems of run off (if the split system came into being in 97 that is), and he seems to still prefer the older system as it was a crescendo for him as a driver. Trouble is; spectators start drifting off, but then they do even nowadays. Terrible shame no matter how much us commentators bark at them to wait for the best runs! They are going home to let the cat out or do the ironing before going to work tomorrow, and nothing will stop them...

The good thing I find about the modern run off system is that if we get a record at lunchtime, then the venue oozes the factor of 'can it be beaten twice in a day'. And that is exciting.... See Groves at August Shelsley 2005.

TM

#129 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 19:37

On a slightly related note. The day Jules posts on this BB, I may have to retire.

#130 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 19:46

Stupid question, what is the vertical black blade for? Thought it might be an aiming device a la Mercedes or is it just a sort of bumper?

#131 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 19:49

It's a beam splitter, for breaking the timing lights at the start and finish. All vehicles in UK speed events must have one fitted, to specified dimensions.

#132 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 19:54

Thanks, I've only noticed that recently at Road Atlanta! :up:

#133 Lee Shells

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 21:23

Originally posted by Toby Moody

Top 12 Run at lunch, Run at end of day, came into being in the 90s. Indeed, the more I think about it, the more I think about it, the more I remember it was introduced in '96 or 7.

See Groves at August Shelsley 2005.


1999 season actually Toby! Sorry! Same year Roger started as Secretary.

The August Groves effort was just that bit special wasn't it. At least I was able to shade the timing screen from the low sun for you.

Time to look out some of my photos to post here. Got that startline mpeg compilation somewhere. You remember, the one I have part of as my cellphone ringtone.

#134 Toby Moody

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 09:18

99?! Was it really that late?

The mind does play tricks on you, doesn't it...

In ther meantime, here is one of my favourite photos from my younger days at T W F S W.

Bolsover. MP43. August Shelsley 1984. You can hear the noise from the bar whilst the winning car sits there...

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#135 Stephen W

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:32

Originally posted by Antoine Pilette
Stupid question, what is the vertical black blade for? Thought it might be an aiming device a la Mercedes or is it just a sort of bumper?


The device is know as the BURT Strut. It was fitted first to Patsy Burt's cars as a means of lining the car up precisely with the Start Line Timing Beam. Prior to the adoption of the Timing Beam at the start line they used a mechanical chock under the rear wheel that was linked to the Timekeeper's Clocks. As the car left the line it released the chock and started the clock. This however meant cars would line up slightly differently so the Timing Beam was introduced.

:wave:

#136 Stephen W

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 15:55

A "new" batch!

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James Thomson cruises down hill at Barbon, May 1981 in the championship winning MP40.

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Martyn Griffiths relaxes in his Pilbeam MP53 in the Barbon paddock, May 1982

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July 1982 and Martyn Griffiths 'Bites the Dust' at Orchard Corner, Harewood in the July British Hillclimb Championship meeting.

:cool:

#137 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 16:58

Thanks, Stephen.
I've seen the chock in action on old pictures :up:

#138 Stephen W

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 18:45

Originally posted by Antoine Pilette
Thanks, Stephen.
I've seen the chock in action on old pictures :up:


I believe the VSCC still use it at Prescott! Leastways they did when I last attended.

#139 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 20:15

Yes, Stephen, they still do at all their hillclimbs.

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#140 Lee Shells

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 21:23

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Alan is so correct. Chocks will always be necessary at any venue with an uphill start.

Sorry about the very poor quality image, grabbed from one of my own mpegs, but it shows start line marshal Pat "Chocky" Mather watching the Farley Mark II off the line at a Shelsley Practise Saturday a couple of years ago. Chock in evidence.

In Steve's image of Martyn Griffiths I note a very familiar car, trailer, helmet and lady in the background!

#141 RS2000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 21:48

There seems to be some confusion between a simple chock and the "hockey stick" timing gear used before beam cutting with a strut.
Actually, how many hill climbs start uphill? Shelsley Walsh (broomstick chock), Longleat (chock on a string)...most others are flat or down hill?

#142 Lee Shells

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 22:26

Originally posted by RS2000
There seems to be some confusion between a simple chock and the "hockey stick" timing gear used before beam cutting with a strut.


Dont think so, see earlier posts re explanation of Burt strut, beams etc.

Having seen all bar one current or recent British Championship hills I think you are right about not many having a true uphill start.

In the process of digging for more personal hill photos.

#143 Stephen W

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 23:06

Originally posted by Lee Shells
[BIn Steve's image of Martyn Griffiths I note a very familiar car, trailer, helmet and lady in the background! [/B]


For those who haven't made the connection this is a clue "PUT THE BOOT IN" :wave:

#144 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 09:16

Originally posted by Lee Shells


Having seen all bar one current or recent British Championship hills I think you are right about not many having a true uphill start.


But most are on at least a slight slope (Prescott, Barbon, Loton). With the timing beam-to-Burt strut distance being very accurately measured the chock avoids any creeping back and also the need for the driver of a car with no handbrake to heel and toe off the line.
Old fashioned but very effective and unlike many devices we 'cant do without' these days the chock never suffers from power cuts or flat batteries...

Simon Lewis
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#145 James Page

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 11:18

Originally posted by Stephen W


For those who haven't made the connection this is a clue "PUT THE BOOT IN" :wave:


Unmistakably Roy Lane's setup!

#146 Stephen W

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 16:27

Posted Image

Roy Lane in the magnificent McRae GM1 at Harewood, July 1976

#147 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:03

Originally posted by Stephen W


Roy Lane in the magnificent McRae GM1 at Harewood, July 1976


:up: :up: :up:
Great looking car isn't it?
That glorious, very 1970s, mix of elegance and brutality.

Simon Lewis
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#148 Stephen W

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 13:30

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


:up: :up: :up:
Great looking car isn't it?
That glorious, very 1970s, mix of elegance and brutality.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com


Not only successful on the hills with Roy Lane but it took Dave Harris to his first British Sprint Championship.

I always thought it was the best looking Formula 5000. The Chevrons were too chunky, The Lolas too spindly but the McRae was an agressive looking piece of kit.

#149 Toby Moody

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:13

Another one found in the depths

Jim Thompson in the background, Bolsover cleaning front tyre with fag in hand....and James Thompson making a one off return to the hills at July Shelsley 1986. He would still have only been 25 then as he'd won the Championship before his 21st birthday in 1981..

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#150 Alan Cox

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 14:34

Some memories of a great meeting in June 1997 to celebrate 50 years of the RAC Hillclimb Championship

Posted Image Ray Rowan (in car) and David Grace converse
James Thompson Posted Image
Posted ImageTed Williams (L), Mike Pilbeam (Centre) and ADO (in car)
Posted Image Alister Douglas-Osborn, photographer Roger McDonald, reporter Jerry Sturman and Chris Cramer
Design wizard Mike PilbeamPosted Image
50 years of champions (almost)Posted Image