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European Grand Prix Donington 1993


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#1 James Murray

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 12:54

We all know this was one of Senna's all time greatest drives but my query is whether the cars had traction control in those days as I can't remember. A friend insists that Senna's car was using it and so were the Williams, but Schumacher in the Bennetton was without it.

Was it also the case that Bennetton had the works Cosworth engines that year and Mclaren the customer spec version.

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#2 Darren Galpin

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 13:19

Senna did have traction control - that's why he didn't rate it as one of his best drives, and rated his '85 Estoril win higher.

#3 James Murray

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 13:36

But did the others have it also particularly Schumacher as a friend is adamant that Schu would have been up there with him (moot point) if he had it as well.

#4 Mohican

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 13:53

I think that you can be well certain that all front runners had traction control.

Benetton was the "works" Ford team back then, whereas McLaren had a customer Ford engine in '93. Your friend has his work cut out to convince anybody that Schumacher would have beaten Senna that day.

#5 dolomite

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 18:01

I believe your friend is correct, IIRC Benetton did not have TC until later that season.
The TC on Senna's car was McLaren's own in-house system, not provided by Ford.

#6 Twin Window

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 18:05

Originally posted by James Murray

European Grand Prix Donnington 1993

:mad:

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 20:43

Originally posted by Twin Window
:mad:

Well you're the moderator .... if you can't change it, who can? :p

#8 David Beard

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 20:50

Originally posted by dolomite
I believe your friend is correct, IIRC Benetton did not have TC until later that season.
The TC on Senna's car was McLaren's own in-house system, not provided by Ford.


How much help is/was traction control downhill, through Donnnington's Cramer Curves?

#9 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 20:55

The only time I've gone to Donington approaching from the North, we passed a road sign that said 'Donnington'. Having previously assured my girlfriend that the correct spelling was 'Donington', she naturally assumed that as usual I didn't know what I was talking about, as there it was on the sign - 'Donnington'. Luckily for me all the rest of the signs we passed had it spelled correctly.

#10 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 20:04

Originally posted by James Murray
Was it also the case that Bennetton had the works Cosworth engines that year and Mclaren the customer spec version.



Yes Benetton had works the Cosworth, but the difference wasn't all that big in those days.

IIRC the McLaren version wasn't strictly "a customer version" either, I believe they used their own management system (TAG Electronics) for their engine.

#11 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 22:12

Recently I saw the race described as being held in a torrential downpour, but as I remember it (from the cosines of my in-house sofa) it rained only intermittently. This led to 6-7-8 tire changes for some, while Senna gambled with a combination of traction control (only learned/forgot about that untill now) and talent and only visited pitlane 2 or 3 times. But, how much did it rain?

After years of Honda-power and backing, McLaren was on a downhill slide in 1993, which only worsened in the uncoming years, but that was still the future in 1993. Only customer Ford Cosworth-engines and it felt. Besides, Senna had started to feel the pressure of a gifted young Michael Schumacher in the factory backed Benetton-Ford's. Knowing that Senna/McLaren was up against the wall and still winning in convincing style at Donington made my day watching it. In my view - hats off to anybody who relish in the wet and actually wins.

Senna did so in Portugal 1985, which is apparently his own number one win - and I don't blame him, but looking through the glasses of history, Donington '93 was something else. I think the timespan makes all the difference. Hearing and reading about Senna's exploits at Toleman during 1984 (not much TV coverage around these parts of the world then), it was obvious Senna would win a Grand Prix sooner or later. A still capabel Lotus-Renault team and heavy rain was the ticket in only the second race of the combo - impressive in itself. This was early in his GP career, while at Donington '93, I for the first time got the impression that Senna was about to become oldschoole thanks to Michael Schumacher.

Untill then only Jean Alesi had come anything close to challenge him as the latest star. Phoenix, USA, 1990 and Alesi actually passed the master in his Tyrrell-Ford Cosworth, and later finished second to Senna.

Jesper - Senna, one of the great three, fan (Sainz/Earnhardt being the others)

#12 LB

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 06:21

Originally posted by David Beard


How much help is/was traction control downhill, through Donnnington's Cramer Curves?


I know the Donnnington was a joke, however I'm not sure Cramer was. It's Craner curves.

As for the question I have no idea.

Jesper, from memory, the weather would best be described as changeable, as in it could not make up its mind wether to rain or not. It was certainly cold and damp and started in the wet. I can remember laps where people were coming in for slicks at the same time as others were coming in for wets

http://forix.autospo...r=19930003&c=17 pitstop list

Herbert only stopped once on his way to 4th (lap 10)
Prost pitted 7 times (laps 19 22 33 38 48 53 69)
Hill stopped 6 times (laps 17 24 34 41 50 68)
Senna a mere 5 (18 28 34 57 66) 4 really 57 was a drive through that had the fastest lap of the race
Barrichello on his way to what should have been a podium came in 6 times( on 18 28 35 38 55 and 56!)

Also on the first lap it should be noted Senna went from 4th to first, well 5th as Wendlinger got him on the start
Barrichello went from 12th to 4th aided by Andretti and Wendlinger crashing at Goddards and Lehto pitting though I believe he passed him anyway.
and Barbazza in a Minardi went from 20th to 12th.

Mind you, Senna ran out of cars to pass

#13 e34fanatic

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 07:56

My recollection from that period is that, Senna indeed had TC, but Schuey had to go without TC until Monaco. It was down to Cosworth, because they thought that TC systyem would risk engine reliability. McLaren had their own TagHeuer system and customer engine, so they carried their own risk. I´m not certain, if Schuey could have stayed with Senna even with TC on that day, but year earlier he had no problems destroying Senna in rainy Spanish GP without TC system.

#14 David Beard

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 10:13

Originally posted by LB


I know the Donnnington was a joke, however I'm not sure Cramer was. It's Craner curves.


You are quite correct. :blush:
..but it's interesting to note how many people you find making the same mistake, if you Google!

#15 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 13:40

Or is it Gooogled?

#16 ensign14

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 13:47

Originally posted by Tim Murray
The only time I've gone to Donington approaching from the North, we passed a road sign that said 'Donnington'. Having previously assured my girlfriend that the correct spelling was 'Donington', she naturally assumed that as usual I didn't know what I was talking about, as there it was on the sign - 'Donnington'. Luckily for me all the rest of the signs we passed had it spelled correctly.

For some reason there is a high level of illiteracy in the road signs in the East Midlands area. There is one pointing to "kingston" [sic] and another one in Nottingham which has the distance before the place name (IIRC it says "2 Reddington", which could be textspeak, but the other side says "Reddington 2".

Given that mistakes on road signs are as rare as hen's teeth and mainly concern odd fonts, this is an unusual concentration of balls-ups.

And I know I'm being v cruel and hypocritical in saying this being only vaguely bilingual, but Jesper's "cosines" for "cushions" made me smile.

#17 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 17:18

Originally posted by ensign14

And I know I'm being v cruel and hypocritical in saying this being only vaguely bilingual, but Jesper's "cosines" for "cushions" made me smile.


Ah, so that's why the "Check spelling" didn't work! :blush: :p now, wait a minute. I did mean cosines or is it cosiness - no cushions on my sofa. But still a memorable race.

Best regards
Jesper