96 replies to this topic

[chuckbrandt]

Doug,
I certainly hope I have never said anything to discredit or disrespect your work. I can thank noone but you for the meager knowledge of Cooper Cars that I retain. Your book is incredible. Your point is played out in the U.S. also where teams ordered spare chassis and spare suspension components all the time. That really makes tracking these cars difficult. We've resorted in many cases to recognizing certain modifications, gas tank configuration, and roll bar additions, and even unique mirror mounts to track cars. All I can say either "yeah that's probably a shelby car" "or no I don't think it is".

Manfred,
I should have posted that Randy Hartigan describes the car as having a fiberglass front end and the rest of the body work aluminum. When he bought it headlights had been added probably for street driving. But I know what car you are talking about. Tom Payne and Dan Gerber bought the McKee MK3 the "Fordette" from Bob Johnson. There is a funny story about it I got from Bob McKee, suffice to say it was wrecked and rebuilt twice, the last time with front end sheet metal borrowed from Dan Gurney's Lotus 19. Here is a picture. I wonder where it is now.

Chuck

[chuckbrandt]

Speaking of the Salvadori Cooper-Maserati, what do you learned gentlemen make of this Shelby invoice? Is it that Salvadori Cooper? Why would shelby be shipping it to FAV? How'd it get to the US in the first place. Is it's history well known? I assumed from the recent auction that it was. Maybe a different car?

Chuck

[Doug Nye]

Chuck, I'm never bothered by 'disrespect' nor by 'discredit' though 'dat credit' is always preferable. I just wanted to make it clear that the ascriptions made were by Cooper not me. The 'Salvadore' Cooper invoice from Shelby is fascinating. The date - 14 January 1965 - makes it too late for the Monaco-Maserati which was run by Tommy Atkins and Roy through 1964. Unless the car had gone to Shelby for some reason as a comparator between Maserati V8 and Ford V8? Doesn't seem very likely to me. Or were they attempting to ship a King Cobra across to the UK and claiming 'Salvadore' history as a foil to avoid Customs import duty?

That engine No 128 is nothing to do with Maserati so far as I know. Is it a Ford number, or perhaps the final digits of a Climax number???

As to reasons why, I wonder if we shall ever know?

DCN

[chuckbrandt]

I assumed it was a Ford 289 V8 and just a number the shop assigned to it. Ford engines don't generally have serial numbers. And whatever it was had a Colatti (37 and italian origin) and Webers (also italian origin).

You might be right in your theory. Interestingly Oscar Kovaleski has said they he bought a Salvadori Monaco in '65 too at the "Garage Sale".

I think even the Shelby people where confused about which car was which. And unfortunately a fair amount of our info is based on invoices like this.

I honestly would be surprised (given the dates the Salvadori car raced in Europe) that it was ever over here.

Chuck

[Peter Morley]

It's odd that they only give serial nos. for the engine and gearbox and not for the car, presumably the car had no obvious number on it - or were they expecting to only pay taxes on those items?

And why should something that valuable have no commercial value?

BTW If someone wants an unused (NOS) Colotti Type 37 I can help them!

[chuckbrandt]

Peter,
As Mr. Nye says, the Salvadori Cooper-Maserati appears to not have had a chassis number because it was bought as a kit of parts by Tommy Atkins and assembled in his shop.

As to the price, Shelby was almost entirely funded by Ford at this time, so a no cost transfer to a Ford Company entity would not surprise me. It undoubtedly saved them duties of some kind. And by '65 the king cobras were outdated and all sitting in the corner of Shelby's shop for sale with no buyers. What a difference a year makes in racing.

Would you please e-mail me the details of your Colotti? I'd love to be able to pass it on to one of the King Cobra guys. The lovely Lang Cooper is running one and the owner may be looking for spares. CM/1/63 is running the BMC/Huffaker and CM/6/64 is running the McKee.

Thanks, Chuck

chuck@chuckbrandt.com

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by chuckbrandt
Peter,
Would you please e-mail me the details of your Colotti? I'd love to be able to pass it on to one of the King Cobra guys. The lovely Lang Cooper is running one and the owner may be looking for spares. CM/1/63 is running the BMC/Huffaker and CM/6/64 is running the McKee.

Thanks, Chuck

Chuck

Have e-mailed you a photo and brief description of the box.
Can take more photos and note the serial no. etc during the week if you want.

Thanks
Peter

[Allen Brown]

Anyone know what was the "ex-Wintersteen" 327ci Cooper-Monaco-Chev that Oscar Kovaleski ran in 1965? It was described as "familiar" (CP&A 27/11/65 p3) but it isn't to me.

Allen

[David McKinney]

It would have been familiar to followers of 1964-65 USRRC rounds on the east coast
And no, I don't have a chassis number

[Doug Nye]

The actual Tommy Atkins/Roy Salvadori Cooper Monaco-Maserati was offered for sale by David Plumstead of Purley in 1966.

The following from the Bonhams Goodwood Revival Meeting auction Sale catalogue:

"In later years the Atkins Cooper-Maserati Monaco V8 passed into the ownership of enthusiast Toby St John Matthews before being acquired by Historic racer Chris Stewart. In the documentation file accompanying this Lot there is a copy letter dated January 7, 1980, from Mr Stewart to Peter Kaus in Germany, confirming details of their agreed sale of ‘Cooper Maserati Type 151/10 Ex Roy Salvadori – Tommy Atkins’.

"A contemporary copy FIA Historic Vehicle Identity Form is also included within this file, citing date of manufacture as ‘December 1963’ and ‘151-10’ as both the chassis and engine numbers. In fact this serial relates to the Maserati Tipo 151 power unit, not to the Cooper Monaco chassis. However, it was not at all uncommon for such valued Cooper customers as ‘Tommy’ Atkins simply to purchase an effective kit of parts from the factory’s Hollyfield Road stores, which he would then have assembled – as in this case – in his own premises by his own mechanics. The resultant car did not feature in the contemporary Cooper Car Company chassis register, nor did it need a formal chassis plate so long as it was not used on the public road (unlikely!) or shipped abroad. Therefore the adoption of the Maserati chassis/engine serial for this car is perfectly understandable – and acceptable - set against the standard motor racing practises of the period… Also featured in the file is a copy of a description of the new car published in the August 1964 issue of the American monthly magazine ‘Road & Track’.

"This magnificent ‘ultimate Cooper Monaco’ is offered here as preserved within its last long-term ownership for some 26 long years. It is equipped with the 5-litre Maserati 151 V8 engine, driving via a Colotti Type 37 five-speed transaxle. During its long period of museum display it has seen very little use and as offered here it will self-evidently require detail mechanical inspection and preparation before any serious attempt be made to run it in earnest."

Thank you very much, that will 7s 6d.

DCN

[raceannouncer2003]

Photo of Wintersteen in "Cooper T61 Monaco – Chevrolet V8" at Bridgehampton 1965 here:

http://www.racingspo...5-05-23-012.jpg

I seem to remember it green too?

One thing I found said that the Cooper-Chev that Frank Synter has (had?) was the ex-Hudson/Nickey car from '64 and was also ex-Wintersteen...but both Hudson and Wintersteen drove Cooper-Chevs at Meadowdale in '64 (?)

Vince H.

[Allen Brown]

Jerry has sent me a cutting from CP&A detailing when Kovaleski "totally demolished his Penske Cooper-Chevrolet Zerex 2 car" at Reading in April 1967. So if this is ex-Penske, ex-Wintersteen, was this CM/4/62, the ex-works/McLaren car Penske bought after the original single-seat Zerex was banned or is this the 63/64 Mecom/Penske car that appears to be missing from Cooper records?

Allen

[chuckbrandt]

I met with the son of the Nickey Chevrolet owner last weekend too and got a lot of information on the Nickey Chevrolet Cooper. It definitely isn't the Wintersteen car because they raced in the same races on a couple of occasions. I have a picture at home of the Kovaleski hillclimb car and it shows the big square radiator opening of the Wintersteen car so I'm more likely accept that connection.

The latest I've heard from Oscar Kovaleski's mechanic is that he bought 2 king cobras and an extra frame at Shelby's garage sale. He used parts from one of the King Cobras to fix up his hill climb car.


Chuck

[Ted Walker]

Doug I wonder if the Shelby invoice refers to the Climax car that Salvadori raced in the 63 season for Atkins ????

[Cynic]

This is the ex-Jack Hinkle-A. Tracy Bird CM/5/62 fitted with a Ferrari V12 at the Monterey Historics in 1988.

[RA Historian]

You are right in that the Wintersteen and Nickey Cooper-Chevs were not the same. I saw both of them race at Meadowdale in the 1964 August USRRC. The Wintersteen Cooper-Chev was green with yellow trim at that race, and when I saw it at Bridgehampton in the May, 1965 USRRC it was now predominately white.

I may be wrong about this, but I think that the Wintersteen car was ex-Penske/Mecom and went on to Oscar Koveleski. This car is different from the first Penske Cooper-Chev which he bought from Bruce McLaren after Bruce had run it at Riverside in Oct. 1962. Roger had a Durlite body crafted and it replaced that rather ungainly original Cooper body work with the open front fenders. I believe that car went on to Sherman Decker, who raced it with a Ford engine. I saw Decker win an SCCA race at Cumberland in May, 1965, one week before seeing Wintersteen drive his Cooper-Chev at Bridgehampton. So they are not the same car.

There was a Cooper-Chev at Road America at thier historic event in the late 80s or early 90s that was owned by John "Bat" Masterson. It did not race, but was on display in the paddock. It was painted in the Nickey colors, just as Hudson had raced it in 1964. Presumably the same car, but one never is quite sure. I believe that this car is now in the UK.

[raceannouncer2003]

John "Bat" Masterson ran a "1963 Cooper Monaco, 4800 cc, chassis number 63-03" at Monterey in 1988...he won his race...photo here...

http://img84.imagesh...oper2348xb2.jpg

Vince H.

[Ted Walker]

Keep up the good work chaps.This is a great topic.

[Allen Brown]

Any chance Wintersteen had two cars? One in 1964 and a different one in 1965? Both ex-Penske? I know it sounds unlikely but Wintersteen and Penske were (relatively speaking) near neighbours so maybe we can't completely discount it as a possibility.

Allen

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Any chance Wintersteen had two cars? One in 1964 and a different one in 1965? Both ex-Penske? I know it sounds unlikely but Wintersteen and Penske were (relatively speaking) near neighbours so maybe we can't completely discount it as a possibility.

Allen

I do not think so, but of course it is a possibility. I remember looking at his car in the paddock at Meadowdale in August, 1964, and thinking that it had a different rear on it from stock. I have read that the Koveleski car had a slightly different rear and that was the ex-Wintersteen car. My memory of the white car at Bridgehampton in 1965 corresponds with respect to the rear. Now, of course time plays tricks, but I suspect that Wintersteen's green car and white car were the same car.

There appears to have been two ex Penske Coopers, not counting the Xerex. The rebodied car went to Sherman Decker, and he was running it contempaneously with Wintersteen's car. So assuming that George's was the second Penske car, it seems rather unlikely that he had both of them.

Of course, I may be wrong.......

[Allen Brown]

OK, so if we put to one side CP&A's description of Koveleski's car as "ex-Wintersteen" and assume, for now, that they had made a mistake, are these the histories?

CM/4/62: works/McLaren [Climax] 1962 – Mecom/Penske [Climax] 1962; rebodied for 1963 and fitted with Chev - Greenwich Autos/Sherman Decker USRRC 1964 [Ford]; also USRRC early 1965 – Oscar Koveleski 1965-67; wrecked April 1967.

The mystery Mecom car: Mecom/Penske [Chev] Nassau 1963 – George Wintersteen USRRC 1964-1965 ...

Allen

[chuckbrandt]

I will do my best to get to the bottom of this issue. I agree with those that have said there is likely another Penske Monaco in '63. I've talked to the Penske organization and they don't have any archives of that period. But I do have an agreement to an interview with John Mecom so maybe he remembers.

Chuck

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by tam999
... And here's George Grinzewitsch in his 2-liter Cooper in 1961. He raced the car with Von Housen Motors sponsorship into 1963. In 1964 Bart Martin raced this car very successfully in Northern California with Chevy power as the "Grizzly Torque Special".

http://www.tamsoldra.....Other Coopers

Tam McPartland

And - while looking for early Formula B results - I spotted Robs Lamplough at USRRC Riverside 2 May 1965 "driving the ex-Bart Martin Cooper". It appears in the results as a Cooper-Chev. Hayes also drove the Lang Cooper in that race. On the same weekend, George Wintersteen (Cooper-Chev) and Sherman Decker (Cooper-Ford) were fighting it out at Vineland.

In the same issue of CP&A (5 Jun 1965), Lew Spencer of Hi-Performance Motors Inc is advertising the "ex-Parnelli Jones River side winner" Cooper-Ford plus anywhere between one and four disassembled Cooper-Fords; and J. T. Bunch of New Canaan, CT, was advertising a Cooper-Ford "ex-Mecom Monaco with Special Cobra 289 holds track record at Thompson and unofficial record at Lime Rock".

Blimey - popular those Cooper-Monacos, weren't they!

Allen

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Found it!

Reference my reference back in post #49 of this thread:

At the CMSHG in the 'photos' section:

Look under 'A Cooper Ford'; pix 'cpr' by 'mgadams'.

It's the car I refered to driven by Peter Lerch running alongside Heimrath on their way to T1 at Mosport.

I'll try to upload it a moment...stand by...

Here you go. Note the front end treatment. Compare with that shown in post #46.



A couple of seconds after hitting the 'post' button, the thought occured that if this IS 1965, the Comstock KC may be driven by Walt MacKay. Walt had a few drives in that car in that year.

[T54]

John "Bat" Masterson ran a "1963 Cooper Monaco, 4800 cc, chassis number 63-03" at Monterey in 1988...he won his race...photo here...

That car was sold a few years back. When Masterson had it, it had a fiberglass body and was painted in the Nickey-Chevrolet colors.
Actually I think I was in that race too if I recall correctly. :

[chuckbrandt]

I think it probably was CM/4/63 which was the Nickey Chevrolet car. At least that's the car I have Masterson associated with. CM/3/63 is the second Shelby car.

Chuck

[ovfi]

Hi
I am a new member, have found this bulletin board when searching for information on the Penske's Cooper-Chevy, the one called Zerex-2.
Well, in my search I found this link with photos of Sherman Decker's Cooper, Cumberland '65

http://www.nationalr...&sort=1&cat=549

These photos shows the same front end as it was in the Zerex-2, with minor modifications, but the rear section was changed for a standard Cooper. I have a photo of the Zerex-2 on the corkscrew in 1963 Monterey GP, scanned from January '63 Sports Car Graphic's issue, but I don't know if I can post it because of copyright violation... Anyway, it's easy to see that Zerex-2 and Sherman's Cooper share the same front end and the same roll bar... only differing in the rear section, so the car is the same.

Finally, the main reason I made this post, besides contribute to the forum, was to ask if anybody has a photo of the Zerex-2 rear section using the configuration as it ran Monterey '63.

Thanks to all,

[ovfi]

Chuck

After seeing Wintersteen's 1965 Cooper, we can observe that the rear brake air intakes are very similar to that used on the Zerex-2, much bigger than the standard rear air intakes used on Cooper Monacos.

It's possible that Mecom/Penske have bought a second Cooper frame to use with the 4/62 body, this could explain the second Mecom Cooper... when they sold the first car to Sherman Decker it was fitted with the standard rear section, and the second car was sold with the modified Zerex-2 rear section.

The Zerex-2 was raced at Monterey october 20, and the Mecom-Cooper was at Nassau december 1st, only 6 weeks apart...

The "Texas Special 5 lap race" photo you posted, could have been raced at Nassau '63, there was a race with this name there, as reported on Sports Car Graphic, and the three cars have the same numbers as in the Nassau races. If you need, I can do a scan of the complete report for your information, but I don't know if I can post it here...


Oscar

[chuckbrandt]

Hi Oscar,
I like your theory a lot. All the teams certainly swapped parts around.

Chuck

[Allen Brown]

More on CM/2/62: CP&A (19 Mar 1966 pA) says Bob Holder of Portland will drive the ex-Grizzly Torque spl Cooper-Chev raced by the late Bart Martin.

Allen

[tam999]

I looked through some old photos tonight and found two that are pertinent to this thread. One shows the ex-Bart Martin Cooper-Chevy, the other shows John "Bat" Masterson in his Cooper-Chevy. Both photos were taken at Sears Point (Now Infineon) Raceway sometime in the 1980s. I don't recall who drove the ex-Martin car.





Tam McPartland

[chuckbrandt]

Thanks Tam, these are great research photos! So if these were from the 80s, where is the Grizzly Torque Special now?

Chuck

[tam999]

Chuck--

I talked to the driver (????) of the "Grizzly Torque" Cooper-Chevy at the Sears Point event. He was a friend & associate of Bart Martin and had restored the car as a tribute to the late driver. It wouldn't surprise me if he still had the car.

I don't remember the year of the race (late 80s) and of course I don't have a program.

Tam

[raceannouncer2003]

The 1988 Monterey program lists:

78 1959 Cooper Monaco 5400 cc CM-9-59 Jim Herlinger Palo Alto, California

He's the guy who races the Baldwin Special now, right? I talked to him at Teretonga in New Zealand in February. I believe he has since had a heart operation. The 2005 Monterey program listed him as being from Portola Valley, California. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

Vince H.

[Erik330]

That is indeed Jim Herlinger who is a good friend. He has recovered from his heart surgery and would be happy to talk to you about the car. PM me for phone and email. He sold the car some years ago.

CM-2-62 is listed as first being owned by Bill Sturgis. Mr. Sturgis was my late stepmother's first husband. I believe that he is still alive and living in Gardnerville, NV.

[chuckbrandt]

Originally posted by Cynic
To add to the mix, this was listed as a Cooper-Monaco/Ford, raced by Fred Harrison at the SCCA National at an old airstrip at Selma, Alabama in August 1967.

I take back what I said about this car, I think it might be CM/3/63. The holes in the windscreen are still there.

Chuck

[S&M Minis]

While sorting slides I found a few of what I believe is Oscar Koveleski's Cooper, and this seemed like the best thread to post them on. The first two are from the 1966 Cumberland Nationals. (The slides are marked May 66 and it's definitely Cumberland.) I can't find the entry list for this race at the moment, but on a high-res scan there is what appears to be an Auto World logo to the left of the number on the nose. Could that be Oscar in the hat? I originally didn't think this was the Koveleski car since he traditionally used #54.




The third is from the 1967 Watkins Glen USRRC with the Cooper, a 906 and a GT 40. Koveleski's Cooper, Eppie Weitzes' Comstock GT 40 and several 906s are on the entry list.




Between the two event the car seems to have gained a large plexi spoiler.

The Koveleski Cooper(s) are discussed earlier in this thread.

[raceannouncer2003]

Originally posted by Manfred Cubenoggin


A couple of seconds after hitting the 'post' button, the thought occured that if this IS 1965, the Comstock KC may be driven by Walt MacKay. Walt had a few drives in that car in that year.

This photo is from the June 19, 1965 BEMC Spring Trophy races at Mosport. I believe it is the front of the Comstock King Cobra driven by Walt MacKay.



Photo by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks.

Vince H.

[chuckbrandt]

Nice picture Vince!

Definitely one of those I wish I could pan left and right. Could that be Heimrath's McLaren Mk 1A to the left?

Thanks, Chuck

[raceannouncer2003]

Yes, I think it is Heimrath's McLaren to the left. He won easily that weekend.

Vince H.

[FORGESHOW]

Keep an eye on www.oldcarsweekly.com they are releasing races from 1964 -65? Riverside G. P. and I believe Washington with all those cars.It's never been seen before.Cobras,Lotus,Vettes just about everything that raced at Riverside that year.

Tim Lopata
president
www.forgemusclecarshow.com

[Michael Oliver]

Keep an eye on www.oldcarsweekly.com they are releasing races from 1964 -65? Riverside G. P. and I believe Washington with all those cars.It's never been seen before.Cobras,Lotus,Vettes just about everything that raced at Riverside that year.

Tim Lopata
president
www.forgemusclecarshow.com

Sounds interesting! What exactly are they going to be releasing - photos or videos?

Michael

[davids]

I have just completed the restoration of CM 2 62, the Sturgis car driven by Graham Hill at Monterey. Want more info or picture email me at dspringett@msn.com

David Springett

[FORGESHOW]

Check out the other 3 or 4 videos she posted.

[jwaterhouse71]

I'm hoping someone here can help me. As some of you know, I am now embarking on writing a book about the Cooper Monaco Type 61M cars (those intended for V8 Swaps). I have at least some information about each of the 15 cars except for one. CM/2/63 was sold to W. Mitchell in February of '63 less engine and gearbox. That's all I know. There is also some indication that Jim Hall had a white T-61M monaco at Daytona USRRC Feb, 3 1963. Can anyone get me any further down the trail? Thanks, Chuck Brandt

P.S. In case you are interested here is some of what I have on the other cars. Please let me know of any problems here.

CM/4/62 Bruce McLaren's prototype T-61M, sold to Roger Penske.
CM/5/62 Jack Hinkle's car eventually sold to Tracy Bird who installed ferrari v12 power.
CM/1/63 Shelby King Cobra driven by Dave MacDonald eventually sold to Charles Cox.
CM/2/63 ????
CM/3/63 Shelby King Cobra Bob Holbert originally drove this one.
CM/4/63 Nicky Chevrolet - this may also have become George Wintersteens?
CM/5/63 Comstock's first car with larger radiator opening, wrecked by Eppie Wietz and scrapped.
CM/6/63 Second Comstock Car, driven by Ludwig Heimrath and also Walt McKay. Sold to Nat Adams
CM/1/64 Lang Cooper wrecked by Bob Holbert, rebuilt with a new frame and body designed by Pete Brock
CM/2/64 John Mecom used it as the basis of the Hussein 1.
CM/3/64 A Cooper Chevy with some racing history, currently for sale in California.
CM/4/64 Shelby King Cobra raced twice.
CM/5/64 Shelby King Cobra (this car and CM/6/64 had a big spoiler and Cortina tail lights)
CM/6/64 Shelby King Cobra - Parnelli Jones car
Barry Brown Car, this car was built from a spare frame in the 80s. Currently vintage racing in europe.

Does anyone know the whereabouts of CM/4/62?

[rsm97]

But then you might get concerned by the following picture. It's at a "Texas Special 5 lap race" probably at Green Valley. Penske won driving the cooper-chevy #36. It's clearly towards the end of '63 as both of the king cobras are in their configuration (bundle of snakes exhaust) that they ran at Nassau. So which car is this? New bodywork on CM/4/62?



Chuck

EDITED OCT 26

Hello Chuck, and all

I'm probably a couple yrs late to the discussion but i am able to add to it and hopefully clear up some of the confusion - not so much about Roger's Monoco but specifically the Shelby Monocos (King Cobras). I am Dave MacDonald's son Rich and last year i had a similar conversation with the current owner of CM/1/63. After sifting through several Dave Friedman photos it became evident that the #97 car my father drove in the Texas Classic race at Nassau '63 was CM/1/63. There are a number of Nassau photos that show the Huffaker transaxle jutting out the back of the #97 "King Cobra" and according to chief mechanic Wally Peat, my father always ran CM/1/63 up until CM/1/64 was finished. (He did run CM/3/63 at Kent in '64 but only because Holbert totalled CM/1/64 trying to qualify it for my father who was at Indy)

I was also able to identify two additional wins for CM/1/63 - much to the delight of the current owner My father drove it to victory in the USRRC Championships at Augusta on March 1, 1964 (as #97) and Craig Lang won the 1963 Hawaiian Grand Prix driving CM/1/63. Friedman's photos show that Shelby American did do some body swapping back in the day so just going by car numbers alone would be inaccurate. The Huffaker is key. Since my father ran CM/1/63 as #98 at Kent in '63 - the LA Times GP in '63 and the Monterey Pacific GP in '63, most simply thought he and Bob Holbert had traded King Cobras at Nassau and Augusta.

Anyway, let me apologize now for being to lazy to upload the photos to image shack ... it's just much easier to send you to my father's tribute site where you can view them there.
http://www.davemacdo...branassauSD.htm - click on the "Texas Classic"

Sincerely,

Rich

Edited by rsm97, 26 October 2012 - 23:16.

[Hse289]

Hi Rich,
i have visited your website about your father many times. Its really good, im a fan of him and the King Cobra`s.