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McLaren M6GT and M6Bs


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#1 Duncan Fox

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 00:44

Can any TNF folk help me with some answers to several questions I have pertaining to the movements and uses of several M6 and M12 Mclaren chassis . Published info of the day contradicts itself some say 4 were built others 3. Id like to get to the bottom of this once and for all.
Firstly, David Proffit used what was generally accepted as the prototype, in several races as a coupe. It was then shown at a German show in spyder form with M12 bodywork. Was this the same car? And does anyone know what happened to it after the show?I recall reading somewhere it had been crashed and rebuilt ,but when? He is shown in Trojan records as having ordered an M6B in early? 69 but this order is shown as cancelled and Oscar Kovelski appears to have taken the order over, as this is certainly the same serial#(50-17) as his was .The confusing part is that one of the surviving coupes today bears that same number albeit with a GT suffix. It is however not an M6 tub but a virgin original M12 type with all the correct fuelbag battery cavity/ diaphrams in place. This car was delivered to the customer in May 72. Many people say this is the same car as Proffits .I’m not so sure.

The M6GT chassis that appeared at the London Racing car show on the McLaren stand alongside Dennys M8A and the prototype Formula A car, ; Which car did that become? It wasn’t Bruces so did it become the car that went to the US as a sales model and wound up with Ted Peterson? At this point I have mentioned all 3 currently known coupes.But was it 4????

Another English chassis mingles with this story. John Woolfs M6B, again a late delivery I have photos of it at its first race at Silverstone April 14 where he spun off. I think it had a B/B Chev in it .Was this correct? Did he race it again after this before his untimely death at LeMans?. I need to date a photo of the Trojan Works as the Woolf car appears in this shot with prototype coupe rear bodywork ,but with a small block chev. I would like to clarify this cars history also , as John Woolf Racing advise me that this is the car that Dave Finnagin has , which is what I understood, but there is a 2nd claimant for this no (50-16) in G.B.

Any histories on British chassis would be appreciated. Whose was the Malcome Clube car? Where did the Scraggs car go? And which car is the 2nd claimant for 50-16 ?. Thanks Guys in advance.

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 06:06

From my own notes, which even I am not confident about
However, they might throw something helpful into the mix
There are eight entries below, which should not be taken to mean there were or are that many M6GTs...

1
Bruce’s personal car, based on an M6B. C/no M6GT-1 (though I have also seen as BMRGT1). Was in MoTaT in the 1970s, later went to the US. My last definiite record of what I believe is this car was when Doug Mockett was offering it for sale in 1989

2
appeared in some races 1969 and/or 1970. Number unknown

3
David Prophet’s car, 5017. Reportedly with Ricardo Revi 2003

4
Promotional car built by Trojan 1970. C/no GT1959E. To Kirk F White in the US then various other US owners. With Roger Pitts 2004

5
Allegedly built from M6B 5005 (except that this still exists elsewhere). The GT was offered at auction by Coys in 1996, having alledgedly twice appeared in Supersports races at the Nürburgring in the 1980s

6
C/no 027 (5027?) reportedly built in 1968, offered for sale by Poulain le Fur in Paris 30/03/98. Same as (2) above?

7
C/no 86-01. Replica built by Barry Crowe and John Collins. Offered at auction by Brooks at Quail Lodge 2001

8
Replica built by Bill Kasmer, subsequently restored to spider configuration

#3 ray b

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 20:00

I have heard that a number of M6GT bodys were made
perhaps as spares or to qualify as GT class production totals?

at a coconut grove yard sale I incountered a car in about 1990
that the owner claimed it was a original and authenic M6GT body
saddly it was on a VW powered pan :rolleyes:
but priced at $25,000. :eek:
the car was well done and looked good
but priced ten times the value of the common VW rebody at the time
I told the owner at that price I would rather have a fake with a V8

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 21:31

I always understand that - as Dave says - Bruce's personal M6GT and David Prophet's were entirely separate entities. Harold Drinkwater in Send, Surrey - close by the former Connaught works - did his bit by building an M6GT lookalike 'supercar' for a German customer, and maybe produced more than one. There was an apparently M12-chassised car with M6GT bodywork in Peter Kaus's Rosso Bianco Collection at Aschaffenburg before its recent sale and dissolution.

DCN

#5 Duncan Fox

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 23:22

Thanks David and Doug ,it does seems quite clear to us all that there are 3 genuine cars in existance today. a. Bruces Trojan built ,Works finished car s/noBMR6GT-1

b. Trojan built evaluation car with Roger Pitts s/noGT1969E

c. Trojan built car delivered to Andre Fournier May 72

The last car was delivered way out of sequence , its this one I'm mainly intereseted in. I had always understood it to have been the Proffit car but have doubts now a little more info has surfaced. A story done on the car in 1973 reported the Proffit cars whereabouts "unknown".

Notes I have from Pete Stowe show a Bill Bradley/ David Proffit connection1970-7 attached to the "prototype" M6GT presumably as co drivers in a long distance race. Those same notes also show it converted to M12 open specs 1969

I would like to clarify those period notes and see if indeed the Fournier car was the Proffit car refurbished, as I originally understood. The tag attached to the car says M6--GT 0--17 its not 100% readable.

Eoin also quotes "only 4 GTs were built" I need to know the Proffit history.

The Peter Kause car is a rebodied M12 the ex George Eaton car S/No 60-06

David your #5 is the Aylwood M6 that Leonard Janke had. Ive seen the rebuilt car , the transaxle s/no(LG 600-71) matches the Trojan Invoice. The coupe has to be suspect.

Your #6 would be interesting except with only 15 M6B's built #26 would be a worry!! but I'll follow it up
I can only think of one other coupe built later with a period correct chassis This is owned by Craig Pence .This was another Leonard Janke car built in period as a M8E look alike using ex Team bodywork purchased from Lothar Motchenbacher

Id have to say all the others are replicas , and some of them are really well built.

#6 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 00:28

Originally posted by David McKinney
From my own notes, which even I am not confident about
However, they might throw something helpful into the mix
There are eight entries below, which should not be taken to mean there were or are that many M6GTs...

1
Bruce’s personal car, based on an M6B. C/no M6GT-1 (though I have also seen as BMRGT1). Was in MoTaT in the 1970s, later went to the US. My last definiite record of what I believe is this car was when Doug Mockett was offering it for sale in 1989


A fella in Auckland NZ owned an M6....I think it may have been a replica (but you never know). If the one from the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland has definately gone stateside then that will rule out him once owning Bruce's car. I will try and get some more info.

#7 Doug Nye

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 18:17

Duncan - please - David Prophet - NOT 'Proffit'.

#8 Duncan Fox

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 20:51

Doug ,I stand corrected funny how you miss the obvious. Thanks.

#9 Pete Stowe

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 17:21

Originally posted by Duncan Fox
Notes I have from Pete Stowe show a Bill Bradley/ David Proffit connection1970-7 attached to the "prototype" M6GT presumably as co drivers in a long distance race. Those same notes also show it converted to M12 open specs 1969

I would like to clarify those period notes and see if indeed the Fournier car was the Proffit car refurbished, as I originally understood. The tag attached to the car says M6--GT 0--17 its not 100% readable.

Duncan, my notes would have been derived from comments in Autosport or Motoring News. When I get a few moments I'll see if I can find the original references.

#10 Duncan Fox

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 21:17

Thanks Pete, those notes of yours have been a great help, I refer to them regularly. Where I have made alterations and identified car movements would you like me to update you with these?

#11 Pete Stowe

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 15:34

Duncan, Thanks, but I’m no longer trying to keep track of those records – too busy on other stuff - I’m quite happy to let others keep up the records and just see the end result. :D

I think my original notes were mainly made from comments in Motoring News at the time, so I’ve now done a quick check through old Autosports 69-72 and found corroborating comments.

These mainly concern two cars:
a) David Prophet’s ‘racing’ M6GT, which he acquired in March 1969, converted to M12 spec in September 1969, and sold to Bill Bradley in March 1970. Timewise this could also be the chassis exhibited at Olympia in Jan 1969 but I found no comment that specifically suggests that.
b) Bruce’s ‘road’ M6GT prototype, which appeared in February 1970.


The following comments indicate the timeline:

8-18 Jan 1969 Racing Car Show, Olympia, London.
Exhibit “The new M6GT, built by Trojans , is awaiting homologation in Group 4. It is in chassis form, the enclosed body not being ready when the car arrived at Olympia, though it may join it later” Also photo of chassis (Autosport 10.1.69)

Autosport 28 March 1969 News item
McLaren M6GT delivered to David Prophet ‘last week’. (see also further Prophet references below)

Autosport 28 March 1969 Silverstone International Trophy meeting (30 Mar) preview.
Entries in Group 4 race include “Denny Hulme in Tony Dean’s M6GT, Chris Craft in the Techspeed M6GT, David Prophet in his, and Sten Axelsen on the reserve list in his”, but notes that they may not appear because of homologation hold up. {and none of these cars ran}

Autosport 11 April 1969 News item
“The McLaren M6GT has still not been homologated into Group 4, which explains its absence from the BOAC 500 entry list. Most of the prospective customers have cancelled their orders and bought Lola T70 Mk3Bs, and McLaren are not pursuing the matter for the time being, due to the pressure of other commitments.”

John Woolfe was also reported to have cancelled his M6GT order & replaced it with a Lola. (Edited: a Lola, not an M6B as I originally wrote)

20 April 1969 David Prophet races his new McLaren-Chevrolet M6GT at Magny Cours, France (see also below)

Prophet converts his M6GT to CanAm M12 specification with open G7-type body (Autosport 18.9.69) (see also below)

Autosport 12 February 1970 News item.
“M6GT road car for Bruce!
“Bruce McLaren’s latest road car is no less a vehicle than a road trimmed version of the McLaren M6GT, which has been built up at Trojan Cars’ Croydon works ‘for evaluation purposes, as it is possible that Trojan may market a road version of the M6GT.’ Finished in glorious red, and complete with number plates and road fund disc, the M6GT runs a high performance but standard Chevrolet Camaro engine, which guarantees ‘adequate performance.’ The new car made its first appearance at a reception given by Howden Ganley’s F5000 McLaren M10B sponsor Barry Newman, which was patronised by Newman’s neighbour McLaren…..”

Motoring News 12 February 1970 News item
“Road M6GT for Bruce. Bruce McLaren now has the ultimate road smoker …. It is a McLaren M6GT like the one raced by David Prophet before he converted the chassis to open M12 form, but this one is softened up for the road. It has a thicker body, softer springs, cockpit trim and so on, with a fairly lightly tuned Chevrolet engine in the back. The machine is registered, taxed and insured for the road and at present Bruce is ‘just running it in.’ If the experiment proves to be a success, Trojan may produce further examples.”

Autosport 5 March 1970
Feature on “Trojan McLarens” by Justin Haler.
“Unfortunately the M6GT, despite seemingly meeting the FIA’s homologation requirements, was not homologated due to various intrigues, and only four examples were sold, of which only David Prophet’s appeared in races. However, Trojan have production road car plans for this model.”
“the possibility of an M6GT road car is quite on the cards, and indeed the prototype has been built and is currently being used by Bruce McLaren and Trojan for evaluation.” (plus photo).
{note: the wording used in these comments could be interpreted as 4 cars sold and Bruce’s road car being built}

Autosport 26 March 1970 News item
Photo caption “Bruce McLaren turned up at Brands Hatch last Friday in this Trojan-built, Chevrolet-engined, red M6GT McLaren coupe.” Reg OBH 500H

Autosport 2 April 1970 News item
Prophet sells his McLaren M6GT to Bill Bradley (see also below)

Speedshow, Walthamstow, 27 November 1970.
“Trojan were showing ….. the M6GT road car” “John Bennett, Production Director of Trojan, gave the 7-litre Chevrolet motor in the beautiful M6GT a little too much throttle and instantly he had spun…” (Autosport 3.12.70)

Motoring News 28 December 1972 News item
“McLarens road car goes home. The McLaren M6GT, built by Bruce Mclaren in 1969 with the hope that it might become a production road car is to go ‘home’ to New Zealand. The car, a modified version of the Gp 7 M6 sports car is to form part of an exhibition in an Auckland motoring museum as a tribute to its designer. The closed coupe was driven by Bruce McLaren on the road on several occasions but since his death it has been in storage. Now the car is being spruced up at Colnbrook before being transported back to New Zealand for the display at the Weston Springs Museum. The racing version of the car ran up against homologation difficulties and the M6 was eventually shelved although the prototype was raced by David Prophet on a couple of occasions. Only one car was ever trimmed for road use but it was McLaren’s hope that a production road car would eventually be built by his company. The M6GT is expected to leave for Auckland early next year.”

Motoring News 13 July 1972
Feature: Looking back over seven years of McLaren cars.
“1969 M6GT. After the success met by the Gp 7 M6, a project for 1969 included a road going version adapted as a closed coupe. Unfortunately the company ran up against homologation problems and the project was shelved, although Bruce was always very keen on building a road car and thought it could be made a feasible proposition. The prototype was raced once or twice by David Prophet, McLaren owned one trimmed out for road use and two others were constructed before the idea was put in cold storage.”



Prophet / Bradley M6GT/M12

The following references appear to show a continuous history of this car through 1969 &70. My original notes show that Bradley had the car 1970-72, so I must have originally found some mention of it in 1972, but as yet I’ve not tracked this down.

Autosport 28 March 1969 News item.
“Following their GT40 partnership last year, David Prophet and Richard Bond have teamed up again for the 1969 long-distance classics, this time with a McLaren M6GT, which was delivered into Prophet’s hands last week ready for Silverstone this weekend.”

Magny Cours, France 20 April 1969 Group 4/6/7
“David Prophet brought out his new McLaren-Chevrolet M6GT.” Retired. (Autosport 9.5.69)

Motoring News 26.6.69 news item
Photo caption “Rare bird. The only McLaren M6GT in captivity seen here practicing at Silverstone with owner David Prophet at the wheel. This is the car that was expected to shake Group 4 but had is homologation blocked.”

Autosport 27 June 1969 News item
Photo caption “David Prophet’s unique McLaren Chevrolet M6GT (the car that never got homologated into group 4) which the Midlander was testing at Silverstone last week. Prophet will be driving the car in the Norisring 200 miles on Sunday)”

Nuremberg 200, G4/6/7, Norisring, Germany 29 June 1969.
“David Prophet’s new 5-litre M6GT, with different wishbones after its handling problems at Magny Cours.” Retired heat 1, blown head gasket. (Autosport 4.7.69)

Photo caption “David Prophet in his M6GT ….. retired with head gasket trouble.2 (Motoring News 3.7.69)

Solitude-rennen, Hockenheim, Germany, 13 July 1969
“Richard Bond driving David Prophet’s Mk3 {Lola}.Prophet was in his McLaren M6GT” “Prophet continued to have misfortunes; his Lola broke a rod and after the end of practice the McLaren was found to have a cracked piston and broken timing chain” Race: “as the field disappeared on the rolling start lap a roar was heard from the paddock and Prophet charged onto the circuit in the McLaren GT, having cannibalised the Lola to get one car to the start.” “Prophet had completed one lap, but pitted with shortage of water and misfiring; then the car would not restart.” Retired. (Autosport 18.7.69)

Crystal Palace, Motoring News GT race, 2 August 1969
David Prophet McLaren M6GT – 1st (Autosport 8.8.69 – also photo)

Wunsdorf, Germany 16/17 August 1969
David Prophet’s McLaren M6GT crashed in Saturday race. “{Prophet} made the grid for the Sunday race, but had a nasty accident when its tail section blew off. Luckily neither car or driver was seriously hurt.” (Autosport 29.8.69).

Autosport 12 Sept 1969 News Item
Crystal Palace 13 Sept meeting preview. G4/6 race entry included “David Prophet in his new Can Am McLaren-Chevrolet M12”

Crystal Palace G4/6 13 Sept 1969
“…. David Prophet’s McLaren Chevrolet M12.” “Prophet had only just completed the conversion on his M6GT to bring it up to CanAm M12 specification with open G7-type body, and he had suffered engine problems throughout practice.” “Prophet retired the McLaren near the end after dropping oil throughout…” (Autosport 18.9.69)

G4/6 Trophy of the Dunes, Zandvoort, Holland, 27 Sept 1969
“David Prophet brought his M12-bodied M6 McLaren” Retired. (Autosport 2.10.69 – also appears in photo)

Motoring News GT race, Thruxton, 11 Sept 1969
“David Prophet non-started his Mclaren-Chevrolet M12 with no oil pressure.” (Autosport 16.10.69)

Hockenheim 300 miles G4/6 & G7, 19 Oct 1969.
“David Prophet brought his M6GT/M12 Mclaren.” Practice: “Prophet dropped a valve in the McLaren’s 5-litre Chevy engine; his spare unit was installed overnight.” Race: “Prophet’s engine stopped altogether around half-distance with faulty fuel-feed between the left-hand and right-hand tanks, which was cured by blocking the hole in the pressurised fuel cap with a bit of chewing gum, and the McLaren struggled on to finish 11th 14 laps behind the winner.” (Autosport 23.10.69)

Stuttgart Racing Car Show
“On show was David Prophet’s McLaren M6B/M12 less engine….” Photo caption “David Prophet’s Can Am type McLaren-Chevrolet M12 (which began life as the M6GT)” (Autosport 12.2.70)

Johnny Servoz-Gavin Paris Racing Car Show
Exhibits included David Prophet’s Mclaren M12. (Autosport 26.2.70)

Autosport 2 April 1970 News item
“{David} Prophet’s plans. … having sold his unique McLaren M6GT to Bill Bradley, who intends to fit a 7-litre Chevrolet motor.” “Prophet will share the driving of the McLaren in long-distance events.”

Autosport 9 April 1970 News item
“Bill Bradley, who is racing the ex-Prophet McLaren M6GT with 7-litre Chevrolet engine this year, has opened a repair and racing preparation company in Stuttgart. In charge will be his former chief mechanic Paddy O’Grady.”

Nuremburg 200 miles, Interserie, Norisring, 28 June 1970
“…the Bill Bradley ex-Prophet M12, running a small 5-litre lucas-injected Bartz Chevvy…. Prophet found himself in his old car again after ….. its intended driver Dieter Spoerry was not well enough to drive after his Le Mans shunt. The car had just returned from a complete rebuild at Trojan’s…” Retired – broken rocker (Autosport 2 July 1970).

Hockenheim Interserie, 5 July 1970
“David Prophet was once more in Bill Bradley’s M12 in place of Dieter Spoerry.” Result: 16th (Autosport 9. 7.70)

Croft Interserie, 11 July 1970
“Prophet was in Bill Bradley’s M12 – the car he sold to Bradley and which Dieter Spoerry will campaign in M6GT form* next year. This was powered by an ex-South African FA (5-litre) fuel-injected Bartz.” Result: 4th (Autosport 16.7.70) {*note: was this comment accurate, or was the reporter garbling the fact that previously it had been in M6GT form?}

Magny Cours, France, G5/6/7 14 July 1970
“David Prophet was in Bill Bradley’s 5-litre McLaren M12 again.” Part 1 – 3rd, Part 2 - 2nd; Aggregate – 2nd. (Autosport 23 July 1970)

Diepholz, Germany, 19/20 July 1970
“David Prophet was second …. with Bill Bradley’s 5-litre Mclaren M12 . This weekend Peter Westbury will be driving the Bradley McLaren at the Wunsdorf airfield circuit G5/6/7 race in Germany..” (Autosport 13.8.70).

Wunsdorf, Germany G5/6/7, 16 august 1970
Not mentioned in Autosport report (20 Aug 1970)

Keimola Interserie, Finland 23 August 1970
“Leo Kinnunen was put in Bill Bradley’s Mclaren M12.” Result – 8th (Autosport 27 Aug 1970)

Phoenix Park G5/6/7 13 Sept 1970
“… entry headed by Bill Bradley in the 5-litre Mclaren-Chevrolet M12; but …. had engine blow-up and failed to appear. (Autosport 17.9.70)

Autosport 17 Sept 1970 News item
Entries for Zandvoort 20.9.1970 . “Peter Westbury was scheduled to drive the Bill Bradley CanAm McLaren M12 but is an unlikely starter as the car is almost certainly sold.”

Thruxton Interserie, 20 Sept 1970
“Bill Bradley’s M12 McLaren with its 5-litre fuel-injected Bartz for David Prophet…” Result: 8th (Autosport 24.9.70)

Hockenheim Interserie, 11 Oct 1970
“The Bill Bradley Racing 5-litre Bartz-engined McLaren M12 for David Prophet.” “Retired, broken valve & no clutch) (Autosport 22.10.70)

Nurburgring South Circuit G5/6/7, 18 Oct 1970
“David Prophet in Bill Bradley’s McLaren M12 with Bartz engine.” Heat 1 – 3rd. Heat 2 – “Prophet’s engine exploded, sending everything out through the side of the block.” (Autosport 22.10.70)

#12 Pete Stowe

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 17:07

Knew I must have seen something somewhere in 1972:

Autosport classifieds 20 January 1972 (with photo).
“McLaren M12 CanAm with Hewland LG600 gearbox; easily converts to GT Specification with coupe body. For sale less engine. Offers to Bill Bradley, Solihull, Warwickshire.”

#13 Duncan Fox

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 20:45

Pete, thats great stuff, it certainly dates it in G.B. early March 72, the other noticable thing is it did a fair bit of racing in various formats . The tub today doesnt show that. It is almost like new (but original) Now I have to fill in that 3 month gap to May, and either make the connection to the Fournier delivery, or look for the 4th car.

#14 Pete Stowe

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Posted 07 June 2006 - 21:04

Duncan, are you sure the Fournier car was delivered in 1972? I didn't spot an original reference in my recent scan of Autosports, but my original notes have it as 1971 - and as my pre-1972 entries were typed, & 1972 onwards added by hand, I'm sure I must have originally noted that one before 1972.

#15 Ted Walker

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 18:46

The Phil Scragg car has been owned for many years by George Tatham who brings it to Shelsley Walsh once a year or so.

#16 Doug Nye

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 20:41

M6Bs are also mentioned in the heading to this thread - Rosso Bianco had a gold pin-striped dark blue M6B - exquisitely presented - which had plainly been finished after the Penske Donohue car. Its chassis plate read simply '50/30'.

DCN

#17 Duncan Fox

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 20:42

Pete, I got the delivery date from a Jim Mollet article.He stated that it was flown to Montreal by a B.O.A.C cargo flight in May 72. I have since absorbed all your input and compaired photos etc with the chassis as it sits today, and have come to the conclusion that the Olympia car was the Prophet chassis. It was this same article that stated the Prophet cars unknown whereabouts. So it would appear early on in the piece that even Mr Fournier was unaware of his cars history!

I spoke with Phil Kerr and he confirms that the car he understood to have been the Prophet/Bradley car went to Canada.McLarens had nothing to do with the deal. Has anybody seen or heard of Bill Bradley of late? He could no doubt fill in the details just proir to the sale. So it now appears pretty safe to say there were only 3 G.Ts.

Ted, Do you have a current photo of the Scragg car?

#18 Duncan Fox

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 21:03

Hi Doug , yes I had seen a photo also of that car, but drew a blank as to it history. We here at Group 7 rebuilt the tub from the original car recently, so one thing I know is its not 6A-3. There were several cars assembled wth nos in the high 20's in the U.S. out of period ,as it doesnt fit any of the lists I know of , it has to be suspect. Although I would wonder why the Collection would have purchased it?


Pete , in your notes you posted there was reference to the Bradley car not appearing at Zandvoort 20/9/70 as the car was almost certainly sold. I know Fournier tried to buy a G. T. on several occasions , this could have been one of them.

#19 David Pozzi

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 06:23

Chassis #50-17 sold at the RM auction.
Click this link, then scroll to item #188 and click again.
http://www.rmauction...?SaleCode=AZ06#

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#20 Ted Walker

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 07:30

Duncan E Mail me re photos. I have shots of it with all 3 of its owners from new

#21 Pete Stowe

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 07:32

It’s still bugging me that I can’t find the 1971 reference to Fournier acquiring a road M6GT; I’ve checked through Motoring News again & can’t find anything, so it must have been in some other magazine that I’ve long since thrown out. However, maybe it was reportage of one of Fournier’s attempts to purchase one, which later fell through.

I did find one other M6GT ‘sighting’:
Motoring News 13 May 1971 News item.
Auto Expo 71 at Monaco.
“Making its first public appearance at Auto Expo will be a McLaren M6GT. This was Bruce McLaren’s favourite project before his death a year ago. He had decided to devote himself to producing a road-going McLaren and the GT was a ‘civilised version of the M6 CanAm car which the FIA refused to homologate into Gp4 in 1969. Although Bruce’s co-directors decided to abandon development of the GT after his death, the project has now been taken up by Trojan Ltd, who will test market the car at Auto Expo.”

Is it known if the car shown by Trojan at Walthamstow Nov 1970 &/or Monaco 1971 was Bruce’s original, or GT1969E?

#22 Pete Stowe

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 14:27

Originally posted by Duncan Fox
Another English chassis mingles with this story. John Woolfs M6B, again a late delivery I have photos of it at its first race at Silverstone April 14 where he spun off. I think it had a B/B Chev in it .Was this correct? Did he race it again after this before his untimely death at LeMans?. I need to date a photo of the Trojan Works as the Woolf car appears in this shot with prototype coupe rear bodywork ,but with a small block chev. I would like to clarify this cars history also , as John Woolf Racing advise me that this is the car that Dave Finnagin has , which is what I understood, but there is a 2nd claimant for this no (50-16) in G.B.

Silverstone Sunday 13 April 1969 would seem to be the only 1969 appearance of this car, Woolfe winning the 20 lap Motoring News Special GT race in his “CanAm 5.0 McLaren Chevrolet M6B." Later he spun off while leading the 10 lap Formula Libre race & retired with suspension damage. (Autosport & Motoring News reports).
Autosport 18 April 1969 News item: “At last Sunday’s Silverstone meeting, Woolfe was running the prototype Woolferace-tuned Chevrolet V8 in his CanAm McLaren M6B, and JWR hope to be producing these units for sale in the near future.”

Meeting previews show that he also entered it at Thruxton (16 March 1969), Silverstone (26 April 1969), Brands Hatch (27 April 1969), & Snetterton (4 May 1969), but it did not appear at any of them.

The first appearance of this car was on 15 September 1968 in the Preis von Nationen, Hockenheimring:
“Frank Gardner in the brand-new John Woolfe Racing McLaren M6B with 5-litre Bartz Chevrolet downdraught fuel-injection motor.” Photo caption: “After working up to fourth place he retired with low oil pressure.” Autosport 20.9.68.

#23 bradbury west

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 09:11

Coys have an M6B GTR listed for their next sale


http://www.coys.co.u...ion=50&id=39166


RL

#24 harryglorydays

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 17:12

I didn't see anywhere above where this was mentioned, but a few years ago I visited the Giles Villeneuve museum outside Montreal and there was an M6 GT in their collection. I don't remember what (if anything) was said about why it was there and can give you no info on chassis number. I do believe it was painted in McLaren orange. Also don't know if it is still there or not.

#25 Duncan Fox

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Posted 15 June 2006 - 20:59

harry.... that would be the car we are talking about


brad.... I read the text; yet another chassis discovered in period and subsequently given a continuation serial no, why not the original??? Looks like a well built car.


Pete.... that John Woolf stuff was handy , its an interesting time line I'm now studying, things were moving around very quickly,at both the McLaren and Trojan Works. Im narrowing down my photograph date. You have a sequence of G.T. shots that you left a copy of with Jan at the Trust. In the background is our M10-A prototype. As the engine appears to be out of it, I have to think that this was after the Goodwood testing late Feb, but before the 1st race at Oulton Park 4.4.69 , as Peter Gethin states the car was ready a bare week before, after testing with the new fuel injection setup, and with the G.T. being delivered mid March I seem to have about a 2 wk window left. Those proof shots wouldnt have a date on the back would they??

#26 Pete Stowe

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 04:37

Originally posted by Duncan Fox
Pete.... You have a sequence of G.T. shots that you left a copy of with Jan at the Trust.

Those proof shots wouldnt have a date on the back would they??

:confused: :confused: Not mine, Duncan. I only gave Jan the scrapbooks.

#27 Ted Walker

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 07:37

Was Ian Richardsons "Corvair" Super saloon based on the J Woolfe M6B ????

#28 Duncan Fox

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 22:32

Ted.... I met Dave Finnigan in the U.K.several years back and saw the Woolfe car, albiet in pieces. My recollection is that he had been involved with the car for a long time dating back to the early 70's. I dont recall him mentioning it running as anything other than a group7 or Libre car. What made you think that it might have? There is a 2nd claimant for this car in the U.K. did it split? I will need to talk to Dave again.


Pete .... that was a surprise!! They were with your notes, and I just presumed they were part of them . I will see if Jan can recall their origin.

#29 Ted Walker

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 05:58

Duncan. I spoke with Ian Richardson last year but have lost his phone No.When I find it I will ask him.

#30 Duncan Fox

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 21:32

Ted ,is Ian an ex McLaren guy? Is he the same gent who lives in Wales and develops cylinder heads for Rover V8's ?

#31 Ted Walker

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 16:52

Yes Duncan one in the same.

#32 janeprophet

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:13

Hi. I am David Prophet's daughter, Jane. Please forgive any netiquette mess ups as I am new to this forum. I have recently been making a website about my Dad and have put some pages up with images of his M6GT. I'd very much appreciate it if you'd take a look and help me correct any error. The url is
http://www.janeproph...m/davidprophet/
and
http://www.janeproph...clarenM6GT.html

Thanks, Jane

#33 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:23

Jane lovely to have you here. Many of us saw your Dad race, I personally have great memories of his F5000 M10B McLaren.

#34 janeprophet

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:40

Hi Andrew. We haven't put the F5000 images online yet, but maybe I'll do that section next. There are quite a lot of images as that was one of his last cars. Thanks for the reply,

Jane

#35 bobLee

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 21:27

Duncan,

While at Goodwood I was pitted next to the March 817. The Crew Chief for the March, Martin Middleton, was David Prophets and Bradley's Crew Chief on the M6B. I had an interesting discussion with him about the Prophet M6B and I believe Martin can answer a lot of questions about the car. I have emailed Martin links to the two threads on this board.

Hello to the Board this is Bob Lee the guy that putted around in the Ex Bonnier #9 M6B at Goodwood--sorry I missed the TNF members at Goodwood would have liked to show you the resto. I have some more photos of Goodwood and will post them soon.

#36 CRX Lee

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 02:41

Originally posted by David Pozzi
Chassis #50-17 sold at the RM auction.
Click this link, then scroll to item #188 and click again.
http://www.rmauction...?SaleCode=AZ06#


I was at the RM Auction this Spring walking around the night before the auction looking at the nice cars. Lots of beutiful machiniery like a C-Jag, Ferrari spyders and barchettas, more Cobras than you could shake a stick at, a James Bond Aston Martin, etc. Of course I was looking at the Specials like a Kellison, etc. On my way out the door, tucked in the back corner behind the stage and out of the view of most people was the orange M6GT. I nearly wet myself. What a beautiful car that I had not known anything about.

In a room of nice cars with prices many times higher, this was the machine that made my heart pound and it looked so right to me. I was glad to see a nice era set of Koni 8212 dampers on the car. The cellasto bump rubbers had decayed and crumbled from UV exposure and they had the rear right height of the car sitting too low for the shocks but it was the real McCoy. I thought if I ever found out who the buyer was, I'd happily send him a set of new Koni bump stops for it. If anyone had a clue where the car has gone, I'd gladly send some fresh parts to the new owner.

Nice car. Good for the soul.

#37 Duncan Fox

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 20:38

Ted Walker Was Ian Richardsons "Corvair" Super saloon based on the J Woolfe M6B ????



Ted , Ive had a very nice email from Ian , and thought you may be interested,I have taken the relevant portions out we can now attempt to track that chassis no. I will ask Ian if he remembers it..


"I was actually involved with JW Automotive on the GT40 programme which, at that time, along with McLaren, were sponsored by Gulf oils. The only M6 at the time was owned by John Woolfe and later John Jordan at which time we were looking after this car.
My group 7 car was one of the last M3B's (M1C) which sadly, I am unable to locate as my car ran a Holman & Moody Ford weslake 6.4lr engine. I campaigned this car in interserie Europe whilst my great friend Denny Hulme was cleaning up Canam"

#38 tommy tucker

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 13:39

Sorry to revive this thread but I wonder if anyone knows what transaxle David Prophet's M6GT raced with? All the documentary evidence points to a LG600 but I would like to know for sure.
Thanks.
Tom.

#39 RS2000

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 15:30

Is the earlier quote that the road car was red correct? The only photo I can recall was on the driveway of their Burwood Park house (just south of Walton on Thames railway station) and in black and white it looked orange (if that isn't a too convoluted comment...)

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#40 hipperson

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 19:43

http://www.coys.co.u...ion=54&id=41778

#41 TomSB

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 18:07

Great Thread....I am one of the previous owners(before Peter Kause) of the McLaren M12GT/Coupe that was in the Rosso Bianco Collection. Yes the car was a M12 when it started its life in the 1969 CanAm Series with George Eaton racing it in 1969. The car took 4th place over all that year which was almost like taking 2nd since back then only Bruce and Denny usually took 1st & 2nd...when the CanAm series was also known as the Bruce and Denny Show. After 1969 the car was sold when George moved from a privateer and started driving a team BRM in the 1970 CanAm.

Not sure when, but the M12 had been raced for sometime after George sold it and was crashed in the late 70's early 80's somewhere in Canada leaving the track at somewhere north of 150-160mph and hit an embankment. The car was damaged but repairable. The car was to be restored by the owner previous to me, but he ran out of time and money and the car sat for quite some time in pieces.

Very interesting was the fact that there were parts on the car such as the magnesium uprights and wheels (as I recall) on all corners with M6BGT or M6GT cast directly into the part. My recollection is and this came from George Eaton personally who was told by Trojan, that the M6BGT was to be homologated for LeMans which required building 50 cars. The parts were being made and the project was cancelled or put on hold...the parts that had already been made were used to build M12's/roadsters which were Trojan "Customer Cars", to be raced in various series throughout the world.(I forget how many M12's were built, but less than 20).

When I purchased the car I was in college and purchased it with a fellow college buddy and neighbor as a fun project. At that time most of the cars were considered unimportant...so if you changed the body no one cared. Since the car had been crashed and the body was toast it was decided to build a coupe that might one day be licensed to drive on the street in California. The roadster and coupe bodies came with a center section, tail and nose. It was actually quite easy to change from the roadster to the coupe and back.

We had the car for roughly four or five years, it was shown and vintage raced at Laguna Seca and Riverside numerous times and was quite fast. The proof was passing on the back straight at Riverside, one of Vasek Polak's 917/10's at Riverside, driven by none other than George Folmer. Dick Smith the driver (FIA Champion and class record holder at Daytona for fastest straightaway speed at 198mph) of Cobra SC427 fame, had also raced a M12 in the CanAm and helped sort the car after the complete restoration of the monocoque chassis and the rest of the car and was driving that day at Riverside. With a paltry Chevy small block in endurance form with Webers, Dick said the car would accelerate as fast in 4th and 5th gear as it did in 2nd and 3rd (not what he was expecting). It was also an amazing handling car and would easily reach 180-190+ on the back straight at Riverside on the short track...who knows how fast the car would have been with different gearing on the long track at Riverside, but my guess is easily 210+. It was an extremely slippery design.

By the way one of the posters on this forum mentioned a serial number of the car which I'm not sure is accurate from recollection. Interesting story on that subject, when I was trying to confirm the Eaton connection on the car, I called Trojan to confirm serial numbers...I was told by Peter Agg of Trojan, that he would not give me the serial number, but would confirm what I had. He said that America had become the "Home of the McLaren Fake". He mentioned that two owners of McLaren M8F's were trying to figure out who had the original, and at last count throughout the world they had counted four or five more M8F's than had originally been made at the factory.

I personally have seen either finished or in the middle of construction three replica's coupe being build over the years as well as two M10 suspensioned GT's that were built from M10 parts using the engine as a load bearing member as had been done on the M8's. I can also attest to a M12 Coupe that was built using an original chassis with a BB Chevy during the mid to late 80's. Not sure where all these cars ended up. I know there are are a few fabricators such as John Collins who could build a chassis that was so close to looking original that you could only tell the car was an original because the aluminum monocoque was made of a slightly different quality aluminum and had aged. Also it is tough to duplicate the rivets that held the panels to the steel bulkheads.

It was an amazing project and something I will never forget...especially some of the "holly crap" moments on the track behind the wheel. My hats off to the guys that drove these beasts in the CanAm....not sure that anything else compares.

#42 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 18:01

Originally posted by RS2000
Is the earlier quote that the road car was red correct? The only photo I can recall was on the driveway of their Burwood Park house (just south of Walton on Thames railway station) and in black and white it looked orange (if that isn't a too convoluted comment...)


No, the car was red.

I can clearly remember my dad, who was works manager at McLaren, coming home the evening the car was finished and Bruce was due to drive it home to Walton. We lived about 5 minutes from the factory, on Bruce's way home, so my dad left a few minutes before Bruce and picked me up so that we could drive to the top of the road to watch him come past. As you can imagine, it was quite something to see a road going CanAm car on Middlesex backroads.

After Bruce was killed the car was parked down at the original Colnbrook factory, 5 David Road, for quite a while. The team had moved to 17 David Road in the meantime.

To my mind, I'm afraid there's only one "real" M6GT, and that was Bruce's car. It was the only one worked on in Colnbrook, as far as I recall.

Thanks

Nigel

#43 TomSB

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 19:01

Nigel, I would agree that Bruce's personal GT was red...I've seen a few pictures. As a past owner of a McLaren M12 GT (yes, not a factory original GT, but Eaton's original roadster with a body swap)...the GT was a stunning car and something that got so much attention it was amazing. I was a bit young (8 yrs old) when McLaren was putting down every challenger from 67 to 71-72 (except the Porsche factory effort) but if I could turn back time I would have wanted to relive that period of time. You having direct access to the team was something that a handfull of people can relate to or every hope for....you must have amazing memories. I can imagine your enthusiasm to watch Bruce drive his latest experiment/development past you on the road, heck as an adult now I'd be jumping up and down to see that. I get goose bumps thinking about it.

I drove my McLaren a few times on the roads here in Southern California and it was just amazing. I remember driving it to a car show one morning very early with an open stretch of road and no traffic to speak of...a Lotus Esprit came up along side at a red light and we were both in front. The McLaren had a baffled set of pipes on it that we had to have to run at Laguna Seca to meet the sound ordinances so it wasn't that brutal. Of course the Lotus owner wanted to see how fast he was because he thought he was the big dog...he left the light as hard as he could...I gently pressed the accelerator pedal to keep up...after 5-8 seconds I looked over and smiled at him as I hammered the throttle. I clicked a few gears and pulled my foot out of it...the Lotus was at least 10 car lengths behind by then. Later at the show the Lotus owner came up to me and said HOLY CRAP what kind of car is this.

The sad part is nothing will ever compare to that car again.

#44 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 19:10

Yes, it was gorgeous. It was really sad to see it sat down at no.5 gathering dust, with flat tyres, for some considerable time.

#45 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 20:54

According to McLAren by Eoin Young, the prototype M6GT was sold to David Prophet, who raced it, and one was for Bruce McLaren, one went to the USA and one ws built by Trojan for display purpses. The book also refers to an M12GT that had been built up in the USA.

There is also one on the road in Prince George, BC, Canada, where I live!



Posted Image

Posted Image

As I understand the story, there were a number of body shells )may be 50) and the body is one of them. The chassis frame was built by a firm in the USA who received written permission from the McLaren family. The owner fabricated the front and rear suspension, and installed a 454 Chevrolet motor. I can't remember but I think that it has a Prosche transaxle,

#46 RA Historian

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 16:39

A fellow named Paul Canary raced a McLaren coupe in the Road America 500 around 1981 or so. I understand that it was based on the Jim Hall M12 that John Surtees drove occasionally in 1969. Fortunately, it later was restored to the condition it was in when Hall owned it.
Tom

#47 Jean L

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 17:22

Here the Paul Canary car at Le Mans in 1981:
http://www.autodiva....c.php?f=2&t=624

#48 fbarrett

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 23:19

Friends:

See also http://www.mathewsco...ion_mclaren.htm

Frank

#49 mark parnham

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 05:14

i wonder if any one could tell me if harold drinkwater is still around on planet earth. If he is, does any one know how to contact him. Any info would be very much appreciative.

#50 hansfohr

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:42

i wonder if any one could tell me if harold drinkwater is still around on planet earth. If he is, does any one know how to contact him. Any info would be very much appreciative.

Last year Mr. Dan Vargus acquired the original M12-60-10 tub from Harold Drinkwater. Vargus tracked him down in Drain, Douglas, Oregon. That info was submitted to http://wsrp.ic.cz :)