Victoria Climax
#1
Posted 03 March 2006 - 22:38
Roger Lund.
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#2
Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:37
I have seen pictures, but I can't recall where - Autosport probably
#3
Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:38
#4
Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:46
#5
Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:49
#6
Posted 05 March 2006 - 01:17
#7
Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:52
On this thread:
http://forums.autosp...ght=brian gubby
David McKinney suggested we might be looking at the Victoria Climax (No.52)
#8
Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:18
The thing I remember most about it from other pictures was its chopped-off tail, à la Cooper-Climax
#9
Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:25
Originally posted by David McKinney
Did he?
The thing I remember most about it from other pictures was its chopped-off tail, à la Cooper-Climax
He certainly did.....but said he only thought it might be. What does he think now?
#10
Posted 05 March 2006 - 13:31
#11
Posted 05 March 2006 - 14:40
I'm sure it is a VictoriaOriginally posted by David Beard
He certainly did.....but said he only thought it might be. What does he think now?
#12
Posted 05 March 2006 - 14:53
#13
Posted 05 March 2006 - 15:18
#14
Posted 05 March 2006 - 20:12
#15
Posted 05 March 2006 - 20:43
Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
I had a daft idea of writing a book about Rochdale Motor Panels.
I don't think it's a daft idea! I still rather fancy an Olympic, having a strange attraction towards odd plastic cars...
Go for it, Paul
#16
Posted 05 March 2006 - 22:07
I'm quite sureOriginally posted by David Beard
He certainly did.....but said he only thought it might be. What does he think now?
(Thanks for the link, Charles )
#17
Posted 05 March 2006 - 22:32
BTW, The Rochdale link mentioned that the Victoria had an FWA and a Norton gearbox. Anyone know any more of that?
RL
#18
Posted 06 March 2006 - 22:43
#19
Posted 06 March 2006 - 22:51
Ted also mentioned that the damned things were also SO hot and uncomfortable to use. All very well for a ten mile blat over the Peaks or Dales, but wearying over longer distances. (The man's got no soul, he should suffer for his art.....)
Talking of Chapel e l Frith , did you ever come across Albert Leonard? He helped me with some photos for my project a couple of years ago. Pls e mail me if you know him.
RL
#21
Posted 07 March 2006 - 16:21
#22
Posted 07 March 2006 - 16:45
Originally posted by h4887
I don't think it's a daft idea! I still rather fancy an Olympic, :
No bad idea. IIRC when Jenks tested an Olympic , Riley 1.5 engined from memory, in the 60s, he reckonend it was a little road burner, with the description "poor man's Porsche" and he should have known about such things. Must look in the boxes of old MS mags if I get a chance.
RL
#23
Posted 08 March 2006 - 23:23
As for Harry Ratcliffe, he had plans at one time to run a team of three lightweight Olympic Phase Is, one red, one white and one blue. The 'Lightweight' versions were the same bodyshell built with far fewer layers of GRP. The first car was built with a tuned Riley 1.5 engine and he took the car on a test run over Blackstone Ridge above Littleborough. He lost control of the car at speed, found himself amongst the boulders surrounded by lumps of GRP, still attached to his racing seat. He quickly went off the idea of racing them. Although they were contemporaries of the Lotus Elite, the Olympic never really found favour with the racing people.
There's far more I could write about these fascinating cars, but I need to have a look at my files.
#24
Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:50
Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
There's far more I could write about these fascinating cars, but I need to have a look at my files.
Bring it on, Paul - I always liked the Olympic.
#25
Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:58
Another 'Lightweight' Olympic was built for active club racer Derek Alderson, who approached a friend, Derek Bennett (later of Chevron Cars) to build the car for him. They bought the crashed remains of Cedric Brierley's Lola Mk.1 after the Keith Greene incident and decided to build a lightweight Olympic with a Lola spaceframe, Coventry Climax 1098cc engine and running gear. The Olympic bodyshell was bonded to the Elva chassis. Taken to Oulton Park for testing, the beautiful car was found to be very light at the front. Paul Owens, Bennett's mechanic who'd done a lot of work on the car, was allowed to take the car out and returned to complain of severe understeer and lightness at the front. Sent out again with instructions to take things easy, he soon left the track at Clay Hill and the car cut in two by a steel hauser. Owens, who was later to become a director at Reynards, was unhurt but Bennett and Alderson were very upset. At first designer Richard Parker felt the crash was as a result of driver error but further tests by him confirmed that the Olympic could get light at the front owing to it's aerodynamics, which was exagerated with the lightweight Bennett car.
As for Cedric Brierley's Victoria-Climax, my brief notes mention that PDK 364 had an 1100cc Coventry Climax engine, Norton motorcycle gearbox, self-built chassic, JP (Joe Potts) 500 alloy wheels and a RMP F-type GRP bodyshell - total weight at 7cwt 35 lbs.
Other raceing cars with Rochdale bodyshells were Les Leston's Connaught ALSR 'VPF 272'; Gillie Tyrer's highly modified Frazer Nash-BMW Type 328 "Supermoter" 'NKA 9' with RMP alloy bodyshell; and Alex McMillan's Lancia 'KRO 548'.
#26
Posted 09 March 2006 - 13:00
#27
Posted 09 March 2006 - 13:32
#28
Posted 09 March 2006 - 20:43
The GT was RMPs most sucessful product with thousands of them being sold. It was claimed an average handyman could turn his Ford into a sportscar over the weekend.
The Olympic was a contemporary of the Elite, both having GRP monocoque bodyshells, however the Olympic was a stronger, simpler design. However it was only as good as it's contructor and some were pretty ropey. It also took a lot of money for the designer to develop. However the Mini/Anglia were such good value for money, the spares from Austin/Morris/Ford/Joe Lucas were unreliable, and kitcars lost their purchase tax benefit.
#29
Posted 09 March 2006 - 20:46
#30
Posted 09 March 2006 - 23:36
Originally posted by Roger Clark
In 1963 a Victoria was being driven by the splendid Giuseppe Vanaria.
I have found it entered and driven in March 1964 by a P V Dillon at Brands.
RL
#31
Posted 04 September 2006 - 15:34
Taken in 1956 when it had a Rochdale F-type body, which is the same as was apparently fitted to the Victoria Climax.
This could well have been the same body as used on the then owner's (Alex McMillan) Cooper Bristol (LBU 349) the previous year.
To me this body looks rather different to that in the photo of PDK364, but that could have been lowered (& widened)?
#32
Posted 04 September 2006 - 19:36
MBU Built by Denys Wolstenholme for Alex McMillan in 1956. The Elva Mk1 was bought in kit form minus engine, gearbox and body, for £350. Powered by a Coventry-Climax FWA 1098cc SOHC engine, painted white and black but with two thin tapered lines on the bonnet, but unlike the earlier Bristol-Barb, this car was fitted with headlamps, spoked wheels and a full-width screen. Raced at the BARC 21st Members Meeting at Goodwood, 17 March 1956. Also raced by Ian Campbell-Blair in 1957.
What condition is the car now in and do you know what happened to her since 1957? Wonderful news.
#33
Posted 04 September 2006 - 19:42
PDK 364 Cedric Brierley's Victoria Climax
MDM 64 Horace Porteous' Cooper Special. Porteous came from Abergele, North Wales. The car was based on a Cooper 1000cc single-seater chassis, and the engine was a modified Morris Ten Series M with a Lastall alloy head.
LBU 349 Alex McMillan's Bristol-Barb, built for him by Denys Wolstenholme, was originally an ex-Alan Brown Mkii Cooper-Bristol. Sold in September 1955 to Neil Campbell-Blair, and was successful until it was destroyed at the Lancs & Cheshire CC meeting at Oulton Park in October 1956.
#34
Posted 04 September 2006 - 21:23
JF
#35
Posted 04 September 2006 - 22:11
#36
Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:08
#37
Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:56
Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
Well what a surprise! (My last post took so long for me to type, I was timed out. Let's try again)
MBU Built by Denys Wolstenholme for Alex McMillan in 1956. The Elva Mk1 was bought in kit form minus engine, gearbox and body, for £350. Powered by a Coventry-Climax FWA 1098cc SOHC engine, painted white and black but with two thin tapered lines on the bonnet, but unlike the earlier Bristol-Barb, this car was fitted with headlamps, spoked wheels and a full-width screen. Raced at the BARC 21st Members Meeting at Goodwood, 17 March 1956. Also raced by Ian Campbell-Blair in 1957.
What condition is the car now in and do you know what happened to her since 1957? Wonderful news.
Only collected it a couple of days ago and not had a chance to investigate it thoroughly.
The chassis was restored some time ago - needs a little bit of cleaning but is in great condition, minimal corrosion, no sign of accident damage.
It came without engine & gearbox but I had a Climax engine & T-type gearbox lying around, which were clearly destined for this car!
Unfortunately the body has gone, it has a loosely fitted Falcon body which will do for now.
Ultimately I would like to fit an F-type body, but they don't seem to be very common (Rochdale website says they know 3) - assuming no one has a body lying around, any idea if someone would be happy for me to make a mould from theirs?
Were these bodies quite flimsy? The low survival rate might suggest so?
I am also missing 1 front wheel (I need at least the bolt on central hub) that and the body are the only tricky parts!
A previous owner (from 1983) promised the list of prior owners but he is away for a week so I don't have the full list yet.
#38
Posted 16 February 2007 - 16:07
Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
I'll try to add a bit more about those F-type cars (before this damned thing times me out again).
PDK 364 Cedric Brierley's Victoria Climax
MDM 64 Horace Porteous' Cooper Special. Porteous came from Abergele, North Wales. The car was based on a Cooper 1000cc single-seater chassis, and the engine was a modified Morris Ten Series M with a Lastall alloy head.
LBU 349 Alex McMillan's Bristol-Barb, built for him by Denys Wolstenholme, was originally an ex-Alan Brown Mkii Cooper-Bristol. Sold in September 1955 to Neil Campbell-Blair, and was successful until it was destroyed at the Lancs & Cheshire CC meeting at Oulton Park in October 1956.
I know the whereabouts of LBU 349 and like me the owner is looking for a Rochdale F-type body.
The Rochdale club have found a Rochdale F-type body that we can copy - but we have a very short time frame in which to do so, since the owner needs it very soon.
However the cost of preparing the old body and taking moulds is excessive for 2 bodies, if we could find a 3rd person who is prepared to share the costs it would be viable to make an F-type body mould.
Do we know if the Victoria Climax PDK 364 or Cooper Special MDM 64 have survived?
If they, have is there any chance that either owner is in need of a new F-type bodyshell?
Or does anyone else need an F-type bodyshell?
Peter
#39
Posted 16 February 2007 - 16:38
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#40
Posted 16 February 2007 - 16:52
Originally posted by David McKinney
MDM64 was in an H&H Auctions sale in 2001
It had become a Cooper MG with aluminium body by then - I hadn't made the connection between these two cars.
Thanks
Peter
#41
Posted 27 June 2007 - 15:39
Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
MBU Built by Denys Wolstenholme for Alex McMillan in 1956. The Elva Mk1 was bought in kit form minus engine, gearbox and body, for £350. Powered by a Coventry-Climax FWA 1098cc SOHC engine, painted white and black but with two thin tapered lines on the bonnet, but unlike the earlier Bristol-Barb, this car was fitted with headlamps, spoked wheels and a full-width screen. Raced at the BARC 21st Members Meeting at Goodwood, 17 March 1956. Also raced by Ian Campbell-Blair in 1957.
There is a photo of the Bristol Barb in DCN's Cooper cars and it has headlights.
Presumably it started without headlights and had them fitted later - or they had to be fitted for the particular race (I think it was at Goodwood).
If it ended up with headlights I wonder if they had a new body or transferred the Cooper body to the Elva. I think someone told me the Bristol Barb had a Falcon body fitted later on in its life.
#42
Posted 20 March 2014 - 16:50
Even further off the track I once drove a TVR (this was in the mid 50's) MG 1250 engined which was fitted with a Rochdale C body like the aforementioned Connaught. Any body else remember that? I also in my foolish youth had a Rochdale GT on the ubiquitous Ford 10.
Hi Sharman,
Would you please like to tell me more about this TVR with the Rochdale Type C body?
Was it road registered or was it built as a racecar? Which TVR chassis was it on?
What colour was it? Who owned it? And any more information please as nothing is
known about the car other than the order in the RMP factory ledger and this photograph.
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
#43
Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:26
The car was road registered but I have no idea of the Registration Mark or the chassis, at the time I drove it, it was in the showroom at Station Garage in Wilmslow, the proprietor of which was one, Ken Lee. He happened to be absent when the workshop foreman, Arthur Huck aided and abetted me to take the car round the bypass, up the Alderley road, over the Edge and back to the garage via Mottram St Andrew. As I recall it the car was the ubiquitous dark green, which regardless of shade, was known as BRG. Who owned the car I have no idea, I just remember it because after a diet of 803 Minors, Wolseley 14s, Mk V Jaguars and Austin Sheerlines (who's funeral is it ?) a real live sports car was a revelation
Typo edit
Edited by Sharman, 21 March 2014 - 08:27.
#44
Posted 19 July 2014 - 10:57
I now know more about the car in the above photo in Peter Filby,s book.
We know at this time TVR did not produce their own bodywork. The TVR chassis was the 2nd series chassis based on Austin A40 running gear, with double wishbone/coil spring front suspension and a live rear axle with leaf springs.
I have a good quality photograph, which has blown up well. First I notice at the rear of the car learning against the wall is a vee shaped windscreen, very similar to the screen fitted to the RSG sports car and TVR fitted 3 RSG bodyshells to the 2nd series TVR chassis and called them the TVR Sports Saloon.
Most 1950s specials would have steel road wheels or bolt on wire wheels as per the running gear manufacture, in this case Austin. If you had money you might have alloy wheels, or as on this car we have an expensive set of oversize knock on wire wheels. Through the front wire wheel I can see a large finned brake drum, certainly not A40. In the cockpit area in the blown up photograph I can see it has a tubular chassis but it also has coilover rear suspension. So not a TVR chassis, maybe a Buckler?
I then contacted John Walkington who has owned a Type-C since new. John told me that when he collected his Type-C bodyshell from Hudson Street in 1955, Harry Smith and Frank Butterworth took him in to a back workshop and showed him the car in this photograph as an example of what his car could look like.
Frank told him it was a Team Car. The car was painted light blue and had a Riley One and a Half Litre engine fitted. John also said the car would have overheated badly as the front grill which is from a three wheeled Bond Minicar was too restrictive for the small radiator air intake duct. So can we identify this car in the photo in Peter Filby,s book?
The car in the photograph is DEN 275 built for John Horridge complete with leather strap and most of the bars in the Bond Minicar grill cut out to help with engine cooling.
The car still races today and it still has its original DEN 275 buff logbook. But not the original type of engine, or the original type of chassis or the original type of body, but the rest is original? At least they were changed in the 1950,s and with used parts, not made of new parts last week like a lot of historic race cars.
For 1955, John Horridge purchased a Lister chassis fitted with a Rochdale fibreglass body and a new 1.5 litre Riley engine. Enlisting the help of fellow Lancastrian and former Le Mans finisher Geoffrey Beetson, Horridge got chassis number 'BHL 9' road registered as 'DEN 275' on 9th May 1955.
But try as he might, he seemed unable to recapture his form of the previous season and due somewhat to the advent of newer cars such as the 'preposterously fast' Lotus and the introduction of 1500cc engines such as the Coventry-Climax unit being produced was never in the money.
Horridge had the Lister re-engineered for 1956 with a Bristol engine and while their first few outings were unspectacular, car and driver soon picked up momentum.
The Lister-Bristol took to the grid at Snetterton for the Vanwall Trophy meeting on the 27th July 1957.
While dicing with the Loti of Brian Naylor, Gawaine Baillie and Mike Parkes, Horridge was punted off the track by Lance Reventlow's Maserati.
The Lister overturned with its driver still aboard and in consequence John landed up in hospital with fractures to his neck vertebrae, nose and collar bones. The car was a complete (if that is the word) 'write off', the fibreglass body moulded by Rochdale's from a Connaught pattern - just disintegrating.
It was replaced with the ex-Allan Moore Lister-Bristol chassis, which was bought from Brian Lister with a flat-iron body.
John Horridge 1926 - 1987
Born in Bury, Lancashire on February 1st 1926 (the same year as Brian Lister), John Walter Stuart Schofield Horridge began his competitive career in some style with a Grand Prix Bugatti. A bon voyeur who was arguably more adept at popping champagne corks than tightening wheel nuts, he is remembered with great affection to this day. A former director of the calico printers, Horridge & Cornwall, his Elton Lodge home was supposedly a Mecca for gently decaying Vintage cars during the 1950s / 1960s. Once erroneously credited with achieving the fastest lap aboard 'DEN 275'at a Continental race meeting, Horridge displayed considerable ingenuity when it came to concealing the prize (100 bottles of champagne) from UK customs officials. Though, he did treat a number of fellow competitors to impromptu champagne breakfasts at the next event. Never one to take himself too seriously, the Lancastrian often raced under the Ecurie Bullfrog banner.
Doug Nye on John Horridge:
"Horridge's cars - I have been told - were notoriously scruffily presented and poorly prepared and one works team principal recalled how - at Montlhery, I think - Horridge came storming into the pits, slammed on his brakes and juddered to a stop while both headlights popped out of their mountings to dangle from their wires, having never been screwed-in securely".
So what about the photograph in Peter Filby,s book, well we now know it has no connection with TVR and was taken in Hudson Street, Rochdale and reproduced as a postcard used by Rochdale Motor Panels as literature, with the background workshop painted out in white. But it goes to show the problems you can have when researching items from years ago for an article or a book, that 4 different people can give you 4 different stories about the same event in time. So as an Archivist you have to take an educated guess at the truth until shown different.
We still have the facts that the RMP sales ledger shows that a Rochdale Type-C and a Rochdale Type-F bodyshells were sold to TVR in 1955 and with the post above from Sharman we know the Rochdale Type-C bodied/ TVR was in Cheshire in 1956 but does anyone know where is it now? and does anyone know any details about the Rochdale Type-F bodied /TVR?
Regards Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
#45
Posted 19 July 2014 - 21:45
http://www.victorias...o.uk/about.html
This any use? I was there a few years ago and for sale was a Fiat 850 coupe on wire wheels ( PHEW! ) with a certain J.Bolster's name in the log book.
Cheers
#46
Posted 23 June 2016 - 20:14
Has anyone found out any more information about the Victoria Climax, was there only one car PDK 364. Also I'm looking for more information on P V Dillow, is he Paul Dillow who owned and possibly raced a lightweight TVR Grantura Mk2 in say 1961 or 1962. I understand he was at Durham University at the time so may have raced at tracks such as Rufforth Catterick or Ouston.I have found it entered and driven in March 1964 by a P V Dillow at Brands.
RL
Edit - I've just found an old post on Ten Tenth's by a chap User name Reid Railton who owns the Omega Jaguar - his friend Paul (Peanuts) Dillow owned the Victoria Climax and raced it in 1965 before selling it to Jersey. Sadly Paul has passed away but I'll try to find out more.
Rob
Edited by RobMk2a, 23 June 2016 - 21:22.
#48
Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:17
Has anyone found out any more information about the Victoria Climax, was there only one car PDK 364. Also I'm looking for more information on P V Dillow, is he Paul Dillow who owned and possibly raced a lightweight TVR Grantura Mk2 in say 1961 or 1962. I understand he was at Durham University at the time so may have raced at tracks such as Rufforth Catterick or Ouston.
Edit - I've just found an old post on Ten Tenth's by a chap User name Reid Railton who owns the Omega Jaguar - his friend Paul (Peanuts) Dillow owned the Victoria Climax and raced it in 1965 before selling it to Jersey. Sadly Paul has passed away but I'll try to find out more.
Rob
Pretty sure there was only one Victoria Climax.
In 2009 I was in contact with Andy Hill who was related to Cedric Brierley (nephew I think) and was trying to find the Victoria Climax, or failing that build a replica - at the time I had a Rochdale F-type body that we were making moulds from.
The contact came through a thread on 10 tenths about the car...
#49
Posted 01 July 2016 - 07:16
I've spoken to Chris Wilson who raced the Victoria Climax when it was owned by Paul Dillow in around 1964. I have contact details.
Rob