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Charting all the Lotus 24 chassis...


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#1 brickyard

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 20:41

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out how many were made and who were the owners of the Lotus 24's, and until now that's what I have: (which of course have some errors/missing information)


chassis 940:
1962 - Rob Walker
1963 - ? (Hap Sharp on USA GP 63)

chassis 941:
1962 - Rob Walker
1963 - Rob Walker, next
1963 - Parnell

chassis 942:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - Walker

chassis 943:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - Parnell
1964 - B. Gubby
1965 - B. Gubby

chassis 944:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - BRP

chassis 945:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - BRP
1964 - BRP

chassis 946:
1962 - Seidel
1963 - Seidel, next
1963 - P. Driver

chassis 947:
1962 - Jack Brabham, next
1962 - Van de Vyver

chassis 948:
1962 - Team Lotus

chassis 949:
1962 - Team Lotus
1963 - B. Collomb
1964 - B. Collomb
1965 - B. Collomb (destroyed after Syracuse 65)

chassis 950:
1962 - Team Lotus, then
1962 - Filipinetti
1963 - Siffert
1964 - Siffert

chassis 951:
1963 - Filipinetti, next
1963 - André Wicky
1964 - André Wicky
1965 - André Wicky

chassis 952:
1963 - BRP (used only once by M. Gregory at the French GP 63)

chassis P1:
1963 - Parnell
1964 - Parnell

Also I'd like to know their racing colours.

Any adictions and comments? Let's see where this thread will take us. :cool:


Thanks
Luis

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#2 Pedro 917

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 21:17

Chassis 941 was the one in which Ricardo Rodriguez was killed. I didn't know it was rebuilt.

#3 RAP

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 08:52

I think 942 was the car acquired by Chris Summers in 1964 into which he put a Chev V8 for club racing and sprints/hillclimbs.
Richard

#4 brickyard

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 16:39

Chassis 941 was the one in which Ricardo Rodriguez was killed. I didn't know it was rebuilt.



According to Doug Nye in his book "Theme Lotus", 941 was used in 1963 by Trintignant at Pau, Bonnier at Syracuse and Revson at the Gold Cup. But I chequed my papers late night and discovered a small annotation on a small piece of paper saying that the chassis used in those three races was 953. (It doesn't mention the source unfortunately)
This could mean that the car could have been rebuilt and given number 953. (the last one built?)

Other notes:

948 was (I presume) destroyed at Spa 1962 when Taylor had his big shunt with Mairesse. I think it wasn't rebuilt after that...

940 was used by Schroeder for the Mecom stable late '62 at Mexico and USA GP's... The car was painted some sort of metalic grey I supose...

943 was used by Penske for the Zerex Team late '62 at Mexico and USA GP's... I think the car was painted gold or something (I saw a photo some time ago, but it was a small bad scan)

#5 Barry Boor

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:22

I wonder if there is a good colour photo somewhere of 943 in its Zerex team livery?

#6 MCS

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:54

Originally posted by RAP
I think 942 was the car acquired by Chris Summers in 1964 into which he put a Chev V8 for club racing and sprints/hillclimbs.
Richard


Correct. But which was the "P1" chassis used by Jan van Straaten in some of the 1970 European F5000 rounds...?

#7 brickyard

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 16:17

I wonder if there is a good colour photo somewhere of 943 in its Zerex team livery?



So do I Barry. The only one I've found was this one but it cannot provide much help...

#8 David Beard

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 18:48

Originally posted by brickyard
Hi,

I'm trying to figure out how many were made and who were the owners of the Lotus 24's, and until now that's what I have: (which of course have some errors/missing information)


chassis 940:
1962 - Rob Walker
1963 - ? (Hap Sharp on USA GP 63)

chassis 941:
1962 - Rob Walker
1963 - Rob Walker, next
1963 - Parnell

chassis 942:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - Walker

chassis 943:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - Parnell
1964 - B. Gubby
1965 - B. Gubby

chassis 944:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - BRP

chassis 945:
1962 - UDT Laystall
1963 - BRP
1964 - BRP

chassis 946:
1962 - Seidel
1963 - Seidel, next
1963 - P. Driver

chassis 947:
1962 - Jack Brabham, next
1962 - Van de Vyver

chassis 948:
1962 - Team Lotus

chassis 949:
1962 - Team Lotus
1963 - B. Collomb
1964 - B. Collomb
1965 - B. Collomb (destroyed after Syracuse 65)

chassis 950:
1962 - Team Lotus, then
1962 - Filipinetti
1963 - Siffert
1964 - Siffert

chassis 951:
1963 - Filipinetti, next
1963 - André Wicky
1964 - André Wicky
1965 - André Wicky

chassis 952:
1963 - BRP (used only once by M. Gregory at the French GP 63)

chassis P1:
1963 - Parnell
1964 - Parnell


Anyone care to put some current owners against these chassis?

(Entrants at of 24s at last years Goodwood Glover Trophy were Paul Smith, Paul Drayson, Roy Waltzer, Frank Sytner, Michael Wanty, for starters)

#9 PeterTRoss

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 20:04

David,

At this year's Goodwood Revival there were eight cars listed in the programme for the Glover Trophy as Lotus 24s. Whether or not they were all genuine I cannot say, and of course their chassis numbers were not shown. They all practised, and five of them raced, three taking 2nd, 3rd and 4th places. One of those which did not start would have been driven by Martin Stretton who had an accident in an earlier race and broke his arm. Note engine capacities are as shown in the programme and mostly incorrect.

No. Entrant Driver Year Engine
18 Roger Weiland Richard Weiland 1962 Climax 1498cc
19 Dieter Streve-Mulhens Dieter Streve-Mulhens 1962 Climax 1494cc
20 Frank Sytner Frank Sytner 1962 Climax 1495cc
21 Mark Wanty Mark Wanty 1962 Climax 1495cc
23 Jeremy Agace Rob Hall 1962 BRM 1980cc
24 Paul Smith Alan Baillie 1962 BRM 1998cc
25 Paul Drayson Martin Stretton 1962 BRM 1495cc
26 Desmond Small Michael Vergers 1962 BRM 1495cc

I will have a look at the Silverstone Classic 2007 programme to see if there was any difference.

Yours,

Peter Ross

#10 David McKinney

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:45

Originally posted by David Beard
Anyone care to put some current owners against these chassis?

940 written off by Trintignant t Monaco 1962. Rebuilt on new frame and writen off in Hocking’s Natala GP accident at the end of 1962
941 nothing known after late-1963 North American internationals
942 Michel Wanty
943 nothing known after sold to Warner Brothers 1966
944 Roy Walzer
945 nothing known since 1988 Monterey auction
946 possibly still in South Africa
947 Dieter Streve-Mülhens
948 written off in Taylor’s 1962 Spa accident
949 Frank Sytner (although a car with the same number is in the Schlumpf musuem)
950 Ric Weiland
951 Nothing known since André Wicky 1965
P1 Jeremy Agace
P2 Jose Albuquerque 2003
P3 Alan Baillie
I don’t know which cars were entered at Goodwood by Lord Drayson or Desmond Small

#11 PeterTRoss

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:53

Lotus 24s at the 2007 Silverstone Classic

There was only one Lotus 24 entered and it did not turn up

Entrant/Driver Paul Drayson
Year 1962
Engine not stated
Colour Green
Engine size 1500cc

#12 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 12:02

The car in the Schlumpf collection is a BRM engine chassis, so (and the issue of the swapped chassis numbers complicates this) cannot be the Climax V8 car although today it sits with an FPF fitted. On the subject of engine sizes Frank's second place at Goodwood was with a 1500cc engine, just sorted by Tony Mantle.

#13 David Beard

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 19:00

Originally posted by Simon Hadfield
On the subject of engine sizes Frank's second place at Goodwood was with a 1500cc engine, just sorted by Tony Mantle.


Hey Simon...we all know Whizzo had a bigger engine, but what entertainment :)

#14 tobbe j

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 19:07

Lotus 24
949 Coys auction 1998
P1 Speedmaster 2006 ore 7
P2 Brooks auction 1998

#15 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 17:46

From the information I gathered in this thread, I have made this list:

No. Entrant Driver Year Engine
18 Roger Weiland Richard Weiland 1962 Climax 1498cc - 950
19 Dieter Streve-Mulhens Dieter Streve-Mulhens 1962 Climax 1494cc - 947
20 Frank Sytner Frank Sytner 1962 Climax 1495cc - 949
21 Mark Wanty Mark Wanty 1962 Climax 1495cc - 942
23 Jeremy Agace Rob Hall 1962 BRM 1980cc - P1
24 Paul Smith Alan Baillie 1962 BRM 1998cc - P3
25 Paul Drayson Martin Stretton 1962 BRM 1495cc
26 Desmond Small Michael Vergers 1962 BRM 1495cc - 944

So the only unknown is the Paul Drayson car.

#16 Macca

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 18:09

I believe it might be P2, ex-Jose Albuquerque?


Paul M

#17 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 18:11

Originally posted by Macca
I believe it might be P2, ex-Jose Albuquerque?


Paul M


That is what my guess would be as well.

#18 David McKinney

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 19:00

Moi aussi
if only because Albuquerque and Lord Drayson are both customers of Martin Stretton Racing
Mind you so is - or certainly was - Dieter Streve-Mülhens...

#19 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 19:22

It does look like Walzer sold his car. The car Vergers drove was the one he raced in 2006, judging from the Monaco stickers on it.

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#20 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 11:15

I have just published the Lotus 24 Climax article here:
http://www.ultimatec...-24-Climax.html
Will add the BRM ones in due time as well.
Thanks for all your help.

#21 D-Type

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 13:36

I have come across a reference to Peter Revson racing a Parnell-entered 'Lola-bodied Lotus 24-BRM' in 1964. Can anybody shed any light on this?

#22 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 14:05

In simple terms, D, they fitted Lola Mk.4 bodywork to a Lotus chassis.

It looked like a Lola!

#23 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 14:09

Originally posted by D-Type
I have come across a reference to Peter Revson racing a Parnell-entered 'Lola-bodied Lotus 24-BRM' in 1964. Can anybody shed any light on this?


I believe that to be P1, the one that's currently for sale at Hall & Hall.

#24 D-Type

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 23:49

But why? What would be the advantage of a Lola body over a Lotus body?

Or was it a case of availability? We've got a spare Lotus chassis and Lola body and there's this American heir to a cosmetics fortune....

#25 arttidesco

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:30

Posted Image

Wondering if anyone can help me identify which BRM powered chassis Nigel Williams was driving at Goodwood last weekend ?

Answers maybe credited and used in a forth coming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your assistance.



#26 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:00

Posted Image

Wondering if anyone can help me identify which BRM powered chassis Nigel Williams was driving at Goodwood last weekend ?

Answers maybe credited and used in a forth coming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your assistance.


The Lola bodied P1.

#27 arttidesco

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:12

The Lola bodied P1.


Thank you Wouter :up:

Strange coincidence that this is the last car mentioned on this thread some years ago, are we any the wiser on what the reasoning was for fitting the Lola bodywork ?

Edited by arttidesco, 19 September 2012 - 11:13.


#28 Andy Arnold

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 20:01

Thank you Wouter :up:

Strange coincidence that this is the last car mentioned on this thread some years ago, are we any the wiser on what the reasoning was for fitting the Lola bodywork ?


Similar question , which 24 was Andrew Beaumont driving at Goodwood & does anyone have any pictures.

Thanks

#29 Mistron

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 20:14

I understood that the Parnell team ran Lolas at the same time, so assumed it was a matter of convenience - lesser quantity of spares required when traveling?

#30 arttidesco

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 20:17

Sorry Andy have no pics of the #30 in my collection :-(


#31 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 20:57

Innes at Aintree in 62

Posted Image

#32 Macca

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:58

#30 didn't last long in the race and I missed it in practise, but there's a shot here:
http://www.ultimatec...1-Cosworth.html

if anyone can help.

Paul M

#33 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 15:09

It did not last long in practice or the race but it looks like 940 to me.

#34 Andy Arnold

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 19:58

#30 didn't last long in the race and I missed it in practise, but there's a shot here:
http://www.ultimatec...1-Cosworth.html

if anyone can help.

Paul M


Thanks Paul,

Without the photo I was thinking Andrew maybe had borrowed David Coplowe's ex Jack Brabham 947 or it was 944 the ex udt car for sale with Hall & Hall, now seeing the photo it's clearly not 947 but comparing the photo against those on the H&H site the roll bar is different. Comparing the driver in the Lola Andrew sit's higher so I assume he's had a new bigger roll bar fitted to accomodate him? but then again where's 943 the other UDT climax 24.

Thanks to all

Andy

#35 Wouter Melissen

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:46

Apologies for my earlier comment. It is not 940. I had labelled the shots from 2010 wrongly. I believe it is 944 with a new or additional roll bar. The two small stickers that are on the cockpit surround on the Hall & Hall car are also on this one.

#36 Peter Morley

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 15:57

I just found a French website (seven-passion) that has detail photos of the Lotuses in the Schlumpf museum.

 

The 24 (with FPF) photos show the chassis plate saying 949 - attached to the front/pedal bulkhead.

The description refers to DCN saying that 949 and 950 had their identities swapped by Lotus.

That fits with everything referring to Siffert's car (that was later fitted with an FPF) as being 950 - and it is a BRM chassis (like 950) not a Climax chassis (like 949).

Given the car has been there for over 40 years, and came from Siffert, it seems likely that it is 950 and always had 949's chassis plate while in Siffert's possession - but how did that fit with Filipinetti's paperwork being for 950, and how/why did record keepers & customs people think it was 950?

 

That then raises the question of Frank Sytner's car that is apparently 949 and has a BRM chassis? Would it have been known as 950 at one point?

Collomb wrote off the Climax engine/chassied 949 at Syracuse in 1965 and later rebuilt it around a new chassis could that be when it gained the BRM chassis?

 

Then, given the above, which car is Ric Weiland's that is apparently 950 and has a Climax V8?



#37 Tuboscocca

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 18:03

I just found a French website (seven-passion) that has detail photos of the Lotuses in the Schlumpf museum.

 

The 24 (with FPF) photos show the chassis plate saying 949 - attached to the front/pedal bulkhead.

The description refers to DCN saying that 949 and 950 had their identities swapped by Lotus.

That fits with everything referring to Siffert's car (that was later fitted with an FPF) as being 950 - and it is a BRM chassis (like 950) not a Climax chassis (like 949).

Given the car has been there for over 40 years, and came from Siffert, it seems likely that it is 950 and always had 949's chassis plate while in Siffert's possession - but how did that fit with Filipinetti's paperwork being for 950, and how/why did record keepers & customs people think it was 950?

 

That then raises the question of Frank Sytner's car that is apparently 949 and has a BRM chassis? Would it have been known as 950 at one point?

Collomb wrote off the Climax engine/chassied 949 at Syracuse in 1965 and later rebuilt it around a new chassis could that be when it gained the BRM chassis?

 

Then, given the above, which car is Ric Weiland's that is apparently 950 and has a Climax V8?

Peter this one??

 

http://www.seven-pas...ollection-sc-24

 

Michael



#38 Peter Morley

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 23:12

Yes that's the link - unfortunately I can't get things like photos and links to work on this forum at present.

 

There are similar pages on the 18 & 25/33 on that website.



#39 Tuboscocca

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:27

Peter

 

...."- unfortunately I can't get things like photos and links to work on this forum at present."

 

YOU are not alone, without opening this theme again... :drunk:

 

Michael