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#101 David Beard

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 17:27

Originally posted by David M. Kane
That Ireland shot is awesome, wouldn't want to hit that wall.


Or that kerb, or that road sign.... :eek:

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#102 Skilleter

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:11

Can anybody help me with a project I am working on please? I am presently putting together a book to celebrate Lola's 50th Anniversary this year and would love to hear from anybody who had raced or owned Lola's in the past. Also there are some terrific photos on the forum that I would love to have in the book but obviously need to seek permission from the copyright holders.

If you can help with any Lola anecdotes, photos, stories etc please can you get back to me soonest.

Thank you

Lorie Coffey

#103 Jerry Entin

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 00:46

Posted Image
Brian Redman in Sid Taylor's McLaren Mk 18
photo lent site Rich Harman-copyright Rich Harman

#104 Jerry Entin

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 09:07

Posted Image
Peter Gethin behind Sid Taylor's Mk 18 McLaren.
Sid Taylor is seen on the other side of car. Peter Gethin did a beautiful job of driving for Sid Taylor in the Inter Serie and in F-5000. He also came over to the states to help Sid Taylor at Donnybrooke in 1972, he drove the Chevron B-24, F-5000 car. This was the car that Brian Redman had been running. Brian was unable to attend that race due to sportscar commitments.
A fellow came in the pits at that race. He said he was getting a Chevron F-5000 the next year to run and could he hang out with us. I said better than that you can help me. I was running the Chevron for Peter Gethin and Sid Taylor was running his older McLaren Mk 10 for John Cannon at this race. He told me his name was Doug Shierson, and that he was from Michigan. Doug pitched in and Peter just drove away from everyone. A rear hub broke. We had to start last in the main race Peter Gethin came from last and won going away. Because he didn't finish the first heat he was classified as 4th. Doug Shierson hired Peter Gethin on the spot to drive for him the next year.
photo lent site Rich Harman-copyright Rich Harman

#105 drivers71

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 10:07

Jerry.
Such wonderful memories here of a great period of racing and a great character.
I 'followed' Sid's F5000 team throughout it's time in England, and always thought it the most professional and effective, and with the top drivers. After reading some of the recollections here, I discover it possibly wasn't quite so organised and calmly efficient as I imagined at the time!
He opened a great club in West Bromwich (5 miles from Birmingham city centre, for those who don't know), my home town for the first 20 years of my life, called the 'Steering Wheel' club, and we spent many happy evenings there. It was the same time and style as Martin Hone's 'Opposite Lock' club in Brum, but much more exclusive!
Sid Taylor, the man and his cars, deserves a documented place in history, and if you want to use any of the photos I've taken from that time, just let me know - I'll send you higher resolution versions than those I am in the process of posting elsewhere in TNF.
Cheers
Rich

#106 Jerry Entin

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 12:57

Posted Image
Doug Shierson in front of the Chevron that Peter Gethin drove for him in 1973.
That is George Thornton leaning into the car working on it. This is from Mid Ohio. They dropped out of this race and Sid Taylor wanted me to use their really nice signal board to give Jody Scheckter signals with. I told the story earlier.
above photo lent site Rob Neuzel. www.yesterdaysneuz.com
Rob's site now has video's on it and also very nice Indy and CanAm and F-5000 pictures too see, a must stop.

Rich: I didn't mean to make Sid Taylor's team sound unorganized. He always had his cars at the events and they always were presented in top shape. Ron Bennett and Julian Randles were his crew. He also used Richie Bray in 1971 for Brian Redman's effort. The car always was ready to go.

Posted Image
Kerry Agapiou strapping Jody Scheckter in.
Ron Bennett can be seen at the back of the car. Those are Goodyear rain tires on the car. The van next to them is Doug Shierson's Marathon Oil Van.
Back to Doug Shierson. In 1973 after he hired Peter Gethin to drive his George Thornton and Franz Pucher prepared Chevron. He started out by winning the Race of Champions against the Formula One cars. This was in May at Brands Hatch. Marathon Oil was Doug Shierson's sponsor. His father had the Marathon fuel depot in Adrian, Michigan. In 1973 Sid Taylor's team worked out of Doug Shierson's shop in Adrian, Michigan. This was when we were in the midwest area. Sid's team in 1973 was Ron Bennett and Kerry Agapiou. The car they ran was called a Trojan. Jody Scheckter was the driver.


#107 ghinzani

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 20:03

Jerry this is an absolutely brilliant thread - just taking you back a while when you told the story about Jody and the pitboard I was by coincidence reading an old Private Ear bit from Autosport where the exact same story was told, although with a degree of spin that inferred yourself and Sid were a travelling arguement on tour throughout the USA. Having seen the absolutely massive respect you hold Sid in it really shows that story in a different light as written in Autosport.

#108 Jerry Entin

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 22:11

Posted Image
Jody Scheckter at Monterey in 1973.
Peter Gethin is behind Jody in this photo, this was the first F-5000 race that Jody was to win in the states on his way to becoming the 1973 F-5000 Champion.
Ghinzani: The story you read was what Jody Scheckter had thought of the incident. I never argued with Sid Taylor about anything and held him in the highest regard. I think Jody may have been kidding when he told someone we got in an argument and I wouldn't give him signals. He did say though he thought I was run over in the pits or something. Kerry Agapiou was giving Jody signals with Doug Shierson's real nice Formula One type board. Jody was looking for me and didn't pay any attention to Kerry. In 1973 Jody could run with anyone. He was phenomenal.

above photo Dick Bame

#109 Jerry Entin

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 20:50

Posted Image
The good looking guy on the left is Sid Taylor in 1975.
This picture was taken at the 1975 British Grand Prix at Silverstone
photo Rich Harman

#110 Jerry Entin

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 07:47

Posted Image
Sid Taylor's Lola T-70 as it appears today.
Posted Image
Sid Taylor's Lola Coupe as it appears today.
photographed last weekend at the Donington Grande Passione
I do not know for sure that these cars were actually Sid's cars This is how they appeared at the recent event. The names are reversed on the door of the Spyder or roadster compared to the picture of Sid in the car as it appears on page 2 of this thread. And of course the rollbar is more modern. Sid also ran weber 58mm carbs on a side draft manifold. These are 48mm Webers on a down draft manifold.
Photos Rich Harman

#111 Giraffe

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:03

I can't vouch for the Minshaw's T70Mk11 Spyder, but I'm sure I heard Nick Linney, owner of the pictured T70Mk111B saying when interviewed on the Sunday that it was not actually an ex-Sid Taylor car. Still, it looked great and went well over the weekend.

#112 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 00:33

Posted Image
Denis Hulme at Riverside in 1966 in Sid Taylor's T-70.
photo Gil Munz-scanned for site Ike Smith.

#113 Jerry Entin

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 12:26

Posted Image
Alan Jones driving the Theodore T-332 Lola F-5000 car
This is at Mid Ohio in 1976 and Sid Taylor can be seen on the right behind Lee Gaug of Goodyear tire. Sid ran this team for Teddy Yip in 1975 and 1976.

photo Larry Neuzel - www.yesterdaysneuz.com

#114 Jerry Entin

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:25

Posted Image
Vern Schuppan in the Sid Taylor run Lola T-332.
This picture is from Oulton Park and the Good Friday meet in 1975.
Teddy Yip of Hong Kong sponsored Vern in this car. Sid Taylor was the team manager. Tony Brise would also drive for this team as would Patrick Tambay and Alan Jones.

Photo Alan Cox

#115 Jerry Entin

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 12:21

Posted Image
Ron Bennett and Sid Taylor pushing Jody Scheckter
This was at Pocono in 1973. Car is Lola T-330

Photo Jim Knerr
More of Jim Knerr's great photos: http://flickr.com/photos/27666849@N04/

#116 rdmotorsport

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 19:49

Hi Jerry,

Wonderful photographs ( reminds me must scan some of mine for you to place on this forum ) but I saw Sid where is the good looking man you mentioned?!

Rodney

#117 Jerry Entin

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 15:14

Posted Image
Jody Scheckter and Brian Redman at Pocono in 1973.
In 1973 Jody Scheckter drove for Sid Taylor in the F-5000 series. He drove a Trojan T101 and then a Lola T-330.
In 1972 Sid Taylor helped Brian Redman run his Chevron B24, F-5000 car in the states. In 1973 Brian Redman drove for the Haas/Hall F-5000 Team in a Lola T-330.

photo- Jim Knerr

#118 Jerry Entin

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 00:14

Posted Image
Tony Brise driving the Sid Taylor ran Lola T 332.
This was from Long Beach in 1975, Tony Brise did a magnificient job of driving and everyone who had the pleasure of meeting Tony really remembered what a great competitor Tony was.
This car was sponsored by Teddy Yip of Hong Kong. And his team was called Theodore Racing.
The crew were Graham Donaldson, Kerry Agapiou and Julian Randles.

photo Victor Oliver
lent site Kurt Engelmann collection. http://www.myf5000.com/

Edited by Jerry Entin, 05 August 2010 - 09:42.


#119 petestenning

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 15:01

I have an entry in a programme in 1962 of a Sidney Taylor driving a Lotus Elite dated 6th August 1962 at Mallory Park a NSCC meeting would this be the Sid Taylor can anyone confirm ?





Pete

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#120 David McKinney

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 15:57

Same chap

#121 Jerry Entin

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 03:25

Posted Image
Sid Taylor with Ron Bennett working on the Peter Gethin driven McLaren Mk 10.
Next to Peter Gethin in the red outfit is Julian Randles.
photo Kal.917 - scanned for site Henk A. Hazelaar.

#122 Jerry Entin

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:55

Posted Image
Sid Taylor's Lola T-70 Coupe.
Car was driven by Denis Hulme to a fine win at the Thruxton meeting in August of 1969.
photographer Keith Lewcock

#123 Gerald Swan

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 16:15

Jerry, the photographer for the picture of Sid's car at the Kodak Trophy, Thruxton in August 1969 is Keith Lewcock. He kindly sent me a copy for Lola Heritage and it's on show HERE together with a couple of other shots of Sid's T70 courtesy of Ian Wagstaff.

Gerald.

#124 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:22

Thanks for the infos and great pictures , but boy would I love to see the transporter on the right !

#125 Jerry Entin

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 18:58

Posted Image
Sid Taylor in front of his Lola T-70 Coupe

photo Ian Wagstaff

#126 Giraffe

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 09:32

Posted Image
By giraffe138

Pictured here is Nick Linney in his Sid Taylor liveried LolaT70 MK3B hunting down Charlie Kemp's Lola T210 at last month's Masters event at Donington Park. Linney also won last week's Historic Sports Car Challenge supporting the Grand Prix at Silverstone.
Autosport magazine declared it to be the ex-Sid Taylor/Denny Hulme car, and whilst it very much looks like it, as I said earlier in this thread in April of last year, I definately heard Nick say when interviewed that it was not actually the Taylor car.
The Taylor car was SL76/138, so which car is Linney's???

Edited by Giraffe, 26 June 2009 - 09:34.


#127 alansart

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:02

The Taylor car was SL76/138, so which car is Linney's???


Lola Heritage has it as the Taylor car.

http://www.lolaherit...egister/t70.htm


#128 Giraffe

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 10:41

Thanks Alan. A little further delving by way John Starkey's book reveals that SL76/138 was re-chassised in 1986 with a new tub from the works. The old tub was sold to Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt who built up another car in 1987 which was raced in South Africa and then sold on in 1989.
Now somewhat complicating the issue, SL76/138 with the new tub was crashed comprehensively on 19th March 1988 by Mike Wheatley at the East London Circuit in South Africa, and the wreck and spares were sold to...... you guessed it!.... Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt, who rebuilt the car on a new chassis..........

On that basis, there appear to be two Lola T70 MK3B SL76/138's about, both having had the original Sid Taylor tub at one time, but neither having it presently!!! The Lola T70 saga generally is at best, a complex issue!!! :well:

#129 Giraffe

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 11:04

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2009-01-06

There, lurking behind David Piper's T70 SL76/150 in the Tourist Trophy paddock at Oulton Park in May 1969, is what is assuredly SL76/138 that was driven for Sid by Brian Redman in that race, and crashed twice when tyres deflated on two seperate occasions, eventually leaving it in the ditch at Knickerbrook.

#130 Giraffe

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 15:33

Sid had his first foray into F5000 with Robin Widdows in a Lola T142 Bartz. It was in usual Sid Taylor livery, except the green stripes had been replaced with red!?!? I seem to remember him using blue in place of the usual green on the McLaren M10B, but had he ever used red before? What was the significance if the similar livery but in different colours, I wonder?
The car was entered for the inaugural F5000 meeting at Oulton Park, but was a DNS. It did manage to finish 5th on it's debut at Mallory on Whit Monday, the same day Brian Redman was racing Sid's T70MK3B in the Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park. Practice for the TT had been on the Saturday, a very wet day, and Widdows had pitched up late in the day driving his Cortina 1600E in his racing overalls with the Lola on an open trailer behind it at Oulton to show the car to Redman! With practice over and no marshals out on the circuit, Brian asked Sid if he could take the T142 for a spin in the pouring rain, which he duly did! I have 8mm movie film of Widdows arriving, and of Redman belting down the pit straight with great rooster tails rising above the Lola's huge rear wing!
Brian comes into the pits, and jumps out as Widdows jumps in and takes off again, all watched by Sid in his black leather jacket and thin black tie, chatting away animatedly with Jo Bonnier in his pork-pie hat! I have this now on disc but it needs editing which I will endeavour to do as Brian Redman has told me he'd like to see it! I will also try to post some stills on this thread.

Edited by Giraffe, 27 June 2009 - 15:35.


#131 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 22:48

Sid had his first foray into F5000 with Robin Widdows in a Lola T142 Bartz. It was in usual Sid Taylor livery, except the green stripes had been replaced with red!?!? I seem to remember him using blue in place of the usual green on the McLaren M10B, but had he ever used red before? What was the significance if the similar livery but in different colours, I wonder?
The car was entered for the inaugural F5000 meeting at Oulton Park, but was a DNS. It did manage to finish 5th on it's debut at Mallory on Whit Monday, the same day Brian Redman was racing Sid's T70MK3B in the Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park. Practice for the TT had been on the Saturday, a very wet day, and Widdows had pitched up late in the day driving his Cortina 1600E in his racing overalls with the Lola on an open trailer behind it at Oulton to show the car to Redman! With practice over and no marshals out on the circuit, Brian asked Sid if he could take the T142 for a spin in the pouring rain, which he duly did! I have 8mm movie film of Widdows arriving, and of Redman belting down the pit straight with great rooster tails rising above the Lola's huge rear wing!
Brian comes into the pits, and jumps out as Widdows jumps in and takes off again, all watched by Sid in his black leather jacket and thin black tie, chatting away animatedly with Jo Bonnier in his pork-pie hat! I have this now on disc but it needs editing which I will endeavour to do as Brian Redman has told me he'd like to see it! I will also try to post some stills on this thread.

Sid entered Chris Craft in a LOLA T140 at Phoenix Park , 1n September 1968, the car was plain white .

#132 Giraffe

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:39

Sid entered Chris Craft in a LOLA T140 at Phoenix Park , 1n September 1968, the car was plain white .


That is interesting Edward. A couple of Lolas had made appearances at club races pre-the official launch of F5000 this side of the Atlantic, but the car that Widdows drove for Sid was definitely a T142 and not a T140, so it seems it was not the same car. Sid had entered Robin in club races as early as March 1969 in a "Lola F5000" but I'm unsure if it was the T140 as the T142 with the red stripe did not appear until the day I saw it, 25th May 1969, and it did have that "new car" look about it, as my recording witnesses.
The only other "early" appearance of a F5000 Lola that year was that of Tony Lanfranchi in one, but I don't think it was anything to do with Sid.


#133 Giraffe

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 15:41

Sid had his first foray into F5000 with Robin Widdows in a Lola T142 Bartz. It was in usual Sid Taylor livery, except the green stripes had been replaced with red!?!? I seem to remember him using blue in place of the usual green on the McLaren M10B, but had he ever used red before? What was the significance if the similar livery but in different colours, I wonder?
The car was entered for the inaugural F5000 meeting at Oulton Park, but was a DNS. It did manage to finish 5th on it's debut at Mallory on Whit Monday, the same day Brian Redman was racing Sid's T70MK3B in the Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park. Practice for the TT had been on the Saturday, a very wet day, and Widdows had pitched up late in the day driving his Cortina 1600E in his racing overalls with the Lola on an open trailer behind it at Oulton to show the car to Redman! With practice over and no marshals out on the circuit, Brian asked Sid if he could take the T142 for a spin in the pouring rain, which he duly did! I have 8mm movie film of Widdows arriving, and of Redman belting down the pit straight with great rooster tails rising above the Lola's huge rear wing!
Brian comes into the pits, and jumps out as Widdows jumps in and takes off again, all watched by Sid in his black leather jacket and thin black tie, chatting away animatedly with Jo Bonnier in his pork-pie hat! I have this now on disc but it needs editing which I will endeavour to do as Brian Redman has told me he'd like to see it! I will also try to post some stills on this thread.


Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-13
Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-13
Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-13
Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-13
Posted Image
By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-13

These images are "off screen" and can hopefully be improved on when I get them lifted off disc!

Edited by Giraffe, 13 July 2009 - 15:43.


#134 larryd

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 22:53

Mary drove at Phoenix Park twice , Imp once and a Cooper S , she also raced on British tracks , Syd was into bikes before cars and sustained serious injuries which left him with a very bad limp , following an early morning accident on a BSA Goldstar ( for Mo Murray, it happened on Knocklyon Road ) . As a 14 year old I was really impressed impressed , he set the lap record at 111mph , awesome stuff in 66. Another connection , Derek Daly was brought to the meeting to watch Syd , liked what he saw , and the rest is history .


If I remember correctly, Mary stuffed the "S" at Phoenix Park in early morning practice in (I think) 1966 or 1967.

It was at the long right-hander, after what afterwards became Ratra Hairpin, before you turned in to the right to go round the Zoo - there was a stone wall about 10/15 yards from the racing surface, with trees at intervals against the wall.

Didn't do herself any good!


#135 Simon Thomas

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 07:38

If I remember correctly, Mary stuffed the "S" at Phoenix Park in early morning practice in (I think) 1966 or 1967.

It was at the long right-hander, after what afterwards became Ratra Hairpin, before you turned in to the right to go round the Zoo - there was a stone wall about 10/15 yards from the racing surface, with trees at intervals against the wall.

Didn't do herself any good!


For Phoenix Park in 1968, Sid himself was listed to drive the car, however by the time the car arrived, complete with high wing, Sid had changed his mind. Widdows and Peter Gethin may have been approached but Chris Craft eventually drove it.
For Larry, the T70 Sid drove in 1967 was the Tony Sargent car from the previous year, Jersey Racing Partnership, painted a greeny/turquoise colour, pity it rained that year.
Simon Thomas

#136 Giraffe

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 19:06

Thanks Alan. A little further delving by way John Starkey's book reveals that SL76/138 was re-chassised in 1986 with a new tub from the works. The old tub was sold to Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt who built up another car in 1987 which was raced in South Africa and then sold on in 1989.
Now somewhat complicating the issue, SL76/138 with the new tub was crashed comprehensively on 19th March 1988 by Mike Wheatley at the East London Circuit in South Africa, and the wreck and spares were sold to...... you guessed it!.... Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt, who rebuilt the car on a new chassis..........

On that basis, there appear to be two Lola T70 MK3B SL76/138's about, both having had the original Sid Taylor tub at one time, but neither having it presently!!! The Lola T70 saga generally is at best, a complex issue!!! :well:


Posted Image
By giraffe138

Whilst taking a photo of Simon Hadfield climbing out of the Matra MS80 at the Silverstone Classic on Saturday, I was genuinely taken aback by him leaping from the car and recognising my TNF polo shirt with my "Giraffe #81" logo, introducing himself to me! (Good to know Simon is a TNF'er! :wave: ) Briefly, he told me that Nick Linney's T70 is the genuine SL76/138 with chassis plate etc, "one of the very few genuine T70's here today" he said, which is a bit worrying! I take it from that, that the Linney car is the car with the heritage of the original car that was re-chassised in 1986, thus retaining it's providence, and not the re-tubbed car that resulted from the build-up on the old tub. I wonder if that car still exists, and if it also carries an SL76/138 plate?!?!

Edited by Giraffe, 26 July 2009 - 19:08.


#137 Giraffe

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:06

Posted Image
By giraffe138

Sid & JoBo.

#138 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 13:30

One of the nicest things that happened over the Silverstone weekend was the appearance on Sunday morning of Ron Bennett. He came to see "if it really is my old car" and we chatted for twenty minutes or so and he confirmed, from various little details still on the car that it was the 138 that he had known and worked on all those years ago - and his stories of some of it's drivers are fascinating, particularly when Frank and Denny shared the car!

Edited by Simon Hadfield, 27 July 2009 - 13:32.


#139 Giraffe

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 15:09

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2009-07-27

The Linney / Hadfield T70Mk3B now firmly established as SL76/138 thanks to Ron Bennett out in practice on Friday about to overtake the similar car of Jon Minshaw.

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#140 Mark 13

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 15:46

Thanks Alan. A little further delving by way John Starkey's book reveals that SL76/138 was re-chassised in 1986 with a new tub from the works. The old tub was sold to Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt who built up another car in 1987 which was raced in South Africa and then sold on in 1989.
Now somewhat complicating the issue, SL76/138 with the new tub was crashed comprehensively on 19th March 1988 by Mike Wheatley at the East London Circuit in South Africa, and the wreck and spares were sold to...... you guessed it!.... Mike Ostroumoff & John Hunt, who rebuilt the car on a new chassis..........

On that basis, there appear to be two Lola T70 MK3B SL76/138's about, both having had the original Sid Taylor tub at one time, but neither having it presently!!! The Lola T70 saga generally is at best, a complex issue!!! :well:


The whole issue of Lola T70's is inevitable given the materials used in construction of the tubs. There is little chance that an original 1969 tub would stand the kind of stress produced in a 90 minute race as we saw on saturday evening. IMO with continuation cars being built to period spec it is a fair compromise and gives us the chance to see a grid of T70's bigger than anything in the group 4 era of Craft, Gardner etc The real issue is that cars like the 512M would have been much faster in 71 but in todays historic racing world will not approach the best T70's. I spoke to a prominent racing journo a few years ago and he was in nick masons 512S but was struggling to cope with an Alfa T33 which had improved by 4 seconds from the previous year.

The point is that I love these cars and am happy to see so many being driven quickly, but realistically the Mk3B's are not the cars they were in 1969. Some of them are converted Mk 3's anyway. Chris Rea made the point recently regarding his Elan being prepared to original spec but not able to compete with highly 'developed' cars and I have heard the same from those competing against prominent lightweight E-Types etc.


#141 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 17:14

Actually there are several T70 Mk3Bs with their original 1969 monocoques and having driven one of them (not 138 obviously) I can confirm there is no difference in performance whatsoever. A Ferrari 512 would be quicker than any of the Lolas if - and only if - one was run with the same commitment and corresponding budget as that being spent on the T70s, until that happy day the Lolas will win out. And finally you cannot convert a Mk3 into a 3B, the only component they share is the windscreen, the Mk3 is a sister to the Mk1 and 2 spyders, the Mk3B is more or less a T160 Can Am car with lights and a roof.

#142 Giraffe

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 17:55

Thankyou for that clarification, Simon. It's good to get this stuff! I wonder whatever happened to the "other" 138 though?!?! Does it bear the 138 chassis plate too???

#143 Mark 13

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 18:40

Actually there are several T70 Mk3Bs with their original 1969 monocoques and having driven one of them (not 138 obviously) I can confirm there is no difference in performance whatsoever. A Ferrari 512 would be quicker than any of the Lolas if - and only if - one was run with the same commitment and corresponding budget as that being spent on the T70s, until that happy day the Lolas will win out. And finally you cannot convert a Mk3 into a 3B, the only component they share is the windscreen, the Mk3 is a sister to the Mk1 and 2 spyders, the Mk3B is more or less a T160 Can Am car with lights and a roof.


Thanks for the response Simon, it is exactly what i was after.
It is great to see so many T70's in one race. When i was very young i was taken to Croft and Oulton when the likes of Frank Gardner and Chris Craft won races in these cars but there were never more than 5 or 6 in any single race.
I have read all versions of John Starkeys book and the chassis history section is at best sketchy, even on the updated version. There are a few questions you could answer. Why are there so few Mk 3 coupes running in historic events. I remember quite a few in the past, from memory Terry Smith, Yvan Mahe, Eoin Pugh are names I remember. On the subject of re-chassis work. Why would you undertake that work if it was not necessary, a number of people have suggested to me that the aluminium may suffer over time. There are also a few cars that i have not seen recently, like the Barbot , Nick Amey and David Piper cars. I noticed Clive B was looking after one T70 but no sign of the Bonnier liveried car.
The 512S conversation I had (with Mark Hales) was quite pointed in relation to the Alfa T33 development.


#144 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 19:23

So many questions! All answers are to the best of my knowledge - I dont know what identity John and Mike gave their bitsa but I would have thought it unlikely to have been 138 as that car continued to race after being retubbed by Mike Wheatley. The Mk3s all continue to race only in other areas, the Terry Smith car (actually the Phil Scragg hillclimb car) is in Portugal I think, the Pugh car has not yet resurfaced after a large accident some years back, the Bailly family continue to race their car in France, Frank Sytners Mk3 races in Germany with Michael Hinderer and so on - the reason we are seeing more Mk3Bs is that historic racing is very "fashion lead" and at the moment Mk3Bs are fashionable - they really do give an enormous amount of performance for your buck! With the advent of "continuation" cars the trend has been to "continue" only the good cars and so we see evermore Chevron B16s, 19s, T70Mk3Bs etc and thus the grids become evermore distorted - strangely nobody has made continuations of any of the oddball cars that were around. As to why cars have been retubbed there are many reasons, from the case of 138 where the owner was convinced (wrongly in my opinion but then again I never saw the tub at the time) that a new tub would be better, to accident damage that had been badly repaired (dont forget that at some point in these cars lives they were worth almost nothing and therefore repairs were done on the cheap) to corrosion - I have seen cars where you see the floor though the tub! - to just wear and tear. When Frank Sytner purchased 138 some years ago after it had been damaged at Classic Le Mans some one had tried to straighten the tub on a Carbench road car jig and the still bent tub still had the claw marks!
Carlos Barbots Bonnier liveried Mk3B is also racing in Portugal this year.

Edited by Simon Hadfield, 27 July 2009 - 19:27.


#145 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 19:40

As to the Alfa T33 shouldnt that beat a 512? My comments about the 512 can also apply to the Alfa - if someone really put their mind to it with the right budget, one of these could be brilliant but you would probably have to make everything, ratios, crownwheel and pinions, all engine parts etc from scratch where all the above are so easily available for English cars and English and American engines.

#146 Giraffe

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 20:30

where all the above are so easily available for English cars and English and American engines.

....and this is precisely why so many professional drivers and teams chose to race them in period, because they were relatively easily maintained and competitive tools that could earn them a good living.
I am currently going through standard 8mm film I shot of the 1969 Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park frame by frame identifying pics I want lifted for posting here. Amongst them are some great pics of Sid's transporter with all the spare bodywork stood along it's side in line; he seemed to be expecting trouble, which is exactly what he got! Brian Redman demolished a rear section on lap 40 at Island Bend whilst leading, and having had it replaced, did exactly the same 6 laps later at Knicker Brook, demolishing the tail section again, and the exhaust system! "It was one hell of a thump!" he reminded me whilst chatting to him at Goodwood recently.
However, my favourite T70MK3B will never be seen again; SL76/142, which is buried in a gravel pit in Slough.......

Pictured here by me on the morning of May 26th, 1969......


Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2009-05-16

Edited by Giraffe, 27 July 2009 - 20:32.


#147 petestenning

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 06:20

I too am a Lola fan there were as someone said more than 6/7 , take Snetterton April 1969 there were 8 on the entry list , The De Udy, Frank Gardner Car never started due to suspension failure.
The Techspeed car of Cris Craft was a mk3 despite the programme saying all were MK3 B's.

The Hawkins car was the start for me that day hanging on to the Brian Redman 'Sid Taylor car till head gasket went .
Retirements Trevor Taylor 'Team Elite' , Richard Attwood in John Woolfes car, and David Pipers mk3 also retired with head gasket trouble.The second placed Ecurie Bonnier car .
so out of 8 cars that run 2 were MK3 ' Craft/Attwood, meaning 6 MK3 S at what was the first race for the MK3 B S


Pete


#148 Giraffe

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 07:48

I too am a Lola fan there were as someone said more than 6/7 , take Snetterton April 1969 there were 8 on the entry list , The De Udy, Frank Gardner Car never started due to suspension failure.
The Techspeed car of Cris Craft was a mk3 despite the programme saying all were MK3 B's.

The Hawkins car was the start for me that day hanging on to the Brian Redman 'Sid Taylor car till head gasket went .
Retirements Trevor Taylor 'Team Elite' , Richard Attwood in John Woolfes car, and David Pipers mk3 also retired with head gasket trouble.The second placed Ecurie Bonnier car .
so out of 8 cars that run 2 were MK3 ' Craft/Attwood, meaning 6 MK3 S at what was the first race for the MK3 B S


Pete


The first T70MK3B completed was the first to race and the first to win, that being SL76/139, the Penske Daytona winner. The Norinder car, SL76/141 debuted at the same race, Feb 1/2 1969, but retired. SL76/138, Sid's car that appeared at the Racing Car Show was originally sold to Mo Nunn who sold it to Sid in time for it's debut on March 30th at Brands Hatch, along with SL76/142, the Hawkins car pictured.

Edited by Giraffe, 28 July 2009 - 07:49.


#149 petestenning

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 13:48

The first T70MK3B completed was the first to race and the first to win, that being SL76/139, the Penske Daytona winner. The Norinder car, SL76/141 debuted at the same race, Feb 1/2 1969, but retired. SL76/138, Sid's car that appeared at the Racing Car Show was originally sold to Mo Nunn who sold it to Sid in time for it's debut on March 30th at Brands Hatch, along with SL76/142, the Hawkins car pictured.



I stand corrected on the first appearance .


Pete

#150 Danny Skehan

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 14:48

Sid entered Chris Craft in a LOLA T140 at Phoenix Park , 1n September 1968, the car was plain white .




Is this the car - I'm sure Edward will know!!


Posted Image