19 replies to this topic

[Fiorentina 1]

Eventhough the team is named Renault, shouldn't it's history include Benetton and Toleman instead of 1977 to 1985 Renault? What happens if it becomes "Lotus" in 2017?

[LB]

I don't think there is a defacto answer to that.

In the same vein is Honda really Tyrrell?

I actually wonder if there is anyone still working at Renault that used to be employed by Toleman its certainly of that lineage. I suspect there are people working at Renault that worked there in 1985 but probably not on the F1 side.

I would say both really though for stats purposes I would have Renault as a manufacturer from 1977-1985 then 2002-now ( and 1906 -1909 was it?), it's afterall the same company. Then Benetton from 1986-2001 even though Renault took over in 2001 they didn't change the name til 2002.

However, thats just my opinion. The experts can chime in now

[Chris Bloom]

No the present Ferrari team is ex-Benetton;)

[jgm]

I should think that the only teams in F1 at present which have a 'genuine' identity, as opposed to a convenient marketing label, are Ferrari and Williams-Cosworth.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by LB

I actually wonder if there is anyone still working at Renault that used to be employed by Toleman

Pat Symonds for one; I first met him when he was with their pre-GP F2 team. And he's never left and come back, either.

[LB]

Originally posted by jgm
I should think that the only teams in F1 at present which have a 'genuine' identity, as opposed to a convenient marketing label, are Ferrari and Williams-Cosworth.

Toyota. They were built from scratch.

TW Symonds left and came back in 1991 when he went to Reynards stillborn F1 effort.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by LB

TW Symonds left and came back in 1991 when he went to Reynards stillborn F1 effort.

Oh, ok. Didn't realise that.

[Mohican]

McLaren have been one & the same team since the original McLaren team and Project Four merged in 1981. Not bad going - at least as good as Williams.

[John B]

I was wondering the same thing and there was a brief discussion several years ago:
http://forums.atlasf... record keeping

Since then I've heard media taking the Renault side of the question - when Alonso won his 10th GPthey were talking about his 'breaking Prost's record for wins by a Renault driver.'

And if you want to really muck things up, what about the years when the Benetton team was powered by Renault?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by LB


In the same vein is Honda really Tyrrell?

I would say there's almost no link. They bought a piece of paper and fired all the staff.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by jgm
I should think that the only teams in F1 at present which have a 'genuine' identity, as opposed to a convenient marketing label, are Ferrari and Williams-Cosworth.

So that will be Ferrari the team owned by FIAT? Now that is badge engineering!

[ianselva]

There are cetainly one or two who have been there since the Toleman days , but I don't think on the car side there is anyone from the old Renault F1 days but there may be some at Viry where they make the engines. It probably has more to do with the fact that a lquite a number of guys change teams each season and that applies to all teams.

[2F-001]

Isn't that a wee bit harsh on Ferrari? "Badge engineering" would surely be if they's bought Ferrari and changed the name to FIAT. In this case the ownership changed somewhere further up the food chain, with the identity, something of the ethos and image, presumably some of the people... and the badge, kept.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mohican
McLaren have been one & the same team since the original McLaren team and Project Four merged in 1981. Not bad going - at least as good as Williams.

I really think of that as a 'reverse takeover' though - not much of McLaren survived.

[Don Speekingleesh]

Originally posted by LB

In the same vein is Honda really Tyrrell?

I thought BAR bought Tyrrell for their entry, but kept nobody on. If any Tyrrell staff wanted a job they had to interview like everyone else.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Don Speekingleesh


I thought BAR bought Tyrrell for their entry, but kept nobody on. If any Tyrrell staff wanted a job they had to interview like everyone else.

I heard that about four Tyrrell staff ended up with the new team - which is probably fewer than would've joined had they just trawled for new staff in the back of Autosport...

[Cavalier53]

Eventhough the team is named Renault, shouldn't it's history include Benetton and Toleman instead of 1977 to 1985 Renault? What happens if it becomes "Lotus" in 2017?

Should this thread be moved to RC?

[Ross Stonefeld]

The opening post is fantastic in hindsight

[zakeriath]

Its more than a fantastic opening post, its almost incredible, now about those lottery numbers.

[ianselva]

[The late Bill Miller had been there since the Toleman days in Witney , I believe he was the logest serving staff member