99 replies to this topic

[bill moffat]

Behind the wheel of a Hillman Imp was always a bad place to be in a cross wind. I went down the technological avenue with a positive camber kit, a front rad and a nasty spoiler but crossing the Severn Bridge on a windy day was still a sphincter-clenching experience. The final solution combined technology and agriculture with the addition of a bag of fertiliser to the boot.

I believe that the early Sierras were similarly-afflicted, hence the addition of a pair of aerodynamic "ears" to the C-pillar on later cars.

Early Allegros apparently had such dreadful structural integrity that the back window tended to pop out if you jacked the thing up....

[bill moffat]

..I reckon (and hope) that the little metal fillet that I bolted on to my Imp Sport was infact a negative camber kit.

[soubriquet]

A friend's father traded his ancient Armstrong Siddely for a new Imp. That must have quite a change.

My Scoutmaster had an Imp van, and a bunch of us did many weekend trips from Kenilworth to Llanberis on climbing trips.

Never got to drive one, unfortunately.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by BRG
Ah, the ME3000 - I knew someone who actually had one - we used to drink in the same pub in AC's hometown Thames Ditton and I think he bought it through some sort of local loyalty on his part. As I recall, he ended up in someone's front garden in the AC which he then changed for BMW 635CSi coupe.

Andy Barton's AC went quite well tho'...

[Cirrus]

My Scoutmaster had an Imp van

Funnily enough - out of my office window, not five minutes ago I saw a Hillman Imp van going by.
It was painted up in Dan Air livery.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by ian senior
Like the 1987 model Audi 80, when it first arrived on the scene it was inferior to its predecessor in almost every way.

What was wrong with it? I bought a new Audi 80E in 1987 to replace an 1985 80GTE and although the added weight muted the performance ever so slightly, I thought it was better in almost every other way. Only FWD car I've ever had that could be made to oversteer controllably. Bill Moffat's point on camber reminded me of a recent Autosport piece on the difference between Michelins & Bridgestones, referring to differing degrees of positive camber required on the front wheels. Only if you're standing on your head when measuring it.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by kayemod


What was wrong with it? I bought a new Audi 80E in 1987 to replace an 1985 80GTE and although the added weight muted the performance ever so slightly, I thought it was better in almost every other way. Only FWD car I've ever had that could be made to oversteer controllably. Bill Moffat's point on camber reminded me of a recent Autosport piece on the difference between Michelins & Bridgestones, referring to differing degrees of positive camber required on the front wheels. Only if you're standing on your head when measuring it.

I'll admit I never drove one, so I can only report on what the magazines said. It used the same engines but was heavier and therefore slower and less economical, the steering was more low geared, handling had some quirks such as a strange corkscrewing motion during cornering, ride comfort suffered, and accomodation (especially the glovebox-sized boot) was worse. Plus the pricing structure was, shall we say, optimistic. On the good side, it looked great for the time.

[Garagiste]

Talk of the ME3000 reminded me of another great "nearly was" - did anybody ever actually take delivery of a Panther Solo?

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Cirrus


Funnily enough - out of my office window, not five minutes ago I saw a Hillman Imp van going by.
It was painted up in Dan Air livery.

Blimey Alan, Dan Air, now theres a blast from the past ! Remember their Comets ?

[ian senior]

Originally posted by bill moffat


Early Allegros apparently had such dreadful structural integrity that the back window tended to pop out if you jacked the thing up....

Oh God.... I knew it was only a question of time before that was mentioned. Actually it only happened if you used a trolley jack to jack the thing up, and even then only if you used it in a certain place. Anyway, what's the problem? All the magazines used to complain that the Allegro should have had a hatchback,so there was the solution - just use a trolley jack in the wrong place, and shove your shopping in through the hole.

[man]

Honda not so long ago launched a new model in Norway/Sweden called the Fitta claiming it was 'small on the outside, big on the inside'.

Little did they know that fitta in Norwegian translates to a slang name for the female genitals.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Garagiste
did anybody ever actually take delivery of a Panther Solo?

I don't believe so. A friend of mine did some work with Panther and was trying to market the Kallista in Hong Kong and Taiwan. During this period, he signed up for a Solo and paid a deposit. As things developed, he realised that it was going to be a complete dog, and tried to get his deposit back, with no luck.
Then IIRC Panther couldn't deliver the car on time due to component supply problems and they had to refund his deposit which he got just before they went to the wall. I think that only one or two prototypes were ever built.

[bill moffat]

are we talking Solo 1's or Solo 2's ?

[Garagiste]

I was thinking of the 2, as the 1 was canned before reaching production.
Looks like a few 2s did get to their owners: http://www.panthersolo.com/index2.htm

Shame, it could have been something. I remember thinking it was beautiful at the time - either it hasn't dated so well or my tastes have matured somewhat since then!

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Cirrus


Funnily enough - out of my office window, not five minutes ago I saw a Hillman Imp van going by.
It was painted up in Dan Air livery.

In spite of all the issues, it is funny how we (or at least someone) still love these crazy things we call motor vehicles!

Henry

Henry

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by ian senior
I've heard of that before, and it just has to be a better answer than the Ford.....

There was at least one workshop in Sydney which specialised in fitting Mazda engines to Ro80s... this was about 1972. The Mazda engines would have been 12As though, apparently they went very well.

As for the Marina 6-cyl, it could hardly have been intended as a competitor for the XU-1... it was a fairly mundane 2.2 engine it had fitted, nothing near the grunt of the 3.3-litre triple-Stromberg Holden engine.

It was merely an attempt at some youth market penetration. A friend of mine knew one fairly well, it belonging to a friend of his. He reckoned it was pretty good.

I know they all got a lot better when fitted with a Koni telescopic damper conversion to the front end...

[Cirrus]

Back on the subject of Hillman Imps - yes they were flawed, but so were most British cars of that era, in some way or other. I passed my test in my mum's Imp (it taught me all I ever needed to know about clutch control) and we never had a head gasket problem. When I was 17/18, there was nothing cooler than for your parents to go away on holiday and leave you with the keys to the second car. I think I replaced four bypass hoses on (car-illiterate) friends mum's Minis during the summer holidays in 1973/74.

Imps didn't stop very well, but that gearbox made finding out really fun!

[Paul Butler]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Back on the subject of Hillman Imps - yes they were flawed, .........
Imps didn't stop very well, but that gearbox made finding out really fun!

Some of my happiest times in the 70's were spent in racing and rallying my Imp. It not only felt fast - it was fast! A pain to drive on the road as it had a full race engine but for a while it was my daily driver as well as my "little something for the weekend"

[Ray Bell]

Speaking of the cars that were there when Chrysler took over the Rootes Group...

On an American site I was told that they never released the Humber Snipe fitted with a 318 Chrysler V8... but I always thought they did.

What, please, are the facts? And if they did, how long did the poor old Humber diff last?

[bobbo]

Originally posted by Cirrus
The whole shameful affair of the Ford Pinto fuel tank is described here

http://www.motherjon...09/dowie-2.html

Basically, it was cheaper to pay the death and injury lawsuits than it was to produce a safer car.....

. . . And not to mention the shoddy design/ construction of the rest of the car . . . I had a 1974 station wagon with the 2.3 4 cyl & auto trans that needed to drop to Drive/2 to go over the Interstate 64 from Waynesboro Virginia to Charlottesville Virginia. That was with no air conditioning, a fresh tune up and oil change. It was literally a "check the gas, fill up the oil" car. And it got 24 MPG (US) if I was really lucky . . . We won't mention the rust (even with "factory undercoating") & keeping the front aligned.

But it was a present, and it did last me through my last 2 years of college. Barely. DOA at less than 70,000 miles.

Bobbo

[Sharman]

Dan Dare. Now there's a name to conjure with, I worked for Hertz and used to get a freebie to Amsterdam with the airline on a Friday night borrow a company car , drive all night to wherever the GP was, watch practice and the race, drive back to Amsterdam and get a 7am lift back to Manchester. Matchsticks propping eyelids. Oh the joys of youth!!!

[BRG]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
On an American site I was told that they never released the Humber Snipe fitted with a 318 Chrysler V8... but I always thought they did.

It never went into production AFAIK. But I recall tales of tests on the banked track at MIRA (the British motor industry test track) where it was so fast that it ran up to the top of the banking and rubbed the door handles off on the barriers. I don't know why they never persevered with it - maybe there were too many expensive fixes needed (you mention the diff, but maybe also brakes, steering, suspension) to make it worthwhile for the fairly limited numbers that they would have sold?

[ian senior]

Originally posted by BRG
It never went into production AFAIK. But I recall tales of tests on the banked track at MIRA (the British motor industry test track) where it was so fast that it ran up to the top of the banking and rubbed the door handles off on the barriers. I don't know why they never persevered with it - maybe there were too many expensive fixes needed (you mention the diff, but maybe also brakes, steering, suspension) to make it worthwhile for the fairly limited numbers that they would have sold?

I think there was also a project to install the V8 in a Humber Sceptre, which sounds even more frightening.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And I don't think a Holley would have been a standard fitment on a GM car. Could be wrong there, but Holleys seem to mostly be aftermarket units.

That car would have a Holley 5210 as original equipment.

[Ray Bell]

Okay... okay... I'm standing corrected!

But I reckon I'm right on the shocks... bet it had overly stiff rebound settings and I'll bet they were aftermarket...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
The fact that the Ford Motor Company introduced the 1964 1/2 Mustang with the horse emblem going against the norm and running left rather than right has always intrigued me. Just wondering if other cosmetic errors have occurred with initial new model introductions. The theory is that a left handed engineer designed the "horse" and as you know there was a real rush in getting the Mustang to market.

Not to spoil a bit of automotive urban folklore... but the designer's name was Phil Clark, he was right-handed, and he intentionally drew the Mustang emblem facing left from the start and it was approved that way all the way up the line. It's still that way today. Clark was also instrumental in designing the original Mustang concept vehicle, the Taunus-based mid-engined sports car.

It's hard to say this orientation is even unusual: note the orientation of the Ferrari prancing horse, always to the left, and the Chevrolet Impala, right or left. The Cavallino Rampante was of course copied from an Italian military insignia.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by McGuire
.....Clark was also instrumental in designing the original Mustang concept vehicle, the Taunus-based mid-engined sports car.....

Careful now...

You could reignite one of the greatest arguments ever seen on TNF!

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Cirrus
The whole shameful affair of the Ford Pinto fuel tank is described here

http://www.motherjon...09/dowie-2.html

Basically, it was cheaper to pay the death and injury lawsuits than it was to produce a safer car.....

An unsung hero of that deal was an ex-Ford engineer named Harley Copp (folks may recognize the name from the Ford GT and Cosworth DFV programs) who broke ranks with the Detroit establishment to supply the plaintiffs with valuable evidence and testimony that won their case. It was a courageous act at the time, or even now for that matter.

[FLB]

Originally posted by McGuire
It's hard to say this orientation is even unusual: note the orientation of the Ferrari prancing horse, always to the left, and the Chevrolet Impala, right or left. The Cavallino Rampante was of course copied from an Italian military insignia.

...Which of course Francesco Baracca adopted after taking down a few German planes which happened to be from Stüttgart. The horse in question is part of its emblem, which nowadays is also shared by a very famous German car manufacturer, based in Stüttgart.

I've always found it hilarious that Ferrari's and Porsche's insignias shared the same horse!

[scags]

Speaking of Vegas, my friend cured the lack of horsepower by replacing the 4 with a 400 c.i. V-8. It went VERY fast, but had a bad habit of cracking windshields from the extra torque.

[Ralf Pickel]

Originally posted by FLB

...which happened to be from Stüttgart ........... based in Stüttgart.

Sorry to be maybe a bit overly critic here - but we Germans do not use the "Umlaut" ( Ä Ö Ü ) quite as often as is quoted in many English texts ...
The name of the city is of course Stuttgart

But be careful - there is quite often a popular mixup between my hometown Nürnberg ( Nurenberg ) and the Nürburgring, which is sometimes wrongly called the Nürnbergring. The problem arises, if someone wants to go to the Nürburgring and ends in Nürnberg, which about 450 kms off to the south....
But, to finally add to confusion, we have of course a famous racetrack in Nürnberg - the Norisring !!!

[Frank de Jong]

Originally posted by ian senior
The NSU Ro80. Its ability to lunch engines was phenomenal - didn't NSU ever bother to do any testing involving the kind of motoring that its potential owners would put it through?

Well, they did - they made headlines in the press when a prototype RO80 collided head on on a public road with another car. I think this was 1963. IIRC, the NSU was descirbed in the press as a "big British car".

By the way, my first ever drive in a car was in an Imp.

[John B]

Just read a letter in this week's Autoweek about the Pontiac Solstice, and where the license plate mounted on the front (required in certain states) is supposed to go. Even the Pontiac/GM spokesman declared the setup looked ugly.

[FLB]

Originally posted by Ralf Pickel


Sorry to be maybe a bit overly critic here - but we Germans do not use the "Umlaut" ( Ä Ö Ü ) quite as often as is quoted in many English texts ...
The name of the city is of course Stuttgart

Don't say you're sorry! Quite the contrary in fact! I thought it looked strange when I wrote it, but I thought 'Hmm... It's Hans Stück, so it must be the same...'

Sincerely,
FLB


PS: I speak French, I feel the same way when I read Les Hunaudieres for instance (it's Les Hunaudières);)...

[WGD706]

Originally posted by scags
Speaking of Vegas, my friend cured the lack of horsepower by replacing the 4 with a 400 c.i. V-8. It went VERY fast, but had a bad habit of cracking windshields from the extra torque.

Sounds a little like Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins and his '72 Vega with a 331 cubic-inch small-block.
'Recognizing that the vast number of fans drove Chevrolets, NHRA reconfigured the rules to allow cars with small-block wedge engines to run at a lighter weight break. An untested short-wheelbase Vega that Jenkins built for the 1972 season was held to a subpar 9.90 to qualify a disappointing 17th for the 32-car field at the season-opening Winternationals. Last-minute suspension changes enabled Jenkins to improve to low 9.6s on race day, and he defeated five Chrysler Hemi entries for his most memorable victory.
Jenkins won six of NHRA's eight national events that year, and with his $35,000 win at the Professional Racers Association in Oklahoma, an increase in manufacturer support, and an expanded match race schedule, Jenkins grossed $250,000 to match NBA star Wilt Chamberlain's salary as the highest paid pro athlete in the country, resulting in coverage in Time magazine, the first time a drag racer had been given mainstream recognition.'
http://www.draglist....ze/grumpy74.jpg

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Careful now...

You could reignite one of the greatest arguments ever seen on TNF!

Lead the way Ray. If it has to do with Historic Mustangs I want to know the story!

Still looking for my paperwork that does indicate the horse was drawn incorrectly and the casting mold (s) were made and no time was left to have new molds made for the big introduction. Remember reading that the horse was supposed to be going in race direction!

Now, where is that great argument?

Henry

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Lead the way Ray. If it has to do with Historic Mustangs I want to know the story!

.....Now, where is that great argument?

Dare I don it?

http://forums.autosp...s=&postid=19085

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Dare I don it?

http://forums.autosp...s=&postid=19085

Ray, are we saying this is not the correct lineage?

Ok, I just bought the book and here is how the chart shows the progression:

1) 1962 Mustang I (Experimental Sports)-->
2) 1964 Ford Mark I GT-40 (F.I.A. GT Prototype)--->
3) 1965 Ford Mark I-A GT-40 (F.I.A. GT Prototype)--->
4) 1966 Ford GT-40 (F.I.A. Production Sports)-->
5) Mirage (J.W. Engineering F.I.A. Sports Prototype)

3) 1965 Ford Mark I-A GT-40-->
A) 1965 Ford Mark II (F.I.A. Sports Prototype)-->
B) 1966 Ford Mark II-A (F.I.A. Sports Prototype)->
C) 1967 Ford Mark II-B (F.I.A. Sports Prototype)

3A) 1965 Ford Mark II led to two cars--->
(i) 1965 Ford X-I (Experimental Modified Sports which was open cockpit)
(ii) 1966 Ford "J" Car (Experimental Sports Prototype) which led to--->1967 Ford Mark IV (F.I.A. Sports Prototype)

4) 1966 Ford GT-40 led to--->
A) 1967 Ford Mark III

Joe, where are you my friend?

Henry

[Ralf Pickel]

Originally posted by FLB


but I thought 'Hmm... It's Hans Stück, so it must be the same...'

Sincerely,
FLB

....his name is, of course, Hans STUCK, Hans Stück would translate into Hans Piece .

Oh my god, I am on my way to becoming an typical German teacher - like person, sorry for that...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Ray, are we saying this is not the correct lineage?

Ok, I just bought the book and here is how the chart shows the progression:

1) 1962 Mustang I (Experimental Sports)-->
2) 1964 Ford Mark I GT-40 (F.I.A. GT Prototype)--->

That is the company's version of the lineage, and strictly as a spritual or conceptual progression as seen from the company's POV accurate as these things go. But actually the original Ford GT40 was based on an outside design, the Lola GT. However, in the Ford GT program there was very soon not much left of the Lola either.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang



Still looking for my paperwork that does indicate the horse was drawn incorrectly and the casting mold (s) were made and no time was left to have new molds made for the big introduction. Remember reading that the horse was supposed to be going in race direction!

Actually, the horse is going in race direction...depends on what side of the track you are standing.


http://www.muscularm...e/philclark.php

[D-Type]

I thought the Mustang badge issue was that as we read left to right so the horse should be running left to right.

[Terry Walker]

Might have been something to do with the artist who drew the original image. i used to do a bit of art when I was much younger, and found that I could more easily and accurately draw portraits if they faced to my left. I also tended to draw cars facing left. I'm right-handed (except in golf, cricket, baseball and other two-handed bat games, where for some obscure reason I am left-handed.)

[BRG]

Originally posted by D-Type
I thought the Mustang badge issue was that as we read left to right so the horse should be running left to right.

Not if the mustang has Arab ancestry - then it would go from right to left.

I cannot seriously imagine that there is a 'right' way for a galloping horse image to face.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by BRG
Not if the mustang has Arab ancestry - then it would go from right to left.

I cannot seriously imagine that there is a 'right' way for a galloping horse image to face.

Exactly. All due respect, but I think this argument about the correct way for a horse to run is faintly bonkers.

[Vitesse2]

Probably the only car ever named after a hospital for the criminally insane: the Studebaker President Broadmoor station wagon!



(And yes, I know they were probably thinking of the hotel in Colorado Springs ...)

[Henri Greuter]

I have heard this rumor, can anyone confirm it perhaps?

When Mercedes introduced its first generation V12 engiens in the S Class in 1991.
I was told that the car was so heavily loaded with extras and so on that the empty weight of the car became so high that there was a serious problem with carrying passengers and luggage and that the choise was either 5 passengers without luggage or less passengers in case luggage had to be transport, but both being impossible...

Henri

[kayemod]

When Mercedes introduced its first generation V12 engiens in the S Class in 1991.
I was told that the car was so heavily loaded with extras and so on that the empty weight of the car became so high that there was a serious problem with carrying passengers and luggage and that the choise was either 5 passengers without luggage or less passengers in case luggage had to be transport, but both being impossible...

Henri

Surely anyone who could afford an S Klasse would FedEx their luggage on ahead, don't we all do that anyway ?

[h4887]

Probably the only car ever named after a hospital for the criminally insane: the Studebaker President Broadmoor station wagon!

This deserves to be in the 'World's Ugliest Cars' thread. It looks as if it was made from parts of two or even three cars stuck together - reminds me of that old Johnny Cash song...

[Lee Nicolle]

Speaking of Vegas, my friend cured the lack of horsepower by replacing the 4 with a 400 c.i. V-8. It went VERY fast, but had a bad habit of cracking windshields from the extra torque.

Only 7 years late but from what I have read a lot of Vegas become Monzas with the small block conversion. Many moons ago I serviced a [real] Monza for an American serviceman and had no real problem doing plugs etc.No harder than a 68-71 Chev powered Holden.
It went well with the 262? an auto. 350 would have been nice though! Though not really my sort of car.