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Fathers, and sons, and families, and...


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#1 bira

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 13:08

Here's a "theme" I have always found great interest in (in fact, I was hoping one day someone will write an in-depth article about it for Atlas F1 :) ):

It has to do with the atmosphere and surroundings that brought into racing many of the great drivers. And in many cases that I remember reading about - it was largely due to their father.

No, I am not talking about the obvious examples of the Hills or the Villeneuves or the Lewis-Evanses or the Fittpaldies, etc. I am talking about the likes of Hawthorne and Collins - where in both cases it seems the fathers were in many ways living up their own ambitions via their sons. Both Hawthorne and Collins grew up with a father who was deep into the automotive industry of the UK, fathers who had successful and big car garages, fathers who themselves gave racing a try, and quickly gave up on that when they discovered their sons' talents.

I remember feeling very distinctly, when I first read Mon Ami Mate, that those two would maybe, or most likely, would never have been able to go into racing in the first place, had it not been for the very extended support (financially wise, morally wise and mechanically wise) of their fathers.

I was wondering if there are others like them (from the old age; Michael and Ralf Schumacher would fall into this category too, perhaps, but they are contemporary drivers and I'm more interested in the old days). And I was wondering if there are others the very opposite of them (ie, that went into racing despite of their fathers. Again, of the contemporary crop Senna springs to mind, but what about the old crop?)

Thanks,

Bira

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#2 Dennis David

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 13:22

Posted Image

Born in 1890 to wealthy parents, he was a natural who as an 18-year old schoolboy bluffed his way into the 1908 Speed Trials at Daytona first as a mechanic then as a driver. Emanuele Cedrino - manager of Fiat's New York operations too the young man under his wing where he was jokingly known as Cedrino's millionaire mechanic. His mother horrified that her son might actually drive a racing car threatened legal action against the organizers if they allowed her son to drive but drive he did. In a Fiat he promptly beat the 1904 record of 92.30 mph set by William "Willie K" Vanderbilt. When Bruce-Brown's mother heard the news she momentarily got caught up in a wave of enthusiasm but the dread was always there that her son would die at the wheel of a racing car.

In 1908 he won the Shingle Hillclimb driving a 120hp Benz. In 1909 he beat Ralph DePalma's Fiat in the Dewar Trophy and DePalma would later remark that Bruce-Brown was "one of the greatest drivers who ever-gripped a steering wheel". By 1910 this 20-year old won international fame through his victory in the American Grand Prize at Savannah in a factory 120hp Benz by 1.42 seconds over Victor Hemery. Hemery was one of the best drivers in the world but even he was taken in by the charms of the young lad. He became the sensation of American motor sports, the rich kid taking on the best that the Europeans had to offer.

In 1911 Bruce-Brown drove for FIAT in the inaugural Indianapolis 500 and finished 3rd. He added another American Grand Prize later that year. He went to Europe in 1912 for the legendary A.C.F. Grand Prix at Dieppe. The French press called him the errant schoolboy in a man's world. Driving a 14.1 liter Fiat with DePalma and Wagner. The Grand Prix was the most prestigious race in the world. Held over 2 days the race totaled 956 miles. At the start Bruce-Brown leapt into the lead in front of a start-studded field. Setting the fastest lap he won the first day's race by over 2 minutes. On the second day Bruce-Brown struck a dog and ruptured his fuel tank. After lengthy repairs he was able to continue but only after adding more fuel which unfortunately was against the rules. He finished a disappointed though not classified third. A product of New York society he was an amateur competing on equal terms with the best drivers in the world. On October 1, 1912 the fairy tale ended when David Bruce-Brown still only 22 died while practicing for his third American Grand Prize at Milwaukee. A tire on his Fiat had burst sending the car cartwheeling into a ditch. It all seemed so pointless as he was warned that his tires appeared worn and when out on the circuit he proceeded to race with his teammate,Teddy Tetzlaff in a display of youthful exuberance. What he might have accomplished during his lifetime can only be guessed. The racing world, especially the Americans were stunned. The legendary Louis Wagner declared him to be the greatest road racer he had ever seen.




------------------
Regards,

Dennis David
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Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
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#3 bira

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 13:33

good one, Dennis. "she momentarily got caught up in a wave of enthusiasm" - that made me giggles, although I have to admit that I sympathise with her. I must admit that if I was a mother in those days and my son was interested in racing, I would not have slept one night peacefully...

#4 Dennis David

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 13:39

Bruce-Brown was a real golden boy. Handsome, friendly and a natural.

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Dennis David
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#5 Uncle Davy

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 15:26

Dennis...don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like sometimes some of us are preparing our class presentations or book reports...and before we can get up and do "Green Eggs and Ham", you've raised the bar with a thoughtful dissertation on A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu...
Don't stop...but damn, you and Don are hard acts to follow! Incentive to work harder, I guess. :D


#6 Dennis David

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 15:37

Actually these are taken from yeah old website. The work was done long ago. What this allows me to do is to share it with others rather than always publishing the URL and telling people to go look for it.

Many times a sentence or two is all that is required to get your point accross. I just had this written up for my American GP section.;-)

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Dennis David
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#7 Dennis David

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Posted 14 November 1999 - 15:38

With Don it's different. He just gives his staff their marching orders in the morning and the rest of his day is free! ;-)

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Dennis David
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Life is racing, the rest is waiting

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#8 Don Capps

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Posted 15 November 1999 - 08:46

DD,

I wish! Right now I am THE staff.

Give me a few more weeks and then I get a staff back again.

Davy,
Keep in mind that DD is in the Mark Donohue Zone -- he has an "unfair advantage..."

:)



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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#9 Dennis David

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Posted 15 November 1999 - 11:37

That reminds me. I was in a book store in Los Altos the other day and they had his book for $420! That's a lot to pay for a book on Donohue. Now a book on Michael Schumacher for that price I could understand. ;-)

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Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
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#10 cjs f1

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Posted 20 November 1999 - 03:01

I can't think of any contemporary driver today who didn't have a father or some sort of relative involved in racing, that gave that driver support. I think that is one of the problems in professional racing today, it seems that the deciding factor whether or not you will make it in pro racing is if you are in the right family or not.
There are two outcomes:
a.) You are born to a family who are deeply involved in racing. -or-
b.) Your family doesn't want you 500 yards near a race car.
There is rarely any middle ground.....

Howver there are a few examples from the past of individuals who raced regardless of their families' wishes:

-Mario (and Aldo) Andretti
-Jo Siffert
-Niki Lauda (though he came from an affluent family.)

Anybody know of anyone else?

#11 f li

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Posted 20 November 1999 - 13:12

Hi,

You can add J. Stewart to your list of daddy didn't buy a drive. Entered his first race under the name of A. N. Other if I remember the story correctly.

#12 Uncle Davy

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Posted 20 November 1999 - 19:00

I have a question...

Does anyone know if there is a good Dan Gurney biography in print? If there is not, someone is missing a golden opportunity.

All the short biographical pieces I find re Dan invariably state, cryptically, that his father was an opera singer, and let it go at that. I'm sure that someone out there (can't imagine who ;) ) might have more details.

#13 cjs f1

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Posted 30 November 1999 - 07:54

Whoops, there is a contemporary driver that did not recieve much financial support for racing from his father; Anthony Lazzaro (1999 Pro Toyota Atlantic champion).

#14 Don Capps

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Posted 30 November 1999 - 11:12

Yes, it is true, Dan Gurney's father was an opera singer. And a very good one obviously since that was how he made his living! Dan was born and spent his early years on Long Island before the family moved to California.

Surprising, there is serious dearth of bios on drivers like Gurney, Surtees, Masten Gregory, Harry Schell, Nino Farina, and others. Looking over the notes that I have on books, very slim pickings.



------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#15 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 17:30

Some of you might enjoy this update


Derek Hill (son of 1961 F1 champ Phil) has signed for International Formula 3000 with the French DAMS team

Alex Gurney (yeah, that one) will run with Fortec in the British Formula 3 championship

Ive met both of these guys through my own racing and have spent some off-track time with them and both of these guys are 'racers' in that they are very enjoyable characters.

#16 David M. Kane

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 17:35

Hopefully, Speedvision will show some F3000 and F3 races this year so we can follow their progress.

#17 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 17:53

That would be awesome. Im sending them a letter asking them to televise the World Formula Ford Championship from Brands Hatch because it looks like of the 4 factory teams 3 will have American drivers.

#18 Don Capps

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 22:22

It would be great to see that. One thing that SV does try to do is show other formulae besides F1. I hope that they will not wait until the end of the season this year to show the Motorola Cup events.

I think that there is niche audience for those types of events that Ross is suggesting. I would enjoy seeing more of these types events.

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 22:33

As an aside, these kids coming out means that access to their dads is increased, to the common good...

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#20 Eagle104

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Posted 03 February 2001 - 22:37

Any chance those two particular teams have web-sites?

#21 dbw

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Posted 04 February 2001 - 06:40

surely we must remember the famous sons that tragically never followed in their fathers footsteps.. jean bugatti and dino ferrari..

#22 Niky

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 00:33

Happy Fathers Day to all the fathers around!!! Because of the celebration (at least in the United States....:) ) I was wondering about racing families...

In my list, at the top:
Andrettis (Mario, Michael, Jeff, John),
Ascaris (Antonio and Alberto)
Pettys (Lee, Richard, Kyle, Adam)
Fittipaldis (Wilson, Emerson, Christian)
Hills (Graham and Damon)
More Hills... (Phill and Derek)
Scheckters... (Jody, Ian, Toby and Tomas)
Unsers... (Jeery, Bobby and Al Sr; Louis and Jerry -Jerry's sons-; Al Jr and Roby -Bobby's son)
Villeneuves (Gilles, Jaque and Jacque -uncle and son-)
Stucks ... (Hans Joachim Stuck?????)

Brothers and sisters:
Winckelhock (Manfred, Joachim and Thomas)
Warwick (paul and Dereck)

Any other name? I think there are maybe 200 more! hahahaha.... any ideas?
:stoned:

#23 lhampton

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 00:49

Ickes (sp?) Jackie and Varina; Varina just drove at Le Mans.
Jackie Ickes won Le Mans 6 times. I hope his daughter has an equally distinguished career!

Happy Father's Day!

#24 Niky

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 01:44

Good one! Thank you! I found more brothers:

Teo and Corrado Fabi
Lucien and mauro Bianchi
Eddie and Ross Cheever
Ricardo and Pedro Rodriguez




#25 Boniver

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 05:54

Parnell Tim and Reg
Piletti Thedore, Andre, Teddy
Brabham Jack and Garry, David,Geoffie

Whitehead Peter and Graham
Stewart Jackn, Jimmy and Paul
Rodriguez Richard and Pedro
Fabi Teo and Corrado
Brambilla Ernest and Vittorio


#26 Barry Lake

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 06:19

Don't forget Mario's twin brother Aldo Andretti.

In Australia:

Barry 'Bo' Seton and son Glenn Seton.

Lex Davison and wife Diana Davison, sons Richard Davison and Jon Davison, grandsons Alex Davison and Will Davison. To complicate matters, Diana is now married to Tony Gaze, who becomes step-father and step-grandfather to Lex and Diana's offspring.

Ross Ambrose and son Marcos Ambrose.

Bob Power and son Will Power.

and many more...

#27 dbw

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 07:04

ettore and son
enzo and son
two tragic tales....:cry:

#28 FEV

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 09:17



A few others...

Dale, Don & Bill Whittington (brothers)
Stirling & Pat Moss (brother-sister)
Juan-Manuel Fangio & Juan-Manuel Fangio II (uncle & nephew)
Jim & Dick Rathmann (brothers)
Bill Vukovich, Billy Vukovich, Bill Vukovich III
Wally Dallenbach & Jr
Joe & John Nemechek (brothers, the later died in a racing
accident)

PS: Jacky Ickx's girl is Vanina not Vanira:)

#29 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 10:00

Niky:
There's at least one recent thread on this subject:
http://www.atlasf1.c...hlight=Brothers

#30 Frank de Jong

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 10:07

Michael Bleekemolen and sons Jeroen and Sebastiaan; Toine and son Mike Hezemans; Jan and brother Jaap Lammers (although Jaap raced for a very short while); Arie Luyendyk and son Arie Jr.
To name a few.
Pasqal Ickx was a racing driver as well (Wasn't he Jacky's father?)

#31 Boniver

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 10:22

Stirling Moss
and his father Alfred Moss (500 miles Indianapolis in 1924)

#32 Stefan Ornerdal

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 13:54

Here is some more:

Derek and Justin Bell
Jean-Pierre and Anthony Beltoise
The Coronel brothers
The van Lennep brothers, Gijs and David?

Wasn't there an Ascari of the third generation, racing FJs and F3s? Toni?

And here is some drivers competing in Le Mans in the 90's, I think they are brothers. Anyone know for sure?
The Mello-Breyners, Portugal
The Monteiros, Portugal
Masami and Masahiko Kageyama, Japan

In the first Le Mans 1923, a Berliet was 19th and the drivers were Prost and Redon. Anyone who knows if there is a family connection with Alain and Laurent? Or is these names very common in France?

Cheers
Stefan

#33 Locai

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 14:05

Don't forget the Earnhardts.

Dale
Dale, Jr & Kerry

#34 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 14:17

Carlo, Alfieri, Bindo, Ettore and Ernesto Maserati were five of the six Maserati brothers and all raced at one time or another, but not all in Maseratis (and apparently Mario, the sixth brother, had no interest in the sport at all).

Arturo and Salvador Elizalde raced cars with their own name in the twenties. The de Vizcaya brothers (mentioned in the other thread above) also both raced Elizaldes.

And I seem to recall a couple of American comedians called the Smothers Brothers (Tom and Dick) racing sports cars in the late 60s or early 70s.

(2 minutes later)
Just found the Smothers Brothers website: strangely there's no mention of motor racing at all - I'm not going mad am I?
http://www.smothersbrothers.com

#35 Don Capps

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 14:39

Dick Smothers was the racer. We seemed to bump into each other about every race we were at together. I did several interviews with him and found him to be quite serious about his racing -- but realistic. He sponsored the Lou Sell car which won the SCCA GP Championship in 1968.

#36 FEV

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 14:55

Stefan,

To the Beltoise family we can add Julien (Anthony's brother).
The Coronel brothers (Tim and Tom) are one of the rare example
of twins in racing. The other I can remember right now are the
actual F3000 barzilian racers Sperafico. Funnily, I can remember
when I was kid about american twin brothers in tennis: the
Gullicksons (spelling unsure). Their surnames were... Tim and Tom.

David and Gijs van Lennep were brothers indeed, and I always
wondered why David didn't have the career Gijs enjoyed. They
were fast together in 1966 on Racing Team Holland's Porsche
906. Did David have an accident ?

The franco-portuguese Monteiro family as become a dynasty in
french racing in the 90s. I think they are three. Manuel and
Michel are brothers (in their 40s) and Tiago is the son of one of
them. Tiago did well in french F3 but seems to have abandoned
single-seaters.

I've always wondered about the Prost and Redon fact you
mentionned. Redon is not so common in France, so maybe it was
of the same family. About Prost i'm not so sure. Alain Prost is
from Armenian decent (original name was Prostikian or something
like that) and I'm not sure that it is the case for all the people
called Prost in France. And Prost is quite a common name in
France, but who knows. I'll try and mail Prost Grand Prix !

The Elizalde brothers remind me of the Lee Guinness brothers of
the same era : Kenelm and Algernon.

#37 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 15:06

Tom Smothers never raced. Dick Smothers was a more than decent driver. He raced in F5000 himself and in addition to sponsoring Lou Sell (see Don Capps above) he also co-drove with Sell and Fred Baker to 6th place in the 1969 Watkins Glen 6-Hours (this was a round in the World Manufacturer's Championship) in a Porsche 906E.

#38 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 15:12

Thanks Don and Mike - I'm only going half mad then!!:)

#39 Frank de Jong

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 18:41

Originally posted by FEV


David and Gijs van Lennep were brothers indeed, and I always
wondered why David didn't have the career Gijs enjoyed. They
were fast together in 1966 on Racing Team Holland's Porsche
906. Did David have an accident ?


Stefan, FEV, things are getting worse: there was even a third van Lennep, Gerard. I think they were involved in rallying as well.
I can't remember any accident concerning David, perhaps Gijs was the most determined driver of the trio. Being from a wealthy family, there were probably so many other ways to enjoy oneself than racing, perhaps racing became less important to the other two van Lenneps?

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#40 condor

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Posted 18 June 2001 - 23:50

Leo and Ian Geoghegan

Peter and Adam Macrow

The Bargwanna family, Alf, Harry, John, Jason etc

Spencer and Matthew Martin

John and Gavin Youl

#41 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 00:02

let's get some more besides Pedro and Ricardo (no Richard please)9:
Michel Jourdain ran CART and his son MJ II runs CART in the Bettenhausen team now, plus the brother of Michel Senior, Bernardo also ran in CART, was rookie of the year at indy in 1989 or so. In Mexico also Piero Rodarte who currently runs the FF2000 championship in the US is the grandson of a notable racer of the 60s, Luciano Rodarte. The teammate of Piero is Memo Rojas II, son of Guillermo (Memo) Rojas who was a teammate of Rebaque in the IMSA and Le Man with a Porsche, and they often squared against the Jourdains. memo and Piero run for the Roquin team which is owned by ROberto QUINtanilla, who raced agaisnt all those guys in his own Porsche in the seventies, and then went to the ARS (now Indy Lights), and his son Rolando currently runs in Indy Lights.
The great Moisé Solana was the son of José Antonio (Old Man) Solana, a mexican champion who raced in the Panamericanas, and the father of JA was one of the firste ver racers in Mexico, winning a rac in 1911 in the Chapultepec park in Mexico City. Moise had a brother, great driver too, Hernando Solana beter known as Nanán, and this one has a son who is also a driver, José, or Pepe Solana.
Of course rebaque was trh son of the famous architect of the same name, Héctor Alonso Rebaque who ran ta Sebring 1967 sponsored by Pedro rodríguez and was also a rally champion in Mexico, and a devoted Alfista. Another of the teammates of rebaque in the Porsche was Freddy Van Beuren, whose dad was a racerin the US and ehose son ran in Formula Vauxhall lotus in the nineties in Europe but is now retired.
Antther one is Carlos Contreras, the mexican star of the NASCAR truck series, whose brother Enrique is also a mexican champ and was an Indy lights runne in the nineties, plus their sister is married to Michel Jourdain Senior (second marriage or she'd be the mother of Michell II), and one of the uncles , Roberto lascuraín is also a race.Another brother od Michel senior is Patricio and he ran too in the 70s and now his son Patricio II is running in FVee and touring cars.
And there is another half brother of Pedro and Ricardo who ran briefly in F3 and FF in Mexico in the 70s/80s and is a good friend of Alex, the surviving Rodríguez brother who also ran in Mexico in the early 70s.
And about the Speraficos, Rodrigo and Ricardo are in the FIA F3000 but their cousin Alex and their little brother Rafael are in the Barber Pro series in the USA. Also Nelson Piquet has a son. Nelson II whose debut in the South American F3 is due soon and also a cousn Cristiano Piquet who is running in the Barber in USA.
And you know about the Fittipaldis Emerson and wilson, the latter being the dad of Christian, plus Cristiano da Matta is the son of another multichampion of Brasil, Toninho da Matta.
And the Villeneuves, and George Eaton who ran for BRM with Pedro a long time ago has a son running the FF2000 in the USA.
And AJ foyt has a son Larry who is coming up in the NACAR series. And Dale earnhardt's first son Kerry also ran last year in the Winston Cup. And there you have the Pettys from Lee to Adam, plus the Allisons, and the Yarboroughs, the Bodines, and the Waltrips. Bobby Hamilton is racing his son currently in the Winston Cup. And we also have the Argetsinger bros. Pete and Mike who appears in this forum frequently. And Robbie Gordon and his dad.
And Jo Siffert had a son who tried to run F3 but didn't make it.
And another mexican i can think of is Tomás López Rocha who won the Camel Lights series in IMSA and has a brother Aurelio who still runs in the Grand Am Cup, and whose son Aurelio II is now in the mexican F3 as teammate to Homero Richards, who has a brother Horacio who also runs in the series and both are sons of a mexican off road champion. Another of their rivasl is Jorge Goeters, who ran Indy Lights in 1998, pole in Madison oval, and Jorge has other brothers who run/ran in the largest series here, Patric, Mike, Alex and Eduardo (Lalo), plus they wer all enduro champs in motorbikes.
yes I can think of more but I am in a rush now.

;)

#42 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 03:31

Carlos - thank you for mentioning my brother Pete and me among the family racers. I must add that my brother J.C. and my brother Rob also raced ( we are a family of 6 boys and 3 girls). Only Peter and I are still active drivers. And of course we drew our inspiration from our father, Cameron Argetsinger, who raced from 1948 to 1960. BTW, my race this weekend at the June Sprints at Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin (Road America) will mark my 250th race start.

Frank de Jong earlier mentioned Arie Luyendyk and his son. Don't forget that Arie's dad, Joop, was a well known driver too. He won the European FV Championship one year. Also in his list of Dutch family drivers I believe Frank left out the Vermeulen brothers - Huub, Jim, and Luik. All three excellent drivers.

#43 FLB

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 03:53

I'll add Canadians Ron and Rob Fellows to the list, as well as the Lapcevich brothers, Jeff, Joe and John.

#44 Joe Fan

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 06:16

The first father and son to ever win a NASCAR Winston Cup Title: Ned and Dale Jarrett. Dale also has a son Jason who is doing well in the ARCA stock car series, won the inaugral race at the new Kansas Speedway.

#45 Frank de Jong

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 08:07

Originally posted by Mike Argetsinger

Frank de Jong earlier mentioned Arie Luyendyk and his son. Don't forget that Arie's dad, Jaap, was a well known driver too. He won the European FV Championship one year. Also in his list of Dutch family drivers I believe Frank left out the Vermeulen brothers - Huub, Jim, and Luik. All three excellent drivers.


Mike, I didn´t want to repeat the entries I made in the other thread about racing brothers (the Vermeulen trio, of which 2 were twins), so I thougt I give some new ones. Of course Jaap Luyendijk was also a great driver, how could I forget? :blush:

To make up for this: the Huisman family, Patrick and Duncan, touring car drivers, and father Ben Huisman, gentleman-sportscar driver of the 50´s-60´s. And course director of Zandvoort, by the way.

#46 Mohican

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 12:57

Funny that no one appears to have mentioned Michael and Ralf Schumacher...are they too recent a phenomenon ?

#47 Frank de Jong

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 13:10

Originally posted by Stefan Ornerdal
The Coronel brothers

Going back to the original subject, their father Tom Coronel was a racing driver as well...

#48 tompka

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 18:05

I'm not hundred percent sure, but during Eurosport's Le Mans coverage I heard that Marc Gene the test Driver of Williams and Jordi Gene the driver of one of the LMP675 cars are brothers.

And since I'm from Hungary I know some Hingarian examples.
ifj. Toth Janos, the Hungarian rally champion, and his father Toth Janos who IIRC raced mostly hillclimb events.
And a larger fanily the Kesjars. Kesjar Csaba was the first Hungarian to drive an F1 car, a Zakspeed, and was very talented, but he had a fatal accident at the Norisring on 1988 July 14th. His father id. Kesjar Janos was also a racing driver as well as his brother Kesjar Janos, who if I'm not very much mistaken raced hillclimbs. His nephew ifj. Kesjar Janos is also racing. At first he raced touring cars, but after a serious accident he switched to rallying.

Of course here in Hungary we write the first name _after_ the surname, if the names doesn't make any sense it's probably because of this.:)

#49 Niky

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 20:03

They are right: Jordi and Marc Gene are brothers...

What about the Fangios: Juan Manuel and his nephew, Juan Manuel Jr. A frien of mine, in Argentina, sent me an article about Fangios and they mentioned other Fangio: Ruben, Juan Manuel Fangio's (Sr) brother.... Any info about that? I didnt know he had a brother....

Thank you all for the comments!!!!

:)

#50 indysteve

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Posted 19 June 2001 - 21:16

Louis and Gaston Chevrolet, brothers