84 replies to this topic

[MKIVJ6]

Does BMRGT1 still exist?

Is it for sale?

Best

[David McKinney]

I believe it's in the Mathews Collection - don't know if it's for sale. Their cars sometimes are

[RA Historian]

I believe it's in the Mathews Collection - don't know if it's for sale. Their cars sometimes are

www.mathewscollection.com

[MKIVJ6]

www.mathewscollection.com

Thanks.

http://www.mathewsco...cLaren_M6GT.htm

[Bruce302]

Bruce's personal M6GT is now here, sale pending.

Here

[kayemod]

Bruce's personal M6GT is now here, sale pending.

Here

A huge buying incentive for anyone in the UK, that car is tax exempt.

[Giraffe]

These are all pics of Martin Bolesover's M6B GT as it appeared at Cholmondeley last summer. The commentator said it had been a road car converted to a race car and then back again.


By giraffe138, shot with DSC-W215 at 2009-07-21

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-21

By giraffe138 at 2009-07-21

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-07-19


By giraffe138, shot with DSC-W215 at 2009-07-19
It differs from the original road car in that the gearshift is to the right of the driver which makes me suspect it to be a converted M12 or similar.

And here is Bruce's car pictured "1000 years ago" at Brands Hatch by Barry Boor.....


By giraffe138 at 2010-03-06

Edited by Giraffe, 06 March 2010 - 19:18.

[kayemod]

It differs from the original road car in that the gearshift is to the right of the driver which makes me suspect it to be a converted M12 or similar.

I think you're right. It's pretty much proved by the right hand gear shift, but the original Bruce McLaren GT, and almost certainly the three Trojan-built replicas, all had pop-up headlights, not fixed like this example. Nice car all the same.

[RS250]

Can any TNF folk help me with some answers to several questions I have pertaining to the movements and uses of several M6 and M12 Mclaren chassis . Published info of the day contradicts itself some say 4 were built others 3. Id like to get to the bottom of this once and for all.
Firstly, David Proffit used what was generally accepted as the prototype, in several races as a coupe. It was then shown at a German show in spyder form with M12 bodywork. Was this the same car? And does anyone know what happened to it after the show?I recall reading somewhere it had been crashed and rebuilt ,but when? He is shown in Trojan records as having ordered an M6B in early? 69 but this order is shown as cancelled and Oscar Kovelski appears to have taken the order over, as this is certainly the same serial#(50-17) as his was .The confusing part is that one of the surviving coupes today bears that same number albeit with a GT suffix. It is however not an M6 tub but a virgin original M12 type with all the correct fuelbag battery cavity/ diaphrams in place. This car was delivered to the customer in May 72. Many people say this is the same car as Proffits .I’m not so sure.

The M6GT chassis that appeared at the London Racing car show on the McLaren stand alongside Dennys M8A and the prototype Formula A car, ; Which car did that become? It wasn’t Bruces so did it become the car that went to the US as a sales model and wound up with Ted Peterson? At this point I have mentioned all 3 currently known coupes.But was it 4????

Another English chassis mingles with this story. John Woolfs M6B, again a late delivery I have photos of it at its first race at Silverstone April 14 where he spun off. I think it had a B/B Chev in it .Was this correct? Did he race it again after this before his untimely death at LeMans?. I need to date a photo of the Trojan Works as the Woolf car appears in this shot with prototype coupe rear bodywork ,but with a small block chev. I would like to clarify this cars history also , as John Woolf Racing advise me that this is the car that Dave Finnagin has , which is what I understood, but there is a 2nd claimant for this no (50-16) in G.B.

Any histories on British chassis would be appreciated. Whose was the Malcome Clube car? Where did the Scraggs car go? And which car is the 2nd claimant for 50-16 ?. Thanks Guys in advance.

I know its been a while since anybody posted here but some information has recently come to light in respect of these cars.
Charlie Agg is currently advertising a load of Trojan memorabilia including Factory Build Records. In the MotorSport mag. ad. he has listed numbers of cars produced in their respective years, which in 1968 shows 'M6GT road spec (only one built!)' and in 1969 the ad. shows M12 GT road spec. (only one built!).
Assuming Bruces personal road car was built by McLaren this would suggest that there were only ever a total of three cars produced by McLaren and Trojan collectively.

[arttidesco]

The book also refers to an M12GT that had been built up in the USA.

 

 

There were at least two McLaren M12 GT's built up in the States with Can Am credentials :-

 

The Chaparral 60-05 became the unsuccessful Paul Canary '81 Le Mans entry mentioned else where in this thread 

 

 

Pete Sherman's 60-14 raced at Road America in '72 and possibly by Gary Wilson in 1971 became the M12GT that graced Goodwood this year above.

 

60-14 is shown on this website to have been owned by "Lawrence Crossan" in 1977 and "onverted to a coupé by Larry Crossen".

 

I am guessing Lawrence and Larry are actually the same, but is there any chance anyone here could give me the correct spelling of Lawrence/Larry's surname ?

[group7]

I thought I'd chime in here. the andre fournier  M12 GT ? was covered in an article in the motor june 16th 1973. titled mcLaren muscle in montreal. the article was reprinted in the brook lands book "can-am racing cars 1966-1974" the article refers to it as a M12 chassis #50-04. it further says that a set of M6GT coachwork was shortened & widened to fit the M12 chassis.

 

I also have some photos of red M6GT body work on a unknown chassis, the tub looks M12, but the car has lola type wheels, that I took at a ferrari club meet at mosport in july 1984.

 

also have photos taken at the vintage races at watkins glen september 1990, of what I noted as being a McLaren M6GT, this car was McLaren orange.  denis hulme was at this event, I have a photo of him discussing this car with whom I believe to be the owner. there was a rather heated dialogue about the provenance of said vehicle. I remember the bear saying something along the lines of "when were all gone, there will be no one left to validate the authenticity of these cars"

 

I am not able to include photos with my post. but can scan said article, and photos and send to someone who would be willing  to post them for me.

hope this is of some interest, and not muddying the waters !  note:  I have corrected date of vintage at watkins glen.

 

mike in canada

Edited by group7, 25 September 2014 - 02:11.

[arttidesco]

I am not able to include photos with my post. but can scan said article, and photos and send to someone who would be willing  to post them for me.

 

hope this is of some interest, and not muddying the waters !

 

mike in canada

 

See your inbox

[arttidesco]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also have some photos of red M6GT body work on a unknown chassis, the tub looks M12, but the car has lola type wheels, that I took at a ferrari club meet at mosport in july 1984.

 

 

 

 

 

I also have photos taken at the vintage races at watkins glen september 1990, of what I noted as being a McLaren M6GT, this car was McLaren orange.  denis hulme was at this event, I have a photo of him discussing this car with whom I believe to be the owner. there was a rather heated dialogue about the provenance of said vehicle. I remember the bear saying something along the lines of "when were all gone, there will be no one left to validate the authenticity of these cars"

 

 

hope this is of some interest, and not muddying the waters !  note:  I have corrected date of vintage at watkins glen.

 

mike in canada

 

Photo's added on Mike's behalf.

Edited by arttidesco, 26 September 2014 - 01:54.

[group7]

arttidesco, just wanted to thank you for taking the time to post those images for me.

 

mike/group7

[63Corvette]

I (vintage) raced against the McLaren M6GT coupe at the St Louis Vintage races in East St Louis Illinois (drag strip) in August of 1985. I have pictures if anyone is interested!!

[Supersox]

Last time I saw it 50-17 was sitting in a collection in Arizona, now fitted with Webers.

[Duc-Man]

This topic resurfacing reminds me on two things:

 

a) Coys sold a M6GT at the Nürburgring auction 2013. http://www.classicdr.../m6/1968/186134

 

b) the M6 spyder Wido Rössler used to race in the Supersports Cup was turned into a GT around 2010/11.

 

 

The car had the name Peter Schleifer on it at the time.

[kayemod]

Is this car genuine? McLaren only ever built a single prototype, and Trojan made three copies. The auction link tells us that original cars had "7 litre Chev engines", but the only original cars I know of had 5740cc Chev LT1s. Wild stories abound, especially on US sites, of "spare M6GT bodies" being built up into runners, but take it from me, there never were any spare bodies made when the original cars were built. One or two may have been made subsequently by a company run by ex-Specialised Mouldings employees, but stories I've seen of 25 unused bodies "found" are completely without substance. Maybe it's like Lister Jaguars, with many more "genuine" cars around than were ever made by Brian Lister.

 

Edit. Apart from the pics of Bruce's original car, the only one ever built by McLaren, all the others on this thread have what looks like an M12 front shell, not the proper M6GT one. I've long suspected that someone somewhere has turned out pirated M6GT centre and tail mouldings, we knew that at least two moulders were making unauthorised McLaren body parts to keep US racers supplied, with the cost of airfreight from England it's easy to see why, but it would have been polite to at least ask for permission from the copyright holders, and no-one ever did. The original McLaren-built car was pretty raw & unfinished for a road car, so it's quite possible that some copyists actually improved on Bruce's prototype, his early death in 1970 meant that the basic car was never developed, you had to stop the car, get out and go round to the front to raise the lights manually, customers would have wanted something a bit more sophisticated and user-friendly than that.

Edited by kayemod, 16 March 2015 - 13:23.

[Duc-Man]

I have no idea about the background of that italian M6GT. I was hoping somebody here could shine some light on it.

 

About the M6B > GT conversion I posted the photos of: I might be able to tell you more about the origins of the bodywork after Hockenheim next month. They make no secret out of the fact that it is a conversion.

[63Corvette]

Can any TNF folk help me with some answers to several questions I have pertaining to the movements and uses of several M6 and M12 Mclaren chassis . Published info of the day contradicts itself some say 4 were built others 3. Id like to get to the bottom of this once and for all.
Firstly, David Proffit used what was generally accepted as the prototype, in several races as a coupe. It was then shown at a German show in spyder form with M12 bodywork. Was this the same car? And does anyone know what happened to it after the show?I recall reading somewhere it had been crashed and rebuilt ,but when? He is shown in Trojan records as having ordered an M6B in early? 69 but this order is shown as cancelled and Oscar Kovelski appears to have taken the order over, as this is certainly the same serial#(50-17) as his was .The confusing part is that one of the surviving coupes today bears that same number albeit with a GT suffix. It is however not an M6 tub but a virgin original M12 type with all the correct fuelbag battery cavity/ diaphrams in place. This car was delivered to the customer in May 72. Many people say this is the same car as Proffits .I’m not so sure.

The M6GT chassis that appeared at the London Racing car show on the McLaren stand alongside Dennys M8A and the prototype Formula A car, ; Which car did that become? It wasn’t Bruces so did it become the car that went to the US as a sales model and wound up with Ted Peterson? At this point I have mentioned all 3 currently known coupes.But was it 4????

Another English chassis mingles with this story. John Woolfs M6B, again a late delivery I have photos of it at its first race at Silverstone April 14 where he spun off. I think it had a B/B Chev in it .Was this correct? Did he race it again after this before his untimely death at LeMans?. I need to date a photo of the Trojan Works as the Woolf car appears in this shot with prototype coupe rear bodywork ,but with a small block chev. I would like to clarify this cars history also , as John Woolf Racing advise me that this is the car that Dave Finnagin has , which is what I understood, but there is a 2nd claimant for this no (50-16) in G.B.

Any histories on British chassis would be appreciated. Whose was the Malcome Clube car? Where did the Scraggs car go? And which car is the 2nd claimant for 50-16 ?. Thanks Guys in advance.

I vintage raced with a (real) one at the St Louis (east St Louis Ill) vintage races in August 1985. I have pictures but unfortunately I don't know, and can't remember sho the owner/driver was.

[Lee Nicolle]

Knowing little about these cars but a 350 Chev small block and 427 Chev big block basically bolt in the same place. All the accescories [pipes, injection etc] ofcourse do not interchange and a gearbox for a 350 might not like the torque of the big blocks. But same bellhousing and engine plates.

So these cars could raced with what ever suited the rules.

[Vintage1964]

Hello, 

I am new to the Forum, and looking for info over David Prophet's McLaren cars. There is one which I am interested in, for sale at Spa Classic in two weeks . See lot on http://www.bonhams.c.../22722/lot/126/. The description of the car and its history does not seem to match with what I read elsewhere. This however, does not mean that what is written elsewhere is the reality . 

Mr. Prophet seems to have indeed had several M6's if we take into account the amount of different cars with identical chassis numbers :>)) VIN 50-17 is a good example. Not only did he apparently have one ( or more ) GT's , but also one ( or more )  M6B's. As it was rather easy to convert a spider into a coupe and vice versa, it makes it quite confusing to identify which car is which, unless you can establish with period documents or witnesses, what happened to what car.  This is what I am trying to do. 

Thank you for your help .

[arttidesco]

According to this list chassis M6B 50-17 went to Oscar Koveleski and M6GT 50-17 went to David Prophet, where that leaves the Bonhams chassis 'M6GT 2 R' I am not sure but the 'R' might be a clue.

[bill p]

According to this list chassis M6B 50-17 went to Oscar Koveleski and M6GT 50-17 went to David Prophet, where that leaves the Bonhams chassis 'M6GT 2 R' I am not sure but the 'R' might be a clue.

Yes, the "R" does give rise to a few questions........

[Vintage1964]

On what base, when, and by who was the "list " established ? Trojan ? McLaren ? Journalist ? Factory ? Car dealer ( God forbids.... ) ?

What is the reliability of " the list " ? Can it be amended ?  Who decides ? Under what authority ? What credentials ?  

Questions ...  questions.... ( I'm new to this forum, remember ?  ! ) 

There is a beautiful and quick black M6B for sale in Germany. Chassis 50-30 . A real one or a " tribute " ? 

[TIPO61]

Bill Moir will make you one. Rivet for rivet.

Edited by TIPO61, 17 May 2015 - 21:41.

[Alan Cox]

From Sports Car Digest website, 21 July 2014:

That brings us to this car, M6B GT 50-17. One of the Trojan-built cars, it was on the stage at the London Auto Show in early 1969. Shortly after, and realizing that Group 4 racing was not in the cards for the M6, McLaren sold it directly to privateer racer David Prophet. A fairly well-known British driver who even had two F1 drives to his credit (driving Brabhams at the South African Grand Prix), Prophet had been looking for an M6 Roadster (an open M6 with the same chassis number of 17 was delivered to another privateer) but intrigued enough by the GT to give it a go. Prophet first raced the closed car with race #3 at Magny Cours in May, then again at the UK Crystal Palace Motoring News Championship in June of 1969, where he retired with head gasket problems. Prophet then sold it to Bill Bradley Racing for the 1970 season, but for the Interserie that year, he would still drive the McLaren in almost every race the team entered. Under Bill Bradley’s ownership, M6B GT 50-17 was modified to M12 specifications, which included revised front suspension and, most noticeably, a roadster body. After that brief run in the Interserie, in 1972 Bradley put the car up for sale with a Bartz-Chevrolet racing engine, Hewland LG600 gearbox and original coupe bodywork for $15,950, about $90,000 in 2014.

 

This looks suspiciously like the race-record detailed in Bonhams' description, so I'm not sure how this relates to chassis no 'M6GT 2 R'

Edited by Alan Cox, 15 May 2015 - 09:12.

[David Beard]

Seeing the McLaren M6 GT at the Goodwood Revival reminded me of my long held (if fanciful) belief that I might have given Bruce food for thought for such a vehicle. When the M1 appeared, Motoring News featured a cutaway drawing. As was my habit in those youthful days, I used this as a template for my idea of a coupe version of the car, produced a sketch, and posted it off to McLaren. Some weeks later I received this letter.

 

 

The spelling is perplexing. Perhaps dictated by Bruce to some sort of office junior?

 

Anyway, I don't have a copy of the sketch I sent, so I have no way of proving that I provided the germ of an idea. However, Doug Nye did tell me some years ago that he thinks he saw such a sketch when he retrieved various artifacts from a McLaren clear out.  He might even retain it somewhere. I live in hope that my sketch might someday resurface!

Edited by David Beard, 18 November 2015 - 18:28.

[group7]

This just came up on the "Remembering Le-Circuit" Facebook site , Andre Fournier's M6GT on test at Le Circuit, in Quebec. 

 

Michael

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=L7a5N1YmcgA

[Duc-Man]

M12 60-05 came up in a post on facebook and a bit of an argument about it.

Somebody commented that it wasn't seen anymore after it was crashed in a vintage race.

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere something about it a couple years ago that the car was rebuild into a M12 GT again as it was driven by Paul Canard. That was including some photos at some concours event. Possibly Amelia Island or Huntington Beach.

I hope somebody can confirm that and might have a link for me.

[FLB]

This just came up on the "Remembering Le-Circuit" Facebook site , Andre Fournier's M6GT on test at Le Circuit, in Quebec. 

 

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

The driver and narrator is Canadian auto journalist Jacques Duval,, the winning co-driver in the GT 2l category at the 1971 Daytona 24 Hours, one of the few wins in international racing for the Porsche 914/6:

 

https://www.racingsp...-Duval-CDN.html

 

 

Edited by FLB, 29 February 2020 - 18:23.

[arttidesco]

' one of the few wins in international racing for the Porsche 914/6:

 

https://www.racingsp...-Duval-CDN.html '

 

Apologies for the digression but your same reference source suggests 914/6s recorded 37 overall victories and 53 additional class victories from 585 events ;-)

[kartman24]

Anyone know the history behind the M6GT that was raced at last years Silverstone Classic, great to see that and the M6B at the sharp end of the grid...........

[Bikr7549]

HI,

In the early 70's Road and Track magazine did a 'road test' of an M6 Can Am car, maybe 1974 or so. If anyone has that issue and is willing to make a electronic copy of it for me I would very much appreciate it. That was one of my very first introductions to that type of car, and would really like to reread it. There was a Ford powered M6 that ran New England Region SCCA events for a few years right around that time frame, had Weslake heads on it, very impressive machine.

 

Thanks,

Bob

Edited by Bikr7549, 01 March 2020 - 19:48.

[Jerry Entin]

Mike: Your photo above with Denis Hulme in it also has Leonard and Bonnie and Harold Janke in it.

Leonard is from Pender , Nebraska and also raced in the CanAm in the day.

 

Here is a story on Leonard and Bonnie Janke.

https://forums.autos...-leonard-janke/

Edited by Jerry Entin, 04 March 2020 - 20:18.