Jump to content


Photo

Anyone have information on Cooper Monaco CM/2/63?


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

#1 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 02:46

I'm hoping someone here can help me. As some of you know, I am now embarking on writing a book about the Cooper Monaco Type 61M cars (those intended for V8 Swaps). I have at least some information about each of the 15 cars except for one. CM/2/63 was sold to W. Mitchell in February of '63 less engine and gearbox. That's all I know. There is also some indication that Jim Hall had a white T-61M monaco at Daytona USRRC Feb, 3 1963. Can anyone get me any further down the trail? Thanks, Chuck Brandt

P.S. In case you are interested here is some of what I have on the other cars. Please let me know of any problems here.

CM/4/62 Bruce McLaren's prototype T-61M, sold to Roger Penske.
CM/5/62 Jack Hinkle's car eventually sold to Tracy Bird who installed ferrari v12 power.
CM/1/63 Shelby King Cobra driven by Dave MacDonald eventually sold to Charles Cox.
CM/2/63 ????
CM/3/63 Shelby King Cobra Bob Holbert originally drove this one.
CM/4/63 Nicky Chevrolet - this may also have become George Wintersteens?
CM/5/63 Comstock's first car with larger radiator opening, wrecked by Eppie Wietz and scrapped.
CM/6/63 Second Comstock Car, driven by Ludwig Heimrath and also Walt McKay. Sold to Nat Adams
CM/1/64 Lang Cooper wrecked by Bob Holbert, rebuilt with a new frame and body designed by Pete Brock
CM/2/64 John Mecom used it as the basis of the Hussein 1.
CM/3/64 A Cooper Chevy with some racing history, currently for sale in California.
CM/4/64 Shelby King Cobra raced twice.
CM/5/64 Shelby King Cobra (this car and CM/6/64 had a big spoiler and Cortina tail lights)
CM/6/64 Shelby King Cobra - Parnelli Jones car
Barry Brown Car, this car was built from a spare frame in the 80s. Currently vintage racing in europe.

Advertisement

#2 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 05:17

I have a note that Jack Boxtron was advertising an "unused rolling chassis" with the number CM2/63 in, IIRC, the 1970s or 1980s, and I thought this is the one that went to Barry Brown
Or did someone merely supply a convenient missing number?

#3 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 08:04

Originally posted by chuckbrandt
CM/2/63 was sold to W. Mitchell in February of '63 less engine and gearbox.

Could that be Wayne Mitchell? Sounds a bit early for him to be driving something so big but it's possible. Wayne drove FCs and FBs in the mid-1960s. He posts on 10 Tenths from time to time so he's easy to ask.

Allen

#4 Gerr

Gerr
  • Member

  • 687 posts
  • Joined: April 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 08:19

W. Mitchell ?

William "Bill" Mitchell, VP of GM design.

#5 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 09:11

That makes more sense.

#6 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,966 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:26

Is the Bib Stillwell car of any interest?

#7 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:46

I didn't know Stillwell had a 61M

#8 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:57

If it went to GM it certainly could have ended up with Jim Hall. Here is a quote from Doug Nye's excellent book "Cooper Cars":

"Across the Atlantic, on 3 February, the USRRC season commenced with Jim Hall - Texan constructor of Chaparral cars - winning at Daytona in his white-painted T61M from three Porsches, a Dino and Corporal Timmy Mayer's ex-Penske Monaco-Climax."

That seems like a good theory... But Doug says CM/2/63 was delivered in February, and the race was February 2nd. And it says it was Climax powered.

Chuck

#9 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 13:21

Chuck

Don't read too much into those dates in Cooper records. I've found that they can sometimes be a little after the first appearance date of a car - maybe because the car was more important to get sorted out than the paperwork.

I wonder if the original records give other details, such as the colour of the car. Maybe Doug still has copies of the originals.

Where had the works/Penske 4/62 got to by Feb 1963? The Mayer car was his earlier Cooper-Monaco wasn't it?

Allen

#10 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,966 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 29 April 2006 - 14:11

Originally posted by David McKinney
I didn't know Stillwell had a 61M


I know that David, I simply asked if it was of any interest, having been one of the first converted to V8.

#11 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 14:26

It's definitely hard to keep the Monacos associated with Roger Penske straight. I've written him a letter which hopefully he will answer, but obviously he's a very busy guy. You see Bruce driving it in '62. Doug says by Nassau ('62?) it had been sold to Roger. Also in '63 Roger sold his cars to John Mecom Jr. but still drove them. I have an article that I think is from '63 showing how Troutman & Barnes put a 283 Chevy in Roger's Monaco "heavy walled tubing version". In one picture (below) it shows the rear body work which I believe is unique to Bruce's car CM/4/62.

Posted Image

Doug also makes reference to smooth front end bodywork being installed.

But then you might get concerned by the following picture. It's at a "Texas Special 5 lap race" probably at Green Valley. Penske won driving the cooper-chevy #36. It's clearly towards the end of '63 as both of the king cobras are in their configuration (bundle of snakes exhaust) that they ran at Nassau. So which car is this? New bodywork on CM/4/62?

Posted Image

Chuck

#12 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 14:36

Ray,
That's a tough call. Currently I'm thinking I should focus on the T-61M cars only. But without all those earlier cars the T-61Ms probably would have never been made. And since I am covering other competing cars in the book it probably does make sense to cover other V8 monacos to some extent. Certainly Rodger Ward's monaco buick ties in nicely to the overall story because the conversion was done by Bob McKee who sold his transaxles to Shelby and built his Mk1 Chevette in '64. Anyway, yes... they probably should be covered.

Thanks, Chuck

#13 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 4,643 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 29 April 2006 - 15:08

Chuck the car that Jim Hall won the 1963 Daytona race with was CM/1/61. This was the ex Hap Sharp car. It didn't have fins. And Jim Hall ran this car at the last race held in Palm Springs where he won easily. This research was done by my friend Willem Oosthoek. I am sure he is right. It was a white car. At the Palm Springs race Jim Hall was running the car by himself and I asked him some questions I was 17 or 18 at the time. Mr Hall was very nice and answered the questions.

#14 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 15:38

Thanks Jerry. That's good to know.

Chuck

#15 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 15:54

So, extending Chuck's list back a bit:

1961 Cooper-Monaco Mk III
CM/1/61 Hap Sharp June 1961 (less engine) - Jim Hall by Jan 1963
CM/2/61 Roger Penske Aug 1961 (FPF) - Tim Mayer late 1962 (FPF), retained 1963
CM/3/61 Peter Berry Sep 1961 for Bruce McLaren (2.7 FPF) - Briggs Cunningham (3.5 Buick) 1962

1962 Cooper-Monaco Mk IV
CM/1/62 Briggs Cunningham Jan 1962 (2.8 Maserati)
CM/2/62 Van Housen Motors Apr 1962 (FPF)
CM/3/62 Alan Connell May 1962 (FPF)

Who was Van Housen Motors? And where did Jimmy Blumer's car come from?

Allen

#16 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 16:30

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Who was Van Housen Motors?

Helps if you spell it right. Von Housen Motors of Sacramento, CA was and is George Grinzewitsch. His car appears in SCCA racing in 1962 and 1963.

Allen

#17 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 4,643 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 29 April 2006 - 17:17

Here is some more info from Willem. McLaren 2.7 liter climax engined CM/4/62 was sold to Roger Penske after Monterey in 1962. Penske ran it at Nassau with chevy powerd and DNF's. In 1963 I believe it was raced at Monterey as the Mecom Special where it didn't do well. It had body modifications to it resembling the original Zerek Special. This car was sold to Sherman Decker. Mecom bought a second 61M for Penske and he raced this car at Nassau in 1963 again chevy powered. I believe it is the same car Penske raced to 2nd at Pensacola in 1964. It was painted white and I believe part of the Chaparral Team. This car is missing from your list. Also missing is the 61M that Roy Salvadori raced in the UK in 1964. It had a 5 liter Masarati engine in it.

#18 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 29 April 2006 - 17:34

Originally posted by Allen Brown
And where did Jimmy Blumer's car come from?

Must have been an earlier model - he raced it in 1960

#19 tam999

tam999
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 29 April 2006 - 17:54

Here's a look at Jack Brabham winning the 1961 L.A. Times GP in the de-finned Hap Sharp Cooper:

http://www.tamsoldra...tml#JackBrabham

And here's George Grinzewitsch in his 2-liter Cooper in 1961. He raced the car with Von Housen Motors sponsorship into 1963. In 1964 Bart Martin raced this car very successfully in Northern California with Chevy power as the "Grizzly Torque Special".

http://www.tamsoldra.....Other Coopers

Tam McPartland

Advertisement

#20 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 4,643 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 29 April 2006 - 21:33

CM/2/62 was sold to Bill Sturgis of Nevada and Graham Hill ran the car in the 1962 Riverside Grand Prix that year and also the Pacific Grand prix I believe. I also remember that Ernie Gravelle who was Chuck Parsons father in law. And had a car wrecking business in SeaSide which is near Monterey also had a Cooper Monaco his had fins. I think he put a chevy engine in his. This was around 1964. I may be wrong and it may have had a Buick in it but I think he later put a chevy in it. He worked on it with his son Ron. I think their business was called SeaSide Auto Wrecking.

#21 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 29 April 2006 - 21:54

You're the man Jerry, does your friend have any info on CM/2/63?

Chuck

#22 tam999

tam999
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 29 April 2006 - 23:46

IIRC the Gravelle car driven by Parsons was an ex-Cunningham Cooper-Buick. It MAY have later received a Chevy but I'm not sure.

Tam McPartland

#23 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 30 April 2006 - 10:38

Okay, I have a new theory about the fate of CM/2/63 that I'd like to propose to you guys.

Let's say W. Mitchell was Bill Mitchell of VP of design at GM. He may have ordered this car for development. They were working a couple of mid-engined projects, the Monza GT which was corvair based and the Grand Sport II which was a mid engined corvette prototype. CM/2/63 could have been used to analyze the competition or for testing ideas for these cars.

http://www.chaparralcars.com/2e.php (scroll down to the section on the Monza GT)

http://corvetteactio...types/gs2b.html

But also note that in both cases the use of a space frame was scrapped. The GSII had an aluminum monocoque.

What do you guys think?

Chuck

#24 Terry O'Neil

Terry O'Neil
  • Member

  • 81 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:15

Chuck,
The second picture that you posted (3 cars on the start line) was actually taken at Nassau It was the start of the 5 lap Texas Classic race , 7th December 1963.
Terry

#25 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:12

Ah, the "Texas" race was in Nassau? That explains a lot. Thank you very much.

Chuck

#26 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 01 May 2006 - 16:38

Legends Racing here in the UK have an EX G Hill Cooper Monaco that recently came from the States with either a Chevy or Buick fitted. Philip Walker has an ex USA Monaco that was buick Powered (with climax now as originally supplied to USA) Danny Wright is also re building a Buick powered Monaco also ex USA

#27 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 01 May 2006 - 16:58

We meet again, Mr Walker!

Any chassis numbers associated with those cars?

#28 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 03 May 2006 - 11:50

Allen I will letyou know

#29 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 03 May 2006 - 19:09

Originally posted by tam999
Here's a look at Jack Brabham winning the 1961 L.A. Times GP in the de-finned Hap Sharp Cooper:

http://www.tamsoldra...tml#JackBrabham

And here's George Grinzewitsch in his 2-liter Cooper in 1961. He raced the car with Von Housen Motors sponsorship into 1963. In 1964 Bart Martin raced this car very successfully in Northern California with Chevy power as the "Grizzly Torque Special".

http://www.tamsoldra.....Other Coopers

Tam McPartland

Hi Tam

I'm most interested to see mention of the "Grizzly Torque Special" in 1964. In 1966 and 1967, a "Grizzly Torque Special" appeared in formula racing driven by Bub Ehrlich and with Ford V8 power. It ran under the then brand new 3-litre Formula A category. Gary Horstkorta makes reference to it running in 1965 at Vaca Valley in Northern California so it's in the same region as Bart Martin's car. Could this possibly be the same car?

Allen

#30 tam999

tam999
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:40

Allen--

I don't remember a single-seater "Grizzly Torque". Bart Martin campaigned a front-engined Chevy Special in 1963 under that name, then in 1964 moved to the ex-Grinzewitsch Cooper. I have a photo of the Cooper in "Grizzly Torque" livery (with fins added!) but it's not on my website and I'll have to rummage through my archives to find it.

In 1965 Martin raced a Ford powered Brabham, and lost his life in the car during the event held on the parking lot of San Francisco's Candlestick Park. IIRC, the crash was caused by a structural failure. I don't know if this car was sponsored by "Grizzly Torque".

Tam

#31 Jerry Entin

Jerry Entin
  • Member

  • 4,643 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 04 May 2006 - 13:08

Tam the car Bart Martin was killed in was chassis number SC-1-64. It was the show car for the Earl Court Motor Show. It was purchased by Judy Kondratieff for Bart to drive. Bart had raced the Cooper with the chevy in it the year before. He was a very nice guy and sorely missed. Judy also raced Mini Coopers and was very good in them. She is now Mrs. Howden Ganley. And lives between England and Northern California.

#32 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 05 May 2006 - 11:49

Tam

I've email Irv Dickson about the Grizzly Torque Specials and he remembers building the 'A' car. I'll let you know what I discover.

Allen

#33 Ted Walker

Ted Walker
  • Member

  • 1,432 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 09 May 2006 - 07:06

Allen. The Danny Wright car is CM-2-61 It was the Berry car taken to USA for McLaren ,thensold to Cunningham and fitted with a Buick (which is how its being re built with) Philip Walkers is CM-2-62. Supplied to Alan Connell USA

#34 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 09 May 2006 - 12:23

That's great! I'm glad to hear a buick is going back in. Any chance Danny Wright would share some pictures with me of it all apart? I have done one interview with Augie Pabst and he said he drove that car quite a bit with Cunningham. Mr. Nye has the Berry car as CM/3/61?

Regarding Pre-T61M cars with V8 swaps I think I will focus on the Cunningham Cooper-Buick, Roger Ward's (leaf sprung) Cooper because Bob McKee did the swap, and the Zerex Special after V8 swap.

Does that sound like a good list to you guys or are there other significant ones? What car is the Bib Stillwell car?

Thanks, Chuck

#35 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 09 May 2006 - 12:45

The Stillwell (Australia) Monaco was originally the Keele Engineering car raced by S Moss
I'm away from my records at the moment, but Ray Bell may be able to respond before I do

#36 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,966 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 10 May 2006 - 08:59

You've said it all, have you not, David?

Other than a bit of detail about the engine swap. Stillwell bought a Scarab V8 from the Intercontinental car that raced at Sandown (pics are posted on a thread here... a search using 'scarab' and 'ellacott'will find them).

I think it was significant in that it was the first US-V8 powered sports car of any real significance to run in the sixties here. In doing that, it more or less paved the way to the Elfin 400s and Matichs etc that were to dominate our lap records for years.

#37 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 10 May 2006 - 10:37

Originally posted by Ray Bell
You've said it all, have you not, David?

I wasn't sure of the date the V8 went in, without checking

#38 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,966 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 11 May 2006 - 13:51

Oh yeah... likewise...

And I don't think there's anywhere I can check! Unless there's a Sports Car World among my measly collection from the right era.

But wouldn't we be right in saying that about mid-1963 would be close? Even though late '62 seems more logical (about 8 months after the Scarab ran here), I am clearly recalling seeing the car a couple of times with Climax power. And I only saw it at Warwick Farm... October '62, probably February '63, then it got the V8 and ran elsewhere before appearing at the Farm again. Maybe May '63?

#39 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 11 May 2006 - 13:59

I'll check sources when I get home
In the meantime, didn't the Scarab engine first go into Glass's BRM? That would have been late 1962, which would make the Monaco installation the following year
As I said, I'll check later

Advertisement

#40 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 53,966 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 11 May 2006 - 14:53

You're right, of course, I keep on forgetting that little link in the chain...

So maybe even as late as August '63? In which case my Racing Car News collection will cover the exact timing.

#41 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:58

UPDATE: A friend of mine who seems to know just about everyone figured out the mystery of CM/2/63, at least the beginning of it.

W. Mitchell is Wayne Mitchell and my friend talked to him. Wayne was actually ordering the car for a friend who didn't want his competition to know what he was up to. The real owner was Phil Smythe of Winnipeg.

Of course the next question is what happened to it then? Anyone recognize that name? I have not found him in any race results yet.

Thanks, Chuck

#42 Allen Brown

Allen Brown
  • Member

  • 4,885 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:33

Originally posted by Allen Brown right at the start of this thread!!
Could that be Wayne Mitchell? Sounds a bit early for him to be driving something so big but it's possible. Wayne drove FCs and FBs in the mid-1960s. He posts on 10 Tenths from time to time so he's easy to ask.

Allen

:cool:

#43 raceannouncer2003

raceannouncer2003
  • Member

  • 2,228 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 18 May 2006 - 05:44

It should be Phil Smyth. He was a Winnipeg veterinarian (sp?) who raced a Lotus 23 in the Canadian Championship in 1964. Don't remember hearing about him having a King Cobra. Wayne Mitchell lives in California now? Where did he live then?

Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada

#44 MGAdams

MGAdams
  • New Member

  • 25 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 18 May 2006 - 18:44

W. Mitchell is Wayne Mitchell and my friend talked to him. Wayne was actually ordering the car for a friend who didn't want his competition to know what he was up to. The real owner was Phil Smythe of Winnipeg.

Of course the next question is what happened to it then? Anyone recognize that name? I have not found him in any race results yet.


I posted what I found about Smyth in the CMSHG files section of the site. I find no connection with Dr. Smyth and a Cooper Monaco. I can only find two race meets in 1964 that included Smyth in his Lotus 23 ... nothing before or after.

http://sports.groups.....0and Gilbert/

There are also some off- topic photos there of the "Calliope" that was being mentioned on the CMSHG.

MGAdams

#45 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 18 May 2006 - 18:54

Thanks Mike this is all great stuff. I too haven't found any evidence he ever raced the monaco. I did try to call a P. Smyth of winnipeg but the nice lady that answered said she didn't know him. Oddly she was curious about him because they get a few calls looking for him each year. She said for years and years, and usually someone from the states!

Chuck

#46 Cynic

Cynic
  • Member

  • 158 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 28 September 2006 - 00:34

To add to the mix, this was listed as a Cooper-Monaco/Ford, raced by Fred Harrison at the SCCA National at an old airstrip at Selma, Alabama in August 1967.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#47 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:14

Thanks for the pictures of that car. I saw pictures of it just today in a letter to the Shelby Registrar. A fellow named Randy Hartigan wrote in in 1981 that he bought this car from Fred Harrison in '75. Harrison claimed it was a shelby team car. I don't think that is the case. It does appear to be a T-61M frame. The reason I say it's not a shelby car is because the '63 cars are well documented and the '64 cars all seemed to have gotten a large removable section added to the two oval tubes at the back so that that the engine and transaxle could be easily removed as a unit. This car doesn't have any of the stuff like that that the 4 '64 shelby cars had. Not that this proves much, it has the same size wheels front and back, which is typically seen on the '64 cars.

Just one guys opinion of course. I'll keep looking to see if I can figure it out. The rear spoiler is pretty distinctive, maybe that's a clue.

Chuck

#48 chuckbrandt

chuckbrandt
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 28 September 2006 - 02:27

I received Barry Brown's story of CM/2/63 today.

"CM/2/63 is the only original Monaco chassis that has survived intact. It appeared in Toronto in 1981, stored in a plastic bag -- an untouched, brand new rolling chassis, instruments, gas tanks, oil tank, radiator, McKee transaxle, seats -- ordered from Cooper without body or motor mounts. "

It's like a Cooper Monaco Miracle :)

Chuck

#49 Manfred Cubenoggin

Manfred Cubenoggin
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 28 September 2006 - 10:20

Hi, Chuck!

The nose coachwork on this car reminds me somewhat of a Chevette or McKee. I seem to recall seeing a pix of Dan Gerber driving a car with a very similar appearance. Up here in Canada, Peter Lerch drove a sports racer in...was it 1964 or 65?...with 289 Ford V-8 power, Webers and zoomies with again a very similar appearance on the nose. Seen a pix of it somewhere on the net recently. I never did find out the make and model of Peter's car, however. It was painted in that deep bronze that was in vogue for a while back then.

#50 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 8,346 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 28 September 2006 - 10:45

I haven't got involved in this thread thus far simply because my eye's been squarely set on another ball, but having just scanned through there's occasional mention to my 'having' one particular car identity down as one particular chassis serial number.

I'd just like to make it absolutely clear that in my Cooper cars book I didn't 'have' Monaco chassis numbers attributed to anybody. The surviving Cooper works chassis book was what 'had' those serial numbers attributed to those initial customers.

I thought at the time, and I still do, that the 1961-64 period Monacos were great looking bits of kit, although at the time (and since) I have also regarded them as being pretty agricultural. Having just had close-up involvement with the ex-Atkins/Roy Salvadori Monaco-Maserati V8 I can confirm that the only chassis serial it appears to carry is actually the Maserati number '151-010', relating to the engine rather than the original frame. This is simply because, like so many old, tried and trusted Cooper Car Co customers, Tommy would have bought merely a kit of parts from the Surbiton factory, which his own people then assembled into a running and raceable car.

Great piece of ongoing work though Chuck, Allen, everybody. It is important too.

DCN